Gold Camp Road, Colorado Springs

[Bill]

While searching for road closure pages I ran across this info about the possible reopening of Gold Camp Road. Might be a chance to have an impact close to home.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/psicc/pp/goldcamp.shtml

[TTBlows]

Thanx for the link! I sent in comments just now!

[mtndewmaniac]

The posting, and the letter, may be a little tater than others, but I sent in my letter. ;)
Let's hope for the best on this one.

[BigDaddy]

That was a good link, thanks for the info!

[colorado phil]

Thanks for the link. I sent my comments. I rode with my dad on the road before I could drive and then when he got old he rode with me on the Gold Camp Road. It needs to be open to everyone and not just mountain bikers.

[CUL8R]

This is one I have to disagree on. There is nothing signicant on that short section of Gold Camp road. By bypassing it using Old stage rd, you miss nothing.

Trail access to 7 bridges (and several other good trails) is from the parking area at Goldcamp and High Drive. I don't need to have my kids and dogs run over, or be covered in dust by inconsiderate idiots while we hike to/from the trailheads.

I'm a long time 4 wheeler (and ATV'er) and I don't mind giving up something small like this to keep it safe and accessable for other recreational users. For those of you who don't ever get out of your vehicles, you should hike the 7 bridges trail and beyond. You can hit the Pikes Peak trail complex, several different parts of Capt Jack's, and many other trails/areas. It is one of Colorado Springs best trail access points, if not the best.

I say keep the road closed. Pick your battles carefully. You can't win them all. I think it is much better to fight new closures and restrictions, like those in White River National Forest, etc. Somtimes if we as four-wheelers support hiking/biking/skiing/horse folks on something small like this, maybe they'll support us when we really need/want something. I believe its called compromise. And sometimes it really does work.

My flame suit is on. Feel free....

Jim

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Tried hard to post comments, but can't get through. Anyone else have that problem?

[colorado phil]

Welcome Dixie, Yes many of us have had a problem getting through to the FS site. Keep trying and you'll get through.

[ZukGuy]

Jim,
I agree with you. I've lived in the Springs for a long time and I remember what a mess that area
was when all the yahoos could drive there. Witness
some of the camping spots on the way up Cheyenne Canyon. If I remember correctly, the issue is who
would pay for the tunnel repair and shoring - the FS or the City of Colorado Springs. I kind of prefer it as it is. Give a little, get a little,
like you said.
Neale

Trail access to 7 bridges (and several other good trails) is from the parking area at Goldcamp and High Drive.

[Snotty]

Originally posted by CUL8R:


Trail access to 7 bridges (and several other good trails) is from the parking area at Goldcamp and High Drive. I don't need to have my kids and dogs run over, or be covered in dust by inconsiderate idiots while we hike to/from the trailheads.

I'm a long time 4 wheeler (and ATV'er) and I don't mind giving up something small like this to keep it safe and accessable for other recreational users. For those of you who don't ever get out of your vehicles, you should hike the 7 bridges trail and beyond. You can hit the Pikes Peak trail complex, several different parts of Capt Jack's, and many other trails/areas. It is one of Colorado Springs best trail access points, if not the best.I hate comments like these. I guess I could say that I hate the inconsiderate idiots that walk down the middle of the trail and let their dogs wander all over the place while I am wheeling. Leave the name calling to school age kids...

Second, after (5) knee surgeries, no cartilage and the stability in my left knee to match a reed in a marsh, no thanks, I can't hike anymore.

I agree that we need to manage some areas better and even close some areas so that they may recover. But these types of comments are inflammatory and uncalled for.

[CUL8R]

Snotty,

Appropriate nickname. Are you related to ColoradoPhil?

Reading a short statement and making false assumptions from it, and then immediately attacking based on your false assumptions is right up his line. When I walk on the road (only because no other option is available) I walk as far off on the shoulder (if there is one) that is possible. Kids are under control and walk outside of me (farthest off road) and dogs are on leash and off road. Idiots refer to people who clearly see you and don't slow down, and/or come too close on purpose. If you fit that description, then yes, you are an idiot. I've witnessed this type of bull repeatedly on the upper (open section) of Gold Camp Road. I've seen people cut off bicyclists and fly by people trying to take pictures or taking a sort sightseeing break outside their vehicles, covering them with dust. Two different times I've seen people walking along the shoulder almost run over. Yes these drivers are idiots too.

