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Thread: FL shooting

  1. #1

    FL shooting

    So as more comes out about this tragedy I can't help but wonder if there is something more sinister at work here.

    Is this a designed false flag event?

    MK Ultra project?

    What say ye CO4x4?
    "The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them" George Orwell

  2. #2
    DaleD's Avatar
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    Not sure where you are going here but, I will say if it ends up being true that up to 4 "SWORN" in Deputy's cowered outside while they heard shots will piss me off to no end..

    You take an oath to do a very important job but know deep inside you probably can't "Don't apply for the FAWKIN JOB" might just prove there are a a lot of LEO who are power hungry pussies..

    Don't get me wrong... I know a lot of CSPD, CSFD and AMR personnel who would take a bullet for a kid so this is by far an anti LEO post.

  3. #3
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Although i have no doubt that Russia would do anything they could to get the USA to disarm the citizens, I am not into conspiracy theories and it would take some pretty good evidence to convince me otherwise.

    In my opinion, what we have here is just another troubled and or selfish punk ass kid combined with an inept FBI that once again failed to follow up on tips. Let me show my shocked face here that a government agency sucked at doing its job.

    As far as the cops who didn't enter after they arrived on scene goes, i am not quite ready to convict them because i dont know what the radio traffic was. Were they told to hang out and let SWAT enter first? I dunno. I would like to think that i would say screw it and just would have gone in dispite orders to save kids at the risk of getting fired. I just dont have enough information to 100% convict them yet.

    The one person who i will just go ahead and say was a flatout puss was the armed officer stationed at the school who ran to the building but didn't go in before any of the other popo showed up on scene. That was what he was there for and when he was needed, he folded like a cheap lawn chair.
    From the only state in the USA where O'dumbass failed to carry a single county. :hail:

  4. #4
    BumperMan's Avatar
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    I try to stay away from conspiracies as well but... this is very conveniently timed. But I’m not going down that rabbit trail. The officers I wasn’t there so
    I won’t judge them personally. However on a professional level I will judge the shit out of them. None of us know how we will respond when the SHTF until it does. I will give anyone a few seconds of hesitation but anything over a minute and they need to look for work elsewhere.

  5. #5
    Real Estate Flippa Rex Ashton's Avatar
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    A bunch of Greenwood Village police were all over Cherry Creek High School yesterday since someone found the message in a bathroom stall on Thursday that said "I will shoot up the school 2-23"

  6. #6
    It definitely has a fishy smell to it.

    The cops who waited outside, they will have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they would have likely at least saved several lives had they gone in and engaged the shooter. To me, that's enough punishment. It will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

    I didn't know about CCHS Rex . . . my sister is a math teacher there. I have to give her credit too, she was a freshman at Arapahoe when Columbine happened, then the whole Arapahoe thing hits so close to home, she has handled it all pretty well. She didn't have the experience with firearms growing up that I did, and she knew that she needed to know more. Her biggest concern was finding a gun on campus and not knowing what to do with it, so we've gone over gun safety, basic operation, she's even got her CCW permit now. She was terrified of guns, but knew that was primarily due to her inexperience with them and she has been working to fix that. She still doesn't own one, but she is at least familiar enough with them to safely handle one if she were to come across it.

    As for preventing this type of stuff going forward, there's no easy answer, and it will have to be a multi-pronged approach. There are some deep societal issues that lead kids to want to do this kind of stuff, and banning guns simply will not stop these kids from wanting to hurt other people.
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  7. #7
    I am not a conspiracy theorist either but lots of things here seem out of place. It has a operation fast and furious feel to it.

    The people from the CNN event are being unmasked as scripted and hand picked, possibly even actors

    The political allies of the sheriff are all rabid anti 2nd

    A large number of resources that talked about this leading up to the event and immediately after have been scrubbed from the internet, why?

  8. #8
    There is too much happening, with too many "familiar faces" (same faces at similar events) for this too be "just another troubled person acting out".

    There is an active movement to either hamstring, or completely neuter, the second amendment.

