another barking dog fight?

[Butt Head]

Daily camera today.

TRESPASS

'Public' road rule leads to slaughter

Iam so sad and depressed. Hunters now are using a "road" on our property and have come up and shot some does. I am hoping that it is not one of the does who felt so comfortable and at home with us that she kept eating while we watched her from under our portico.

These big overweight guys drove onto our property and probably waited for the deer to come close to the car. It is almost like these guys took out their bow and arrow out on a dog or cat. That is how tame these deer are.

And to think that they use my property for access, using the federal RS2477 rule to facilitate this slaughter makes me cringe.They totally ignore the "no weapons, no hunting" signs! There are at least two kills this week.

For a road to be public when there is dissent from a property owner there needs to be a court decree. The only other way is through dedication and acceptance. I guess that these hunters, like everyone else, do not care about this fact.

RS2477, which creates roads across open space, wilderness and private property is insane. It was originally formulated for property owners to have access to their own properties, but now most people think of it as a way to force a walking trail, biking trail or horse trail, but this also allows for jeepers, hunters, motorcycles, etc. It allows for any road considered an RS2477 to be made into a 60-foot-wide paved highway! Perfect for logging and two-way traffic! This statute basically says that any access across a public land is a public highway.

This means that virtually all mining claims then have a "public" road going to it, and also all homesteads. So think of all the mining claims out there and the properties that were created around them. All those properties have public roads on them, even if the private-property owner is the only one who has maintained them. Now think about all the open space and wilderness areas out there (even creek beds can be a road!)

I have formed a group of people against RS2477. If you know of anyone who is having problems with trespassers, please have them call me at (303) 441-5682. We are close to 20 families strong and are now nationwide. Please feel free to call me also if you are just concerned due to environmental reasons.

AJ CHAMBERLIN, Sugarloaf

[brian468]

the screwed up part is that this guy was probably not gonna say anything about the jeepers and bike riders using the road, but then some rednecks had to go shoot bambi, isn`t it illegal to shoot from a road in colorado? i know the only you can out here is if your a disabled vet, stupid people screw everything up for the rest of us, i wish stupidity killed more often.

[vb]

the screwed up part is that this broad has formed a group and she knows nothing about what she is talking about. i got as far as the part where she says the 2477 creates roads and from there just scanned. 2477 does not create roads and has not since 1976. any roads created prior to that are public roads and if someone lives near or buys a property near one of those they should be aware that the public will use the road.
i think there is a word for stupid broads like this. o yeah IDIOT!!!!!

[Comfortably Numb]

It says that the hunters used the public road crossing private property to get to public lands to legally hunt. This isn't really about the road, it's about hunting. Nothing in the article says the deer were taken on private property.

This is the latest tactic being used by anti hunters, close the roads & cut off access & they effectively eliminate hunting.

The person who wrote it has all but admitted in writing that they were illegally feeding wildlife. Deer only get used to being around people when they are fed. They probably think they know all about wildlife management too.

[Colo.TJ]

Don't move next to the airport and start complianing about the airplanes.

[bsaunder]

I doubt that she realizes it will take a congressional act to repeal RS2477, and unless it is found to be unconstitutional, I doubt the act will be repealed. This is just another tear-jerk attempt by an anti ? ?everything we don?t fully agree with or understand, so it must be bad ? and/or we?re better than everyone else and only we have the right to use and appreciate the land around us? groups.

Secondly - she is more than slightly biased against hunters and goes out of her way to sterotypify the "bad" hunter; I doubt with any knowledge of what actually happened.

Thirdly - if the deer was so tame that it could be likened to a dog or cat, then its natural instincts were suppressed from feeding by the property owner's etc; which puts the deer in mortal danger already. So in essence, they can thank themselves for the deer being killed, if they had not illegally fed it, it wouldn't have been so easy to kill.

