Wheeler Lake Mistake

[74BuckinBronc]

This is another reason we should try to get involved in the greeter program. I recieved this by email. If you know who did this, handle it as you see fit, but make sure that person knows it is wrong!


From:
Sara Mayben
South Park District Ranger
PO Box 219
Fairplay, Colorado 80440
(719)836-2031

Jane Lewis reported that she was hiking up to Wheeler Lakes on Tuesday, June 22 and saw that there was some recent (probably the previous (weekend) severe damage to the meadow up by the lakes by a 4WD. She said it looked intentional because they drove all around and now there are deep, one foot deep ruts all over. She said whoever did it also tore down all the signs. She tried to prop them back up, but they may have fallen down again. She said it also looked as if they had a huge campfire. The whole area is a mess. Whoever did it was gone by the time she got there so she has no other information. FYI.


Dianna D. Barney
South Park Ranger District
Pike National Forest
P.O. Box 219, 320 Hwy 285
Fairplay, CO 80440
(719) 836-2031


Thanks! J.D.

[Hippie]

J.D.,
FYI - There is additional info on this under trip reports on my thread titled wheeler lake. I have a call in to the Dianna and am waiting for a call back to provide her with the little info I have

[HardBdyTJ]

Originally posted by Hippie:
J.D.,
FYI - There is additional info on this under trip reports on my thread titled wheeler lake. I have a call in to the Dianna and am waiting for a call back to provide her with the little info I have Len Marks asked me to post this info but it's already done so thanks for posting this. It's a sad reminder that our efforts to educate wheelers should not end or be considered done. Even if we can guide one destructive wheeler away from this kind of damage, it's worth it.

Brad

[al24]

Hey I'm going up there Fri anyone think it's a good idea to bring a bag of cement and shovel to reset the signs?
Al

[Hobo Willy]

That area needs to be fenced off. Everyone parks wherever they want at the turn around (especially on the grassy meadow.

I'm glad some control will finally come to the area, or the grass will be no more, and become mud.

[Hippie]

Wanted to give an update.

I received a call back from Dianna and she has directed my to Jeff Hyatt. I have left him a voice mail to call me back.

I have also spoken with the other people in my group. We have a couple of pictures of faces and rigs - no plates :( We are forwarding those to Jeff Hyatt asap along with descriptions. My buddy in the yotat crusier works for toyota and has identifed that one of the rigs that is suspected was a custom build up and should be easy to identify and find. Trust me when I say that if Bill says it is a complete custom he knows what he is talking about. He is in contact with one of the other groups we ran into to see if they have anything. Bill has already provided some good info through one of the local Toyota land cruiser clubs that will be getting to the authorities. If I find out more I'll update

[Camp]

This is great that we are getting information together. I just want to remind you guys though, unless one of us saw them tare things up, we can't be sure it was them. If they are contacted and admit it, well, that is different then. Just don't lose site of what this country is founded on, Innocent until proven guilty, even though our justice system can't seem to stay on that path :rolleyes: I think they have revised it to read, Guilty until innocence is bought.

[Hippie]

I have been thinking about that the whole time. I am hoping if they are the ones and if they are found and if they are contacted chances are they will deny it but just maybe next time they will think about it.

Whole lota F****ing if's in there - but gotta try. I have not posted the pics of the faces because as you say innocent until proven guilty

[Hobo Willy]

The point is---A parking area needs to be WELL DEFINED up there, or the tundra will continue to die off. If people are controlled like at Bill Moore, they won't go driving off the parking area on the tundra. If you want to camp, park in the parking area (current dirt area), then pitch a tent in the grass (tundra).

[74BuckinBronc]

I think it is necessary to block off the area, but it just detracts so much from the scenery. Too bad not everyone can be responsible.

[Big Dave]

Got another one, check out trip reports.

[Hippie]

Originally posted by Big Dave:
Got another one, check out trip reports. If you are referring to the St Vrain/Coney new post I think(hope) he is referring to all the water on the trail - right now there are a bunch of the low spots IN the trail full of water.

[Pioneer]

Originally posted by Big Dave:
Got another one, check out trip reports. He already deleted the thread and reposted it without the pictures of them driven over the tundra and and rampin on the rocks. But I copied all the good ones along with plate numbers if anyone cares :D

[Hippie]

Good job - get em to the authorities smile.gif

[Big Dave]

I "talked" to the original poster via PM's and he has apologized, said it was his first trail, now he knows what to do. I told him to make sure his friends know that too.

[Pioneer]

First trail my ass! Did you see his rig? No noobie builds a rig like that has only been on the trail once :rolleyes:

[KINSPINZ]

I kind wondered the same thing though i also talked to him Via PM's he apogized and is gonna read the tread lightly info. though his firend with the Red jeep needs a A$$ woopin. Newbie my ass with half doors and crap come on. Though a apologie and admiting he was in the wrong is great. I appreciate stand up people.