    As for the School Resource Officer not entering the school, despite the desire many have to believe that LEO are here to defend us mere citizens, they are not required to. The Supreme Court has been very clear about this. The fact that he cowardly waited while teens were shot is disgusting.
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  9. #9
    Don S's Avatar
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    ..

    In my humble opinion when one looks at all the factors the AR-15 did not kill those kids. But there is a lot of people who paid no attention to the many warning signs. If I was one of a couple of the people that gave warnings I'd be yelling about it… However there are millions of deaf ears out there.

    I don't think happy kids shoot up schools.. Don S..
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  10. #10
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant H. View Post
    The fact that he cowardly waited while teens were shot is disgusting.
    I almost hate to say this because i know and have known several officers that are or were awesome at their jobs and i dont doubt for a second that they would have rushed into any circumstance regardless of danger to protect innocence.

    Sadly, i also have known cops who became cops because they were pussys earlier in life and figure that a badge will help them get revenge on the "mean people" who they feel did them some kind of injustice at one time or another.

    I dont mean to try to sound like a badass of any sort but i am pretty sure that had i been there that i would have gone in with just my CC gun and tried to do something. The campus cop that WAS there and did nothing should be strung up by his nuts. Yet instead of that, the cops are having to guard his house to keep people from killing him for being a pussy.

  11. #11
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don S View Post
    ..But there is a lot of people who paid no attention to the many warning signs.
    This was covered in post #3. See the part where the FBI or pretty much any other alphabet of the government sucks at doing their jobs.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by creepycrawler View Post
    I almost hate to say this because i know and have known several officers that are or were awesome at their jobs and i dont doubt for a second that they would have rushed into any circumstance regardless of danger to protect innocence.

    Sadly, i also have known cops who became cops because they were pussys earlier in life and figure that a badge will help them get revenge on the "mean people" who they feel did them some kind of injustice at one time or another.

    I dont mean to try to sound like a badass of any sort but i am pretty sure that had i been there that i would have gone in with just my CC gun and tried to do something. The campus cop that WAS there and did nothing should be strung up by his nuts. Yet instead of that, the cops are having to guard his house to keep people from killing him for being a pussy.
    My comment is in no way meant to disparage ALL cops, just this pussy in particular.

    I know many LEO, and as you said, there are quite a few that would have willingly laid down their lives to try and stop the POS in FL. Unfortunately, that is not true of all cops, and there are some that are worse than just wanting revenge.

    I think many people that hold CCW permits and handguns are in the same position as you. I think many of us would have at least tried something.

  13. #13
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant H. View Post
    I think many people that hold CCW permits and handguns are in the same position as you. I think many of us would have at least tried something.
    I certainly hope so. As stated, i can stand here and say i would have gone in and while i am 99.9% sure i would have, i havent been presented with that situation so i cant say, nor can anyone say for sure what they would have done.

  14. #14
    I cant help but imagine how differently this would have turned out if the coach who used his body to shield students, a gun owner, had the option of drawing his legal CC and returning fire.

  15. #15
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahfecks View Post
    I cant help but imagine how differently this would have turned out if the coach who used his body to shield students, a gun owner, had the option of drawing his legal CC and returning fire.
    Yup.

  16. #16
    vb's Avatar
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    Its perty wild to be unarmed and have a gun pointed in your face.

  17. #17
    DaleD's Avatar
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    The Broward County’s sheriff is looking like a real class act.....

  18. #18
    https://www.americanthinker.com/art....rd_county.html
    +
    https://constitution.com/school-shoo...t-believe-set/
    =
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/h....rticle/2650087


    the chicken shat school resource officer received a commendation in 2016 for counseling sheetbag as part of an "education not incarceration" campaign in spite of the fact that as a student Sheetbag was bringing bullets and knives to school and making threats of a shooting. Chicken shat also refused to cooperate in an investigation alleging sheetbag was making repeated threats to shoot up the school

    This is a full blown set up.....hide your powder

  19. #19
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahfecks View Post
    https://www.americanthinker.com/art....rd_county.html
    +
    https://constitution.com/school-shoo...t-believe-set/
    =
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/h....rticle/2650087


    the chicken shat school resource officer received a commendation in 2016 for counseling sheetbag as part of an "education not incarceration" campaign in spite of the fact that as a student Sheetbag was bringing bullets and knives to school and making threats of a shooting. Chicken shat also refused to cooperate in an investigation alleging sheetbag was making repeated threats to shoot up the school

    This is a full blown set up.....hide your powder
    Ok, so the first two links are out there with conspiracy. Either way, the dumbass laws that the dumbass dems have proposed are basically the same as what chickenfawker passed a few years ago and apparently, you approve of them by your constant defense of Co.

    Ya might want to look into your sanity.

  20. #20
    I would encourage you to go read/reread the first two articles, no conspiracies, the contracts between the schools, cops, and NAACP are all public record.

    Because Lickenpooper passed the laws doesn't mean I agree with them, or that I don't vote for people who will change them

    What is being proposed goes way beyond the laws here in CO and they are proposing it for OK the same as CO, should scare the hell out of people. The important part of gun control is control

  21. #21
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahfecks View Post
    I would encourage you to go read/reread the first two articles, no conspiracies, the contracts between the schools, cops, and NAACP are all public record.

    Because Lickenpooper passed the laws doesn't mean I agree with them, or that I don't vote for people who will change them

    What is being proposed goes way beyond the laws here in CO and they are proposing it for OK the same as CO, should scare the hell out of people. The important part of gun control is control
    If i thought what they were proposing had a chance in hell of passing, i would be scared. It doesn't so i am not.

  22. #22
    As it stands, an 18-20 year old cannot buy a beer, but can buy a rifle. Clearly, one of those doesn't make sense. The resolution isn't more specific "can't buy" laws, it's to admit that today's 18-20 year olds are not, in any sense, adult, and ought not be granted adult privileges. Advancing this idea would send the left into a frenzy, as that age group is easily swayed by their emotionally driven nonsense, and are a reliable voting block for them. It would also add a measure of realism to the current "debate" (more like mass media monologue), by demonstrating to these kids that taking other's rights to solve your perceived problem always seems like a good idea, but having your own rights taken away is another matter, entirely.

    Mark
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  23. #23
    newracer's Avatar
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    So should an 18 year old be allowed to enlist in the military and be issued a firearm. Or should the government be allowed to draft an 18 year old and force them to use a firearm?
    Have you ever seen a man eat so much fish?

  24. #24
    There hasn't been a draft in 40 years, but if you want to serve, then you get all that comes with serving.

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  25. #25
    vb's Avatar
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    Age restriction would equal infringed

  26. #26
    vb's Avatar
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    Owning a gun is a right. Not a privilege

  27. #27
    J Kimmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vb View Post
    Age restriction would equal infringed
    you're not wrong

    I think what Mark is saying is "ok, you want to take away rights to save people, cool, we'll take away yours for a few more years."

    seems like another way to show unintended consequences.
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  28. #28
    vb's Avatar
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    I think he was too

  29. #29
    You are both correct. I wasn't being facetious, though, I'm serious. Appearances aside, our kids are growing less mature, not more, and if they can't be trusted with a beer or rifle, they sure can't be trusted with something much more dangerous: A ballot.

    Mark

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  30. #30
    vb's Avatar
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    And thats where this all leads

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ScaldedDog View Post
    You are both correct. I wasn't being facetious, though, I'm serious. Appearances aside, our kids are growing less mature, not more, and if they can't be trusted with a beer or rifle, they sure can't be trusted with something much more dangerous: A ballot.

    Mark
    I completely agree! 30+ years ago, 18 year old males were much more responsible, mature than they are today; as a whole of course. There are still quite a few good kids out there, but by and large, you can't just assume these late teens are mature. You'd be more safe to assume otherwise. That being said, I would have to really think about raising the age limit to own certain guns. Just like an age limit to drive, buy beer etc.

