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September 20th, 2006, 07:21 AM #1
Warn Winch Solenoid Troubleshooting & Replacement
I have an XD9000i and over labor day in moab it stopped pulling. In it's defense it's about 5 years old with LOTS of hard pulls on it, and until now has never stopped working. So when i hit the controller to spool in it just "clicks" in the housing above the drum, it'll spool out no problem, just not in I've never opened one of those things up and frankly know nothing about electrical. Eric thought is was most likely the solenoid, so does anyone know the part number for that or where i could order one up? I can't imagine it being that hard to change, i just need to pull the cover tonight and see...any help would be appreciated, and since i can't read very well, the more pics you can post the better
September 20th, 2006, 08:56 AM #2
OK -- the XD9000i has been out for a few years and is one of the models that was changed a few times in production (like the addition of the 5-wire remote instead of the 3-wire one...). The good news is that you're likely "right on the money" with the solenoid diagnosis and the solenoids are the same part number throughout production...
The WARN P/N is 28396 and can be found under a few more numbers too:
(I'll edit in the vendors as I figure em out - these are from some OLD pencil notes)
- 15-487 (this is occaisionaly found in boat shops as a starter solenoid - edit)
Individually the solenoids look like this:
WARN's "i" winches use qty=4 top-terminal solenoids that slide into a rail that's under that top cover -- They're a bit of a PITA to get out, but... they all replace easily enough... The solenoids are used in "pairs" so it takes qty=2 for "IN" and qty=2 for "OUT", and if one goes out the winch won't turn and you get to hear the 'other' working solenoid for that direction "click", like you're describing.
the fix is easy... with things still connected to power -- pull the cover, attach your remote and make the solenoid 'clicky noise'... you'll be able to hear which solenoid is clicking (for your "IN")... with that -- chase the small control wire (like the "key to start" wire on a starter solenoid). to the other solenoid that should be "turning on" -- disconnect that wire at the 'bad' solenoid... AND to be certain that you've disconnected the correct wire -- re-verify that you can still make the "solenoid clicky sound" for your "IN" and that "OUT" still is fully functional.
That's as far as you wanna go with power on -- Disconnect ALL power at the battery so you're not learning welding too!
Then it's all about dissection to remove the one bad solenoid and swap in the replacement. The high-current stuff will be handled by copper straps... sometimes numbering them before you start is handy! -- I always go through the trouble of cleaning the contact area and applying a conductive grease (Like Alox or ALGuard) to help assure that I will always have tug!
BIG HINT: if you've got a digital or other camera -- TAKE PICURES OF THAT MESS BEFORE YOU START removing a bunch of wires... you will need to put em back together...
The schematic(kinda) look for the 9000i solenoid pack is a lot like this one (this is for the 3-wire early remote, but the solenoids are the same - primary difference is that the ground is also switching through the remote in the 5-wire version):
This pic also talks about how to add a wired remote; that's the stuff on the left edge with the nomenclature "remote switch wire"
Huge image of what you can expect under the cover (again a 3-wire model and this has the aforementioned wired remote already rigged to it)
This is a link to a larger schematic... if you need something to print and look at. maybe??... http://www.pajero4x4.ru/winch/8274schematic.jpg
Last edited by satan; September 20th, 2006 at 09:30 AM.
September 20th, 2006, 09:02 AM #3
Great tech post satan.
Originally Posted by satan
September 20th, 2006, 09:06 AM #4
WOW, i don't think i could as for a better response, thanks satan Now, the only question is, can i pick one of these solenoids up locally at say Napa or Ace or do i need to call someplace like Barney Brothers or Warn and have them send it out? I was hoping to get it working by Sun, because now that it doesn't work...i'll absolutely need it to at some point on sunday
September 20th, 2006, 09:55 AM #5
For local -- I'd try someone with access to TransAmerican (most of the big chains - and 4wp, and Performance 4x4), they may have it as the WARN p/n...
I'll bet that Mike or Steve at DB Electrical (800-753-2242 email@example.com ) usually have stock (that's where I got my last set for $24.95/each... maybe prices have changed after 4-yrs!) They're in TN, so FedEx is QUICK from them, but picks up soon. These guys would have the Prestolite number.
I'll bet that you'd get one in town for maybe $40, but it'd likely be a 4xshop or a electrical automotive re-builder kinda place -- If you have boat/marine places nearby -- maybe $55 would find you one.
I went back into my original post for the P/Ns... didn't find much more detail.. I'm thinking now that I had a guy on the phone passed me some "old" part numbers from a paper catalog for all those things...
SO far your best hunting will be to find either:
AMATEK / Prestolite p/n:SAZ-4201EY
http://preview.ametek.com/product/Pr...roduct_Id=3174 <--- link to the tech-specs for this family of solenoids... the "EY" at the end of the p/n identifies the terminal materials as copper - in a pinch you could likely find a few other materials that'd work to get you by until you could have one in hand.!
