Daily Camera has article on LeftHand investigation

[JeepGirl]

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/mtn_towns_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2428_2366835,00.html

[Joker]

Good Find...I'm glad they found the person responsible for the destruction.

[kwyjibo]

Last line in the article;
"This is among the most intensely used OHV areas in the country, especially by motorized users," Walsh said. "I've never seen anything like this."

The ONLY solution is to establish designated areas for OHV use, the more roads that are restricted to OHV use (as is the case in Boulder county) the more people are going to be concentrated in one area. That's just plain simple.

[SSII]

It read to me that they are seeing if they could get out of prosecuting the offender and leave the area as it stands under the pretext of costing to much to restore it to the prevandlized state. I'm very suspicious.

[JIMMYJ TJ]

Anyone willing to meet up there with chainsaws and clear the area ourselves? I have used the trail many times and would be willing to spend a day or two laboring to maintain it.

[SSII]

I read what the investagator said, once again. It read like to me that they have no desire to reopen that section of trail. It seems to me that they are probably going to act for the residents demands by doing nothing.
Thats how I interpret the statements by the persons interviewed.
Just my opinon.
If "I" was to reopen a area as this. I would first takes pics and develop a operational plan. Plan what action would be performed 1st. "I" would be very quiet. Have lookouts. Sentrys, properly placed, that just happened to wear their hunting Camo could let you know if you was being too loud and could forwarn of the approaching Nazis. I would start from the bottom, during a weekday, with only hand saws that would be hard to hear and after every thing was cut loose, either move the trees out of the way by hand, horse or winch. Trees do skid downhill pretty easy too.
Its just a Crazy Idea though. graemlins/rasta.gif

[cleanbike]

"There may or may not be a crime" Jones said.
!!!!?????!!!!!! OH REALLY? IS THAT SO????
And just how can ANYONE take one look at
what happened up there and NOT see a CRIME???? JD

[karstman]

Good lord I hate spin...

"Jones said the damage resulted from long-standing conflicts between private property owners in the area and off-roaders who use roads that cut across those private properties."

Ummm....seems to me the damage actually resulted from a person operating a bulldozer, period.

[Jeff Mason]

Originally posted by cleanbike:
"There may or may not be a crime" Jones said.
!!!!?????!!!!!! OH REALLY? IS THAT SO????
And just how can ANYONE take one look at
what happened up there and NOT see a CRIME???? JD Pretty easily actually. IF they determine that the felled trees and associated holes and trenches were ALL committed on PRIVATE PROPERTY, then the priveate landowner has probably broken no laws. IF there was intent to cut down a tree on PRIVATE PROPERTY to bar the use of a PUBLIC ROW OR TRAIL, then there's most likely a law being broken. I can cut down the trees on my own property pretty much as I need, but if I cut them down, and they fall across a public road, and I take no action to rectify, I would expect some sort of municipal/county/state/federal action would come up against me.

[cleanbike]

The crime I was speaking of has more to do with moral and ethical issues, as well as what it takes to put the CIVIL into the word civilization.
I think it's time someone went down to the proper government office (I believe it's the County Assessor's) and find out EXACTLY what IS and is NOT private property up there. They have official maps and deeds and the information is available to the public. (This should not be confused with "mining claims"). With that information in hand, and a GPS, that should be the final answer to the question. Since those roads have been open and in use for more than 20 years it really doesn't matter according to Colorado law, though. Closing off hundreds of acres of National Forest that has been accessed by these routes for decades, and trying to turn it into their own private back yard, is as big or bigger of a crime, and what we're really talking about here. JD

[ October 22, 2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: cleanbike ]

[vb]

the forest service has already done this. i bet if you petition under foi and did not ask for anything concerning the tree cuting case just the boundries that you could get exactly the same information that they are working off of. as i said . they already know the answer

[cleanbike]

Then I guess we're at the point where we have to wait (days, months? NOT years) to see if they decide to "do the right thing". JD

[SSII]

Originally posted by cleanbike:
Then I guess we're at the point where we have to wait (days, months? NOT years) to see if they decide to "do the right thing". JD DING DING DING. WE HAVE A WINNER!!! Excactly.
Thats "IF" they do decide and "IF" they ever do repair the damage. They will probably drag out the issue all winter and part of the next year. Then come to the conclusion to leave it closed. Hopefully by then, the rage over the area by the EVIL offroaders will have died down and been forgotten.
When I lived in Id and Mt. The F.S. would close roads under the pretext of "Elk winter calving grounds" starting around Sept.. The sneaky thing is, some roads would never get ungated again the following year!!! That way they could close a road without PUBLIC input. See how this shit works? :mad:
Also its like like VB said. They already know if the damage was performed on public or private lands. They have markers everywhere. Thats how I used to verify where I was at on a map by using their markers. Thats before the GPS days.

[Lounge Lizard]

"Boulder Ranger District senior ranger Christine Walsh said she was researching whether the roads cut off by the blockages were created origanally as fire breaks.

She added that while the forest service plans to stabilize the soils around the blockages to prevent erosion this winter, cleaning the trees and filling in the trenches would take far more work and heavy equipment. She called that task much more optional."

HEY CHRISTINE WALSH, WHY DON'T YOU GET THE SOB WHO DID THIS TO FURNISH HIS FREEKIN HEAVY EQUIPMENT TO CLEAN IT UP INSTEAD OF US TAX PAYERS FOOTING THE BILL!!!! HEY, THER'ES AN IDEA!!!!! graemlins/bounce3.gif graemlins/bounce3.gif graemlins/bounce3.gif graemlins/bounce3.gif

[Ryan Travis Robinson]

How many of you guys have been up there and seen the destruction? It is herendous

[Lounge Lizard]

I'm afraid to go near that place, and getting blamed for being the one that caused the damage. Hell, on DarkEndevours@eetme.com they're allready to shoot to kill Snotty and any one else that travels within a qtr. mile of they're property! :eek: :eek: :eek: Nice forum site! graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/flipoff.gif

[Yeeper]

I know I'll be strapped the next time I go up there!

[dumass]

Under the Patriot Act the person responsible should be prosecuted for Domestic Terrorism. One of you locals should pursue this through the local contact for Homeland Security. Eco Terrorism is just that: TERRORISM!

[Snotty]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard:
Hell, on DarkEndevours@eetme.com they're allready to shoot to kill Snotty and any one else that travels within a qtr. mile of they're property! :eek: :eek: :eek: Nice forum site! graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/flipoff.gif Yeah, I make friends where ever I go! Fawking tools. That Pondo person is a total idiot. Yeah dumbass, go ahead and let your kids in the middle of ROW. I am pretty sure Darwin is at work in that Deliverence sequal.

[Grandpa Jeep]

Originally posted by Snotty:
Yeah, I make friends where ever I go! Fawking tools. That Pondo person is a total idiot. Yeah dumbass, go ahead and let your kids in the middle of ROW. I am pretty sure Darwin is at work in that Deliverence sequal. Yeah, Pondo's an idiot. Unfortunately I think he's also a US Congressman.

http://www.richardpombo.com/bio.htm

Edit: Maybe not. I just noticed the spelling is different. Still it sounds like him.

[Malamute]

What does DaJudge think about all of this?

I'm sure you know more about what most of these people think they know about this issue. Do you have a take on this?

If you don't want your thoughts to be public, I understand. Just figured that someone who actually knows something about the judicial system might have a little more insight than the rest of us.

[Lounge Lizard]

Yo Snotty, I can't believe that you tried to reason with that Pondo moron as long as you did. It was very evident that he new it all and thats the way it was going to be no matter how many facts you threw his way or how nice you tried to be with the dooozh bag........ :eek: :eek:

Being the holder of a CCW permit I can guarantee you one thing, I know who's side the law would be on if one of those loony self proclaimed ecoliberators come running down a trail that we happen to be on, waving a firearm around, and got his ass shot.......... graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Snotty:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lounge Lizard:
Hell, on DarkEndevours@eetme.com they're allready to shoot to kill Snotty and any one else that travels within a qtr. mile of they're property! :eek: :eek: :eek: Nice forum site! graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/flipoff.gif Yeah, I make friends where ever I go! Fawking tools. That Pondo person is a total idiot. Yeah dumbass, go ahead and let your kids in the middle of ROW. I am pretty sure Darwin is at work in that Deliverence sequal. </font>[/QUOTE]snotty,those ppl on the other thread ade wayyyy too stupid.they must not have any weapons,as they know nothing of the proper use of them.like any of us would drive through a fence then go wheeling.i swear...............