    However, as Dave said, there is some real social deficiencies that are the root cause of all this. As a whole, our nation is raising up a bunch of sissies and not teaching our children how to be responsible adults. I fear for the future of our nation because eventually we will self-implode if not be taken over. But more to the point, and what a lot of us have been preaching for years is...someone so intent on harming other humans will find a way to get a gun, legal or not. I'd much rather be in a position to protect myself and others, so that *THAT* person would have some opposition.

    When was the last time an NRA or other gun/hunting organizations meeting was attacked by a shooter? I don't recall one. But Gun free zones are easy pickin's.
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  32. #32
    newracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vb View Post
    Age restriction would equal infringed
    I agree but do you think that matters anymore? The SC has already ruled that there can be some restrictions on the 2nd.

  33. #33
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    Let me start by saying two of my kids were at Arapahoe during the shooting there in 2013 and since then I have sadly spent a considerable amount of time reading up on the many school shootings and mass shootings in general. As a parent learning that 2 of your kids are in a school with an active shooter is a nightmare. I had to take a break from it last year as it can have an affect on a person that I no longer wanted. However on December 31st the HR shooting was a block from the path my wife and I take for 5 years now every Saturday and Sunday Morning to walk to Starbucks at the Target on Countyline - we walked past the police and press that morning for perspective. I am your average middle aged family guy in the yuppie suburbs and someone you would never think would have two incidents so close to home. In fact I knew one of the kids who were in the Chucky Cheese shooting in the 80s as I went to Overland High School, I graduated in 83. So sadly I have engaged in this again with a hyper view since the Parkland Shooting.

    Best advice is to be open minded. Too many people watch and believe the media that substanciates their views and opinions. For example the story that CNN fed the questions to Colton Haab in the town hall meeting, turns out Haab's father admitted he edited the email. Fact of the matter is the email instructed Haab that they want him to ask the question he submitted to them, but they did not want him to read his 700 word essay in the interest of time.

    Another example is Fox is discrediting the Parkland Sheriff by saying the deputy that stayed outside was following an age old procedure set forth by the sheriff. Huffington Post's story discredits this. I believe Fox news on this one. I feel the sheriff is on very thin ice and should be held accountable. Especially seeing the response that the Arapahoe sheriffs office had at the AHS shooting. They stormed in a full sprint with no hesitation. I have to believe they made a difference.

    The problem is much greater than just school shootings. Example are the church in Texas and the Las Vegas massacre. Matter of fact in 2018 there have been 47 shootings where 4 or more people have been killed or injured. That does not include the HR shooting as it was on December 31st 2017.

    I have some very strong ideas on what can help. They in my opinion they are common sense ideas and do not favor a right or left view.

    I for one have the utmost respect for the kids involved in the nevergain movement. I find them well spoken and really am inspired by their dedication. I do feel the vast majority of them are asking us all to put politics aside and work together for a solution.

    My daughter who is 19 and goes to UNM was at AHS in 13 and has written some very inspiring pieces over the years. Interesting enough she has had several people reach out to her including a staunch left wing radical activist that you may have seen at almost every Coffman and Gardner town hall meeting - older lady with the pussyhats. This woman is a teacher and wrote to my daughter saying that she appreciated the perspective and considers herself enlightend. Point being is opinions can be changes if your wiling to have an open mind.

    Some brief comments on my views:
    I used to be against controlled entrances to schools. But not believe we need closed campuses with controlled entrances. This is sensible regardless of shootings, for example at AHS a few years ago a students father was arrested for taking pictures of the students and it was found to be distributing under age pornography.

    I do not like the idea of arming teachers. They are their to teach and I do not want to include metrics like range scores etc to choosing the right teacher.

    I like the idea of 1 armed resource officer per 1000 students as suggested by the Florida governor.

    Swift responses to tips on potential threats. The AHS kid and the Parkland kid have very similar history of threats, behaviors etc.

    I feel we need to empower the mental health workers to bring forth these potential threatening individuals to law enforcement agencies. Regardless of school shootings or other mass shootings, almost all of them have had some sort of counseling.