[Big Dave]

Originally posted by bsaunder:

Thirdly - if the deer was so tame that it could be likened to a dog or cat, then its natural instincts were suppressed from feeding by the property owner's etc; which puts the deer in mortal danger already. So in essence, they can thank themselves for the deer being killed, if they had not illegally fed it, it wouldn't have been so easy to kill. Ditto. If they were feeding the deer like it was a pet, they did more harm to the animal than a hunter ever could. Quick death from bullet or arrow, or a slow painful death from starvation? Wonder which this person would rather their beloved deer endure?

[Snotty]

There is an island over in the carolinas that now has a large problem with Limes Disease. Why? Becasue they knocked off the natural predators and the deer are running rampant. The deer carry the tick responsible for Lime Disease.

Scott County park is having a problem with deer overpopulation. Why? Again, because they killed off all the natural predators, and have allowed the deer a safe haven in the park. The deer are now so over populated that they are starving to death. The feel gooders feed the deer and the deer have forgotten how to forage for food as well. The deer will come right up to you looking for food.

The end result of this issue is that now the Park Service has to have a canned hunt twice a year just to keep the population in check and the gene pool properly mixed. When will these damn greenies take responsiblity for thier actions and recognize that they are causing more harm to the natural environment then anyone else?

No trials to help protect from fires. Then they scream about the fires.

No wild animals that may hurt the stupid camper so we kill or move the animals they don't like.

Feed the cute cuddly animals becasue they like them and they are so cute, but never mind that we destroy the natural fight or flee reflex that is critical to the animals survival.

Get rid of all the natural predators and eliminate hunting so we can starve the animals in winter and water the gene pool down to the point that there is no more natural selection.

Let's distort the laws so much so no one can make a realistic decision based on fact.

The above article is written so much ignorance it is unbelivable. As I know some of these people and their agenda, that I am certain that they are not above lying to serve their cause.

Someone needs to bitch slap these people and get them to wake up. They are causing more environmental harm in their devine effort to save the world. Some of them to point of extreme and there is nothing that will get them to see fact. Even when you point out the flaws such as the case with the Scott County Park. The damn greenies are against the canned hunt and think we should leave the deer alone. Because they are cute and cuddley and they don't threatend by them. I guess they are cute and cuddley when they are starving to death as well...

[Yeeper]

Originally posted by Colo.TJ:
Don't move next to the airport and start complianing about the airplanes. Amen brother! graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/beer.gif

[79CJLongmont]

Maybe each any every one of us should find an extra 30mins one day and call this lady. Hear her out and see what she has to say while acting like you are on her side, then blast her whole lop-sided idiotic argument. Don't be rude or condescinding, just make her feel like a moron!!!

I'll be placing my call first chance I get.

BTW, I don't expect this to accomplish anything, it would just be fun to be able to laugh in her face!

[MaddMatt]

Ok Folks, you got me riled up enough to register on the forum. I usually lurk since I spend enough time on the Cottora board and 4X4wire that I didn't feel like I needed to register for something else, but I finally felt like I had to say something.

First here's some background. Born and raised in the mountains west of Denver, I've lived in the area all of my 30 something years. I've been 4wheeling since I was an infant and learned to drive in my dad's Scout when I was 12, and I sure as hell didn't do that on public roads. I don't hunt myself, but have a taste for venison, elk and anything else that didn't come from King Soopers. I also ski, snowboard, mtn bike, hike, camp, play with my kids and pay my taxes, and am a proud supporter of the other PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals). In short, I'm on your side.

But here's my point. Most of you guys are doing the same thing to this woman that she's doing to you. You're jumping all over the place trying to mold her arguments into something you can hate. I don't know her or her property, but I can bet that while she is probably against hunting, she probably knew that hunting goes on up there when she moved in. Do you really think it was this one instance that drove her to write her letter?

I'm sure it had more to do with the years of picking up broken beer bottles and other trash, not just from her own property but from anyplace in the woods she's tried to go within the last 5 years.