[93PowerRam]

Cant we just do one of those adopt a highway things and just clean the place up? graemlins/rasta.gif

J/K

But isn't there a way for upstanding citizens to help the forest service out by cleaning that place up.....

[ October 29, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: 93PowerRam ]

[vb]

skip that. lets lobby to just let the forrest burn. it is the same stance that tws and sierra club and others advocate, they say "let nature run its course" also there are others that complain that the burden on the tax payer is to high to protect the elite that build homes in the tinder box forest. lets just have these clowns sign off on an agreement that noone (not fire trucks or emergancy vehicles of any kind) will travel on their property and then lets vacate the remaining county roads that they use to get to their property and force them to use helicopters. after all why should any of the roads up there (astablished under the same grant)be used be anyone. in other words - lets not stop at just their property line . let obliterate all the roads at the edge of town. its no differant then what they are doing it would just at that point effect them in a way that im sure they would not like (give em a taste of the same med)
IDIOTS

[Snotty]

I don't think they are stupid. I think most are angry because of the lack of respect they are shown.

Some of them are there simply trying to get a response and say, "see they are all assholes".

Some people like Nederland erk me because he/she won't do the research. I dropped just enough mis-information to to see if he/she would question me and back it up with proof. Not once...

Pondo is just looking for a reaction. Sort of like a little kid in the super market that throws a temper tauntrum to get attention.

As my Dad used to say, "Stupid kids"...

[vb]

they dont get my respect. and dont deserve it.
the road is a public road, the laws have been in place for over 100 years. these folks are able to move to the woods and then they want to close the door behind them once they made it. and then rewrite history. did you know that mark and maya yet again changed ownership of their properties up there. this time about the only thing i can see (besides the change from their irrevolcable trust to them individually) is that the space where the deed says
"also known by street and number as:"
there used to be an adress in that spot and all the addresses where ---- county road 87 (in other words the adress was part of the proof that the county road went all the way through)
they have seen fit to now place "none" in that spot.
they are changeing history and the facts .
the chamberlains bought property with a county road through it!!!!!!!!
cowboy up folks. either learn to live with john q public or sell the place and go find one that suits you better. it is that simple
these people are in every way IDIOTS and never will get my respect. the fact that they LIE and TWIST and SPIN ever part of what they are doing tells me that these are bad people
all 4 sides of my family homesteaded this state under these laws. my parents were born here and my sister and i were born here. my grandmothers grandmother came out as far as kanses in the mid 1800s she kept a great and detailed record of the trip from a town that no longer exist in ohio. the money that was spent what on, what was brought with, what was left behind, what was expected, what was found, this is my haritage. these thoughtless puny idiots have money and not a lick od sense or a clue of right and wrong. we already suspect that boslogh actually suffers from a mental problem that prevents him from being able to desern truth vs lie. i suspect the chaimberlains have no scrupples either and whoever the land owner is that downed all the trees at fairview sees only his wants and yet is a coward since hes not stood to admit that he did the deed. not a one of these folks as traights worthy of anything but contempt

[ October 28, 2003, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: vb ]

[Snotty]

VB, I am not talking about the Bolsough's or the Chamberlains. I am talking about property owners that have valid problems with trespassing and lack of respect by OHV users that can't and don't stay on properly marked trails.

See my last post on DE... Mark's actions are quite clear and has zero respect from me.

[Hairy]

Originally posted by vb:
skip that. lets lobby to just let the forrest burn. it is the same stance that tws and sierra club and others advocate, they say "let nature run its course" also there are others that complain that the burden on the tax payer is to high to protect the elite that build homes in the tinder box forest. lets just have these clowns sign off on an agreement that noone (not fire trucks or emergancy vehicles of any kind) will travel on their property and then lets vacate the remaining county roads that they use to get to their property and force them to use helicopters. after all why should any of the roads up there (astablished under the same grant)be used be anyone. in other words - lets not stop at just their property line . let obliterate all the roads at the edge of town. its no differant then what they are doing it would just at that point effect them in a way that im sure they would not like (give em a taste of the same med)
IDIOTS Yipes, be careful here, hope ya got a goog alibi for this mornin.

