Colorado gun control 2021-2022 (what are you buying?)

[Avenger]

Anyone want to hazard a guess on whether we'll get hit with an assault weapons ban or are we good for another year?

I *was* thinking that it's too late in the session this year for anything to get done. However back in 2013 it only took them 6-7 weeks to go from bill introduction to the governor signing off the hi-cap mag ban and background checks. Effective date was 1 July which seems to be the norm.

https://openstates.org/co/bills/2013A/HB13-1224/

https://openstates.org/co/bills/2013A/HB13-1229/

I just bought a M5 lower.

[74BuckinBronc]

I am trying to buy ammo. Why the lack of ammo?

[ASCTLC]

I am trying to buy ammo. Why the lack of ammo?

Because antifa/blm types always show up in violent mobs.

[newracer]

I am trying to buy ammo. Why the lack of ammo?

Because everyone is trying to buy ammo.

[sweater]

Because everyone is trying to buy ammo.

If anyone's interested in more details, there was this interview with "Jason Vanderbrink, the president of ammunition for Vista Outdoor. In other words, he’s the big boss for Federal Premium Ammunition, CCI, Speer, and now Remington ammunition."

During the Obama Administration, some consumers feared stricter firearm regulations and bought as many guns and as much ammunition as they could. That tailed off significantly when Trump was elected. (Folks in the firearm industry call this the “Trump Slump.”) The FBI tracks background checks before firearms purchases through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which is the closest measure we have for tracking firearm purchases. Firearm background checks have increased almost every single year since 2002, except for Trump’s first year in office, when they decreased from 27.5 million in 2016 to 25.2 million in 2017. Federal had to lay off 200 employees in 2017. In 2020, there were 39.7 million firearm background checks.

“So when the market turned in March, we were coming off of a tough three-year business cycle.” Vanderbrink says. “[At the time,] the furthest thing from our mind was expanding capacity. So when the market tuned so fast you had two problems: There was certainly not the labor available and, two, it takes time to train people…You just can’t turn on a dime. You can’t go hire hundreds of people overnight, train them and boom, on Friday you have more ammo. It just doesn’t work that way, it’s impossible. The key takeaway is that the business had been tough for three years and we had to right the ship, if you will. And then when demand exploded, it’s impossible to react that fast.”

Raw Material Shortage
Accessing materials has been another challenge for all ammo companies and for individual reloaders. Primers are hard to come by since there’s been such a surge in factory ammo. And brass is another challenge, Vanderbrink says.

“The brass market for the most part is seeing unprecedented demand not only in the ammo market but the national coin shortage and that is certainly driving brass prices up and availability down,” he says. “Brass is a hard commodity to acquire right now and every round that any ammo company makes, for the most part, has brass in it.”

- mike

[Clod Hopper]

People anticipating this stuff coming...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ns-guns-479704

[sweater]

People anticipating this stuff coming...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ns-guns-479704

Other executive actions remain unclear. But stakeholders have speculated that the president could announce regulations on concealed assault-style firearms; prohibitions on firearm purchases for those convicted of domestic violence against their partners; and federal guidance on home storage safety measures.

More than 100 House Democrats wrote to Biden last week, urging him to take action on the concealed assault-style firearms, which is similar to the one used in the Colorado shooting in which 10 people were killed.

Oh, you mean the ATF will have to adhere to some sort of more consistent and sane classification around SBRs?

I could never have seen that one coming.

- mike

[Ken L]

I am waiting for a hand guard to finish my M5 build. Started ordering stuff in October, the hand guard has been on order since 11/24 and is supposed to be delivered mid-May. That's the longest lead item, heck I got the lower quicker than that. Barrel and bolt were ordered about the same time, and they came in about 3 weeks ago from Wilson Combat. I already have 2 or 3 magazines.

6.5 Creedmoor is what I'm going with. Every once in a while I see ammo in stock somewhere at reasonable prices and I pick it up. I believe I have 120-140 rounds now.

I just hope I get to shoot it before I have a boating mishap.

[creepycrawler]

Oh, you mean the ATF will have to adhere to some sort of more consistent and sane classification around SBRs?

I could never have seen that one coming.

- mike

Quit being obtuse. You know good and well that defining the description of a SBR isn't what they are pushing for here.

[Clod Hopper]

Oh, you mean the ATF will have to adhere to some sort of more consistent and sane classification around SBRs?

I could never have seen that one coming.

- mike

Just more political circus over unimportant aspects that will have absolutely no impact at reducing the problem that is reason for the legislation. If you like to address a plumbing leak by refencing your backyard, go ahead, but it makes absolutely no sense to me. But if you tell me that everyone needs to refence their backyard because you have a plumbing leak, I will stand in the way as best I can.

[Aaron]

What are you buying?

