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Thread: Front Wheel Hop
February 7th, 2010, 09:51 PM #1
Front Wheel Hop
A few times a year I am in situations which have me on the throttle for longer periods of times than most. Most times are in the snow, but other times have been sand, and muddy climbs. For the most part it hardly shows its ugly face but for the rare moments, the following occurs:
Under moderate to heavy Acceleration, in 4 wheel drive, locked f&r, the front tires will begin to hop and jump rapidly. Coils rattle and seems to be headed towards some sorta violent destruction. This usually prompts me to let off the throttle to get them back into control, usually losing any ground gained. It occurs mostly on inclines. It doesn't seem to occur on long 4 wheel throttled drifts fully locked or open in straight aways or flat areas.
Front Suspension is comprised of 5100 Bilstien Shocks, 4.5" Rubicon Express Coils, Tera joints on lower axle arms, rubber RE joints on Upper Control arms, and I don't know my front pinon angle for sure but would guess 6 degrees.
My Question would be: Why does Wheel Hop occur and How do you correct or build to prevent it???
February 7th, 2010, 10:31 PM #2
Same thing happens in deep snow with my sh*^! Starts to hop and shake everywhere! When ya let off the throttle a little...it stops! Goes with the territory! Best be careful...cause it's only a matter of time before ya start breakin that frontend apart!
Last edited by cajun tj; February 8th, 2010 at 09:47 AM. Reason: correct spellingJeeps...
February 7th, 2010, 10:31 PM #3
Always happens in deep snow on an incline!
February 7th, 2010, 11:08 PM #4
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Aurora (Denver) CO
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Could be several things:
Control arm bushings shot.
Shocks incorrectly valved (need stiffer) or worn out.
Steering damper worn out or other loosness in any steering component or wheel bearing.
Just some guesses.'98 TJ, 2xOX, Sanden OBA, D44, 4.56, 35's, M8000 etc..
February 7th, 2010, 11:37 PM #5
Didn't the guys over at TNT run into the same problem with the Hyline Hemi build? Same spring and everything. I think they decided to change springs. Might want to call Bob and see what they came up with.
February 8th, 2010, 09:18 AM #6
Do any people with Coilovers or air shocks on the front experience this?
February 8th, 2010, 09:19 AM #7
February 8th, 2010, 01:37 PM #8
I remember seeing a similar thing on when editing a bunch of footage from a Moab trip. This XJ, IIRC, has TNT setup in the front. Is a similar thing happening to you? I thought is was an odd thing when I first saw it.
I really donít have an idea of the fix, but just have a general interest.1993 YJ, 4.0, 103' WB, D44s, ARBs, SOA, SR, 37" Pitbulls, rear disk brakes, Hi-Steer and hydro-assist, sanden OBA, custom cage, tube fenders, boatside rockers, PS comp cuts.
February 8th, 2010, 03:04 PM #9
Yes, that's it but a little more dramatic and violent since more throttle is involved in snowy hill climbs. Inside the jeep feels like it wants to rip things apart. It can't be good for it.
A good example of it from a year ago....
Last edited by Impaired; February 8th, 2010 at 03:28 PM.
February 8th, 2010, 04:36 PM #10
February 8th, 2010, 05:12 PM #11
If all the joints are tight, looks like a simple damper issue.
If you have control of your bound/rebound valve with the coil-over, I would try to stiffen up the rebound valve which would dissipate the energy of the spring, not allowing it to oscillate.I need a new hobby
February 9th, 2010, 08:44 AM #12
February 9th, 2010, 01:32 PM #13
February 9th, 2010, 02:37 PM #14
February 9th, 2010, 03:28 PM #15
I'm sorta leaning towards the Coil rate and Shocks as mentioned above. Will most likely wait until I redo the front suspension entirely but thought I would throw it out there and see just how common of a problem this was.
February 9th, 2010, 10:39 PM #16
Changing the shocks and coils could help the issue but it's only going to be a bandaid to help mask the real problem.
I've dealt a lot more with rear wheel hop than front but it's all a similar issue. I bet he real problem lies in the link geometry. Post up a picture of the front links and it will be easier to tell.
EDIT: Just watched the video.....trail looks fun! Where is that?
Last edited by tmorgan4; February 9th, 2010 at 10:41 PM.