Here's the deal. The woods within a two hour drive of Denver are trashed. I am rarely able to go anywhere that I don't have to spend 30 minutes picking up broken glass and shotgun shells before I can let my dogs and kids out of the car. I promise you that I'm not limiting myself to trail heads off I70, after 30+ years of living here, I know a couple other places as well.

Now for 2 minutes put yourself in her shoes, assume you don't choose to 4wheel, but every time you try to spend some time in the mountains you're surrounded by trash, and you have to stop your hike so 6 POS jeeps with headers and straight pipes can drive buy, and then 3 kids on 4 wheelers come down the trail going way too fast, etc....

It doesn't take much to see why people are pissed off, and they are going to seize any opportunity they can to try, in their eyes, to fix the situation. Like it or not, our trucks are relatively big and loud, and they tend to accidentally make a mess in the most pristine places. That makes them easy targets. Those morons with the radio station a couple years ago didn't help either, people remember that stuff for a long time. I myself left an entire exhaust system in a mud pit on the west side Rollins pass that I'm still looking for. Didn't mean to do it, but it happens.

So rather than get your redneck dander up, and waste 30 minutes of her time by pretending to be somebody you're not, call her up and do something positive. Offer to help clean her land where the road crosses it. Help her hang some signs indicating where public access ends and her land begins. Then clean up some land she doesn't own, and let her know that you did it. The only way to fight a negative stereotype is by being a postive one. Look at what the landcruiser guys did with the Hayman burn area. Or just do what I do. Carry a damn trash bag with you everywhere you go, and fill it before you leave. It will take 10 minutes of your precious time, and the best way to get invited back someplace is to leave it better than you found it.
The end.
MaddMatt

[landcruiser]

This isn't the first time butthead has invaded this site with bitches about other peoples harmless hobbies, ie: dirt bikes, go move into a retirement home butthead you'll be much happier, or maybe not :D .

[Butt Head]

Originally posted by landcruiser:
This isn't the first time butthead has invaded this site with bitches about other peoples harmless hobbies, ie: dirt bikes, go move into a retirement home butthead you'll be much happier, or maybe not :D . Dirt bikes ain't harmless and the little snots that ride em outa be throwed in jail when they ride on private property. And Madd Matt ain't me. he's probly Mark Boslough. :D

[bsaunder]

MaddMatt isn't Mark - he actually made some reasonable points, Mark is unable to do so concerning this subject..

While I don't fully agree with all that MaddMatt has to say - he does make some good points, ie we need to educate the "ignorant" not beat their heads till they see the light. Its hard to take the high road, but we need to do it. I'll agree that one of my first reactions when I come across someone who is vehemently against OHV use and spreading lies and stereotypes is to get in their face and tell them how wrong they are. If instead we find out why they think what they do and try to calmly have a conversation with them, we're more likely to show them that we are not the monsters they thought we were.

Do I think that the author of the letter is just mis-imformed? - not fully, I think it was deliberatly worded as it was, but I may be wrong.

[vb]

let us know what's redneck about being sharper the the lady? she does not no what 2477 is and bought property on a public road, even though she does not want to be close to the public. just those two things are enough for me to no that she is an
IDIOT
and will continue to spew mis information. and as the others pointed out the broad seems to be close to admiting to inticeing the animals to hang around some how...
btw that is illegal

[Lounge Lizard]

graemlins/bounce3.gif If this beeotch had something to say why does'nt she just say it and get on. Do you really think that anyone is going to take her serious when she says crap like "some overweight guys probably" key word probably! Go buy some no hunting signs and knock yourself out. I don't know about other wheelers, but when a sign says keep out, I keep out. I'm sure most of us do. Don't make us all out to be Bambie killers to get your freeken point accross............ graemlins/old_glory.gif And like VB says, it might help to know a little about what yur bitching about when you bitch.

There are a lot of moron people out there on BOTH sides of this deal, but we can only police our side with education and a trash bag, which I see this group doing all of the time... Butthead should run for Boulder city manager......... graemlins/old_glory.gif

[fastfxr]

Matt is RIGHT. Since I've been here in Colorado I've seen pathetic rigs on the trails and pathetic people in them. Now I'm not saying it's anyone here on this board, but they're out there and they are the ones that are creating the problems.

