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  1. #1

    Partisan Politics

    Politics has become so polarized that neither party works across the isle. The democrats don't want the republicans to make any progress what-so-ever and vice versa.

    Here's how bad it's become in recent years:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEcz...ature=emb_logo

    Every topic has become an us vs. them issue. This is true of health care, guns, immigration and almost every topic. When Bill Clinton funded the border wall it was a bipartisan endeavour. Now a border wall is racist. I don't want to discuss specific issues because everyone will say "our party is right and the other side can't even defend their position without lying." I know that for a fact that republicans say democrats tell far more lies. Democrats say that republicans are the ones that are much more likely to lie. Both sides are unaware of their own lies because no one researches what they firmly believe. A fish doesn't know he's in water.

    A Harvard study found there was no correlation between serving the will of the people and getting reelected. In other words, if our elected leaders do their jobs they are more likely to loose there job.

    This study is a fascinating read.

    https://www.hbs.edu/competitiveness/...ng-america.pdf

    It says "we found that Washington is making virtually no progress—and hasn’t made any in decades—in addressing any of these steps. Meanwhile, many other countries are getting better."

    "Today, however, our political system has become the major barrier to solving nearly every important challenge our nation needs to address."
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  2. #2
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    How about partisan media?

    Black Lives matter and Antifa have been burning businesses, looting stores, and assaulting people for how many months now and news agencies report on them as peaceful protests with buildings burning literally in the camera shot as they call them peaceful.

    Trump supporters ascend on the capitol building today it what was at least in the overwhelming majority a peaceful protest and the same news agencies call them every name in the book.
    From the only state in the USA where O'dumbass failed to carry a single county. :hail:

  3. #3
    Partisan media fans the flames of partisan politics. Mainstream news is very liberal but conservatives can always find media that they can agree with. There was a time when everyone got their news from 4 broadcast networks and newspapers. It was all much more unbiased than it is today. With the internet now everyone can find a news source that confirms their views. I think that's a big reason that we now have a big spread between the left and the right. Everyone can find sources that confirms their views.

  4. #4
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusaDave9 View Post
    Partisan media fans the flames of partisan politics. Mainstream news is very liberal but conservatives can always find media that they can agree with. There was a time when everyone got their news from 4 broadcast networks and newspapers. It was all much more unbiased than it is today. With the internet now everyone can find a news source that confirms their views. I think that's a big reason that we now have a big spread between the left and the right. Everyone can find sources that confirms their views.
    Yup.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by BusaDave9 View Post
    Partisan media fans the flames of partisan politics. Mainstream news is very liberal but conservatives can always find media that they can agree with. There was a time when everyone got their news from 4 broadcast networks and newspapers. It was all much more unbiased than it is today. With the internet now everyone can find a news source that confirms their views. I think that's a big reason that we now have a big spread between the left and the right. Everyone can find sources that confirms their views.

    With all due respect, Dave, it was not at all unbiased. I remember Walter Chronkite pontificating against the war in Viet Nam - and lying through his teeth while doing it.

    We just had no way to find out anything different.

    I was shocked to talk to friends when they returned and finding out how different reality was.
    Don't tell me violence doesn't solve anything.

    Look at Carthage.

  6. #6
    Now I'm about to say something everyone will disagree with except for the few centrists. I don't think either side lies. By that I mean I think both sides believes what they say. Of course there are extremists on both sides that lie and hope everyone believes the lies. But I am sure Cronkite believed every word he said against the war in Vietnam. I'm sure the mainstream media is convinced BLM is very peaceful except for rare exceptions. They believe this because they believe BLM has noble intentions. I think mainstream media truly believes they are centrists. In actuality they are far left and don't even know it.
    A conservative will consider all news to have a very liberal bias unless it actually has a conservative bias.
    A liberal will consider all news to have a very conservative bias unless it actually has a liberal bias.
    A fish doesn't know he's in water.
    Last edited by BusaDave9; January 6th, 2021 at 08:48 PM.

  7. #7
    Captain Radon Steve's Avatar
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    I am disgusted by the majority of Representatives and Senators of BOTH parties. They care about getting power and keeping power. Period. They don’t care about the country, the people, or the Constitution. This is not the country I joined the military to protect and defend. I fear for the future of the country and what we’ll leave for our kids and grandkids.