February 10th, 2010, 09:43 AM #17
My Coils are sorta Curved slightly from not moving the Spring buckets forward when I stretched it forward. Could be part of it ....
Video is Wheeler Lake Trail on July 3rd 2009. Bottom of "Bowling Ball Hill" (I think that is what it is called). Snow is ususally wet, melting, or hard packed. You either push through the slush or have to get up on top it through the soft stuff.
February 10th, 2010, 10:40 AM #18
Bob will have that wheel hop fix for the hyline hemi posted soon. I saw the fix but can't say anything.V-8 TJ-Buggy 105"WB, RockJock 60s, 17" TrailReady Double Beadlocks, 40" Creepy Crawler Stickies, Atlas II 4.3 etc...
05 Chevrolet 2500HD LT Duramax, AFE Stage II, MBRP 5" exhaust, EFI Live
2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 6.1 HEMI
February 10th, 2010, 11:08 AM #19
From past experience, it's shock valving first and coil rate second. The larger the tire diameter, the larger the "lever" acting against the suspension compounded by the unsprung weight of said larger tire - the "problem" with the HyLine HEMI. 42's and Prorocks make for some serious unsprung weight to control and the RE stuff just can't cope. Nothing against REcoils or shocks, great parts; however they (RE) never intended to have them controlling 42's and D60s...
Jeeps on 35's or even "light" 37s (MTRs) don't have the wheel hop for the most part. This is the norm out there, we around here tend to be outside of the norm and run larger heavier tires, bigger axles, AND play in the snow - this is a great recipie for wheel hop.
Let's face it a HP44 or worse a D60 dwarf a D30 front end on the scales, coupled with larger & heavier tires making for unsprung weight that can't be controled with a standard off the shelf suspension. I've been able to "solve" it with much heavier valved shocks. The down side to that is the street ride goes away. Luckily in the past couple of years the externally adjustable shocks have really come around and have a "have your cake and eat it too" appeal - soft on the street and OMG it's a dump truck firm when the skinny pedal is mashed in the snow - all with a simple turn of a dial.
We're somewhat partial to the Walker Evans shocks as the adjuster is on the remote res vs the shock body. On Da Lo Rider we're working with Rancho and using a set of their RS9000XL shocks to see how they work out.
February 11th, 2010, 07:11 AM #20
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- Jan 2002
- yorkville, il
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You can only kind of see it happening to my rig in this video from a few years ago....deep snow/incline:
I had a similar setup with long arms, bilstein shocks, RE 5.5" coils, and 35s.
I later found out that my own poorly built truss was cracked, but I'm not sure if it cracked because of the hopping or if it was hopping because it was cracked.
February 11th, 2010, 09:29 AM #21
February 12th, 2010, 08:26 AM #22
I think you've gotten some good responses but I'm still sticking with the fact that it's link geometry.
Replacing the shocks may help control the axle movement, but the shocks are not the CAUSE of the wheel hop. If you want to get rid of it, you need to fix what's causing the wheel hop and not just try to cover it up with different shocks.
With that said, different shocks may help to where it's good enough. It's definitely going to be the cheaper option and probably worth trying...especially if you don't want to hack up all your suspension mounts and links.
February 12th, 2010, 02:13 PM #23
I know on Isuzu Rodeos the rear hops really bad. I found out that Isuzu over did it with the "anti-squat" geometry of the links. Its something like 125%. Moving the upper links higher (new brackets have to be made and welded on of course) completely gets rid of the wheel hop. Wish I had a welder and some fabing skills to fix mine
I have also heard of people adding an extra set of shocks to control it. More of an old school method I guess.--Dave
1999 Rodeo LS 3.2 4x4 5 Speed 33x12.50-15 Goodyear Wranger Duratrac 4" Lift - Rancho 9000x - No-Slip Locker rear
February 12th, 2010, 02:48 PM #24
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- Jan 2002
- Parker, CO
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The shocks are there to control the ossilation but the source can be link angles, tire wrap, slip/stick from the tires, ect. It might even be from wheel imbalance, either from snow caught inside the wheel, or the tires are simply out of balance.1994 Toyota FZJ80 - elocked, 3in OME lift, 315/75-16 KM2s, Warn 8274.
February 12th, 2010, 05:03 PM #25