Don't be such dicks. Matt is right on the money.

[Snotty]

First of all, I can't stand it when people lurk and then "sign up" because of something that we said. This is a community of people with opinions and if the only reason that you feel you need to post here is complain or argue but not participate, that says something to me about you. You are not here to provide useful insight or debate about anything. It would appear that you have an agenda and nothing else.

I also take offense to people that feel they have to state that they "did this or do that" in regards to our hobby. One could assume that you are here based on these facts without having to have them stated.

Your post MaddMatt is much the same as KB's was. "I did this and I do that" so that validates me. Well, not really.

Anyway, some of the guys on here do get a little carried away, but I really doubt that they would follow through with it. Its simply voicing frustraions and nothing else. We all do it at sometime and yes it can does get taken out of context.

Lastly, I re-read the article to make sure I didn't miss somthing. As far as I can tell the owner in the article/letter says nothing about trash. The feel of the letter is that they are appaled about the Hunters getting access to Bambi via a public ROW across private property. They do not state that bambi was taken on their property but infer that was. Leaving it up to the reader to decide where the deer was taken with just enough inflection to make the reader feel it was taken illegally on private property. Not very honest if you ask me.

They are incorrect about what RS2477 is and means and distorts the legislation to again try and make people feel that it is wrong.

Quite simply, the feeling I get out of the article/letter is that this person disagrees with hunters/ing and they are trying to manipulate others opinions to match theirs by piggy backing RS 2477 onto it.

gist: I hate hunting and if I can repeal RS2477 to get them to stop since there is no other means, then that is what I'll do.

Its not at all about private property rights. Its about one persons view against hunting and nothing else.

Snotty

[Butt Head]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard:
Butthead should run for Boulder city manager......... graemlins/old_glory.gif yo dude where do i apply? graemlins/thefinger.gif

[Free Thinker]

let us know what's redneck about being sharper the the lady? she does not no what 2477 is and bought property on a public road, even though she does not want to be close to the public. just those two things are enough for me to no that she is an
IDIOT
and will continue to spew mis information. and as the others pointed out the broad seems to be close to admiting to inticeing the animals to hang around some how...
btw that is illegal

Did you actually write this dribble Vernon. And you call yourself sharper than the Lady? First of all, I presume that you meant to print the word know in several places rather than "no" as you had printed it. As in you have NO brains.....just some big old truck and not much else to match it!!! I don't think any of you guys no jack about RS2477 or private property rights. And I'm certain that most of you are bad ass hunters as well, cruising up and down a road looking for an easy kill. What sportsmen! But hey, have fun and just don't get stuck.

[fastfxr]

Originally posted by Free Thinker:
Did you actually write this dribble Vernon. Let me go first!! graemlins/bounce.gif Shouldn't there be a '?' there?!?!? Haha...

[Eric]

AJ Chamberlin wrote:

These big overweight guys drove onto our property and probably waited for the deer to come close to the car. John Chamberlin wrote:

And I'm certain that most of you are bad ass hunters as well, cruising up and down a road looking for an easy kill. What sportsmen!
Wow, do these two make a great couple or what? Talk about two peas in a pod :D graemlins/laughing.gif

And John... pssst... it's "KNOW jack" ;) If you're gonna correct someone else... :rolleyes:

[ October 03, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Eric ]

[Snotty]

Originally posted by Free Thinker:
And I'm certain that most of you are bad ass hunters as well, cruising up and down a road looking for an easy kill. Actually no, I peruse the internet hunting for stupid people. And you mister Free Thinker are a prime candidate. Lock and Load boys, Free Thinker just brought down the average IQ of the internet user. We have a job to do?