MIKE

[Red_Chili]

Now *THAT'S* the way to HANDLE this stuff!
graemlins/beer.gif graemlins/beer.gif graemlins/beer.gif

[Pioneer]

Originally posted by Mike Holmes:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pioneer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Big Dave:
Got another one, check out trip reports. He already deleted the thread and reposted it without the pictures of them driven over the tundra and and rampin on the rocks. But I copied all the good ones along with plate numbers if anyone cares :D </font>[/QUOTE]post them up, this the exact scenario of when someone should have their feet held to the fire.

lets seem them!

EDIT: or PM them, since we dont need to air our dirty laundry in front of the greenies. </font>[/QUOTE]Mike I already sent the pictures to the Forest Service this morning. I agree its time some feet be held to the fire! All this crap about "I didn't know I couldn't drive off the trail is bull pucky! If you look at the rigs he was driving along with the rigs his buddies were drivin, they know better. You only have to spend about one hour on this board before you relize this crap isn't tolerated. If this guy is as stand up as everyone is sayin he will forward contact info to the forest service for the rest of the people that were in his group!

[71cruiser]

Pioneer, I agree that what Matt XJ did was way wrong but to say this wasn't his first trip based on his rig may not be right either. It goes along with what I was asking about built rigs Vs experianced drivers. I know the kid that bought Charles Well's built jeep. He managed to roll it the first day he had it home in a gulley by his house.
Hopefully Matt XJ will learn from this and won't do it again and if it cost him some $ maybe it will sink in better. However I think that he needs to be taken along with somebody that has been doing this for awhile and shown the right ropes. Invite him along on the next trip and show him how to wheel the right way.

[Pioneer]

You mean to tell me out of all the people in his group not one of them had ever been on a trail ride before? Sorry I call BS.... Have you seen the pictures of all four jeeps off trail?

[71cruiser]

Pioneer, Yea I saw the pics and just judging from thier rigs I would have to say that it wasn't all of them's first trail. That doesn't mean that it wasn't Matt's first trip. Yes they are a bunch of dumb a$$es. However judging from Matt's response to this issue I would guess that he wants to be a responisible wheeler. If he were to go with a group that practices what they preach and learn from them, then maybe when he is with a group like that he can try to educate the others in his group or he might just decide that he would rather wheel with a better class of wheelers. Do I think that he and his buddies should have to go up there and clean the tire marks off the rock with tooth brushes you bet. Unfortunatly for the tunda there isn't much that can be done.

[Pioneer]

Fair enough.

[Hippie]

Ignorance is no excuse.

Gee I'm sorry I did not know you're not supposed to drive out across the meadow were no one else has ever drove. BULLSH!T

I enjoy this sport to much to allow d*ckheads like this to ruin it

Pioneer - my hat is off to you for sending the pics to the forrest service - graemlins/thumbsup.gif

got pulled away from my desk in the middle of typing & did not see the latest from 71cruiser.

71 I agree education is a key part but so is enforcement

[ July 02, 2004, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Hippie ]

[71cruiser]

Hippe I agree that with you about the law enforcement. Like I said hopefully the F.S. will make them clean off the rock with tooth brushes. You are absulltly right about ignorance being no excuse. IMO there is no excuse that can be given for driving off a trail exspecially above tree line. That is where running a few trails with the newbies comes in. I think that this board has 2 great things for that. Staging area and trip reports. Next trip I go on I will invite Matt xj along if he doesn't mind trailing with a baby toy provided the F.S doesn't take his ride ( which they ought to do) in which case then he can ride shotgun.

[Pioneer]

Its in the hands of the Forest Service now, so I hope all the newbies to this sport will understand that if you go off the trail you will be heckled by the members of this board, turned in to law enforcement, etc.... I hope Matt helps the Forest Service by providing them with the names of the people in his group so he dosn't take all the punishment by himself! If he works with the Forest Service and helps them in any way possible they may go easy on him. I highly doubt they will after the conversion I had with Dianna and how upset she was about the damage to the area over the past few weeks as she spends alot of her free time in the area. In the past few weeks I have taked with peoplpe with the Forest Service about Spring Creek, Carnage, and Wheeler Lake and two out of those three trails will be gone very soon if people don't stop abusing those areas.

This has been a good thread for Matt to learn from as most of the people with bad tempers have not come out of the woodwork and called Matt to the carpet. Threads like these are better when there is no name calling or harrasment. To all the people that have sent me positive emails and PM's thanks as its hard to turn in one of your own. graemlins/beer.gif