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  1. #1

    Ford 6.0 stutter

    Hi all, my new to me 2004 6.0L (automatic) started acting like it's hitting a rev limiter at 2200rpm. The first time it happened I was accelerating slowly and backed off the throttle before accelerating through again. On my way home it was constant rather than intermittent. As this happens there is white smoke (not steam) coming out the exhaust.



    So, when it is stalling out the boost is at about 7PSI. At idle it's at .5PSI and at 3000 RPM in park it's 5PSI.

    FICM voltage is 47.5 while cranking and 48-48.5 while running
    ICV is .86 at idle and 1.5-1.8 while driving
    ECT and EOT are within 4-8 degrees at 65mph


    The engine has about 120k miles on it with about 2k mi on:

    Head studs,
    HPOP,
    Stand pipes and dummy plugs,
    Bullet proof EGR cooler,
    Injectors,
    Rear engine cover and main seal.

    It'll be a couple days before I can look into things. Does this seem like a stuck VGT? The boost numbers seem to indicate there is a turbo issue
    Last edited by Wulf; December 23rd, 2018 at 01:14 PM.
    break, fix, repeat

  2. #2
    There are no codes being thrown

  3. #3
    If you haven't already, go here and register: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum107/

    Lots of good reading there, especially in the Tech Folder up at the top of that page.

    Let me know when you get back from GJ.
    (Well, I'm takin' my time) I'm just movin' along
    You'll forget about me after I've been gone
    (And I take what I find) I don't want no more It's just outside of your front door

  4. #4
    The Original Opie-Gone-Bad!!! Aaron's Avatar
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    Don't know anything about the 6.0's, but it sounds like you aren't getting enough fuel. So that could be lots of things. Start small and with what was last touched. Bill is correct, join a 6.0 specific forum and do a little digging. How many miles have you put on it since you bought it?

  5. #5
    I appreciate the quick responses. I posted on powerstroke.org yesterday but haven't gotten any responses. I've put about 150 miles on it since Wednesday and the only thing I've done was fill up the tank. After the first incident I put 1/3 bottle seafoam and 1/4 quart of clean ATF in it and topped off the tank and was going to give it some good highway pulls on it but never made it that far

  6. #6
    I hesitate to mention this since I'm not a believer in "magic" fixes, but this stuff has almost eliminated my stiction issues: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=3FJAPPXH97DRX

    I use 16 oz with every oil change. Haven't used the fuel additive - don't feel like I need it in my truck.

    Have you drained the HFCM down on the frame rail?


    ETA - You've got 34 views already. Be patient. The right folks will be along directly. It's Sunday afternoon....
    Last edited by Willie G; December 23rd, 2018 at 03:59 PM.

  7. #7
    Responses coming in now....

  8. #8
    tjjared413's Avatar
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    Iíll see what my 6.0 tech has to say on Wednesday...

    Has the truck sat some? I ask because we see the turbo build rust on the vgts and will not let them boost...
    rig- 04 TJ for going to the malls and tow pig- 15 F350

  9. #9
    J Kimmel's Avatar
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    cold start test your injectors might be one going south
    The Car Guy

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie G View Post
    I hesitate to mention this since I'm not a believer in "magic" fixes, but this stuff has almost eliminated my stiction issues: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=3FJAPPXH97DRX

    I use 16 oz with every oil change. Haven't used the fuel additive - don't feel like I need it in my truck.

    Have you drained the HFCM down on the frame rail?


    ETA - You've got 34 views already. Be patient. The right folks will be along directly. It's Sunday afternoon....
    Draining the HFCM sounds like a good plan, I wonder if I got a bum tank of fuel so doing that and changing the filters couldn't hurt.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by J Kimmel View Post
    cold start test your injectors might be one going south
    Is that just a regular cold start? The truck has no issue starting and idles evenly without losing or blowing smoke like a stuck injector

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tjjared413 View Post
    Iíll see what my 6.0 tech has to say on Wednesday...