  8. #8
    The mainstream media is not in the news business, it is in the sales business, and is devastatingly effective.

    As for our government, I believe John Adams said it best:

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

    I believe that we are in what Christians call "the end times". I used to wonder why there didn't appear to be a country like the US in the Biblical descriptions of those times.

    I don't wonder anymore.

    Mark


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  9. #9
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    I fear for the future of the country and what we’ll leave for our kids and grandkids.
    Absolutely. I remember a discussion i had with my mom 25 or 30 years ago after both of my sisters were married and had kids and she asked me if i was ever going to get married and give her some grandchildren and i told her that no i wasn't because i wasn't cruel enough to bring children into what i could see the country turning into even way back then.

    I was visiting with one of my nieces a year or so ago after she was the preggers after her and her husband had been trying to get that way for a long time about how scary it would be to raise a child in todays world and she said that yes it was but, we have to have someone to fight against evil in the future as well.

    After she said that, i kind of changed my mind. Maybe i was being selfish instead of protective by refusing to have kids. I dunno...

  10. #10
    Clod Hopper's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Steve. All I see is excessive grandstanding of useless idiots, each trying to appear more virtuous than the next, all while blatantly lying to the camera. No one has true morals and stands by them. Even the repubs sway with the wind and will claim the righteous right only if they think it will garner them votes, but as soon as a new event occurs that is contradictory, boom they are aligned with the very ones who were just the wrong sort a minute ago.

    I have reached the point where I am ready for Trump to be gone. But all this crap about impeachment over his supposed incitement is way too far over the top. If he deserves impeachment for his statements, then all those liberals that encouraged rioting all last year need to be bounced out also. Nancy, Chuckie, all of them. As far as I am concerned, the people who stormed the capitol building are the ones that need to stand for what they did. Every single one.
    Proudly un-offended.

  11. #11
    Clod Hopper's Avatar
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    I am also uncomfortable with all the religious terms and descriptions for the capitol building and government structures. They are important buildings, no doubt, with lots of history, but still just a building. For Nancy to suddenly be so religious, quoting scripture and heralding saints, all while describing her work place as some sort of untouchable temple is disturbing.

  12. #12
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clod Hopper View Post
    I am also uncomfortable with all the religious terms and descriptions for the capitol building and government structures. They are important buildings, no doubt, with lots of history, but still just a building. For Nancy to suddenly be so religious, quoting scripture and heralding saints, all while describing her work place as some sort of untouchable temple is disturbing.
    It is disturbing but not surprising. People who desire power over other people are going to feel this way and its little surprise that they feel free saying things like this because they obviously believe they are better than common people. My guess is that they would most likely be appalled at the thought that us commoners would question them.

    This not only goes for politicians but actors, musicians, sports figures and anybody else who thinks the world gives two craps about their positions on issues but use their platform to promote their ideas.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    I am disgusted by the majority of Representatives and Senators of BOTH parties. They care about getting power and keeping power. Period. They don’t care about the country, the people, or the Constitution. This is not the country I joined the military to protect and defend. I fear for the future of the country and what we’ll leave for our kids and grandkids.
    I feel the same way
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
    John F. Kennedy

  14. #14
    We have all tried to teach our kids how to live with honor.

    We may have to show them how to die with honor.

  15. #15
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    I am so glad to see that the only thing our elected officials have to worry about right now is impeachment of Trump again or still when he has less than two weeks left in office anyway. It seems to be an excellent use of time and resources.

    Idiots...
    Last edited by creepycrawler; January 9th, 2021 at 06:01 AM.

  16. #16
    For me it is just using religion as a cudgel from both sides to get something and use it as their platform...
    Trump "grab em by the P" now is pro life. Holding a Bible upside down for a photo op....
    Biden uses his Catholicism for street creed....



    Quote Originally Posted by Clod Hopper View Post
    I am also uncomfortable with all the religious terms and descriptions for the capitol building and government structures. They are important buildings, no doubt, with lots of history, but still just a building. For Nancy to suddenly be so religious, quoting scripture and heralding saints, all while describing her work place as some sort of untouchable temple is disturbing.
    Last edited by 1BGDOG; January 9th, 2021 at 04:52 PM.
    ****ing coward.
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  17. #17
    Clod Hopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1BGDOG View Post
    For me it is just using religion as a cudgel from both sides to get something and use it as their platform...
    Trump "grab em by the P" now is pro life. Holding a Bible upside down for a photo op....
    Biden uses his Catholicism for street creed....
    I agree with you to a point. However, we both know Trump is a buffoon, so you cant really use him as an example in this matter. Secondly, the right has historically tied things to religion while the left has spearheaded the separation of church and state. Pelosi has held a very pointed "religion is bad" mantra for years, but now is talking like a nun about her house of worship where she fulfills the spiritual needs of the nation. Puke.

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Good points BUT the evangelicals LOVE Trump and what he is/was seen doing for their cause. So I guess it is more of THEM both using each other for their mutual needs...


    Quote Originally Posted by Clod Hopper View Post
    I agree with you to a point. However, we both know Trump is a buffoon, so you cant really use him as an example in this matter. Secondly, the right has historically tied things to religion while the left has spearheaded the separation of church and state. Pelosi has held a very pointed "religion is bad" mantra for years, but now is talking like a nun about her house of worship where she fulfills the spiritual needs of the nation. Puke.

  20. #20
    Clod Hopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1BGDOG View Post
    Good points BUT the evangelicals LOVE Trump and what he is/was seen doing for their cause. So I guess it is more of THEM both using each other for their mutual needs...
    Evangelicals, or any other religion for that matter, would never consider, view or talk about state buildings in the same way they would a church. Evangelicals dont prefer Trump for religious reasons, other than he isnt out to shut them down. Maybe I am out on a limb, but I anticipate the religious members of our citizenry will have the same response to Pelosi's antics as I do.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Clod Hopper View Post
    Evangelicals, or any other religion for that matter, would never consider, view or talk about state buildings in the same way they would a church. Evangelicals dont prefer Trump for religious reasons, other than he isnt out to shut them down. Maybe I am out on a limb, but I anticipate the religious members of our citizenry will have the same response to Pelosi's antics as I do.
    I speak for no one but myself, but I can tell you what this Christian thinks.

    First, I ranked Trump 17th of the 17 2016 Republican candidates, entirely because I viewed him as criminally inarticulate, incapable of selling fundamentally superior ideas to the populace, and certainly not capable of competing in that sales effort with the mightiest sales force ever devised by man - the dominant American mass media and their big tech enablers - who work for the side of destruction. It was largely the deliberate actions of that mass media that got him nominated, as they viewed him as the easiest candidate to beat, probably for the same reasons I did. What they didn't count on and, frankly, neither did I, was that he was a good bit smarter than they were with respect to how elections are won. Their rage-filled, shameless attempts to destroy him these last four years were fueled by his taming of their shrew, but enabled by his aforementioned inability to speak in coherent sentences. In the end, it was their superior sales skills, and relentless willingness to deploy them on every "newscast", that did him in. Had Trump been as articulate as the average 7th grade student council candidate, Joe Biden would have been the second coming of Walter Mondale, and the Dem's know it.

    I have no idea what's in the man's heart with respect to Christ, but I did like his actions and general views, at least up until the 2020 campaign. He certainly didn't revere the office of president like, for example, George W. Bush, but he did seem to believe in the Constitution, which is all this Christian asks. He got my 2016 vote because what we were really electing that year were supreme court justices, and federal judges across the country, and his picks were superb. The current impeachment frenzy is driven by a single stark fear: "What if he learns??" I think the chances of that are zero, but that's apparently too much of a chance for the left to take.

    As for Nancy Pelosi, I believe her to be a modern day Jezebel, and her reference to anything Biblical is abominable. She and her followers will win, but only for awhile.

    Lastly, buildings are buildings, whether secular, like the government buildings in Washington, or churches. It is not for me, nor for Pelosi, to call things of this earth sacred or holy. They are not.

    You asked. Sort of.

    Mark

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Clod Hopper View Post
    Secondly, the right has historically tied things to religion while the left has spearheaded the separation of church and state.
    Then I am proud to call Thomas Jefferson a member of my much-beloved "left" when he worked to "spearhead[ed] the separation of church and state":

    In an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, then-president Thomas Jefferson highlighted the “wall of separation” metaphor previously utilized by Roger Williams, who had referred to the “wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world” (Carter 1992, 116).

    Jefferson explained his understanding of the First Amendment’s religion clauses as reflecting the view of “the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall between church and State.”