[vb]

actually i laughed the last time i was on that knowone had piped up yet
welcome !!!!!!
lets talk 2477 then.
your wife has no clue , so let me ask you -- do you also believe that 2477 means that today roads will be created under that act of congress?
and while we are at it can you recite the act
in other words
tell us how the grant of right of way reads !!!!when was it inacted and as part of what, and for what purpose?????
btw i assume that when you used the word "print" that you actually ment "type" since printing is a totally differant process then that done on a computer key board.
dude there is more wrong with your post.
its a new truck and a couple year old jeep. besides what else does a guy need to "match" a big ole truck? you wear heels????
heck im sharper the you!!!! graemlins/bounce.gif

[ October 03, 2003, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: vb ]

[vb]

by the way the only types of huntin i do is for information and for old roads.

[bsaunder]

Originally posted by Free Thinker:

Did you actually write this dribble Vernon. And you call yourself sharper than the Lady? First of all, I presume that you meant to print the word know in several places rather than "no" as you had printed it. As in you have NO brains.....just some big old truck and not much else to match it!!! I don't think any of you guys no jack about RS2477 or private property rights. And I'm certain that most of you are bad ass hunters as well, cruising up and down a road looking for an easy kill. What sportsmen! But hey, have fun and just don't get stuck. Did you spend anytime researching your target? If you use the nice little search button to the upper left you can find out a lot about most of us here. There is also vast amounts of information about RS2477 and many other laws on here. If you had searched for VB, you probably could have found out about his 4x, his rig sure doesn't seem old to me.

Or is it that you have to be a poor stupid person who can't afford a new vehicle in order to hunt-- oh wait, a properly cared for older vehicle actually takes money and intelligence to maintain; especially since many of us have installed EFI and other fandangle contraptions on our vehicles and know how to maintain and properly modify them ? so that must be a compliment ? Thank you!

It has to be a big vehicle too ? well, big in relative to what? Bigger than a Honda accord ? well, yeah. Honda accords are not the most adept at negotiating a non-paved road, much less carrying anything other than the passengers it can barely contain.

Lets see - you also have to be "heavy" so by that I think you (or AJ) are trying to insinuate out-of shape and unhealthy... hum, I have hunted ducks, pheasant, quail, deer, but mostly hunt fish with a fly rod and dry fly, and I am 220lbs at only 5?10?, so I must fit your description...but wait, I can run a 11sec 100m, 23sec 200m, 23min 3mile, bench press >300lbs, play several soccer games per week, backpack multi-mile and multi-day trips for fun, and have a resting heart rate of ~40bpm - so by heavy you must mean in better shape than the statistically average person. ? Thank you again!

For the reference to RS2477 ? it should be created, not creates, the RS2477 roads were created many decades ago ? long before ?open space? and ?wilderness? in their current connotations were ever used.

If you do decide to hang around more than your one post ? you will find out that that vast majority of us are quite well educated. Quite a few of us have researched the many laws that impact our hobby and would be willing to inform you about them down to minute details. I would be quite pleased to find out that the ?average? person of your bias against ?us? is not close-minded and is willing to have an intelligent conversation about this and surrounding subjects. However, I have a hunch, unfortunately, that you will continue to prove my bias that you truly do not care about finding what the truth of the matter is, only pushing your agenda no matter how many lies and half truths you deceive others with and con your self into believing.

[ October 03, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: bsaunder ]

[vb]

atta boy ben!!! graemlins/bounce.gif graemlins/bounce2.gif

[Eric]

No need to get personal, they're welcome to share their thoughts and opinions.

Ben, nice smile.gif

[Eric]

So far he's simply displayed ignorance and taken a personal stab at VB's grammar. A little on the childish side, but it was his first post. While not the brightest way to introduce himself to the community at least the opportunity is there for him to grow up and engage in an intelligent discussion.

It was funny, just a little early in the goings for that level of "fire" :D graemlins/beer.gif

[Snotty]

Damn it Ben! I thought my posts were wordy! graemlins/thefinger.gif

I would love to see these guys come back. I need to get that 1st place posting spot. Besides, it gives me a reason to research again and brush up on my interpretation and regurgitation of the laws.