    Has the truck sat some? I ask because we see the turbo build rust on the vgts and will not let them boost...
    Yeah, the turbo came off a wrecked truck that was probably sitting so I won't be surprised if I have to take it apart and clean the vanes

  13. #13
    J Kimmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
    Is that just a regular cold start? The truck has no issue starting and idles evenly without losing or blowing smoke like a stuck injector
    yes that is when you can get a good reading on who is doing what

    might not be stuck open or closed, but stuttering occasionally with smoke sounds like one having an issue

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by J Kimmel View Post
    yes that is when you can get a good reading on who is doing what

    might not be stuck open or closed, but stuttering occasionally with smoke sounds like one having an issue
    I'll record a cold start and cold idle when I can, is there anything specific I should be looking/listening for that I may have missed?

  15. #15
    You'll probably want your own copy of Forscan ( https://en.freedownloadmanager.org/W...Scan-FREE.html )

    I have an OBD II dongle you can use.

    Forscan will be invaluable in the cold start test and other tests you may need to run.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie G View Post
    You'll probably want your own copy of Forscan ( https://en.freedownloadmanager.org/W...Scan-FREE.html )

    I have an OBD II dongle you can use.
    Forscan will be invaluable in the cold start test and other tests you may need to run.
    Cool, I will give it a download. I have a Bluetooth one but if it doesn't work with forscan I'll let you know

    I have the Torque pro app so I can log some info and upload the logs as well

  17. #17
    tjjared413's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
    Yeah, the turbo came off a wrecked truck that was probably sitting so I won't be surprised if I have to take it apart and clean the vanes
    Talk to my 6.0 guy itís a vgt or egr thatís sticking

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tjjared413 View Post
    Talk to my 6.0 guy itís a vgt or egr thatís sticking
    Thanks for checking with him I cleaned the EGR, which was pretty sooted and seemed to be stuck partially open but it didn't solve the issue on a short drive after warming up.

    I did a cold start and logged a bunch of stuff with Torque pro on the drive that seems to indicate the turbo may be ok:

    VGT Duty cycle from 36-85
    Boost from 1-14 PSI

    I am going to try checking the fuel pressure next.

  19. #19
    tjjared413's Avatar
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    Any updates?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tjjared413 View Post
    Any updates?

    Yeah, thought I had it fixed with the EGR. I put 30 miles on it and it was running better than ever, but still seems to be having the issue. i checked fuel pressure and it was 50psi at idle and 45 at WOT, which is the minimum. i did the blue spring update which pumped the fuel pressure up to 68 at idle and 58ish at WOT and it quieted the engine down noticeably.

    That said, i'm still having the issue, when it happened earlier the gauge was showing 65psi at 2000 rpm and 40mp so I don't think it's related to fueling. I wish there was an easy way to check for a stuck VGT. I have also been told it could be a clogged exhaust back pressure sensor or bad IPR so I'll have to look into those as well

  21. #21
    Actually throwing some codes now but no CEL on dash.

    P0113
    P0407
    P0488
    P1000

  22. #22
    I think stuck VGT might be right, I just took a test drive and even when I get on it I never saw more than 11ish psi of boost according to Torque

  23. #23
    If your not getting the VGT code, a good cleaning of the turbo and unison ring may do the trick.

    If I can do it, you can too.

  24. #24
    tjjared413's Avatar
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    The VGTs get rusted not sure if they can be cleaned or not but pulling the turbo maybe your best bet to check and maybe clean it

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by tjjared413 View Post
    The VGTs get rusted not sure if they can be cleaned or not but pulling the turbo maybe your best bet to check and maybe clean it
    Yeah, I'll have to pull it. Given how dirty the EGR was I wouldn't be surprised if the vanes are sooted stuck too.