    The Supreme Court first quoted Jefferson’s reference in Reynolds v. United States (1879), a case in which the Court rejected the claim that the First Amendment’s protection of religious liberty exempted members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from the prohibition of polygamy due to their religious belief (at that time, but no longer) in the duty of polygamy.
    See! That right thar is a perfect example of how the US gov't has over-stepped its authority in order to trample on the God-given rights of religion-sanctioned rapists in their pursuit of another little girl to "marry".

    I also totally remember all the times that Democrats have shuttered churches and told people that they can't be religious. Totally. Totally remember how laws were made that put Christianity in the crisis of being shut down. I'm scrolling through the listing of all those glorious laws right now on my AntifaTablet(tm) and just giggling. It's so enjoyable seeing Christians getting truly victimized by only being able to worship whenever and wherever they want as long as it's not on government property that they're not paying any taxes to as an organization.

    Gah that must SUCK to not have to face any sort of criminal liability for being a Christian in America and only have to rely on made-up persecution. It must be such a tiring and fear-ridden life.

    So much fear that I hear from conservatives about how drastically our lives have changed when Democrats/Left have been in power. I still haven't recovered from the times that Obama took all our guns and won't be able to handle how Antifa is going to shove socialism down the throats of hardworking Americans like farmers who take farm subsidies when Trump starts a trade war with China which is not even remotely anything like the redistribution of wealth at all which would make it socialism, right? Naw, not in our country that allows a system that sends far more tax dollars to traditionally-conservative states and areas of the country, tax dollars that come from liberal elite coastal states - from the people who actually know how to make money, not wait for gov't handouts like where a disproportionate amount of conservative voters live.

    But the drastic changes don't stop there - I remember all the times that Antifa committed the largest attack on Jews on American soil and when BLM plotted to kidnap the Governor of Michigan. Of course, who can forget when

    In its Homeland Threat Assessment released in October 2020, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security concluded that “racially and ethnically motivated violent extremists—specifically white supremacist extremists (WSEs)—will remain the most persistent and lethal threat in the Homeland.”
    Crap, totally forgot to change that "white supremacist extremists" to "Dr. Fauci".

    And it's been so cool to watch conservatives stand right-the-F-up all the time to recognize and severely, concretely, denounce these terrorists. You get to do that as much as conservatives let Muslims disavow Islamic terrorism. Guess what - in the same way that conservatives have previously painted large swaths of a group of people (like BLM, Antifa) with broad brushes, so that same broad brush is being used against conservatives in tying them to white supremacy and terrorism. Turns out conservatives can't hold themselves in higher regards than those they choose to denigrate, but it sure doesn't stop them from crying about it.

    But I mean we should totally let conservative voices get their truth-based message across and what's concerning is watching how the leftist tech companies founded in areas of the country where people are, like, educated are silencing conservative speech that has nothing to do with calls to violence or encouragement of terrorists that beat cops to death literally on the steps of the US Capitol - but I'm totally pumped that conservatives have been able to so quickly pivot to their own tech companies for the infrastructure and software to continue to broadcast their message because it's totally unlike conservatives to sit back and rest of the laurels of someone else's achievements, especially when conservatism embraces so strongly the free market to let bakers be able to deny having to perform services for people they disagree with (teh gays) and that exact same standard is applied to PRIVATE COMPANIES like Amazon, Facebook, Twitter when those companies don't want to put up with conservative idiocracy any more. Must suck when you tee up the ability for a private company to deny someone service and then... you get denied service because that company doesn't want to do business with you.

    I'm fine with how partisan things have gotten. If one thing has been made clear over the last four years, it's that when you give a large swath of the populace a louder bullhorn to say the quiet part out loud, they are dumb enough to say the quiet part out loud a lot louder. Now, it's satisfying to watch how scared these people are. "Omg I fear what this country is becoming!" Spare me your manufactured pearl-clutching fear and get back to watching Matlock.

    We'll be over here registering more people to vote the GOP out and take control of the House, the Oval Office, and now the Senate while you keep filing lawsuits to challenge an election that... no one is challenging, including all those Federal judges that team Trump seated.

