Possible permanent Hayman closures

[Red_Chili]

You knew this was coming... thought I would forward it:
_____________________________
____________________________________
>
> KEEP OUR TRAILS OPEN
>
> Hello,
>
> My name is Sherri Humphrey and I live in Florissant less than a mile
> from
> the Hayman Fire area. As you have probably recently heard portions of the
> Hayman Fire area opened. But none of the 4-wheel drive trails such as
> Hackett, Longwater or even 360 at the 4 corners area were opened.
>
> That is because the forest service is currently doing a Road Analysis
> Project for these roads (along with others). I have attached a copy of
> the Road Analysis Project listed on the Forest Service and Hayman Web
> Site.
>
>
> I personally spent more than an hour at the Hayman Restoration Office
> this
> morning speaking with Dana Butler and Bill Jackson regarding these trails.
> This is the initial phase of the road analysis. They are accepting input
> now. The official decision on whether to open or decomission these roads
> will come later this summer. At that time they will have to open the
> decision for a 30 day public input period.
>
> I thought this might be useful information to send to your clubs. The
> more
> people aware that they might close these roads forever and the more input
> we are able to give the better chance we have of keeping them open.
>
> I also spoke with Stacy at the Colorado Association for 4 Wheel Drive
> Clubs
> today and she mentioned that the comment was made by the forest service
> earlier this year or last year that they would prefer to just forget these
> trails and close them.
>
> She also explained to me that if people were to comment they could use
> a
> sample form letter but also must include a personal statement for the
> forest service to count it as an individuals public opinion.
>
> I myself love these trails and live so close to the area, I am also
> associated with several of the 4-wheel drive shops in town. I have a
> vinyl sticker business and sell stickers to the shops along with
> individuals.
>
> I will be posting this letter and a personal note and sign up sheet at
> every shop I can in Colorado Springs, Woodland Park and everywhere
> inbetween.
>
> I hope that you will get this information out to your clubs so that
> others
> can give their input also.
>
> I am attaching a link to the Road Analysis Project info from the web
> site,
> and a Sample letter that I am sending and posting at the shops.
>
> Thank you for your time.
> Sherri Humphrey
> J&S Graphics
> Florissant, CO
> <A HREF="http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/psicc/hayres/index.htm"
> Click here: Hayman Fire Incident Information</A> This is the link to the Road
> Analysis Project

[MountainJeep]

Heres the link

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/psicc/hayres/index.htm


Roads important to me are:

FS 360
Metberry gulch
Hackett Gulch,
Longwater Gulch

Key Points:

"If you have any concerns or information about any of these roads, please let us know by May 14, 2003. Any comments you wish to include about why a road is important to you would also be useful in our analysis. For instance, are there roads on this map that meet or would meet your needs if they were maintained to a lesser standard, such as suitable for high clearance vehicles only? Which of these roads do you believe should be maintained as suitable for passenger cars? Are there roads on this map that you think should be closed or decommissioned? Or, if you would like more information or want to be kept informed about the process, please contact:

Dana Butler
R2_psicc_Hayman_Recovery@fs.fed.us
Hayman Restoration Office
540 Elkton Drive, Suite 201
Colorado Springs, CO 80907"

[ May 09, 2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: MountainJeep ]

[Red_Chili]

This is a copy of an email I sent to Dana Butler using the email above (gender unknown) if you want to use it to start your own email, its important to underscore the personal value of the area to you, your family, and friends.
_______________________________________________________
Hello Dana-
I would like to be kept informed about the road analysis project for the Hayman burn area. I also want to let you know just how important the Hackett Gulch road, Longwater Gulch, Metberry Gulch, Forest Road 360, along with the 717 trail system, are to me. The closeness and relative low-altitude nature of this area make it ideal for three-season recreation, both 4x4 and motorcycle, for myself and my family. It is important enough to me to prompt me to volunteer in the past to maintain it, to help with the Hayman burn recovery in the past year, and to continue to do what is necessary to keep the trails/roads in this area that were open before the burn open after the burn!

Please do not use the burn as an excuse to close any roads or trails in the area. Now is the time to enlist local clubs and recreationists in improving the roads and trails to keep them open and sustainable. The Pike National Forest in general, and this area in particular, is vital to front range recreationists and is a very important part of what makes living here worthwhile. I know the terrain and ecosystem bear the brunt of such intense use, but this is cause for funding and volunteer efforts to mitigate the effects of so many people finding the area so inviting - not cause for closure!

Please make a note of my comments in your analysis, and keep me informed not only as to your progress but concerning any way that I can help in keeping these roads and trails open and sustainable.