  26. #26
    I pulled the turbo out and it seems likely that it was sticking given there is a silhouette of the vanes lmao....So, there was 1 bolt holding the turbo to the pedastal and the pedastal was not bolted in at all, truck is an 04 and PO swapped parts from an 04 donor truck...I'm guessing one of which was 03-04 and one was 04.5+. How do I figure out what's what so I can bolt my turbo in properly? Truck is also leaking oil down the passenger side but it seems likely it's just the turbo drain since it's probably flopping around while driving









  27. #27
    It's the old "I got it back together, so why do I have parts left over?"

    Your pedestal looks just like my 05...so maybe they didn't change that part during the redesign from 03?

    You can use your trucks VIN to order parts on most Ford dealer websites - I have found good service from Autonation Ford in White Bear Lake,MN.

  28. #28
    Turbo must match the pedistal otherwise they swap year to year. Lots of guys swap early 03 turbos and pedistals on later trucks to get the super loud "6.0 whistle". Most of the trucks that come in only have one or two bolts holding the turbo to the pedistal. They fall out all the time and I find them in the valley. Bullet proof sells titainum bolts that don't loosen up. Missing pedistal hold down bolts is just from a lazy previous owner.

    From the pics that turbo is trash. The vanes are beat to crap and fins on the exhaust wheel also look to be damaged on the edge. I'd be looking for a turbo. You didn't post a pic of the unison ring. At the very least replace that (they're cheap) and clean everything up so the vanes move easy in the housing/unison ring.

    Set the pedistal on the turbo with everything off the truck and make sure the 3 mounting bolts line up.

    Also the amount of black soot on the pedistal looks like an exhaust leak of some kind?

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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by broncocrawler View Post
    Turbo must match the pedistal otherwise they swap year to year. Lots of guys swap early 03 turbos and pedistals on later trucks to get the super loud "6.0 whistle". Most of the trucks that come in only have one or two bolts holding the turbo to the pedistal. They fall out all the time and I find them in the valley. Bullet proof sells titainum bolts that don't loosen up. Missing pedistal hold down bolts is just from a lazy previous owner.

    From the pics that turbo is trash. The vanes are beat to crap and fins on the exhaust wheel also look to be damaged on the edge. I'd be looking for a turbo. You didn't post a pic of the unison ring. At the very least replace that (they're cheap) and clean everything up so the vanes move easy in the housing/unison ring.

    Set the pedistal on the turbo with everything off the truck and make sure the 3 mounting bolts line up.

    Also the amount of black soot on the pedistal looks like an exhaust leak of some kind?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

    Thanks for the input. The unison ring actually looked like new and didn't even have much soot on it, which follows with the PO's story that the turbo was gone through 2k miles ago...but yeah, looks like the vanes and wheels needed work and there is definitely slop in the bearings as well.

    After pricing out the cost of rebuilding it myself or paying for a rebuild, buying a reman (no guarantee that they do anything more than the bare minimum), and buying a new turbo I ordered a new one from Riffraff and it should come next week.

    It seems like one or both exhaust connections were leaking, which would explain the soot and erratic turbo performance. I bought a turbo install kit with o rings and bolts and found that the bolts PO used to hold the turbo to the pedestal are actually the pedestal bolts; I'll use them to secure the pedestal since I have proper turbo bolts.

  30. #30
    cheftyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
    Thanks for the input. The unison ring actually looked like new and didn't even have much soot on it, which follows with the PO's story that the turbo was gone through 2k miles ago...but yeah, looks like the vanes and wheels needed work and there is definitely slop in the bearings as well.

    After pricing out the cost of rebuilding it myself or paying for a rebuild, buying a reman (no guarantee that they do anything more than the bare minimum), and buying a new turbo I ordered a new one from Riffraff and it should come next week.