    Hey - even Trump said it and it's been a tenet of conservative governing for a long time:

    “I don’t want everybody to vote,” Paul Weyrich, an influential conservative activist, said in 1980. “As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”
    You either believe that enabling more people to exercise their American right to vote is a good thing or you believe that somehow a massive fraud will be perpetrated as a result. If you're in the latter group, reality and facts won't change your mind and no one should waste their time trying to understand that point of view. We don't negotiate with terrorists. No one should. And if you're somehow still in support of the pieces of society that gave rise to the terrorism we now face where people with conservative ideals will murder police officers then you've given up your right to exist peacefully in the United States.

    - mike
    Last edited by sweater; January 13th, 2021 at 12:47 PM.

  23. #23
    One positive thing that has happened recently, the Dems and the left have discovered the evils of rioting. Maybe it won't take them months and months to denounce them next time.
    I started with nothing, and I've got most of it left.

  24. #24
    Wait aren't the satanist (a religion) always suing states over their religion not being shared on a state level?

    This made me chuckle:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...lorida-capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Clod Hopper View Post
    Evangelicals, or any other religion for that matter, would never consider, view or talk about state buildings in the same way they would a church. Evangelicals dont prefer Trump for religious reasons, other than he isnt out to shut them down. Maybe I am out on a limb, but I anticipate the religious members of our citizenry will have the same response to Pelosi's antics as I do.

  25. #25
    You may have missed this one months and months ago

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...olent-protests




    Quote Originally Posted by SamFromCO View Post
    One positive thing that has happened recently, the Dems and the left have discovered the evils of rioting. Maybe it won't take them months and months to denounce them next time.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SamFromCO View Post
    Maybe it won't take them months and months to denounce them next time.
    Oh - I get it. Now's the time where over here on the left we're supposed to act better than conservatives otherwise we're actually the really bad guys and total hypocrites, which totally deflects the spotlight from what conservative organizations do like murder police officers while storming government buildings while wearing Camp Auschwitz hoodies.

    Well, and I mean like at least we don't send our actual elected government officials to a riot where police get killed.

    No, there was a time when "the left" should work towards reconciliation and reaching across the aisle - and it was severely taken advantage of, to the point where an Air Force veteran

    uh

    terrorist showed up to zip tie politicians, possibly to get them out to the gallows they had built outside.

    No, really - anything that liberals have done up to this point is totally comparable to how far conservatives have taken things.

    I think that one of the best things to come out of this lately has been that I literally cannot find a Trump sign or flag anywhere near where I live after last week, as if people are going to forget who supported whom these last few years. It should remain a stain on anyone's conscience that they supported conservative reps.

    Let's face it, though - all conservatives had to do was to just be somewhat reasonable and respectful of other human beings by doing things like not referring to COVID as a "scamdemic" and by making the apparently near-impossible effort to breathe while wearing a mask in an attempt to be empathetic towards fellow human beings. We all know how well that's gone in conservative circles, about how empathy will apparently never trump one's own "freedoms" or some sh**. That's part of the reason so many people hate conservatives. For how utterly selfish they showed themselves to be as core human beings.

    Not holding my breath for anything that will benefit us all to come out of this. But a bunch of people are going to benefit and have better lives stemming from the repudiation of conservative ideals.

    - mike

  27. #27
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post
    Oh - I get it. Now's the time where over here on the left we're supposed to act better than conservatives otherwise we're actually the really bad guys and total hypocrites, which totally deflects the spotlight from what conservative organizations do like murder police officers while storming government buildings while wearing Camp Auschwitz hoodies.

    Well, and I mean like at least we don't send our actual elected government officials to a riot where police get killed.

    No, there was a time when "the left" should work towards reconciliation and reaching across the aisle - and it was severely taken advantage of, to the point where an Air Force veteran

    uh

    terrorist showed up to zip tie politicians, possibly to get them out to the gallows they had built outside.

    No, really - anything that liberals have done up to this point is totally comparable to how far conservatives have taken things.

    I think that one of the best things to come out of this lately has been that I literally cannot find a Trump sign or flag anywhere near where I live after last week, as if people are going to forget who supported whom these last few years. It should remain a stain on anyone's conscience that they supported conservative reps.

    Let's face it, though - all conservatives had to do was to just be somewhat reasonable and respectful of other human beings by doing things like not referring to COVID as a "scamdemic" and by making the apparently near-impossible effort to breathe while wearing a mask in an attempt to be empathetic towards fellow human beings. We all know how well that's gone in conservative circles, about how empathy will apparently never trump one's own "freedoms" or some sh**. That's part of the reason so many people hate conservatives. For how utterly selfish they showed themselves to be as core human beings.

