Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Member #
    3902
    Images
    7

    Question Shaving mud tires??

    I saw an article in a magazine a few years ago that stated that some tire shops can shave the uneven wear areas off the tread of large mud tires to make them perfectly round again. Kinda like a tire-lathe. Does anyone know who might do this in the Denver area? Anyone else ever heard of it?

  2. #2
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Member #
    3902
    Images
    7
    Is that a "no"?...

  3. #3
    It's called "trueing" and it's expensive, removes rubber, and can really mess up a tire. Alot of people who have actually shelled out the money to have the tread chopped off there tires claims that because the tire is "true" the tread lasts longer and is easier to balance. However, in reality, even though the outside of the tire may be perfectly round, the thickness of the carcass and tread varies all around the tire, so balancing will still take a pound of lead, and the different weights all over the tire will be thrown outwards at higher RPM, so even though the tire is "true" when it's just sitting there, at highway speeds the rubber will distort and no longer be true, causing the tire to wear just as fast as it would when it was new. Waste of money, but neat idea.

    EDIT>>>If your tires are wearing unevenly, I'd just go and have them rebalanced, I don't think anyone here in Denver trues tires.

  4. #4
    i remember that article too, but i haven't heard or seen anybody in the Denver area that shaves them.
    2006 WK 5.7 Hemi

  5. #5
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Member #
    3902
    Images
    7
    We may be talking about a different proccess. Here's why:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep TRUCK Thing
    However, in reality, even though the outside of the tire may be perfectly round, the thickness of the carcass and tread varies all around the tire,
    The process I saw used a lathe method to true the tires. This means that not only is the outside of the tire circular, but it is also pefectly concentric with the carcass, bead, wheel, and hub of a vehicle. For the thickness of the carcass to vary, as you mentioned, you'd have to have a flawed tire from the factory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep TRUCK Thing
    and the different weights all over the tire will be thrown outwards at higher RPM, so even though the tire is "true" when it's just sitting there, at highway speeds the rubber will distort and no longer be true,
    Modern balancing machines no longer use the static balance technique to balance tire/wheel combos. The fact that the tires are "spin balanced" ensures a dynamic balance, which does not vary with RPM. There MAY be tire distortion, but only varying TREAD thicknesses could cause that.

  6. #6
    Yes, at high speeds the tire would still be balanced, but it would not be perfectly ROUND like it is when it's not moving (the whole purpose of trueing is to make the tire pefectly round, regardless of how much the tread depth will vary from one part of the tire to another)

    When the tread is fixed to the carcass it's not inflated, there is nothing to keep the carcass from bending slightly concave when the tread compound is injected into the mold. When the tire is removed from the mold, the carcass is able to bend partway back out, forcing the tread up as well. The tread may be 7/8" deep all the way around, but the tread compound in that area will be much thicker than the rest of the tire. When the carcass bends back out this creates the high-spots that trueing new tires removes. But since the carcass only bent partway back out, there is still more rubber in that area, even though the outside diameter of the tire is perfectly round. Since there is more mass in that area, at higher RPMs there will be more total centrifical force in that area and even though it's offset by balancing weight on the other side of the tire, it will still create a high spot that will wear faster than the rest of the tire. This is why trueing isn't worth the cost. All you do is cut off the tread before you get to wear it off by driving it. The only benifit is bragging rights that you got enough money to burn that you chop up brand new tires.

    I understand that these are tires you've already been running for a while and you just want to get the tread even again, but I'd just hate to see another CO wheeler burn money on tire trueing instead of something you can REALLY enjoy, like synthetic winch cable, or new shocks, or more beer or something...

  7. #7
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Member #
    3902
    Images
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep TRUCK Thing
    Yes, at high speeds the tire would still be balanced, but it would not be perfectly ROUND like it is when it's not moving (the whole purpose of trueing is to make the tire pefectly round, regardless of how much the tread depth will vary from one part of the tire to another)
    Still missing my point. I'm saying the whole purpose of trueing is to make the tread depth equal around the entire circumference, i.e. OD concentric w/ carcass. Of course, this only works if your carcass is round and your wheels are not bent, because the whole thing was done with the tire on the wheel and the wheel on the vehicle with the drivetrain turning at some speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep TRUCK Thing
    Since there is more mass in that area
    This is no longer the case if my understanding stated above is correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep TRUCK Thing
    at higher RPMs there will be more total centrifical force in that area
    Enough to distort the carcass of the tire? I don't think that is the case. This is the only way to get higher wear since the balancing weights prevent eccentric movement of the tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep TRUCK Thing
    I understand that these are tires you've already been running for a while and you just want to get the tread even again, but I'd just hate to see another CO wheeler burn money on tire trueing instead of something you can REALLY enjoy, like synthetic winch cable, or new shocks, or more beer or something...
    Just so you know, it's not worth my time or money to have this done because my tires aren't in bad shape. I just wondered if there was a local shop that did this in case it ever DID become worth it, so thanks for your comments.

    Jeep TRUCK: Do you actually know someone who has had this done?

  8. #8
    I usta race Tough Trucks up in Washington (I never won so I'm not bragging) so I know lots of people who've done this with no tangible benifits, only fast wearing tires that look bad due to the uneven tread depth and less money for 1410 u-joints or bilstiens or something else that really would help them out. Alot of times a small time tire shop will start offering the service and do it to a racers truck for free to get there name on the side of a truck. Nobody I ever knew got it done a second time, free or not. One guy I wheeled with(not a racer) paid $300 and change at a local yokel Cooper Tires in Tacoma to get a set of 35" BFG muds trued for his sissy 305 powered unlocked daily driven blazer. In 4 months he had the wear markings showing in spots and 3/8" tread in others, but the tire was perfectly round sitting there.