[Eric]

Originally posted by Snotty:
Besides, it gives me a reason to research again and brush up on my interpretation and regurgitation of the laws. And you know how much we love to see you regurgitate! :D Have a good weekend, I'm outta here... graemlins/beer.gif

[vb]

id like em to stop back by as well. if they have something good to bring to the table lets have at it. a genuine discusion is always welcome even if its an opposing view point. hes not the only one to point out my grammer or spelling. im the first to admit that on the net im sloppy and have never mastered spelling. was somewhat the product of being deaf and haveing teachers incurage me to "sound it out" if i cant see their lips i have no clue what letters they are useing.i never pushed that hard either, the teacher would just give up cause it was to hard for em and pass me on through. thanks to this medium i am trying to get better though. rarely in my business do i need to write.so i dont pay much attention unless the critic does no better.

[Snotty]

Originally posted by vb:
if i cant see their lips i have no clue what letters they are useing.Must be a biotch trying to figure out what were saying on the internet! graemlins/thefinger.gif

[vb]

crap!!!!!
so i should have said what letters they (the teacher) were enunciating (sp?)
wise guy- on the net i can see the letters and dont have to here em

[Butt Head]

Originally posted by vb:
crap!!!!!
so i should have said what letters they (the teacher) were enunciating (sp?)
wise guy- on the net i can see the letters and dont have to here em Far beit from me to critisize grammer and spelling but the guy was makin fun of when you mixed up NO with KNOW. so i wanna no how you can see the letter K in the techers lips when she says KNOW.

[vb]

exactly my point.i never got the basics of understanding the rules. i wish that i would have concentrated more on memory. but where i went to school at that time ????? and i wasnt interested enough to develope my own style of learning. and of course my mom (also a teacher) never knew cause the grades said i did just fine.
and of course remember that the explaination of those rules generally went right over my head since most teachers faced the board and talked as they wrote.
it would be cool to know how to spell better - good thing most folks are sharp enough to figure out my simple mind, eh?
oddly developementally i was ahead of the norm and noone even figured out that i was born this way till i was in second grade, go figure

[ October 03, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: vb ]

[Butt Head]

Originally posted by vb:
the explaination of those rules generally went right over my head since most teachers faced the board and talked as they wrote.
it would be cool to know how to spell better - good thing most folks are sharp enough to figure out my simple mind, eh?
oddly developementally i was ahead of the norm and noone even figured out that i was born this way till i was in second grade, go figure I here ya brother. i always had trouble in school and noone ever figured out why till and finally I was told I was mildly retarded. Personaly i think it had more to do with all the reefer i smoked.
:D

[vb]

i actually did well in school. just never learned to spell. french did not work for me either since the teacher tought with the aid of an old scratchy record. no good for me.
dubbed movies or comercials drive me crazey even if done in english. the lips and the sound dont match. i cant watch.
refer was junior high through high scool. aw the six graemlins/smokin.gif ties!!!

[Butt Head]

Originally posted by vb:
i actually did well in school. just never learned to spell. french did not work for me either since the teacher tought with the aid of an old scratchy record. no good for me.
dubbed movies or comercials drive me crazey even if done in english. the lips and the sound dont match. i cant watch.
refer was junior high through high scool. aw the six graemlins/smokin.gif ties!!! Well it was kinda nice to see your posts because i useta try to look ervery word up in the dictionary and it got to painfull to post cuz it took to long what with lookin up all the words and trying to get the grammer right and stuff. then i saw yours and said hey this guy don't care and everbody still respects him so why should i care. so there you have it.

[vb]

glad i could be a ---er--- uhhh role model????? i would not say i dont care . i always like to grow and get better. i just dont have the time to try to get the little stuff. the big picture is the post and if folks find my short comeings . well then. ??? im fine with being what i am. glad i could ease your burden!