    We need the same background checks and data bases for them for each and every state. Many of these situations have the shooter buying the guns legally and in the case of the HR shooter on the 31st, he got his in Wyoming legally. The point is if someone is on a nix list in one state, often it is not known in another or even county to county and they are able to buy guns in another.

    But not much of this helps with the number of mass shooting in the US overall each year.

    I feel to that we need to stay away from saying well Trump said this, Obama didnt to that and judge the Government on what they do next.

    Unfortunately I travel a lot and actually hesitated to even respond here as there are way too many things left out. These are my opinions based on my experiences and my research using several data points from all directions.
    Last edited by mtn WJ; February 28th, 2018 at 11:12 AM.
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  34. #34
    vb's Avatar
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    Thanks fer sharing with us

  35. #35
    As always, all the silliness is selling a lot of ARs, and at prices much higher than 15 days ago.

    Mark

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  36. #36
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScaldedDog View Post
    As always, all the silliness is selling a lot of ARs, and at prices much higher than 15 days ago.

    Mark

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    I havent seen that.....this time.

  37. #37
    I've been looking at a Saint on Bud's for months, and prices were stable at $820 - $829. By the afternoon of the 14th the price had jumped to $900. Over the coming days they went to $909, then $919, and today they are out of stock on nearly all models.

    Mark

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  38. #38
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScaldedDog View Post
    I've been looking at a Saint on Bud's for months, and prices were stable at $820 - $829. By the afternoon of the 14th the price had jumped to $900. Over the coming days they went to $909, then $919, and today they are out of stock on nearly all models.

    Mark

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    Huh. We are set up wholesale on guns an ammo at work and i was just looking around on the webbysite today while bored and didn't see anything that stood out as far as prices go. Also, Grabagun still has ARs on sale as always.

  39. #39
    creepycrawler's Avatar
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    I did not look at ammo prices.

  40. #40
    The conversation and narrative are not about how to protect our children in schools, if it were there wouldn't be this rush to further strip the liberties of law abiding citizens. The truth is that there are plenty of laws on the books currently that should have prevented this from happening but the system was circumvented repeatedly. Why is it that when government fails the solution is always more government?

    So lets have a real conversation about the safety of our children. What measures will help prevent this type of tragedy in the future?

    Following up on the reports people make about "potential school shooters" the first time, every time. It is beyond comprehension why these would not be taken seriously

    Controlled access at our schools. Lets be real, do you leave the things that you want to protect on the sidewalk in front of your house? No? Why Not? Because you want to control who has access to them, you instinctively know that this helps to secure these precious items. Don't our kids deserve the same basic protection?

    Eliminate schools as gun free zones. The data is in and EVERY study ever done shows that the possibility of an armed victim reduces crime. No one is saying every teacher should be required to carry a gun, but those that choose to should have the right. The real power here isn't in the actual presence of a gun, but the possibility that any person you encounter may have a gun. Other simple truths; when seconds count the police are only minuets away, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, we cant count on the armed and trained police to rush in and save us.

    Hold kids accountable for their actions. A common theme that runs through most of these shooters is that they have repeatedly received lenient treatment for prior transgressions, including felonies. I know everyone wants to give kids the benefit of the doubt and second, third, fourth, ....., 45th chances but it's not working. I realize that it's a fine line but a kid with a bad track record suffers from a lack of discipline and while slogans like "education not incarceration" may give people a warm fuzzy feeling and line the pockets of school districts and police departments, but it's not working. Kids need boundaries to learn how to become adults who behave appropriately, and the law should be a very rigid boundary. I say that as a person who was an at risk youth, the best thing that ever happened to me is that the law put the smack down on me early in life.

    Violent games, music, art, entertainment, and imagery. Lt Col Dave Grossman, who literally wrote the book on psychological training to kill people said that the military doesn't any tool that even comes close to the power of first person shooter video games. Add that into the exposure kids get an an early age to other violent imagery and we are training a society of psychopaths. Perhaps we would be better served to create laws that restrict people under 21 from these forms of stimuli that restricting access to firearms.

    Am I way off base here? What would you add or take away?

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