    It seems like one or both exhaust connections were leaking, which would explain the soot and erratic turbo performance. I bought a turbo install kit with o rings and bolts and found that the bolts PO used to hold the turbo to the pedestal are actually the pedestal bolts; I'll use them to secure the pedestal since I have proper turbo bolts.
    Stuff like what the PO did make me hate people more and more.
    "Blow and Hookers can change the World. - Gags
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    MJ has no lethal dose. You might crawl under your couch and eat M&M's all day if you get too high, but it ain't gonna kill you.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by cheftyler View Post
    Stuff like what the PO did make me hate people more and more.
    Yeah, it is kind of shitty. I bought the truck figuring it would need some work so that helps soothe a little bit :doh:

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    Last edited by Wulf; January 10th, 2019 at 03:04 PM.

  32. #32
    Like I told you pre-purchase, even if you put another $10k in it you've gotten a deal and you have a truck that will last you.

  33. #33
    The Original Opie-Gone-Bad!!! Aaron's Avatar
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    Oooo. New upgraded turbo! Sux you had to replace, but long term I think you will be happy

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheftyler View Post
    Stuff like what the PO did make me hate people more and more.
    This!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
    After pricing out the cost of rebuilding it myself or paying for a rebuild, buying a reman (no guarantee that they do anything more than the bare minimum), and buying a new turbo I ordered a new one from Riffraff and it should come next week.
    A true reman should be all needed to get it back to manufacturers specs (new bearings, etc) nearing the same as brand new. Rebuild is a minimum effort job. But as you point out, there's no guaranteeing the reman was truly a reman vs minimum effort job so good call to just get-r-done with a new one.

    Also, doesn't look like PO went through the turbo at all, but just looked at it and called it good enough...half assed people throwing around incorrect words and impressions bring the suck...I can tolerate a stupid person better than a deceptive one....starting to rant about shit like that so better stop while I'm behind where I could take it.

  36. #36
    My dad just got T-boned in his pristine under 100K 6.0. He says the mechanics get excited when he brings it in for service. 😂

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie G View Post
    Like I told you pre-purchase, even if you put another $10k in it you've gotten a deal and you have a truck that will last you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colo.TJ View Post
    My dad just got T-boned in his pristine under 100K 6.0. He says the mechanics get excited when he brings it in for service. 😂
    That's the plan. The diagnostic fees and labor on parts is the real killer on these trucks, hopefully I can save a lot by doing as much as I possibly can myself.

    It's reassuring to know that I should be starting from a solid platform since the injectors aren't leaking, EGR cooler has been done, head studs have been done, new turbo... I will probably have to replace the factory plastic CAC up pipe but hopefully nothing else major.

    Quote Originally Posted by ASCTLC View Post
    A true reman should be all needed to get it back to manufacturers specs (new bearings, etc) nearing the same as brand new. Rebuild is a minimum effort job. But as you point out, there's no guaranteeing the reman was truly a reman vs minimum effort job so good call to just get-r-done with a new one.

    Also, doesn't look like PO went through the turbo at all, but just looked at it and called it good enough...half assed people throwing around incorrect words and impressions bring the suck...I can tolerate a stupid person better than a deceptive one....starting to rant about shit like that so better stop while I'm behind where I could take it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ASCTLC View Post
    This!
    Just enough to get it out the door


    I could have done the bearings but it starts to get expensive when you include the cost of new vanes, new wheels, unison ring, VGT solenoid...

  38. #38
    On the CAC up pipe, get the 2003 aluminum one - much better!

    http://www.ficmrepair.com/index.cfm/...rod/prd245.htm

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie G View Post
    On the CAC up pipe, get the 2003 aluminum one - much better!

    http://www.ficmrepair.com/index.cfm/...rod/prd245.htm
    Been eyeing them. Was hoping to find a used one and buy some new boots from riff Raff.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Colo.TJ View Post
    My dad just got T-boned in his pristine under 100K 6.0. He says the mechanics get excited when he brings it in for service. 😂
    Insurance totaled out his truck. They offered him $15K or $11600 and he can keep the truck, which is the estimate to fix it. He's keeping the truck.

    Also, 130,000 miles on it. Said there was no frame damage, so I think he's GTG w/ taking the lower amount and keeping the truck. $15K wouldn't put a dent in the down payment on a new F250 crew cab/diesel.

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