Bill Morgan
<contact info, don't forget to add it>

[Chuck Henry - GollyGwagen]

Sent my letter.

[MountainJeep]

FYI, heres my letter for reference...
graemlins/old_glory.gif
Dana Butler
R2_psicc_Hayman_Recovery@fs.fed.us
Hayman Restoration Office
540 Elkton Drive, Suite 201
Colorado Springs, CO 80907
RE: Comments on why FS roads within the Hayman Burn Area are important to me

Dear Ms. Butler:

I am writing you to voice my opinion on the future use of several forest service roads within the Hayman Burn Area. I understand that the NFS is currently reviewing the future of these roads through the Hayman Roads Analysis Project.

My family and friends have been using the trail system comprised of FS 360, Hackett Gulch Road, Longwater Gulch Road, and Metberry Gulch Road since we moved to Denver in 1998. We have found this area to be invaluable for family activities such as hiking, camping, four wheeling, fishing, climbing, and canoeing. This area's beauty, proximity to Denver, and the various activities that are offered make it by far our favorite place to recreate within Colorado's National Forest System.

While we were devastated by the destruction that the Hayman Fire caused, and we understand the dangers presented by with soil instability and dead stand that are currently affecting the Hayman Burn Area, we would like to ask that, if all possible, the above mention roads not be closed permanently for recreational use. I understand that these roads may need to remain closed until such a time that the area has stabilized, but I would ask that the NFS consider this area for reopening as soon as reasonable stabilization has been achieved.

Also, I would ask that the NFS consider this area as a great opportunity for public education in regard to both the effects of severe forest fires as well as education as to the forest recovery processes. Allowing the public to enter these areas, under controlled conditions such as "road travel only", or "designated use areas" would allow for controlled access to less sensitive and more stable areas of the Hayman Burn Area. To allow the public to see the first hand the devastation cause by fire, and natures power to restore itself would provide an invaluable learning experience to children and adults alike.

In closing, I believe that for the NFS to permanently close these roads and refuse access to the public would be a wasted opportunity for the NFS to use portions of the Hayman Burn Area as a public education tool. For me personally, to have this area closed to public access by vehicle would be extremely disappointing. While there are other places to go and recreate in Colorado, this area has particular value to my family and I ask that the NFS rigorously pursue action to keep these roads open.

Sincerely,

Bill Gilmore

William Y. Gilmore IV
Environmental Manager
Raytheon Polar Services Company
61 Inverness Drive East, Suite 300
Englewood, Colorado, 80112, USA

[Murfman]

sent mine!!!

[Hobo Willy]

Sent Email to Dana... ;)

[JeepGirl]

sent mine. thanks for the notice Bill

[MountainJeep]

Only 6 people have bothered to send an email to this point? That is weak.

graemlins/pissed.gif

But then again I am a green bastard who cares about the environment. Wait, this is more about keeping some great trails open for our use. Again the remaining 2000 CO4x4 BB users who have not sent an email are losers! Get on it!

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/ups/kamikaze/smilie_wash.gif

heh

[auto_know]

Sent, Thanks Bill

[jman]

Sent mine

[Captain Crunch]

Sent mine, How about it people lets keep it open!

[Red_Chili]

FWIW, I copied the original email from the Rising Sun 4x4 list (where it got a lot of visibility) to COHVCO Land Use Issues. The man said he had been inundated with them. So a little here, a little there, then when the ranger checks her inbox and OHMYGOLLYGOSHJEEPERSWHATTHEHECK-1,249EMAILSONHACKETT!!!

[Griz]

Sent my comments for opening and keeping the trails and roads open.

[Bill]

Only 6 people have bothered to send an email to this point? That is weak...

...Wait, this is more about keeping some great trails open for our use. Again the remaining 2000 CO4x4 BB users who have not sent an email are losers! Get on it!Let me get this straight: The original post is placed at 8:11 this morning and anybody whose hasn't posted by 1:48is a loser? :confused:

Give me a break I just barely logged on... :rolleyes:

[Backcountry Colorado]