This: https://xproducts.com/product/xm42-flamethrower-lite/

Buddy just became a vendor and is offering them to me and friends at about cost plus tax. Figure it will be a much better way to ignite the gasoline in my sprinkler systems, rather than waste tracer rounds, when the time comes.

[noahfecks]

If anyone's interested in more details, there was this interview with "Jason Vanderbrink, the president of ammunition for Vista Outdoor. In other words, he’s the big boss for Federal Premium Ammunition, CCI, Speer, and now Remington ammunition."



- mike

Thanks for the link and explanation.

I will say I find Vanderbrik's comments to be difficult to believe. Even during the "Trump Slump" I found it very difficult to find a consistent supply of ammunition and/or ammo components. Hard to believe they were already operating at what they felt was capacity to meet full demand. There should have been a supply of every caliber on the shelf and I was lucky if I found something 1 in 5 trips to a retailer. Asking the group, was this the same experience for others?

[Sound_Man]

Since January of 2008 I started stocking up. What my wife calls my shrine to the second amendment is in pretty good shape.

[sweater]

Thanks for the link and explanation.

I will say I find Vanderbrik's comments to be difficult to believe. Even during the "Trump Slump" I found it very difficult to find a consistent supply of ammunition and/or ammo components. Hard to believe they were already operating at what they felt was capacity to meet full demand. There should have been a supply of every caliber on the shelf and I was lucky if I found something 1 in 5 trips to a retailer. Asking the group, was this the same experience for others?

The last time I found it a problem to find good prices by the case was during the previous shortage - but I buy almost solely online and by case minimum. I rarely buy in-store unless my LGS/range has a good deal on something like bricks of .22

- mike

[sweater]

Quit being obtuse. You know good and well that defining the description of a SBR isn't what they are pushing for here.

Honestly, despite my obvious reputation, not trying to introduce any debate or anything here.

My only reference to this was about some of the more asinine rules that the ATF uses for classification of SBRs, AOWs, pistols, etc.



- mike

[creepycrawler]

Honestly, despite my obvious reputation, not trying to introduce any debate or anything here.

My only reference to this was about some of the more asinine rules that the ATF uses for classification of SBRs, AOWs, pistols, etc.



- mike

I completely get that the current and past descriptions of SBRs has been ridiculous but its plain from democrats constant whining that "assault rifles" need to be banned on top of the mention of bidens plan to fix it where the pistols cant be concealed that the ultimate plan is beyond defining description.

[creepycrawler]

As an afterthought, if they want to make them "hard to conceal" they should just do away with the SBR designation all together but force you to have a stock on them. That would be much simpler.

[sweater]

As an afterthought, if they want to make them "hard to conceal" they should just do away with the SBR designation all together but force you to have a stock on them. That would be much simpler.

Or make a rifle with less than a 16" barrel an NFA item.

The ATF has flip-flopped on pistol braces so much it's just a joke at this point.

Personally I went with a stamp for mine because I don't see the NFA rules for already-stamped items changing much, if at all.

- mike

[newracer]

Honestly, despite my obvious reputation, not trying to introduce any debate or anything here.

My only reference to this was about some of the more asinine rules that the ATF uses for classification of SBRs, AOWs, pistols, etc.


- mike

[Avenger]

Well, no comments on CO legislation. Not surprising I guess since nothing has been introduced. I bet Giffords, Brady, Everytown, etc. are sending drafts left and right to State dems.

I am waiting for a hand guard to finish my M5 build. Started ordering stuff in October, the hand guard has been on order since 11/24 and is supposed to be delivered mid-May. That's the longest lead item, heck I got the lower quicker than that. Barrel and bolt were ordered about the same time, and they came in about 3 weeks ago from Wilson Combat. I already have 2 or 3 magazines.

6.5 Creedmoor is what I'm going with. Every once in a while I see ammo in stock somewhere at reasonable prices and I pick it up. I believe I have 120-140 rounds now.

I just hope I get to shoot it before I have a boating mishap.

I'll be building a 6.5 CM as well. M5 upper and lower, Larue Trigger, maybe the new PRS lite stock. All the other parts I need to research. Goals are relatively light weight and under 1 moa. Not sure what weight is realistic without spending a fortune. If I could get it under 7.5lb without optics that would be nice. Mind sharing the details of your build?

This: https://xproducts.com/product/xm42-flamethrower-lite/

Buddy just became a vendor and is offering them to me and friends at about cost plus tax. Figure it will be a much better way to ignite the gasoline in my sprinkler systems, rather than waste tracer rounds, when the time comes.

How would that do on weeds? haha.

[Aaron]

Decent video explaining Biden's latest announcement

[ASCTLC]

I'd correct/expand on one thing he said: ..."how to interpret existing law.".