[vb]

too funny uh! careful what you wish for? heck i wasnt wishin this on em at all.
how strange is it that this would be hapnin.
im wanderin what we'll here from the clown now?
i really do hope that the fs and the firefighters can get this contained in a hurry. not only could we loss a place to play but folks could lose lots of hard work .
i hope that when its over that the volinteers will be there for the clean up. we cant go fight the fire. but we might be able to help in the after math
not worried about an alabi
i was far away . id like to know where knobby was though. unless as stated before that it was a known cause already. if it is suspiciuos i would not put it past him to make use of my post

[vb]

besides ,its tws and sierra club amoug others that claim that fire mitagation is bad. bosloughs claims to be an environmentaly concious feller. surely he does not mind nature takeing its course. and who ever blocked the roads will all the destruction. surely that person is not regreting the fact that the only way out of the nieghbor hood is to head west into the previaling winds. i really wonder how this fire lays out. the if 87j is in the line of the fire there are folks traped potentually.
i actually had a reporter from the camera send me an email saying that based on the above post that "some people" were saying that i did the fire.
wonder who "some people" is/are .read the post i am not saying that any of those positions are mine. i am showing the absurdity of the stance of the green groups and stupid property owners that like to obstruct public roads.
in a way i do hope that this fire will at least shine a light in their eyes. whether they chose to see it is another story

[Grandpa Jeep]

vb, Do you know where the fire is in relation to the lefthand blockage and BDT? I'm curious if either of those is going to block escape routes or fire equipment. If so, I hope Boslough and whoever knocked down the trees get sued over it. Hopefully no one will die because of it.

[vb]

no sir i do not. if the fire started on the west side of 87 then it had to jump 87 to get to jamestown and denver school property. which would mean that anyone up (north of ) the fire is indeed trapped because of boslough
the location of the overland is roughly 87j which means that previaling winds could push it straight down 87j and right through the downed trees. which means that those folks if any are up there would not be able to escape out the blockage. however there is one place that they could drive through private property not on a road and conect with upper left hand . hopefully if they are trapped they can find that out. im just not sure whats burning and where. but its all close to the areas of the battle and if situation was just wrong it could be serious. the hope is they know their area as well as i do. im wondering if the property that i was trying to buy is burning. it should be close. im sitin at dads watchin from time to time and think that i see flames on the back side of fairview and or fireman i know they said that embers flew and egnited 4 miles east which would be close to the carnage intrance??????

[Colo.TJ]

I just heard on the news that the fire was man made. Wouldn't say anything more.
I hope that someone didn't read your post (VB) yesterday and said "Hey. Now we can get Vernon by starting a fire."

[vb]

the camera sent me an email saying that "some people" had suggested that i had and they asked me point blank if i did it. i wonder also if someone is trying a set up type thisng. what a deal that would be. i hope they catch the person. i had heard however that it was a power line downed by wind

[Lounge Lizard]

I heard that it was started by some powerline/transformer problems, but leave it to those idiots so start blaming everyone else for they're ignorance and stupidity.

I hope everyone made it out safely, but on the otherhand I hope the doo$hbag that did all of the tree pushing, looked out his window and thought "man, that was kind of stupid to block of that road!", DOOOOOOPE! graemlins/bounce4.gif graemlins/bounce4.gif
graemlins/bounce4.gif graemlins/bounce4.gif graemlins/bounce4.gif graemlins/bounce4.gif
I pray for the firefighters tonight thats forsure! graemlins/old_glory.gif graemlins/old_glory.gif graemlins/old_glory.gif graemlins/old_glory.gif graemlins/old_glory.gif

[Hairy]

Originally posted by vb:
the camera sent me an email saying that "some people" had suggested that i had and they asked me point blank if i did it. that's what I mean the spinin will begin on this specialy from a commie paper like the camera :mad:

[Trango]

Originally posted by vb:
skip that. lets lobby to just let the forrest burn. it is the same stance that tws and sierra club and others advocate, they say "let nature run its course" also there are others that complain that the burden on the tax payer is to high to protect the elite that build homes in the tinder box forest. lets just have these clowns sign off on an agreement that noone (not fire trucks or emergancy vehicles of any kind) will travel on their property and then lets vacate the remaining county roads that they use to get to their property and force them to use helicopters. after all why should any of the roads up there (astablished under the same grant)be used be anyone. in other words - lets not stop at just their property line . let obliterate all the roads at the edge of town. its no differant then what they are doing it would just at that point effect them in a way that im sure they would not like (give em a taste of the same med)
IDIOTS VB, thank god Columbo is on the case to save you from your own sarcasm.