Just finished sending mine......see below


Dana,
I have received information recently that indicates possible permanent closures of several popular FS roads and or trails in the Hayman burn area. Of particular interest to me (for both personal and professional reasons) are FS 360, Metberry Gulch, Hackett Gulch and Longwater Gulch. In the past, I have traveled these routes on many instances for recreational purposes. Their locations, relative to the Front Range of Colorado's Rocky Mountains makes them quite popular in the multi-use circles. I have heard many people express a strong desire to see these trails reopened in the near future. I have also heard many, many offers of assistance in policing, maintaining and restoration of these areas. We here in Colorado have been blessed in the fact that we all have access to these wonderful, scenic and sometimes challenging areas. there are several local 4x4 organizations who, I am certain, would be willing and anxious to assist the USFS in coordinating the reopening of these trails. In addition to my personal reasons for wanting these trails to remain open, I also have a professional interest in seeing them reopened. I own and operate Backcountry Colorado, an SUV driving instruction company here in the Denver metro area. When compiling a list of trails I wished to incorporate into my cirriculum and Adventure Tour series, I have planned on utilizing these trails. The USFS would not only be promoting responsible SUV and 4x4 vehicle operation by reopening these trails, but they would also realize a modest income from permit issuance. I have already had to modify my 2003 schedule due to the closure of these trails, and I would be greatly disappointed if these trails were to remain closed indefinitely. During the assessment and re-evaluation of these trails, please realize that with the ever-increasing popularity of back-country recreation, these trails serve a vital role in the Front Range communities.

If I, or my company, can be of any assistance in this matter, please feel free to contact me.

Respectfully,
Ray Greco, owner
Backcountry Colorado

[SNOWMAN]

Originally posted by Bill:
Let me get this straight: The original post is placed at 8:11 this morning and anybody whose hasn't posted by 1:48is a loser? :confused:
So I guess those of us that actually have to work during the day are losers. :rolleyes:

==============================

Here is my email for reference & I'll be forwarding the link to my Patrol :D

---

Sent to:
Dana Butler
R2_psicc_Hayman_Recovery@fs.fed.us

Howdy there Dana. My name is Rian Snowbarger and I'm a member of MHJC Patrol 14. I would be pleased to see the 4x4 trails in the Hayman Fire area re-open. I've never been there & I can understand why the forest service would not want to re-open them and have people making their own trails all over the burnt land but if cabling & signage were put up along the roads in the area as part of a joint effort put on by COHVCO, MHJC and local wheelers (as well as whomever else I forgot) it could be a great thing overall. It is too bad that people go out and give 4wheeling a bad name but there are more people on the good side of the fence in my opinion. I'm not sure if you heard but the recent Carnage cleanup @ LHC was a great success. Please keep me informed on the proceedings.

Thanks

Rian Snowbarger
6750 Green River Dr.
Unit F
Littleton, CO 80130

303-346-3073 Home
iski@tahoe.com

[Comfortably Numb]

Originally posted by MountainJeep:
Only 6 people have bothered to send an email to this point? That is weak.

graemlins/pissed.gif

But then again I am a green bastard who cares about the environment. Wait, this is more about keeping some great trails open for our use. Again the remaining 2000 CO4x4 BB users who have not sent an email are losers! Get on it!

heh Whoa there buddy. Not everyone logs on this site every day for one. And not everyone necessarily will post here that they sent their comment. You need to relax a little.

[76 warlock]

I have been using those trails for 50 years and they will not keep me out, i will give them the time to clean them up. We own the land they are paid to manage it the simply cannot close it. I hate mindless federal bureaucrats.

[REDBULL]

Mail Sent. :D

[redrover]

Mail Sent, Cross posted on Pirate4x4

j

[bsaunder]

sent mine - and cross posting info where I haven't seen it already..

[YJ Dave]

I'm about to send my email in. in addition to sending this to several friends and family members who do not use this board for them to send in eamils. i have also posted a link on Rockcrawlwr.com and JeepYJ.net

[MountainJeep]

Hey MoabTamer and "Bill" lighten up! You guys must be wound pretty tight not to be able to read the goodnatured jabbing in my email. As for not logging on until 1:48 pm, and being "barely logged" on goes...that sounds like an issue you need to work out for yourself!
graemlins/rasta.gif

Still, I know I have actually wheeled with more people from this board than have posted that they have sent an email, and thats a poor reflection on this comunity. If folks can't work up the energy to try to keep a few trails open (especially these trails as I know that they were heavily used by folks on this board), then maybe they ought to just sell their rigs and take up golf.

tongue.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif

(This post was meant to get things stirred up, and perhaps light a fire under a few people ass', so if you feel the need to rant and flame, go right ahead!) graemlins/old_glory.gif

[twistedcherokee]

Sent mine. Thanks for the info.