    Not holding my breath for anything that will benefit us all to come out of this. But a bunch of people are going to benefit and have better lives stemming from the repudiation of conservative ideals.

    - mike
    Can you give me examples of how your life or the life of others has been worse for the last 4 years while Trump has been in office. I mean, we all know he is a racist because he wanted closed borders instead of going with completely open borders like a few other countries have over the last few years and we know that worked out well for them. Also, we certainly don't need to bring up how racist he is because of the lowest black unemployment in what? Forever?

    Again, Trump can say some stupid crap and if he had shut up on twitter a LOT of times, he would have been better off but i can't really think of much that he put in place that i don't agree with.

    Do you really think we should sign right back up for obomas nuclear deal? Although i am all for not polluting the earth, do you think that the green new deal might be just a little insane? If i remember correctly, you like guns. Do you agree with what Biden has proposed as far as that goes?

    Just things i would like to discuss and get the other sides viewpoints on.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    Can you give me examples of how your life or the life of others has been worse for the last 4 years while Trump has been in office.
    Well, I mean, there's that whole part about how Trump's administration enacted the policy of separating children from their parents on illegal entry to the southern border to the point where now they can't reunite families and over 500 children now.

    Like, I think we can all agree that little kids don't deserve that, no matter what their parents have done. But I'm not holding my breath on seeing eye-to-eye with conservatives on that one.

    I also can't wait until - in 8 days! - conservatives all of a sudden start to care about fiscal responsibility, ignoring that Trump helped put us in about $8 Trillion more debt, most definitely more than Obama did, guys. There's no way my kids can afford that.

    Or you can talk to the family of Brian Sicknick about how Trump did such an awesome job about decreasing tension at the Capitol last week before conservative terrorists killed him.

    Or like maybe how when Obama was president the FBI didn't put white supremacist terrorists on the same threat level as ISIS but now the FBI does - and how Trump has been completely silent about denouncing that demonstrated rise in white supremacy, even failing to condemn them during debates when asked directly. "Everyone knows it" is like his favorite phrase which I think is really funny considering that "everyone knows it" that the dude's afraid to piss off his base by roundly condemning white supremacists, which I think says a lot about a lot of millions who voted for him last fall. There seems to be a whole lot of bad stuff that conservatives are willing to give the guy a pass on. But?

    So awesome to see so many people still staunchly supporting him like the members of congress who backed down on disputing the election results only after their personal safety was at stake or the ten or so coherent GOP members who voted to impeach him for the second time today. Can't say I didn't have a beer or four hearing that news, folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    Do you really think we should sign right back up for obomas nuclear deal?
    Funny that it was called Obama's when the UN and EU all signed on to it, but again it pissed off Israel so of course the evangelicals are all up in arms. But I dislike both the evangelicals and Israel so I guess I'm all for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    Although i am all for not polluting the earth, do you think that the green new deal might be just a little insane?
    Well, throwing out something as being "insane" kinda stacks the cards against someone trying to defend it so I'mma go ahead and just say: conservatives are not friends of the environment as a whole, including denying global warming and humanity's effect on the planet, which I view as actually being insane because in a worst-case scenario where global warming ends up being totally fake but we've ended up with more sustainability and fewer toxins around and less pollution and healthier people and somehow that'd still be bad? Nah, I'm all for cramming some big-ass environmental standards down a whole mess of corporate throats and not giving into the sky-would-actually-fall fear of everyone losing their jobs.

    Oh, but I was super impressed by how Trump saved all those coal miners' jobs. Bang-up job there, Donnie.

    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    If i remember correctly, you like guns. Do you agree with what Biden has proposed as far as that goes?
    Love guns, totally got way more into them several years ago but got real concerned when Trump said
    “Or, Mike, take the firearms first and then go to court. Because that’s another system, because a lot of times, by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early. Like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida, he had a lot of firearms — they saw everything — to go to court would have taken a long time, so you could do exactly what you’re saying, but take the guns first, go through due process second.”
    ...soooooo again I had to stock up on ammo and buy a bunch of new stuff because of how badly I got screwed when all the stuff that conservatives were telling me about Obama coming for all my guns came totally true and I had to hand everything over to the local DNC chapter or lose my license to grow my own kale.

