Govt Out of Control

**Clod Hopper** · January 24th, 2022, 02:57 PM

One of the primary stories supporting white supremist violence in our country, was really the FBI creating a reason to justify their existence.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/fbi-t...idnapping-plot

And not so much that it happened, but the worst part is no one will be held responsible. I would love to eat these words at some point in the future, but I doubt that will be the case.

**creepycrawler** · January 27th, 2022, 08:57 PM

Seriously, are there any dems here that would like to defend this? I mean, this is your party.

From Fox News - California trans child molester, 26, gets 2 years in juvenile facility thanks to progressive DA Gascon
California trans child molester, 26, gets 2 years in juvenile facility thanks to progressive DA Gascon

https://www.foxnews.com/us/transgend...ting-sentenced

**1BGDOG** · January 28th, 2022, 10:07 AM

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
No one forced these people to be a part of the plot to kidnap her. They felt intimidated etc?
The suspects made a choice...

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

One of the primary stories supporting white supremist violence in our country, was really the FBI creating a reason to justify their existence.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/fbi-t...idnapping-plot

And not so much that it happened, but the worst part is no one will be held responsible. I would love to eat these words at some point in the future, but I doubt that will be the case.

**Clod Hopper** · January 28th, 2022, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
No one forced these people to be a part of the plot to kidnap her. They felt intimidated etc?
The suspects made a choice...

Whoa big guy. No one said anywhere that those involved shouldnt be held responsible for their own actions.

But to answer your question in a manner you werent intending: Exactly! Why arent these FBI personnel and their civvie informants held responsible for what they did?

**1BGDOG** · January 28th, 2022, 02:21 PM

I thought we would see this differently LOL
No one made those guys get catfished by informants... they made a choice to break the law.

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

Whoa big guy. No one said anywhere that those involved shouldnt be held responsible for their own actions.

But to answer your question in a manner you werent intending: Exactly! Why arent these FBI personnel and their civvie informants held responsible for what they did?

**Clod Hopper** · January 28th, 2022, 04:56 PM

But worse is a govt convincing citizens to break the law so that same govt can arrest then and claim keeping us safe. It is still in motion, but as with so many other govt overreach issues, I suspect the FBI participants will get promoted rather than convicted. Where is the rule of law?

**1BGDOG** · January 28th, 2022, 05:09 PM

Nooo... what is worse is folks not having a spine and doing what is right when tempted to do wrong... you can't blame the .gov for everything.

The accused militia leader is allegedly heard on tape: "They're going to die. Period."

https://abc7chicago.com/michigan-gov...rder/11512695/

Again if you and I are hanging out, and I say to you, "Let's kill so and so...."
You have choices to make...

Also one of the the militia members pleaded and part of the plea is to paint the other militia members as well... kooky.

The jury will decide

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

But worse is a govt convincing citizens to break the law so that same govt can arrest then and claim keeping us safe. It is still in motion, but as with so many other govt overreach issues, I suspect the FBI participants will get promoted rather than convicted. Where is the rule of law?

**Clod Hopper** · January 30th, 2022, 07:55 PM

What a shill. Dont bother to read anything. Dont bother to do any complex thinking. Dont bother to look beyond the party line. Cant even stay on the topic of the thread, despite being led back to it once lost.

**1BGDOG** · January 31st, 2022, 06:25 PM

I feel sad that you blame people's personal choices on the government.
They made the choice to make poor decisions. You blame the government for anything and everything.
SAD!
Not that hard to see.
Your thinking....

"I just got a ticket for doing 90 in a 55. It's the government's fault!!!"

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

What a shill. Dont bother to read anything. Dont bother to do any complex thinking. Dont bother to look beyond the party line. Cant even stay on the topic of the thread, despite being led back to it once lost.

**Clod Hopper** · February 1st, 2022, 02:23 PM

**1BGDOG** · February 1st, 2022, 08:05 PM

Civility lost....
You can't defend your position, so you attack the one winning with insults in the discussion.
Just sad Clod.
Again these Y'All Qaeda members made dumb choices and you blame the .gov.... because you think the .gov is smart yet dumb at the same time.
Smart enough to "trick" these clowns, yet dumb enough to govern.

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

**Clod Hopper** · February 2nd, 2022, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

Civility lost....
You can't defend your position, so you attack the one winning with insults in the discussion.
Just sad Clod.
Again these Y'All Qaeda members made dumb choices and you blame the .gov.... because you think the .gov is smart yet dumb at the same time.
Smart enough to "trick" these clowns, yet dumb enough to govern.