[MaddMatt]

Ok guys, I debated over if I should reply or not, since this is becoming a long discussion and probably not going anywhere, but for a couple reasons decided to. Basically I think it's weak to put a statement out there and not back it up, and at the end of the day, I'm on your side.

I have some time to kill this morning, so we'll go one at a time:

From Mike Holmes:
. sounds like you should hike on hiking trails and not OHV trails. but i understand, i get mad when i have to pull over for bad attitude POS hikers to pass.
Obviously I'm not talking about dedicated OHV trails, I'm talking about my personal experiences in multi-use, National Forest and BLM lands. I'm talking about the perceived lack of respect and personal responsiblity displayed by some members of the 4X4 and ATV community. But you know that, you already said you understood what I was saying.


redneck? nice try, thanks for outting yourself as a troll. if you have lurked here as you say you would know how many here are white collar, educated, decent people.

Maybe redneck was the wrong choice of words, and since when does having a blue collar job mean somebody is uneducated? Some of the smartest people I ever met worked their asses off. Are you calling blue collar workers stupid? As for being a troll, I guess I don't spend enough time on line to be insulted by that. Try again dude.

Most of the people on here do seem well educated, but comments like 79CJ's:
Hear her out and see what she has to say while acting like you are on her side, then blast her whole lop-sided idiotic argument. Don't be rude or condescinding, just make her feel like a moron!!! are not the way to win this fight. Things like this are just going to make the general public think that we're all a bunch of violent morons. (Is that better than redneck?) Note to 79CJ, how pissed off are you right now that I just called you a moron? Does everybody get the point? You might be anonymous on the internet, but your words are there forever, and can be twisted and used by anybody to their own purposes. Think about it.

General reply: I'm not Mark or Butthead.

Reply to Snotty: I'm not going to copy your whole post, so here's the basics. 1) I'm sorry if I offended your personal definition of the internet. Unlike some people I choose to keep to myself unless I feel I can be constructive. I am on the same side as most of the people here, and I saw this discussion (and many other's like it) heading in a destructive direction, so I threw my 2cents in. I put some of my personal history up there so that people could know where I was coming from, rather than just posting a completely anonymous rant. And you're right, the writer of the letter doesn't say anything about trash. I was reading between the lines based on a lifetime's experience of living here, and making an educated guess as to what is really bothering her. Because it's bothering me. This state didn't used to be Disney land, it used to be a wild and beautiful place, and I'm not talking about the 1880's. I'm talking about the the 1970's and 80's since that's what I have personal experience with, and the wild and beautiful lands were complete with trucks and guns and hikers and campers and horses and it seemed like people took the extra ten minutes out of their day to respect other people's rights and priorities.

That's all I'm saying folks. You can't get respect without giving it. Treat people the way you want to be treated. One stupid act will be remembered and used against you far longer than 100 good things you might do, so try not to do stupid things.
-Maddmatt

[landcruiser]

The number of times i have run into disrespectful behavior offroad are byfar out numbered by the good experiences i have had with people from this board offroad, i've been wheeling since the 80s also, and although the population has drastically increased the ammount of people i run into while in the colorado wilderness i still have to say californian or not :D most of theses peolpe have been very respectful of the fact that is OUR national forest(s) we have the privelage to be using.

[vb]

That's all I'm saying folks. You can't get respect without giving it. Treat people the way you want to be treated. One stupid act will be remembered and used against you far longer than 100 good things you might do, so try not to do stupid things.
-Maddmatt


which is why i think your first post greated some problems for you
wish youd stick around and lets get aquianted. some time rough starts still turn out o k

[79CJLongmont]

I have only one more thing to add.

How can someone who has a screen name of "Free Thinker" spend their time posting such a prejudiced, narrow-minded post!? Must be one of those Boulderite types that think that if you are like them, you are great. If you are normal you are a narrow-minded goon.

Go figure, I guess your TRUE colors show all too well!!!

[Gunter]

maybe that jerk needs to find some anti hunting forum,and maybe an anti fat guy forum too.