My original point is that these people (idiots) exist out there in large numbers. Are you one? If everyone had a little common sense and regard for others then I wouldn't mind (and feel endangered) making the short hike up the road to where the trail heads are.

How not to be an idiot:

Don't speed by pedestrians, bicyclists, and equestrians on a dirt road or trail. Give them room, don't cut close to "teach them a lesson". Treat others as you'd like to be treated. These are common sense things that are part of common trail etiquete (along with many others)that I learned about 30 years ago when I started wheeling. If you don't agree, then I suggest you shouldn't be driving or wheeling.

Jim

[Yeeper]

Not that I want to get flamed, but there sure seems to be alot of animosity around here lately. :confused:

[CUL8R]

Yes, I agree. I've been at least partly to blame. I never used to be so easily antagonized. Must be getting old. I'm not willing to take any crap about anything anymore, and consequently jump on just about anything I think of as a sleight.

I intend to try to change that. I will do my best to ignore what I consider inflamatory comments, and will try to simply state what I believe. If my beliefs offend people, I'm sorry. I will be bluntly honest. If someone attacks me, then I'm not certain how I'll respond. Depends on the day, I guess.

Jim

[CUL8R]

Snotty,

In light of my most recent post, let me say I'm sorry. I looked at your post as an attack on what I considered a purely innocuous statement on my part. So I immediately attacked back. I will try to avoid that in the future. But I really believe, and mean what I said, about many drivers being idiots. I've driven all over the US, Canada, parts of Central America, and most of Europe (9 years) and find so many inconsiderate or downright dangerous drivers here, it is mind boggling. I don't know if it is a growing problem everywhere in the US, or just a Colorado thing, but it is not good. Common courtesy goes a long way, and it is sadly lacking out here on our roads and trails.

Jim

[Yeeper]

Originally posted by CUL8ER:
If someone attacks me, then I'm not certain how I'll respond. Depends on the day, I guess.

I can definately respect that! graemlins/beer.gif

[ September 25, 2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Yeeper ]

[Snotty]

No problem. I was still settling down after dealing Knobby. So I was a little sensitive to the name calling issue. Idiot and wheeler in the same sentence tends to make me leap before I look sometimes.

No harm, no foul.

Just today I was calling some guy on the road an idiot driver. They are everywhere, including behind the wheel of a 4x on a trail...

[colorado phil]

Originally posted by Yeeper Not that I want to get flamed, but there sure seems to be alot of animosity around here lately.Originally posted by CUL8R Snotty,

Appropriate nickname. Are you related to ColoradoPhil?
Subequently posted by CUL8R Reading a short statement and making false assumptions from it, and then immediately attacking based on your false assumptions is right up his line.
Subsequently posted by CUL8R </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Yes, I agree. I've been at least partly to blame. I never used to be so easily antagonized. Must be getting old. I'm not willing to take any crap about anything anymore, and consequently jump on just about anything I think of as a sleight. </font>[/QUOTE]Hey Snotty. Are you my brother? If so we need to get together and have a coke or a beer or something!!!!!!!!!! graemlins/beer.gif And Yeeper, can you join us because I think you're right about the animosity around here lately. I simply made a link available on the Gold Camp Road issue for people on the board to post their comments. Then I came under attack of CUL8R. After ignorning him I now find he is at it again after Snotty too. Man, I hope this guy isn't armed. Maybe a 12 step program for him would be beneficial.

By the way, please read my last post in the Trip Reports section on Gold Camp Road. If you do a search on the posts of CUL8R you will find that his only interest seems to be keeping the Gold Camp Road closed. Maybe the source of the animosity around here is that one person has a single issue and is going after anyone and everyone who doesn't share his point of view.

See you later. smile.gif

[ October 01, 2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: colorado phil ]

[CUL8R]

Snotty,

I already explained what was up to you. The only problem I have with this site is Phil. He is really an idiot (and one that I originally let get under my skin). i.e. jumping in here and stirring the pot well after everything was resolved. He reminds me of Billie and Hillie, sort of a master of spin. Only he apparently makes himself dizzy more then anything else, and usually doesn't make much sense after that. I'm not certain, but I think he is only interested in personal attacks and not much else.

