Whats all the hubbub?

Frank Z · May 1st, 2007, 02:49 PM

PART 1
So after the spindle on my tire carrier sheared I decide it was time for a pivotal change to the carrier.

I started with a Dana44 hub from a 81 F-100.

Disassemble the same as you would any hub.

After I cut off and ground down the spindle and hub I figured out that the hub and spindle were going to be too darn tall. I cut them both down to a more manageable height.

I should also note that I welded the stub shaft to the spindle before welding the spindle to the bumper. Here's how it looks so far.

Frank Z · May 1st, 2007, 02:50 PM

Part 2

Assembly went fairly smooth and the hub works very well. The damn thing is huge though. Sorry for the dark pics.

All welded and painted. Purdy ain't it?

The hub does a great job of holding the carrier open even with the heep pointing down hill.

Was it worth the effort? Yeah, I think so.

I still need to tweak the hook portion of the latch since the carrier is slightly higher above the bumper now. I'll save that for this weekend.

Thanks for looking.

IoN6 · May 1st, 2007, 02:53 PM

Why did you weld the outter shaft in there too?

Sprnklrmn · May 1st, 2007, 02:54 PM

Nice thinking. Probably going to use the lockout dial as a way to lock the carrier in the open position? Also a convenient way to carry a spare lockout.

CSP · May 1st, 2007, 02:56 PM

To keep it from turning.

The lockout hub will be used to hold the tire carrier in an open/closed position this way.

Open the tire carrier, turn the lockout hub to 4x4 and the tire carrier stays open with no external pins etc.

Frank Z · May 1st, 2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprnklrmn

Nice thinking. Probably going to use the lockout dial as a way to lock the carrier in the open position? Also a convenient way to carry a spare lockout.

I wish I could take credit for the idea, but Murfman and Trango paved the way for this mod. Props to them both!

THE STRANGER · May 1st, 2007, 03:06 PM

Sweet!!!!!

IoN6 · May 1st, 2007, 03:11 PM

Ahhh, I see, I see says the blind man. Great thinking!

Trango · May 1st, 2007, 03:54 PM

Thanks. Flattered for the name cred! :blush:

CSP · May 1st, 2007, 03:55 PM

Not to take away from Trango or Murfman, but that trick has been around longer than the internet has.

People also use a similar setup to mount the spare on the carrier which provides extra parts for trail breakdowns.

410fortune · May 1st, 2007, 04:00 PM

nice trick no matter how long its been around, cant wait to see part 2

Trango · May 1st, 2007, 04:15 PM

CSP, not to split hairs, but I'm totally curious. Had you seen the shaft welded in as part of the assembly before? I thought I innovated on that, and I'd love to know if it had been done before.

I just love to see this sort of stuff, so thanks for posting. It looks really clean.

Frank Z · May 1st, 2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSP

Not to take away from Trango or Murfman, but that trick has been around longer than the internet has.

Okay, but those were the first ones I saw on the WWW, or anywhere for that matter. I didn't want to come across like I invented it.

If I have some spare time tomorrow afternoon or evening I'll try to get the rest of it done.

Colin · May 1st, 2007, 08:27 PM

Very cool

Frank Z · May 1st, 2007, 09:00 PM

Thanks.

Trango · May 2nd, 2007, 09:36 AM

Ok, so now you want to find a place on the setup where the lockout will hold the carrier closed when latched... you know, as a backup. Have you thought about this? Hopefully so. If not, read on.

You will have, honestly, um, an almost infinite number of placements to put the lockout on. Even though you think, man, there is no way the lockout will fit because the splines on each side are fixed. But, if you think about it, though, there HAS to be some way that will fit. For instance, there are, what, 19 splines on the outer? And then the lockout has 6 MEGA splines (corresponding with the 6 bolts holding the lockout together, from what I remember) on the inside to couple together when locked, and then the hub has like 35-ish splines on the inside. That leaves three surfaces to be clocked - it's sort of like a concentric combination lock. Clock things enough, and with the play inherent in the setup, you will get the spline engagement you need.

So, when the carrier is latched closed, you will likely have to try about 50 times to get the "locked" lockout to fit both welded shaft and hub, but you should be able to get it. That way, you can keep the lockout locked when the carrier is closed.

Unless, that is, you already thought about this and welded the spindle on in such a rotation as to eliminate this task.

Bob

CSP · May 2nd, 2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trango

CSP, not to split hairs, but I'm totally curious. Had you seen the shaft welded in as part of the assembly before? I thought I innovated on that, and I'd love to know if it had been done before.