Toby graemlins/bounce.gif

[Bill]

Hey MoabTamer and "Bill" lighten up! You guys must be wound pretty tight not to be able to read the goodnatured jabbing in my email. OK, fair enough. You're right I didn't catch the "good-natured jabbing" in your post and took it too seriously (maybe a "smiley" intead of the "anger flame guy" would have helped??). I apologize.

You are right that this is an important issue and everyone should get on board.

[cheROCKee]

Sent mine. I drove out there 3 days after it opened. That was one of the hardest things to look at. Some people........ Never mind.

[SNOWMAN]

UPDATE* UPDATE*

I received this back from Dana Butler
-------------------------------------
Thank you for responding.

The current Roads Analysis is not a decision document. Sometime this late
summer or fall is when a formal NEPA decision project will occur at which
point the roads could be considered for closure. We will be taking
additional public input then. This initial team will not be closing any
roads, we are simply taking in public comments and trying to do a balancing
act of not violating various state and federal water quality and road
density laws while meeting the needs of the public. We do appreciate your
input and will keep you updated with the progress of the analysis.

Dana Butler

[Coloranger]

Sent in my message.... graemlins/old_glory.gif

[79CJLongmont]

Sent my email... Thanks for bringing the issue to my attention, MountainJeep!

[Offender90]

My e-mail went out a few minutes ago. Thanks for the heads up Mtnjeep.

[Lil_Mule]

sent mine, here's another variation

Hello Dana,

My name is Vincent Grimard and I belong to several clubs in the area that are concened about the Hayman Fire area. I would like to be kept informed about the road analysis project for the Hayman burn area. I also would like to let you know just how important the Hackett Gulch road, Longwater Gulch, Metberry Gulch, Forest Road 360, along with the 717 trail system, are to me and my family.

I've been living in Colorado for five years now and have not lost the awe inspiring feeling I get when I can experience areas such as these. More importantly, because of this feeling, I and many others go out of our way to follow every rule with regard to our hobbies, enforce them while on the trail, and chastise anyone who dares to claim that they broke the rules of tread lightly. As an avid mountain biker, hiker, camper, 4x4 er, and dirt bikers, these areas are very valuable to us. I was devastated last year while the fires were burning, and continue to be amazed by the stupidity of humans that don't just get it.... or seem to take these areas for granted. I don?t wish to be limited because of the stupidity of a few.

When I travel in these areas, I carry a fire extinquisher just in case, and so do a vast number of the 4x4ers that use these areas.

Before the decision is made, I ask you to explore all options. If we need volunteers there are plenty of local clubs that will help. If we need part time rangers or a forest watch program, then we can make it happen. Please do not use the burn as an excuse to close any roads or trails in the area.

If you could factor in my comments with your analysis I would be grateful. Please do your best to keep me informed concerning any way that I can help in keeping these roads and trails open and sustainable.

Vincent Grimard

[Neil was Buck]

Just sent an E-mail, thanks for the heads up and the link. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[Butt Head]

yup. me too.

[danlfx4]

Hello Dana,

I would like to express my opinion about the future of existing FS roads in the Hayman burn area as they relate to the Hayman Road Analysis Project. Please include my comments in the analysis when public opinion is being accepted.

I would like to see all roads that have been closed as a result of the fire reopened to their original use. Furthermore, I would like to have any roads that were closed prior to the fire opened for recreational use. I understand that these roads may need to remain closed until such time that the area has stabilized, but I would ask that the NFS consider this area for reopening as soon as reasonable stabilization has been achieved. Allowing the public to enter these areas, under controlled conditions such as "road travel only", or "designated use areas" would allow access to less sensitive and more stable areas of the Hayman Burn Area in the future. I would even suggest that because of the devastation more roads should be opened or created which would allow easier access to Fire prevention and emergency vehicles. Greater access into larger areas might prevent this type of disaster in the future. It is clear to me that this situation could have been avoided somewhat if more vehicular access was made available. The last 40 years of Fire fighting in the forested areas of this country, without proper clearing, has resulted in a situation in which more and more fires can occur. Controlled burning is the key to preventing massive fires such as the Hayman burn. In my opinion more FS routes and trails would serve as good fire barriers and would greatly enhance recreational opportunities.

Regarding FS 360, Metberry Gulch, Hackett Gulch and Longwater Gulch. The majority of off-highway 4x4 users are much more aware and appreciative of our privileges when it comes to the use of these types of roads. As you are no doubt aware, organized 4x4 clubs are very instrumental in maintaining and keeping some of these areas clean and usable.

I appreciate your time and the chance to voice my opinion.

[HR98TJ]

Sent mine. Thanks
smile.gif

[Jason & Monica]

Sent mine