I feel incredibly lucky to live in this country and have the right to express my beliefs without being censored or put in jail. In fact I spent just over 20 years in the Air Force defending those rights (and many others). The type of person who lacks the ability to recognize that other people have the right to their own views and beliefs and also to freely express those beliefs, is, I believe, a danger to our society. Of course, I and every other person who ever served in this country's military, also protected his rights. Ironic, huh? Anyhow, maybe some day I'll get to meet him in person. Meantime, all I can do is try to ignore his attacks and hope others see him as the idiot I feel he is. I wish he'd be man enough to cease his attacks, but that seems unlikely.

Jim

[colorado phil]

Jim,
I think your name calling and IQ judging and your attack on Snotty on the single issue you have posted about speaks for itself.
You attacked me simply because I made a link available for people to post their own thoughts on the Gold Camp Road. You made it your single issue to attack anyone who disagreed with you on that single issue. You've admitted that you are some kind of angry individual.
I posted nothing about you until you launched the same attack on Snotty that you launched on me.
You don't know me and you never will. You don't know my politics and you have a right to say whatever you want. However you have no reason to call me or anyone else an idiot. Your problems are your problems. I don't know what they are but I sincerely hope you get help with them.
Your only post on this board have been about the Gold Camp Road issue and attacking people who would like to see your "personal land" opened to motorized vehicles again.
I've tried ignoring you and you pulled the same thing with Snotty that you pulled on me.
If you have a problem with me and this board then I would suggest you simply stop posting and take your opposition to the Gold Camp Road re-opening to some political agenda.
As far your service to your country, etc., etc., I wonder if the discipline of the service is what caused you to act like a child. That's not the discipline I learned in serving my country.
I sincerely hope that I never meet you because I find you to express yourself as a potentially passive/agressive and disturbed person. People like you scare me.
I've tried to ignore you but you keep bringing me up as a spin doctor. You've now compared me to a former president and his wife when the only thing you really know about me is that I have a different point of view than yours on the Gold Camp Road. THe fact that you've done the same thing to another person who disagrees with your viewpoint on the Gold Camp Road should be an indication that you have a problem.
I won't resort to calling you names or launching a personal attack, because I sincerely hope that you get some professional help for your problem for the sake of all of those you come into personal contact with.
I am on this board for information and to share information. That information includes numerous trails, general 4X4 info, land use issues, techical advice and opinions from others on this board. When I posted the link to the Gold Camp Road it was to allow people to provide their view to the government, pro or con. This is not a battle to be waged on this forum and this forum is not a place for you to wage your personal battle on the Gold Camp Road and it certainly isn't the place for you to get the help you need with your anger management.

[Bill]

Well said, Phil!

(Except maybe you should be saying it to yourself.)

[CUL8R]

Uh huh. Whatever. I ask anyone who really cares, to go back and read the whole thread (Gold Camp Road) in the trip report section and see who attacked whom. I guess Phil forgot there is a record out there (Of course he could go back and edit his posts, but then each post would say it was edited). I simply posted a friendly disagreement with his viewpoint, and ended by saying I had my flame suit on. He first said all was fine and I wouldn't need it. He then attacked in his next post, and has never stopped. I started this? Please!!! Juvenile behavior. Like I said, wish he'd grow up and stop his attacks.

Other then Phil and his rantings, I've found this to be a great site. There is much useful info on trails. Many of which I haven't run yet. Wish I had more wheelin time, but supporting a family and having other hobbys like motorcyles, and ATVs, and dogs, and Caving doesn't leave time for a lot of wheelin trips anymore. I guess I just have to be more selective now. I heard a rumor from a local Forest Service guy about a month ago that my favorite local trail complex that includes Hackett and Longwater Gulches wouldn't reopen for three years. Sure hope that's not true. The other close trails, off Gold Camp and Mt Herman roads aren't much at all. And I can't play at Penrose because I'm not modded enough.

Jim

[SCOIIING]

Thanks for the info