Yep, a member of the Red Rocks Four Wheelers had this setup on his flattie in the mid-80s, when we used to attend Easter Jeep Safari.

He used it on the carrier spindle as well as mounting a spindle/stub/wheel bearing hub to the part of the carrier which the tire bolts to as well. He mentioned that originally he didn't have a stub axle and the tire would spin on the carrier all the time and it drove him crazy. That's what gave him the idea to weld the stub in to stop the spinning.

Still a cool idea no matter who came up with it and it's cool to see you and Frank and Murfman spread the word! I don't mean to take anything away from anybody.

Just as another example, people think the TFI upgrade of using a Ford large diameter distributor cap and rotor on AMC V8's and I6's is a relatively new thing, but it's documented in one of Moses Ludel's books going back into the late 80's/early 90's.

Frank Z · May 2nd, 2007, 09:47 AM

Actually I have thought about it. I'm going to lock the hub before positioning and tack welding the carrier to it.

Sound_Man · May 2nd, 2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trango

Ok, so now you want to find a place on the setup where the lockout will hold the carrier closed when latched... you know, as a backup. Have you thought about this? Hopefully so. If not, read on.

You will have, honestly, um, an almost infinite number of placements to put the lockout on. Even though you think, man, there is no way the lockout will fit because the splines on each side are fixed. But, if you think about it, though, there HAS to be some way that will fit. For instance, there are, what, 19 splines on the outer? And then the lockout has 6 MEGA splines (corresponding with the 6 bolts holding the lockout together, from what I remember) on the inside to couple together when locked, and then the hub has like 35-ish splines on the inside. That leaves three surfaces to be clocked - it's sort of like a concentric combination lock. Clock things enough, and with the play inherent in the setup, you will get the spline engagement you need.

So, when the carrier is latched closed, you will likely have to try about 50 times to get the "locked" lockout to fit both welded shaft and hub, but you should be able to get it. That way, you can keep the lockout locked when the carrier is closed.

Unless, that is, you already thought about this and welded the spindle on in such a rotation as to eliminate this task.

Bob

Can he lock the hub before he welds on the frame for the swing out to eliminate this problem? In other words, lock the hub assembly then tack on the carrier in the locked position, disassemble and weld it up.

Sound_Man · May 2nd, 2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Z

Actually I have thought about it. I'm going to lock the hub before positioning and tack welding the carrier to it.

Thats what I meant

Trango · May 2nd, 2007, 11:05 AM

Ok cool! I nearly went postal times 30 when I realized that I had to clock it.

Steve · May 2nd, 2007, 11:25 AM

The first time I saw that was on a rig I wheeled a couple of Moab trials with 5 or 6 years ago. Thought it was pure genius then, still do.

Frank Z · May 2nd, 2007, 09:25 PM

Part 2 is now available in Post #2 for your viewing pleasure and rude comments.

sonofmayhem · May 2nd, 2007, 09:31 PM

awesome work frank!

Frank Z · May 2nd, 2007, 09:35 PM

Thanks Adam!

Sound_Man · May 3rd, 2007, 06:55 AM

Looks good Frank! Nice work. Does the hub lock in the closed position?

Frank Z · May 3rd, 2007, 07:07 AM

Thanks Curt. Yes it does lock in the closed position.

Mark · May 3rd, 2007, 07:32 AM

Good tech Frank. How long before you get pulled over for obstructed taillight?

Any pics of how the stub was welded into the spindle? I'm having trouble picturing that in my mind.

Frank Z · May 3rd, 2007, 07:43 AM

No worries about the light, it's only partially obstructed.

No pics of the welded assembly, but maybe I can explain it a bit better. After cutting the yoke off the stub shaft I installed the shaft into the spindle and marked it so that the shaft would protrude the same amout as a functional hub and then welded it to the spindle on the bottom where the needle bearings were. I had to run a few beads to fill the void and then used a flapper on my grinder to remove the excess and create a flat surface that would sit flush on the bumper.
Make sense?

Volcom · May 3rd, 2007, 08:12 AM

I hope to copy this in the future

Thanks for the great idea Frank!

Steve · May 3rd, 2007, 08:22 AM

Nice work!

Frank Z · May 3rd, 2007, 08:23 AM

You're Welcome. Make sure you post some pics of yours as well.

Frank Z · May 3rd, 2007, 08:23 AM

Thanks Steve.

Frank Z · May 3rd, 2007, 04:47 PM

Here's a better pic of the finished product.

CSP · May 3rd, 2007, 04:52 PM

Nice work as usual Frank. I like the beef that setup affords vs the trailer spindle option.