    Also, I'm not a stupid one-issue voter on guns because I'm able to see beyond my own self interests and look at what might be better for the country as a whole, maybe. But mostly it's because all the stuff that conservatives have told me to be afraid of around guns haven't really come to fruition, even when Obama and the Dems owned both houses and the WH. When I think of it, actually the most things I'm supposed to be afraid of have come from suggestions from conservatives and not liberals. Huh. So much fear in those people.

    - mike
    Last edited by sweater; January 13th, 2021 at 10:56 PM.

  29. #29
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    We all have our hills to die on I guess.

  30. #30
    Mine will not be Capitol Hill... see what I did there??!!

    Sweater remember when HPA passed and silencers became attainable for all without a tax and 1 year wait?
    Oh... couldn't pass under a R' controlled gov... wild times. It's like they say one thing but actually do another thing.
    Like the NRA being corrupt as fawk... wild.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clod Hopper View Post
    We all have our hills to die on I guess.
    Last edited by 1BGDOG; January 14th, 2021 at 07:30 PM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post
    Well, I mean, there's that whole part about how Trump's administration enacted the policy of separating children from their parents on illegal entry to the southern border to the point where now they can't reunite families and over 500 children now.

    Like, I think we can all agree that little kids don't deserve that, no matter what their parents have done. But I'm not holding my breath on seeing eye-to-eye with conservatives on that one.

    I also can't wait until - in 8 days! - conservatives all of a sudden start to care about fiscal responsibility, ignoring that Trump helped put us in about $8 Trillion more debt, most definitely more than Obama did, guys. There's no way my kids can afford that.

    Or you can talk to the family of Brian Sicknick about how Trump did such an awesome job about decreasing tension at the Capitol last week before conservative terrorists killed him.

    Or like maybe how when Obama was president the FBI didn't put white supremacist terrorists on the same threat level as ISIS but now the FBI does - and how Trump has been completely silent about denouncing that demonstrated rise in white supremacy, even failing to condemn them during debates when asked directly. "Everyone knows it" is like his favorite phrase which I think is really funny considering that "everyone knows it" that the dude's afraid to piss off his base by roundly condemning white supremacists, which I think says a lot about a lot of millions who voted for him last fall. There seems to be a whole lot of bad stuff that conservatives are willing to give the guy a pass on. But?

    So awesome to see so many people still staunchly supporting him like the members of congress who backed down on disputing the election results only after their personal safety was at stake or the ten or so coherent GOP members who voted to impeach him for the second time today. Can't say I didn't have a beer or four hearing that news, folks.
    These are awesome examples. To begin with, the 500 children who were stuck without being reunited with their parents were or are poor children for the most part kids who were caught being snuck into the US by human traffickers and were not being snuck in with their parents so they dont have a good way to find out who their parents even are but dont let facts get in your way. Oh BTW, its sad but hilarious at the same time that more than one democrat law maker attempted to mock the fact that coyotes had carried most of these children across the border stating on TV that there was no was a dog could carry a kid all the way across the border. Oh my God, these idiots are ruling our country now.

    You also mentioned that Trump refused to denounce white supremacy which is completely false. A simple youtube search will show that he did and has on more than one occasion. How many times does he have to do it in order for it to count?

    Anyway, back to the part of my question that you convienienantly forgot to answer. How has your life gone downhill because of four years of Trump?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post


    Funny that it was called Obama's when the UN and EU all signed on to it, but again it pissed off Israel so of course the evangelicals are all up in arms. But I dislike both the evangelicals and Israel so I guess I'm all for it?
    Thats cool. Never mind the millions of dollars Obama handed them or the fact tha it made sure that they could continue to making nukes. As long as it screws anyone who believes in God.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post


    Well, throwing out something as being "insane" kinda stacks the cards against someone trying to defend it so I'mma go ahead and just say: conservatives are not friends of the environment as a whole, including denying global warming and humanity's effect on the planet, which I view as actually being insane because in a worst-case scenario where global warming ends up being totally fake but we've ended up with more sustainability and fewer toxins around and less pollution and healthier people and somehow that'd still be bad? Nah, I'm all for cramming some big-ass environmental standards down a whole mess of corporate throats and not giving into the sky-would-actually-fall fear of everyone losing their jobs.