Anyone paying attention these last 30 some years shows a politician's true intent when they review how to "interpretation existing law" is really 'how they can distort' it to get their way. I'm consistent with my view, from either political party, that if something needs improved of fixed they should work on changes to the existing laws and quick spending their damned time on making "new" laws to fix deficiencies in existing laws. Their record for righting some perceived wrong is too often distorted to abused people.

[Ken L]

I'll be building a 6.5 CM as well. M5 upper and lower, Larue Trigger, maybe the new PRS lite stock. All the other parts I need to research. Goals are relatively light weight and under 1 moa. Not sure what weight is realistic without spending a fortune. If I could get it under 7.5lb without optics that would be nice. Mind sharing the details of your build?

I am also trying for lightweight; under 7.5lbs would be ideal. I don't know if I'll get there, as the Wilson Combat barrel that I wanted was out of stock from the time I pressed "send" until the time I got my acknowledgement back, so the barrel is a bit heavier. than I originally planned on by about 10 ounces.

Here's what I have:

Aero Precision M5 upper and lower
Aero Precision Atlas-S-One 12" hand guard
Aero Precision lower parts kit
Wilson Combat BCG
Wilson Combat Super Sniper 20" barrel
Muzzle brake (forget what it is, but it's a top and front vent)
CMC Drop In Single Stage Match trigger, 2-2.5# pull
Mil-Spec Carbine buffer tube
Heavy 308 buffer
low-pro gas block
Rifle gas tube
Vortex Vanquish 4-12 scope
Strike Industries Modular Fixed Stock
Magpul pistol grip
Magpul Pmags

The S-One hand guard has about 6 slots of Pic rail at the rear and 6 at the front, the middle doesn't have any rail. This should allow me to mount the scope nice and low. It seems like I'll be able to get both rings on the upper with correct eye relief.

I have more $$ wrapped up in this build than any of my AR15s by a long shot, but I do have more premium components on this one. I'm going for a sub-MOA lightweight shooter also, and the components should enable that if I do my part. Particularly the Wilson barrel and BCG and the CMC trigger. I've thought about a carbon hand guard, but the couple ounces that it would save me over the Aero hand guard just didn't seem worth it. Wanted a rifle stock on it also, but didn't care for the weight of the Magpul, thus the Strike Industries. It's adjustable for LOP by taking out spacers. I have all of them in for now, seems about right but I'll see once I get to shoot it. It's the same LOP as my heavy 223 with the Magpul rifle stock. I have a generic AR10 charging handle on it. I'll upgrade the latch if I need to once I see how easy or hard it is to clear the scope to charge it. I have a standard-latch charging handle on that heavy barrel 223 with a 6-24 scope on it, and there's no problem charging with it. Prairie dogs don't seem to care how long it takes to charge it the first time. I may need to go to an adjustable gas block, but wanted to go the heavy buffer route first. I've read varying reports of 6.5 Creeds being overgassed versus 308s and working better with a custom length gas tube, but from what I've seen they were running a standard buffer. I'll know more once I get some trigger time. This is my first AR10/LR308 platform, so I'm looking forward to shooting it. My brother has a Browning XBolt in 6.5 Creed that I've shot, and with the muzzle brake you can watch the hole get made in the paper, which is way cool. That's what I'm aiming for (ha!)

[Avenger]

I am also trying for lightweight; under 7.5lbs would be ideal. I don't know if I'll get there, as the Wilson Combat barrel that I wanted was out of stock from the time I pressed "send" until the time I got my acknowledgement back, so the barrel is a bit heavier. than I originally planned on by about 10 ounces.

Here's what I have:

Aero Precision M5 upper and lower
Aero Precision Atlas-S-One 12" hand guard
Aero Precision lower parts kit
Wilson Combat BCG
Wilson Combat Super Sniper 20" barrel
Muzzle brake (forget what it is, but it's a top and front vent)
CMC Drop In Single Stage Match trigger, 2-2.5# pull
Mil-Spec Carbine buffer tube
Heavy 308 buffer
low-pro gas block
Rifle gas tube
Vortex Vanquish 4-12 scope
Strike Industries Modular Fixed Stock
Magpul pistol grip
Magpul Pmags

The S-One hand guard has about 6 slots of Pic rail at the rear and 6 at the front, the middle doesn't have any rail. This should allow me to mount the scope nice and low. It seems like I'll be able to get both rings on the upper with correct eye relief.