    My guess was that if your tread is wearing unevenly, you might be out of balance, that's why I suggested a rebalance as opposed to trueing. Because trueing doesn't make the tread depth equal. The thread depth is the ONLY thing that is perfect on the tire from the factory because it's set by the mold. None of the tires we run are ever perfectly round from the factory. Tires this size distort in the mold when the tread compound is injected, they just do because of there size and the huge amount of rubber that gets injected when the tread is molded. Trueing sacrifices the equal tread depth in favor or a "true"ly round tire.

    I don't think anyone in Denver offers this service, since it takes about an hour for a single 33" and the cutting discs in the machine wear out fast since they are continuously resharpened, but if anyone in the area does it, I bet Specialty Wheel and Tire does, down on Santa Fe. Hope this helps to clarify, it's hard without pics or video.

  9. #9
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Member #
    3902
    Images
    7
    JTT: I appreciate your concerns and comments. I DO understand your point and agree with you on the issues you are arguing. However, here's my point of view : The process you have seen and had experience with is definitely NOT the same one I read about. Tires trued in this manner would be ECCENTRIC (this would fit your previous descriptions). You're right, they could be balanced and would wear out quickly. I feel we have ample evidence to prove that we're not talking about the same process, so let's continue the search for the other process(es).

    Questions and comments:
    -Why would ANY tough truck racer care about the roundness of their tires?
    -An unlocked daily driver is the perfect candidate for the proper shaving of a tire, so I can't figure out why you're talking bad about this guy. He just got taken by the local shop. THEY probably didn't even know any better. Your friend should have known better than to spend $300 on it regardless.

    BTW, my tires aren't unbalanced. They have angled tread blocks up front from the auto-locker in the rear. I rotate them to keep it to a minimum, but recently I've slacked and the tread noise is CRAZY! I was just fishing for cheap solutions to the issue. This is obviously not a cheap solution, but it has peaked my curiosity now.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TTU_TJ
    JTT: I appreciate your concerns and comments. I DO understand your point and agree with you on the issues you are arguing. However, here's my point of view : The process you have seen and had experience with is definitely NOT the same one I read about. Tires trued in this manner would be ECCENTRIC (this would fit your previous descriptions). You're right, they could be balanced and would wear out quickly. I feel we have ample evidence to prove that we're not talking about the same process, so let's continue the search for the other process(es).

    Questions and comments:
    -Why would ANY tough truck racer care about the roundness of their tires?
    -An unlocked daily driver is the perfect candidate for the proper shaving of a tire, so I can't figure out why you're talking bad about this guy. He just got taken by the local shop. THEY probably didn't even know any better. Your friend should have known better than to spend $300 on it regardless.

    BTW, my tires aren't unbalanced. They have angled tread blocks up front from the auto-locker in the rear. I rotate them to keep it to a minimum, but recently I've slacked and the tread noise is CRAZY! I was just fishing for cheap solutions to the issue. This is obviously not a cheap solution, but it has peaked my curiosity now.
    Yep, we have GOT to be talking about different things, but the article on tire trueing a while back was the only thing I could think of that you could be talking about. As for your questions:

    Alot of "bench racers" figure that the smoother your tires run, the less heat they'll generate and the less likely you'll be to have a blowout or blistering. My train of thought was "I'm going to be running over a half mile of rail road ties, whoop-dedoos, and axle breaking jumps, tire heat is going to happen no matter what. I'd rather have that tread for the mud hole at the end".

    I'm not talking bad about Hank, I like his POS Blazer and it did hold it's own, but spending $300 to shave the tread off a $600 set of tires only to have them be ruined 4 months later didn't impress me any more than it impressed him. Yeah the shop took him, but every shop that trues tires is suckering people. The truck road smoother on the road than I'd expect with 35" muds, but not smooth enough to justify $900 every 4 months. Also the trueing voided the warrantee.

    I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for, I'll be following this thread, now you've piqued my curiousity now too...

  11. #11
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Member #
    3902
    Images
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep TRUCK Thing
    now you've piqued my curiousity now too...
    Oops. Thanks for the spelling lesson!

    I'll see what I can drum up.

  12. #12
    Now that's not now any now worse now than now my now grammar now, is it now?

    I'm looking too. It's about to drive me nuts...

    EDIT>>>Found this glossary, the two I'd look at are Tread Shaving and Tread Buffing. I type those into yahoo search and all it does is bring up more glossaries with those words in them...

    http://www.imaginecorp.com/tire_termnology.htm
    Last edited by Jeep TRUCK Thing; September 28th, 2004 at 04:00 PM.

  13. #13
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Member #
    3902
    Images
    7
    Google search on "tire shaving": Although for street racing applications, both of these results mention shaving to a specified tread-depth and there is a price of $25-$35 in one of the links.

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...on/shaving.jsp
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...chingtires.jsp

    Some cool tech...

    http://www.porschenet.com/bfgtires.html

    That's all for now. More later? Maybe...

Similar Threads

  1. Driving and Shaving Just Don't Mix
    By DaJudge in forum General Chit Chat
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: May 4th, 2011, 07:05 PM
  2. Ring Gear Shaving
    By Otis in forum General 4x4 Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: February 13th, 2008, 11:52 PM
  3. Shaving a FF14 bolt
    By thekiffer in forum General 4x4 Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: February 14th, 2005, 12:36 PM
  4. shaving a 9"
    By COJEEPTJ in forum General 4x4 Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: December 4th, 2002, 11:38 AM
  5. Shaving 60's
    By Cruiserdude in forum General 4x4 Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 3rd, 2002, 11:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •