Spring Creek

[kevh]

ran Spring Creek yesterday (29 June 03) and there were 2 forest service guys at the rock garden. they were taking pictures of anyone who spun excessively and anyone who took the bypass (especially one vehicle spinning on the bypass) their comments included the fact that the bypass for the rock garden WAS NOT a legal part of the trail. later on when we saw them at the top we asked if the forest service intended on closing off the bypass and they replied "that is up to the bosses". suggestions were even made by a member of our group about putting up a sign stating the bypass was not part of the trail and the reply was "and how long do you think that would last?".
many comments were also made about using the trees as winch points WITHOUT USING A TREE STRAP. c'mon, what's a tree strap cost...about $15. it only takes an extra 5 seconds to use one and it will help save your winch line.

it would be a shame if this trail was closed. please stay on the main trail. the rock garden can be completed by most on 32s (maybe even 31s-i dont know how a longer wheelbase would affect this but i am sure it would be tougher) IF you take your time and carefully spot your way through. just have some armor and a winch (or a buddy)

[Backcountry Colorado]

Take a look at LHC. PERFECT example of wayward wheelers with no respect for the land......Next thing you know, all the trails will be bordered with Jersey barriers.......

[Bill]

The upper part of Bill Moore Lake (before you go over the top and down to the lake) is becoming that way. too. "Ah, there's still a snow drift, just drive around it." "Rough, steep stuff giving my truck problems? Well, that tundra looks nice and smooth, should be able to drive up that."

The hill climb on Yankee Hill used to only have 2 routes (probably only 1 originally originally) now there's 3 or 4 tracks up that hill!

:rolleyes: :mad: graemlins/pissed.gif

(Almost makes me mad enough to use one of these: graemlins/flipoff.gif but I don't do that.)

Now, I will admit to using the bypass on Spring Creek but I had been led to believe (like others have said) that it was an official, legal part of the trail. I will avoid it now that I know better.

[YJJennO]

I also thought that the bypass on Spring Creek was a legal Bypass. Now that I know it is not I will not use it, or let anyone in the group I go with use it. I would never make my own trail! If the Snow Drift is too deep that is covering the trail, then back-up to a wide spot turn around and go home and wait for it to get warmer so the snow will melt!

[SamFromCO]

Is there a club that maintains Spring Creek? It might be worth getting permission from the Forest Service to put up barricades through the rock garden. Maybe a barricade party??? I also wasn't aware that the bypass wasn't in bounds.

[YJJennO]

According to what "Elk's" wife heard that there is no group taking care of Spring Creek. However, according to the Mile Jeep Club web page dated 2001 Patrol #8, they have adopted the trail! I aslo think that alot of us are willing to have a barricade party in order to keep the trail open!

[Hardcor4x4]

I've been up this trail several times and every year it gets more and more tore up. I'd hate to see this trail closed because of people who don't care or respect the trials for future wheelers.

[mtn WJ]

I have run Spring Creek several times and have taken the by pass each time thinking it was a legal option. I have never heard anyone say otherwise. Read all the trip reports if you dont agree with me. I guess it all goes to what we assueme = ass u me. Thanks for the tip. One thing I wonder is why didnt the rangers ticket people on the by pass when they were taking the pictures. The issue with the tree straps it critical as well I dont have a winch but I have a hi lift with tree straps just in case.

On a seperate noe one thing I hate is when two vehicles come up head to head on a tight trail and one guy imediately jumps up onto the tundra. They act like they are being a gracious friend but are really causing harm and not doing you a favor. I know it is typicaly a guy that is not a frequent wheeler but when the damage is done no one cares who did it, just that it was done and when the trail is closed we all care. Yesterday a guy did that and just 100 feet behind him was a pull over area. The guy in our group did not even have a chance to asses a better method because the truck darted over with out thinking. I often think putting a detailed trail edicate sign at trail heads may help. Especially the trails with easy access where newbies and the guy with a new truck or SUV will likely give it a try can read it before hand. Most of these guys never read a off road trail book and never heard of tread lightly.

I will sare to the Colorado Guys something a wheeler from Sandiego said yesteday. He was in our group on Half Moon and commented on how serious guys from Colorado take trail edicate and staying on the trails. I was proud to hear that because I agree and I do not believe it is the dedicated wheeler doing the damage when we are aware of (SPringCreek Bypass is a exception because we all thought it was legal) the rules of wheeling in the backcountry.

Alright I am done because my fingers are stiff. Keith

[Colorado 5.9]

LOL, I wonder if Joe said that after I talked to him about criptobiotic soil. I think there was some up top were we turned around on Sunday. It was kinda hard to tell. It was white and crusty. I did my best to avoid it when I turned around. I caught some I think. Joe had backed up on some when he turned around & I told him what I thought it was. I also talked about the soil in Moab.

[Mule]

The trail was officially adopted by Patrol 8 back in 01, but they are very few of them left. This was brought up at MHJC's board meeting last night and another patrol is stepping up to take their place. I will update everyone as I get info. Someone will be contacting the Forest Service very soon!

Greg,

[79CJLongmont]

Maybe I am crazy, but why even run Spring Creek if you are going to take the bypass around the rock garden??? That is the only tough part on the trail. Maybe you should be sticking to something easier, like a dirt road.

If you don't know that it is not legal, fine. That is understood, but why run the trail and take the bypasses. It is just opinion, but if you are not running the hard stuff, then pick an easier trail!

[Bill]

A few reasons someone might run Spring Creek and take the bypass (pretending for the moment that it is legal to do so, like we all thought it was):

1)I've never run the trail before and didn't know it was that hard before I started.

2)I'm trying to improve my skills and push my limits but now I'm holding up traffic so I'd better get out of the way.

3)My Jeep is pretty much stock but my friend has a monster. We'd like to 'wheel together but it's hard to find trails that my rig can handle that aren't just boring for him.

4)It's a very pretty area and I like the scenery.

5)It's fun to go up and watch people bash their trucks on the rocks but I don't want to bash mine.

6)Spring Creek? I thought this was Ute Creek!

7)You know what, after having to fix those 3 flats and rebuild my carburator I think we'd better get on through as quickly as possible, especially since it's getting dark.

There's probably more but I think you get the idea.

[JeepGirl]

Not defending the people who take the by-pass on this trail. But, 79CJLongmont, if you and Rob hadn't told me I could do it AND if you hadn't spotted me thru this (and you're an excellent spotter despite that 1st obstacle at Kremmling :D )I would have taken the by-pass not knowing it wasn't part of the trail. :D

[79CJLongmont]

Originally posted by Bill:
A few reasons someone might run Spring Creek and take the bypass (pretending for the moment that it is legal to do so, like we all thought it was):

1)I've never run the trail before and didn't know it was that hard before I started.Charles Wells has some great books and he even rates the trails in terms of difficulty in them.

2)I'm trying to improve my skills and push my limits but now I'm holding up traffic so I'd better get out of the way.Back-up. Find a spot to sit and wait until they go by. When they are done, give it a shot again. If it is still not doable, see my answer to #1

3)My Jeep is pretty much stock but my friend has a monster. We'd like to 'wheel together but it's hard to find trails that my rig can handle that aren't just boring for him.Hop in the passenger seat and enjoy the ride!

4)It's a very pretty area and I like the scenery.
See my answer to #1.

5)It's fun to go up and watch people bash their trucks on the rocks but I don't want to bash mine.
Park somewhere convenient, and hike up there for the show.

6)Spring Creek? I thought this was Ute Creek!
Someone need remedial map and sign reading lessons?

7)You know what, after having to fix those 3 flats and rebuild my carburator I think we'd better get on through as quickly as possible, especially since it's getting dark.Turn around and go out the way you came in or turn on the headlights, bundle up and head through as quickly as possible.

This is not personal. My point is just that too many people try to run trails that their vehicle is not equipped to run and this is why we end-up with these problems to begin with. It makes no sense to run a trail like Spring Creek where the rock garden is the really only tough obstacle and then you decide that it is too tough for you and you drive around it. People need to know the capabilities of their vehicle and read about the trail they are considering running and make sure the 2 match. I find it humorous when someone will not even try an obstacle and they just cruise on around. Conversely, I don't mind waiting on someone who is pushing their limits and trying to become a better driver. I'll even spot you through it if you need me to, but, really, go play in your backyard or something if you have to bypass the rock garden on this trail, for reals!! It is not the widowmaker or the golden crack or anything! :D

[Rhyas]

Originally posted by 79CJLongmont:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bill:
A few reasons someone might run Spring Creek and take the bypass (pretending for the moment that it is legal to do so, like we all thought it was):

1)I've never run the trail before and didn't know it was that hard before I started.Charles Wells has some great books and he even rates the trails in terms of difficulty in them.
</font>[/QUOTE]Yep, and we all know those are dead on accurate assesments of the trails after so many years. (How old is that book anyhow, ins't it like 4+ years??)


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
2)I'm trying to improve my skills and push my limits but now I'm holding up traffic so I'd better get out of the way.Back-up. Find a spot to sit and wait until they go by. When they are done, give it a shot again. If it is still not doable, see my answer to #1
</font>[/QUOTE]Nice thought, but here you are, thought you could do this, 3/4ths of the way up the trail...Oh look, a bypass and I can finish the trail, or I can go back down, causing more havoc meeting people coming up...



</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
3)My Jeep is pretty much stock but my friend has a monster. We'd like to 'wheel together but it's hard to find trails that my rig can handle that aren't just boring for him.Hop in the passenger seat and enjoy the ride!
</font>[/QUOTE]Where's the fun in that. :D How are people supposed to learn the limits and get experience in their rigs without hitting trails that they know are beyond what they've done?



</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
7)You know what, after having to fix those 3 flats and rebuild my carburator I think we'd better get on through as quickly as possible, especially since it's getting dark.Turn around and go out the way you came in or turn on the headlights, bundle up and head through as quickly as possible.
</font>[/QUOTE]Again, the whole making it difficult for the people coming up. Spring Creek in particular is pretty crowded most weekends and there are spots where it would be a real PITA to meet someone going the other way.



This is not personal. My point is just that too many people try to run trails that their vehicle is not equipped to run and this is why we end-up with these problems to begin with. It makes no sense to run a trail like Spring Creek where the rock garden is the really only tough obstacle and then you decide that it is too tough for you and you drive around it. People need to know the capabilities of their vehicle and read about the trail they are considering running and make sure the 2 match. I find it humorous when someone will not even try an obstacle and they just cruise on around. Conversely, I don't mind waiting on someone who is pushing their limits and trying to become a better driver. I'll even spot you through it if you need me to, but, really, go play in your backyard or something if you have to bypass the rock garden on this trail, for reals!! It is not the widowmaker or the golden crack or anything! :D I agree with you on most of that, but I also agree that where bypasses are made legally, they are a good option for a variety of reasons.

Spring creek is actually a nice moderate trail without the Rock Garden. If there WERE a legal bypass for it, it would be a pretty challenging trail for all stock vehicles, challenging for moderate's, and great for noobs. Spring Creek is NOT just the Rock Garden. It's all the rest of it to. And why should anyone have the right to begrudge someone the rest of the trail because the can't make one part of it?? (Spring Creek not being a good example for that argument due to lack of bypass :D ) I can think of many trails in Moab that have bypasses that can still be run by a lot of people, but allow for people to play on the more difficult stuff.

That being said, it should be noted, and the word spread by all that there is no longer a bypass for the rock garden on spring creek. If your vehicle can't make it over the boulders, or your not up there with someone willing to drag your rig over them, then it shouldn't be up there. (:

-= Jay =-

[Comfortably Numb]

Those are all good thoughts as far as they go. But few people read any kind of trail description before heading out. I'd bet money that most people out there don't even have the Forest Service or BLM travel map for the area they're in.

If you're getting upset because someone in a less capable rig is in your way on public lands, too bad for you. It is public land, therefore anyone who wishes to can drive on the road, regardless of the capability of their rig or their driving skills. This is also the unfortunate reason so many illegal bypasses come to exist in the first place, someone couldn't make the obsticle and decided to just go around it instead, totally unaware they were violating the law.

All that we can do is attempt to educate others as to what is right & wrong, the difficulty level of different trails and existence or lack of bypasses for difficult sections. But there will always be someone who ends up in trouble out there.

So far I've only seen someone's secondhand info that the bypass in question may be illegal. Until I see something official from USFS I'm going to treat the info as possibly incorrect. For me it makes very little difference since I rarely run any of the close in trails so that I can avoid the crowded conditions that are mentioned for this trail. I've never run it and probably never will.

From what I understand about this trail the bypass has been in existence for many years, it's hard to believe that the USFS has been unaware of it before 3 weeks ago. The people who were up there may not have been actual USFS employees. They could've been anyone. And if they were USFS employees their personal opinions are not necessarily official USFS opinions. The best thing would be for someone familiar with the trail to personally contact the district ranger for that area and get and official opinion on the bypass. If there is a group who has adopted the trail they should be the ones to get the official word & pass it on.

[mtn WJ]

LongmontCJ79.

I guess I do not understand your beef about Spring Creek and people who thought they were legaly taking the bypass. I too wonder if it really is illegal because as I stated I found it interesting that they did not write tickets and it is just one persons report. Spring Creek only has about a dozen different bypasses and routes in many directions anyway. It is a moderate trail that allows many types of rigs to run it in groups with their friends. I am not sure if you are trying to boast your own rig or if you just dont get it. Maybe you should never run on a dirt road ever again because you are so capable and since other rigs are better on the highway you just stick to hard core trails.

[Bill]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bill:
A few reasons someone might run Spring Creek and take the bypass (pretending for the moment that it is legal to do so, like we all thought it was):

1)I've never run the trail before and didn't know it was that hard before I started.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charles Wells has some great books and he even rates the trails in terms of difficulty in them.
I read Charles Wells description of the trail. He said there was a bypass around the very hardest part making the trail doable for my vehicle.

[Mule]

I'm not so sure the bypass is there illegally. Changes in rangers for areas tend to let things like trail structure fall through the cracks. As near as I can tell, the last FS Ranger did not have any beefs about it. I may be able to track down the patrol leader that originally did the adoption and see what he has to say about it.
Greg

[Mule]

I have met the Clear Creek FS people, I actually spent several hours with them last weekend when we worked on Blll Moore Lake. They are a good group of people. Some of them are new to the area, and are still getting up to speed on the area. Patrol 10 of Mile Hi is in the process of taking over the adoption. The old patrol that had it aren't around anymore. If anyone has contact with a FS person and feels there is a problem, please contact me and I will try to figure out what is going on or what can be done.

Greg, the "Mule"

[rockjox]

A few of us were up there on Saturday, 9/13/03, and someone had to leave their Internation truck in the rock garden. Looked like broken steering column and it looked like it had been there a while.

http://www.sendpix.com/albums/03091320/2032070000001167e8bea6657eac7b496f2d387aed3666/24.jpg