Defend my position?!? You sincerely need to go back and recognize you have avoided any response on the OP. All you addressing is your attempt to change the topic. I DID answer your point... Post 4. Go look it up. Same time, you have YET to respond to mine.

And based on your bumbling in this thread, the clown shoes are apt.

**1BGDOG** · February 2nd, 2022, 05:28 PM

You BLAME the government for what people CHOSE to do. "They "tricked" them poor good ol' boys!!!" The gobernment is to blame. LOL
Simple as that. The "upstanding militia members" DID NOT have to do ANY of this. They could have walked away but they didn't.
Personal responsibility.
Again if I turn to you and say "Hey Clod let's kill so and so..." you have choices to make

I have answered your post 4 in post 5 actually.
Weird, it's like you don't understand what informants do... and why they are used. I do know why and how they are used. Don't blame them for people making dumb choices.
See a theme here?
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. (Not you the feeble minded guys who wanted to kill the governor. Let that sink in.... again they made that choice.

So in closing these guys were dumb... but you blame the government... when the dummies made a choice.

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

Defend my position?!? You sincerely need to go back and recognize you have avoided any response on the OP. All you addressing is your attempt to change the topic. I DID answer your point... Post 4. Go look it up. Same time, you have YET to respond to mine.

And based on your bumbling in this thread, the clown shoes are apt.

**Clod Hopper** · February 6th, 2022, 10:23 AM

You are being purposely obtuse. You keep singing the same song that the militia are responsible for their actions. I agreed with you. Yeah, I agreed with you. You want to keep trying to convince someone that agrees with you that they are wrong?

At the same time, you ignore the point of the article. Even though I have, more than once, restated the issue. I know what informants are for. I have no problem with them or the use of informants. They have their place.

However, when the FBI begins to use informants as active organizers, to initiate law breaking, to convince people to participate in actions they otherwise wouldnt, just to then collect the participants in a trawling net and boast to the media that your trusty govt is preventing crime by arresting all these wrongdoers, when in reality the govt is encouraging citizens to break those laws.... There is absolutely NO reason our govt should be organizing crime to justify their existence.

And no, I am NOT defending the militia, which is your same chorus. There are many groups and individuals in this country that dont align with what I believe and choose to support. But I absolutely believe and support in their rights of citizenship and find that the govt we trust to be honorable and ethical breaking all those trusts to unnecessarily fomenting crime is beyond the pale. I dont give a crap if those govt officials and that informant thought they "had the right intentions", they blatantly broke the law, just like the militia members, and ALL of them should be held responsible. But our government creating problems out of thin air... that should be held to an even more stringent standard.

**1BGDOG** · February 6th, 2022, 01:05 PM

STOP BLAMING THE GOVERNMENT.
Simple as that.
Your jam is "the government is to blame!!!!"
See post 5 again, we see things differently.
You blame the government.
The gov was being tricky and mean and "creating problems out of thin air"... just hilarious.

So in closing the militia is wrong and should be held accountable but only because the government tricked them...

Circular logic right there ol Clod.

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

You are being purposely obtuse. You keep singing the same song that the militia are responsible for their actions. I agreed with you. Yeah, I agreed with you. You want to keep trying to convince someone that agrees with you that they are wrong?

At the same time, you ignore the point of the article. Even though I have, more than once, restated the issue. I know what informants are for. I have no problem with them or the use of informants. They have their place.

However, when the FBI begins to use informants as active organizers, to initiate law breaking, to convince people to participate in actions they otherwise wouldnt, just to then collect the participants in a trawling net and boast to the media that your trusty govt is preventing crime by arresting all these wrongdoers, when in reality the govt is encouraging citizens to break those laws.... There is absolutely NO reason our govt should be organizing crime to justify their existence.

And no, I am NOT defending the militia, which is your same chorus. There are many groups and individuals in this country that dont align with what I believe and choose to support. But I absolutely believe and support in their rights of citizenship and find that the govt we trust to be honorable and ethical breaking all those trusts to unnecessarily fomenting crime is beyond the pale. I dont give a crap if those govt officials and that informant thought they "had the right intentions", they blatantly broke the law, just like the militia members, and ALL of them should be held responsible. But our government creating problems out of thin air... that should be held to an even more stringent standard.

**Clod Hopper** · February 6th, 2022, 06:14 PM

You are really good at twisting things up to stick to a singular point and block out any idea that may not support your concepts of how the world works. Good luck with that.