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/county_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2423_2400739,00.html

What a total weirdo. I think they call this type of lying "pathological", right?

Bob

[Eric]

Good ol' Mark, that article is another good example of his smear campaign against Vernon.

</font> A private land owner levels hundreds of trees and what does Mark say? "Vernon did it!!!".</font> A power line gets blown down in a wind storm sparking a fire and what does Mark say? "Vernon did it!!!".</font>

:rolleyes: Looks like the Nasdaq is down this morning, I'm just waiting for Mark to chime in and say "Vernon did it!!!". Very professional Mark.... veeeeeeeery professional graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

Hopefully some good will come out of Mark's ill-intentions. The Camera did post the CO4x4 address so hopefully some readers will visit these forums for the other, truthful side of the story.

[Gunter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric:
[QB] Good ol' Mark, that article is another good example of his smear campaign against Vernon.

</font> A private land owner levels hundreds of trees and what does Mark say? "Vernon did it!!!".</font> A power line gets blown down in a wind storm sparking a fire and what does Mark say? "Vernon did it!!!".</font>


:rolleyes: Looks like the Nasdaq is down this morning, I'm just waiting for Mark to chime in and say "Vernon did it!!!".
so,by that reasoning,even though i know better,when my tj got hit last week,Vernon really did it?LOL just kiddn ,makes me sick to see him blame everything on VB.i bet VB brought that cool weather last week too..........

[Jeff Mason]

From the link above:

"The Forest Service is monitoring the four-by-four Web site, the Sheriff's Office said."

I wonder if they've signed up as new members, or are just lurking???

[Eric]

Hopefully they'll sign up, that would be great to have some Forest Service personel participating around here. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[Lounge Lizard]

Damn. My jeep has an oil leak, and I aint been laid in 6 months: "Vernon Did It"
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: graemlins/thefinger.gif

[bsaunder]

Originally posted by Eric:
Hopefully they'll sign up, that would be great to have some Forest Service personel participating around here. graemlins/thumbsup.gif Amen - they'd be a welcome addition! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[Dave McDonald]

Originally posted by bsaunder:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eric:
Hopefully they'll sign up, that would be great to have some Forest Service personel participating around here. graemlins/thumbsup.gif Amen - they'd be a welcome addition! graemlins/thumbsup.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Can you imagine? First hand information. easy and informal exchange of ideas with Foresters and Law Enforcement...

Call me a pessimist, but I'm bettin they'll never post. The liability they'd be taking on by posting a position on a topic is staggering.

Fer instance - I can post that the land owner that downed all the tress and dug the trenches should be hung upside down by his nuts from a 100 year old pine tree and spanked soundly with the bucket on his backhoe. If someone employed in an official position even posted that they thought "the land owner - if found guilty - should be punished" It'd prolly cost them their job.


Dave

[coexplorer94]

Not if they don't state that they are a forest service agent. No one can fire you for a personal opinion.

[colorado phil]

Originally posted by vb:
the camera sent me an email saying that "some people" had suggested that i had and they asked me point blank if i did it. i wonder also if someone is trying a set up type thisng. what a deal that would be. i hope they catch the person. i had heard however that it was a power line downed by wind I know it's stupid to even ask if the camera asked Boslough if his story was made up and if he cut down the trees and destroyed the roads.
How can the camera pretend to be a newspaper and violate all journalistic ethics? I read right after the fire started that the "authorities" said it was caused by a downed power line. If the camera or Boslough reads this they should consider things caused libel and slander.

[colorado phil]

Originally posted by Jeff Mason:
From the link above:

"The Forest Service is monitoring the four-by-four Web site, the Sheriff's Office said."

I wonder if they've signed up as new members, or are just lurking??? Maybe the sheriffs office should monitor Boslough and the staff of the camera. It might be more productive. Let them monitor those of us who care about the trails and the forests and want to keep them safe and open for everyone to use instead of the landowners who would do anything legal or illegal to block the forests to everyone but their neighbors. Do you suppose the sherrifs office is also monitoring mountain biking sites and hiking sites. It seems the landowners don't want anybody to see the forests and the roads and the mountains except them. I think they are the dangerous ones.