I have more $$ wrapped up in this build than any of my AR15s by a long shot, but I do have more premium components on this one. I'm going for a sub-MOA lightweight shooter also, and the components should enable that if I do my part. Particularly the Wilson barrel and BCG and the CMC trigger. I've thought about a carbon hand guard, but the couple ounces that it would save me over the Aero hand guard just didn't seem worth it. Wanted a rifle stock on it also, but didn't care for the weight of the Magpul, thus the Strike Industries. It's adjustable for LOP by taking out spacers. I have all of them in for now, seems about right but I'll see once I get to shoot it. It's the same LOP as my heavy 223 with the Magpul rifle stock. I have a generic AR10 charging handle on it. I'll upgrade the latch if I need to once I see how easy or hard it is to clear the scope to charge it. I have a standard-latch charging handle on that heavy barrel 223 with a 6-24 scope on it, and there's no problem charging with it. Prairie dogs don't seem to care how long it takes to charge it the first time. I may need to go to an adjustable gas block, but wanted to go the heavy buffer route first. I've read varying reports of 6.5 Creeds being overgassed versus 308s and working better with a custom length gas tube, but from what I've seen they were running a standard buffer. I'll know more once I get some trigger time. This is my first AR10/LR308 platform, so I'm looking forward to shooting it. My brother has a Browning XBolt in 6.5 Creed that I've shot, and with the muzzle brake you can watch the hole get made in the paper, which is way cool. That's what I'm aiming for (ha!)

Great build. That handguard is light.

I was planning on using a 50mm scope for better FOV, but hadn't considered height/clearance. Thanks for mentioning that.

This is the barrel I've been looking at. 37 oz.

https://faxonfirearms.com/match-seri...lon-extension/

[Ken L]

This is mine. https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-G...-65CSSRG20FT8/

52.8 oz Yours is 16oz lighter. I believe the one I originally wanted was a Tactical Hunter. I wanted 20" to get the best combination of ballistics and weight. I do want to hunt with this rifle, and also want to try to ring steel at 600-1000 yards. Just because......I mean is there any better reason?

[creepycrawler]

Personally I went with a stamp for mine because I don't see the NFA rules for already-stamped items changing much, if at all.

- mike

I have thought about doing this with my truck gun but never followed through after the thought. The $300 kinda sucks but expected. Actually, the main reason i never did it was because having to go get yet another set of prints done is just ridiculous, time consuming, and stupid.

I had to do the whole background check complete with prints to be an EMT. I had to do the same for my CCW in CO then I had to do the same for my CCW in OK. One would think that the government could just use the same set but of course, its the government which pretty much turns anything it touches into a flaming bag of dog poop.

Anyway, my boss already had sets of prints from a recent silencer purchase so just this evening texted me saying that he just sent in forms for 3 SBRs that he has. I guess i will go to jail tomorrow and get prints to get mine started and hope i am not too late.

[Avenger]

This is mine. https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Match-G...-65CSSRG20FT8/

52.8 oz Yours is 16oz lighter. I believe the one I originally wanted was a Tactical Hunter. I wanted 20" to get the best combination of ballistics and weight. I do want to hunt with this rifle, and also want to try to ring steel at 600-1000 yards. Just because......I mean is there any better reason?

Maybe 37 is too light. IDK. It seems counter productive to put a light barrel on something designed to shoot fast though.

[sweater]

I have thought about doing this with my truck gun but never followed through after the thought. The $300 kinda sucks but expected. Actually, the main reason i never did it was because having to go get yet another set of prints done is just ridiculous, time consuming, and stupid.

I had to do the whole background check complete with prints to be an EMT. I had to do the same for my CCW in CO then I had to do the same for my CCW in OK. One would think that the government could just use the same set but of course, its the government which pretty much turns anything it touches into a flaming bag of dog poop.

Anyway, my boss already had sets of prints from a recent silencer purchase so just this evening texted me saying that he just sent in forms for 3 SBRs that he has. I guess i will go to jail tomorrow and get prints to get mine started and hope i am not too late.

$200, so maybe the pain is a little less. And the most recent NFA purchase I made was hella easier than what you describe. My LGS/Range did everything in-house, no trips to the Boulder Sherriff, etc. It was actually a lot more of a painless process than I went through a few years ago for the SBR.

Still waiting on the damn thing from last October, though.

- mike

[creepycrawler]

$200, so maybe the pain is a little less. And the most recent NFA purchase I made was hella easier than what you describe. My LGS/Range did everything in-house, no trips to the Boulder Sherriff, etc. It was actually a lot more of a painless process than I went through a few years ago for the SBR.

Still waiting on the damn thing from last October, though.

- mike

$200? For some reason i was thinking it was $300 so that is better. I know the biggest gun store here will do prints if you order a silencer from them but my understanding was that they wouldn't do prints for other things but i guess i need to contact them myself and find out.

[1BGDOG]

Only thing I ever need more of is ammo, as a stamp collector I have all I need.

[1BGDOG]

Dude, I read this like 3 times and was like WTF is there gas in there?
Then the LOL kicked in...

This: https://xproducts.com/product/xm42-flamethrower-lite/

Buddy just became a vendor and is offering them to me and friends at about cost plus tax. Figure it will be a much better way to ignite the gasoline in my sprinkler systems, rather than waste tracer rounds, when the time comes.