So no matter how deeply illegal the activities of the govt might be, no matter what a govt employee or elected rep might do that is contrary to the law, not just ethically sticky but actually breaking the law, they are untouchable and justified in doing so. Those militia members must be so dasdardly that even if they havent broken any laws they MUST be jailed using any means possible to protect the "good" people. Lets just ignore any rights, laws, ethics, and freedoms. *** em. They have a different point of view than you so find a way to incarcerate em to cleanse the the "bad think" from society. That sounds a lot more like red star communism right there brother.

We are clearly on very different worlds. I recognize others people are welcome to different points of view, even you, as that is part of living in a free country. The govt using informants who operate as passive viewers and report actions, sure no problem. When those govt paid informants and officers cross the line and start inciting and encouraging people to break laws, that is wrong, illegal.

I will skip the deserving clown shoes meme since it agitates you unnecessarily, god knows why. Keep doing your soft shoe shuffle in your size 24s.

**1BGDOG** · February 8th, 2022, 01:57 PM

Interesting point of view...

You know who disagrees with you as well?
Someone that was there... Kaleb.

Or was he tricked once again by the government?

Franks said he “was not entrapped or induced to commit any crimes” by undercover agents or informants. He signed a document agreeing to plead guilty as charged.
In August 2020, less than two months before their arrest, Franks said he and a co-defendant “discussed their frustration with people who advocated anti-government action but were unwilling to use force themselves.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kaleb...b050042430c24a

Good luck Clod, I for one will NOT be joining a militia... cause common sense.
Enjoy that clown pie in the face LOL

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

You are really good at twisting things up to stick to a singular point and block out any idea that may not support your concepts of how the world works. Good luck with that.

So no matter how deeply illegal the activities of the govt might be, no matter what a govt employee or elected rep might do that is contrary to the law, not just ethically sticky but actually breaking the law, they are untouchable and justified in doing so. Those militia members must be so dasdardly that even if they havent broken any laws they MUST be jailed using any means possible to protect the "good" people. Lets just ignore any rights, laws, ethics, and freedoms. *** em. They have a different point of view than you so find a way to incarcerate em to cleanse the the "bad think" from society. That sounds a lot more like red star communism right there brother.

We are clearly on very different worlds. I recognize others people are welcome to different points of view, even you, as that is part of living in a free country. The govt using informants who operate as passive viewers and report actions, sure no problem. When those govt paid informants and officers cross the line and start inciting and encouraging people to break laws, that is wrong, illegal.

I will skip the deserving clown shoes meme since it agitates you unnecessarily, god knows why. Keep doing your soft shoe shuffle in your size 24s.

**Clod Hopper** · February 8th, 2022, 05:26 PM

**1BGDOG** · February 9th, 2022, 06:05 PM

Never would have thought you got this from anywhere else but irate...
Also there is nothing to listen to you that I haven't heard before.
The .gov is bad.
These guys are bad (but not really Clod thinks, since they have "different point of view") and were tricked by the .gov's CI.
In closing blame the govt for these guy's actions... that the govt made them do?!!?

Take care Clod.
I await your next stolen meme from irate.

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

**creepycrawler** · February 9th, 2022, 07:29 PM

Do stupid shit, win stupid prizes.

From Fox News - Biden approval rating drops below 40% for the first time in an average of major polls
Biden approval rating drops below 40% for the first time in an average of major polls

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...-average-polls

**creepycrawler** · February 9th, 2022, 07:32 PM

Biden was among the group yelling for Trump to take a cognative test which he freely did and passed.

Why wont bidens handlers let him take one?

From Fox News - Republicans urge Biden to take cognitive test, say his 'mental decline' has 'become more apparent'
Republicans urge Biden to take cognitive test, say his 'mental decline' has 'become more apparent'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep...t-assume-worst

**Clod Hopper** · February 10th, 2022, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

Never would have thought you got this from anywhere else but irate...
I await your next stolen meme from irate.

For someone who participates in an offroad forum, your animus for the next gen Pirate4x4 is strange...

**1BGDOG** · February 10th, 2022, 04:07 PM

To me it is just a weird place to get your memes.... some of those threads are really icky.

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

For someone who participates in an offroad forum, your animus for the next gen Pirate4x4 is strange...

**Clod Hopper** · February 11th, 2022, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

To me it is just a weird place to get your memes.... some of those threads are really icky.

Wat? That is your issue? There is some "icky" discussions on pIrate? So a meme thread on another offroad forum is verboten even though it is pretty much the same thing we have here. silliness.