    Oh, but I was super impressed by how Trump saved all those coal miners' jobs. Bang-up job there, Donnie.
    I don't know that you are looking at all of the implications but thank God that it will at least keep cows from farting.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post
    Love guns, totally got way more into them several years ago but got real concerned when Trump said

    ...soooooo again I had to stock up on ammo and buy a bunch of new stuff because of how badly I got screwed when all the stuff that conservatives were telling me about Obama coming for all my guns came totally true and I had to hand everything over to the local DNC chapter or lose my license to grow my own kale.

    Also, I'm not a stupid one-issue voter on guns because I'm able to see beyond my own self interests and look at what might be better for the country as a whole, maybe. But mostly it's because all the stuff that conservatives have told me to be afraid of around guns haven't really come to fruition, even when Obama and the Dems owned both houses and the WH. When I think of it, actually the most things I'm supposed to be afraid of have come from suggestions from conservatives and not liberals. Huh. So much fear in those people.
    Great answer once again that totally doesn't answer the question that i asked.....again.

    The question was how do you feel about Bidens new gun laws that he plans to implement. They are no secret as they are on his web page. If you have trouble finding it, i will copy and paste it for you.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    You also mentioned that Trump refused to denounce white supremacy which is completely false.
    I just remember that debate. The one where he was asked, point black, to denounce white supremacy. I know you're going to see that as him having done it, whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    As long as it screws anyone who believes in God.
    Those are 100% your words, not mine. If you're trying to attribute those words "as long as it screws anyone who believe in God" to me, shame on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    how do you feel about Bidens new gun laws that he plans to implement.
    Pretty much hate them across the board. And I see little chance of a lot of them passing. So I took that into account when deciding to cast my vote, and my feelings about guns simply could not overrule all of the other complicated non-single-issue-voter things going through my head to get me to vote for anyone other than Biden.

    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    How has your life gone downhill because of four years of Trump?
    Isn't that the. most. conservative. point of view ever. Let's cut the light chit-chat about how Trump has affected people around me, across the country from me, and get to how conservatives think:

    How has it personally affected you, Mr. Sweater.

    I could go into some examples of friendships and colleague relationships ended over how those people chose to show their support for Trump, mostly around racism. I've watched some people that used to be close scream the most in support of Trump and fall on their faces socially and financially the hardest. The leftists and liberals that I know, and I, have kept our heads down and let this sh** burn out while focusing on our families and careers.

    But mentally it's been a slog. I'm not even remotely as euphoric as I was when Obama won, I think because I just watched a bunch of conservative, right-wing terrorists kill a bunch of people in the name of a pack of lies and haven't seen a large repudiation of those people from conservatives around me. Conservatives own what was done last week, that's your cross to bear. Good luck with that.

    - mike

  36. #36
    Somebody call the nut house, we have located the escapee
    " A mans rights rest in three boxes; the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box" Fredrick Douglass
    "The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them" George Orwell

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post
    I just watched a bunch of conservative, right-wing terrorists kill a bunch of people...
    When did this happen? I guess i missed it.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post
    Those are 100% your words, not mine. If you're trying to attribute those words "as long as it screws anyone who believe in God" to me, shame on you.
    I apologize for putting words in your mouth. I guess i completely misunderstood what you were meaning when you said, and i quote, " But I dislike both the evangelicals and Israel so I guess I'm all for it".

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweater View Post
    I could go into some examples of friendships and colleague relationships ended over how those people chose to show their support for Trump, mostly around racism. I've watched some people that used to be close scream the most in support of Trump and fall on their faces socially and financially the hardest. The leftists and liberals that I know, and I, have kept our heads down and let this sh** burn out while focusing on our families and careers.

    But mentally it's been a slog. I'm not even remotely as euphoric as I was when Obama won...

    Well that is just terrible. I am sorry that you and your liberal friends were forced to focus on your hatred for Trump and racism that you made up in your own minds for four years instead of enjoying the great economy and no wars and the lowest unemployment among blacks in forever etc.

  40. #40
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    From Fox News - Left-wing activist charged in Capitol riot after saying he was just there to 'document'
    Left-wing activist charged in Capitol riot after saying he was just there to 'document'

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lef...n-capitol-riot

    I never saw this coming.

    I'll not be holding my breath while waiting for CNN or Politico or the Washington Post to report this today.
    Last edited by creepycrawler; January 15th, 2021 at 06:14 AM.

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