On your side of the divide, I'd call - Six States Distributing (800-453-5703 SLC, UT) They will have the WARN part number as will WARN themselves!
In my world... How often do you "POWER OUT" ??? Take some time and swap one, or both, of the good "OUT" solenoids for your bad "IN", and at least you'd have tug... but no power out... so you'd always need to find a way to relieve tension on your cable to unhook it from things... and remember to NOT reel it all the way tight to the drum when storing the cable -- too tight and you won't be able to release the freewheel clutch! ... (the 'normal trail fix, IMHO)
Last edited by satan; September 20th, 2006 at 09:58 AM.
September 20th, 2006, 10:00 AM #6
Question for an electrical expert (which isn't me): Is there any reason a standard 12V automotive solenoid would not work for this? The solenoid in my EB looks exactly like the pic in satan's first post. Is there really any difference?
September 20th, 2006, 10:11 AM #7
The largest difference is duty cycle -- the "coil" is usually the limiting factor...
In these things the coil is good for about a 25% duty cycle with a maximum "on" time of 5 minutes or so...
... generally a starter solenoid will have a lower duty cycle -- or shorter "on" time. ( I mean you really don't crank the starter for 5mins, nor do you have to restart one time for every 20 minutes... )...
If you feed me some specifics on your EB (Yr etc.. so I can find the part) - I'll see how close they are... and if that'd be a viable swap .!
ALSO - On the topic of field repairs... I HATE that little rail thing that they're mounted in -- it's simple and elegant and so "NOT 4xWinch"! the real hassle is getting the relay's themselves out. I've been in situations where the rail needs to be loosened to access the solenoids... BUT as a general rule - once he relays are loose you can kinda slide em to get a little space, and turn em till they're lose... NEVER a fun time.
Last edited by satan; September 20th, 2006 at 10:18 AM.
September 20th, 2006, 10:16 AM #8Originally Posted by satan
September 20th, 2006, 10:19 AM #9
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Those solenoids also look identical to the glow plug solenoid on my Powerstroke. I'd wager the duty cycle for the glow plugs is closer to the requirement of a winch solenoid than a starting solenoid.
With that said, the Powerstroke GPRs are notorious for being relatively expensive ($90ish, I think) and dying fairly frequently. It'd be interesting to see how those solenoids differ from the winch ones.
September 20th, 2006, 10:45 AM #10
FYI the max on-time for the a '99 glow solenoid (looked that one up) is 2 minutes... ~$60 and for 24V too, right! -- the Amatek p/n SBC4401E has a 24v coil that's rated continuous... (and still 60k cycles MTBF) - betcha it's more $$ !
September 20th, 2006, 02:11 PM #11
Originally Posted by satanThe benefits from MILSPEC requirements are priceless!
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September 20th, 2006, 02:26 PM #12Originally Posted by Knuckelhead
September 20th, 2006, 02:52 PM #13
Originally Posted by satan
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September 20th, 2006, 07:34 PM #14
Napa p/n ST80 is a continuous duty 80 amp solenoid. It was a while ago that I replaced mine, so I might be wrong, but I think the base was slightly different than the original Warn part, but all the conections worked out fine. This was on an old M8000.
-JoelI don't know what the world may need, but a V8 engine is a good start for me. I think I'll drive to find a place, to be surly.
September 21st, 2006, 07:09 AM #15Originally Posted by flashover
Originally Posted by satan
September 21st, 2006, 07:45 AM #16
Nope -- the M8000 uses an external solenoid box, and has a bit of a luxury in that it can use larger solenoids. The Napa ST-80's physical size and terminal locations will keep it from fitting inside the cover that houses the solenoids for Warn's "i" series winches...(solenoids are 'integrated into the winch housing)
Looking a bit like R2D2's early trash-can-cousin, the ST-80 is a pretty useful solenoid for a bunch of other applications (more below the st-80 image)
The ST-80 current rating is kinda low really for heavier winches (80A), but should handle extended on times (maybe an OK glow-plug relay!)... The contacts on the ST-80 are silver alloy - they should be really low loss and should last longer, BUT they may have issues with heavy initial loads (like the huge initial current surge from a winch motor) -- The Echlin St-85 uses copper contact that will tolerate the "burn" from the initial draws a bit better (IMHO) both these Napa parts should be about $50 & are old in the 'Standard Ignition' line for a few $ less.
October 5th, 2006, 02:54 PM #17
Quick update here....I spoke to Warn, it's part #72631, and retails for $15. He said that i can also order this part from napa, but i ended up going through Barney Brothers, it was $12.50 each and will be here tomorrow, so i ordered up 2 to keep one as a spare....hey Steve you busy sat
Last edited by Wally; October 5th, 2006 at 03:11 PM.
October 5th, 2006, 03:07 PM #18Originally Posted by WallyRandy Langstraat
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