**Clod Hopper** · February 11th, 2022, 09:53 AM

**1BGDOG** · February 11th, 2022, 02:19 PM

No not a meme thread per se, but some of the meme's themself are REALLY REALLY not cool.
And some posts within some threads are REALLY REALLY not cool.

Like this meme I saw.... you have to be really really dim witted to believe it...

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

Wat? That is your issue? There is some "icky" discussions on pIrate? So a meme thread on another offroad forum is verboten even though it is pretty much the same thing we have here. silliness.

**1BGDOG** · February 11th, 2022, 02:20 PM

Oh... didn't see this before I made my previous post LOL
Yeah...
So if you think the President controls gas man.....
I feel REALLY REALLY sad for you.

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

**DaleD** · February 11th, 2022, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

Oh... didn't see this before I made my previous post LOL
Yeah...
So if you think the President controls gas man.....
I feel REALLY REALLY sad for you.

Yep... He had nothing to do with shutting down a certain pipeline..

**1BGDOG** · February 11th, 2022, 07:07 PM

Bro.... you think THAT is the problem? LOL
WHERE was that headed to? It was EXPORT Man...
So cute

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/bp-e...s-q4-2021.html

Originally Posted by DaleD

Yep... He had nothing to do with shutting down a certain pipeline..

**noahfecks** · February 11th, 2022, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

Weird that the smartest guy on CO 4x4 completely missed the point of this meme

**1BGDOG** · February 11th, 2022, 08:17 PM

Not "weird" at all since there is actually no point to this meme, but thanks for the "compliment"
Hope you are well Noah.

Originally Posted by noahfecks

Weird that the smartest guy on CO 4x4 completely missed the point of this meme

**noahfecks** · February 11th, 2022, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

Not "weird" at all since there is actually no point to this meme, but thanks for the "compliment"
Hope you are well Noah.

**DaleD** · February 12th, 2022, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

Bro.... you think THAT is the problem? LOL
WHERE was that headed to? It was EXPORT Man...
So cute

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/bp-e...s-q4-2021.html

So I guess the thousands of jobs it took with it doesn't matter in your world got it.. SAD WEIRD

**1BGDOG** · February 12th, 2022, 09:31 AM

You might find this interesting...

https://www.statesman.com/story/news...ck/6673822002/

Originally Posted by DaleD

So I guess the thousands of jobs it took with it doesn't matter in your world got it.. SAD WEIRD

**1BGDOG** · February 12th, 2022, 09:32 AM

.

Originally Posted by noahfecks

Is Noah a sociopath or psychopath?

**creepycrawler** · February 12th, 2022, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

.

Do you really look.like that monkey?

**Clod Hopper** · February 12th, 2022, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by 1BGDOG

You might find this interesting...

https://www.statesman.com/story/news...ck/6673822002/

You need to read your supporting info closer. The piece only focuses on pipe crews and basically says they didnt dig deep enough to figure out how many people would be involved and therefore ruled it out. They didnt consider any of the industry suppliers, truckers, engineers, planners, and the myriad of other people who will be involved in that pipeline. Poor effort on the reporter's part.

**DaleD** · February 12th, 2022, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

You need to read your supporting info closer. The piece only focuses on pipe crews and basically says they didnt dig deep enough to figure out how many people would be involved and therefore ruled it out. They didnt consider any of the industry suppliers, truckers, engineers, planners, and the myriad of other people who will be involved in that pipeline. Poor effort on the reporter's part.

Psst... Clod don't tell him. Allow him to keep looking like a fool it's better that way. SAD WEIRD

**creepycrawler** · February 13th, 2022, 07:56 AM

Didnt we already know this but also knew that nothing would come of it because nobody wants a suicide?

From Fox News - Clinton campaign paid to 'infiltrate' Trump Tower, White House servers to link Trump to Russia: Durham
Clinton campaign paid to 'infiltrate' Trump Tower, White House servers to link Trump to Russia: Durham

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cli...-house-servers

**1BGDOG** · February 14th, 2022, 07:05 PM

Trust me... there is enough work to go around.
That is the key takeaway...
Do your own research.. like you did on the vaccine LOL

Originally Posted by Clod Hopper

You need to read your supporting info closer. The piece only focuses on pipe crews and basically says they didnt dig deep enough to figure out how many people would be involved and therefore ruled it out. They didnt consider any of the industry suppliers, truckers, engineers, planners, and the myriad of other people who will be involved in that pipeline. Poor effort on the reporter's part.

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