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View Full Version : What happened up Lefthand near Fairview peak?



sidewinder
September 12th, 2003, 06:13 AM
I heard it was all torn up and impassible? Did anyone see the dammage? I heard it looks like someone took a D9 up there and wiped out the road and cut down trees. Is this a treehugger way of letting us know they don't want us there?

Willie G
September 12th, 2003, 11:20 AM
Not sure I know exactly where you're refering to...how did you get there?

vb
September 12th, 2003, 05:17 PM
not sure. havent heard and have not been up there altely. is forest land and public road. so .... guess ots time to go for a ride

sidewinder
September 15th, 2003, 04:05 AM
If you go up lefthand canyon to the entrance to carnage and go all the way to the top WAY past 5 points and fire hill where the trail goes past private property and houses on the left and where the exit to castle gulch is, almost to the top of fairview peak, somebody dug 100 feet of trench and cut down over 200 trees to keep out 4 wheelers. There are track marks from the heavy equipment and they brought it in from the top where the gate is for the maintained road and the houses are. This is forest service property!!! Supposedly it is completely impassible (relatively). I heard this weekend that the forest service is heavily investigating . This is the same crap that happened with barking dog.

[ September 15, 2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: sidewinder ]

Ryan Travis Robinson
September 15th, 2003, 06:05 AM
Im down for trying to pass it if it isn't ilegal

Big Dave
September 15th, 2003, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by bronca:
Im down for trying to pass it if it isn't ilegal The point of this is not to try to "overcome" the obstacles someone has put in place to deter us. The point is to find who has done this, most likely illegally, and make sure they are prosecuted.

Ryan Travis Robinson
September 15th, 2003, 10:19 AM
ya i know but that wouldn't be any fun. j/k

Butt Head
September 15th, 2003, 03:42 PM
I'm guessin that it will turn out to be the forrest service that did this. They sent me a thing that said they was going to start cutting timber in the area for fire protection. alot of greenies don't want this to happen but most of the owners do.

sidewinder
September 16th, 2003, 01:10 AM
The forest service said it was done illegaly and is investigating it as a felony. I think it was the landowners at the top that got tired of all the offroad traffic.

canyonclimber
September 16th, 2003, 03:05 AM
Apparently there are a couple of people up there that don't want us there. They are part of the James Creek Water Innitative. They have been fighting real hard to close carnage. Took matters into their own hands probably because it is going to be at least a year and a half before any (if any) new closures take place. Assholes, and they complain that we're destructive!

Ryan Travis Robinson
September 16th, 2003, 07:29 AM
damn thats ucks thats my favorite trail

sidewinder
September 16th, 2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by canyonclimber:
They are part of the James Creek Water Innitative. They have been fighting real hard to close carnage. Took matters into their own hands probably because it is going to be at least a year and a half before any (if any) new closures take place. Then their the same scum bags that closed the 102J trail in Jamestown. Are you sure it's the same group?

fishy1
September 16th, 2003, 10:08 AM
Im with Bronca.
Lets run it as-is. graemlins/thefinger.gif

supernatural
September 16th, 2003, 10:15 AM
well then... heeyaw. lets do it!

fishy1
September 16th, 2003, 10:25 AM
Were going up at about 6 tonight for a "pic-a-nic".
I will check out the area and try to get some pix of it.

Backcountry Colorado
September 16th, 2003, 10:56 AM
Please, whatever you guys do, DO NOT antagonize these people or take matters upon yourself. If this was done illegally, let the USFS handle it and reopen the trail. This could be a case of the 'other side' shooting themselves in the foot by preempting the USFS's review of the Forest Plan. The best thing we can do for ourselves is respect the owners, the land, the USFS regulations and educate others to do the same.

Red_Chili
September 16th, 2003, 11:00 AM
Ditto! Right now we look good and they look like jerks. Don't make it a case of "well, everybody's being a jerk and its gonna get dangerous, let's close it to avoid trouble".

vb
September 16th, 2003, 11:15 AM
what they said!!!!
the fs is really excited to find out who did this and to punish them. at this point the area is still open. it sounds as though foot travle is about the best that can be done right now. it is still a crime scene so if anyone atempts to move or cut up the trees things will not go well for them either. from a fs stand point before they can clean the mess up they have to evaluate what the clean itself will either damage or otherwise effect. nothing is simple in the life of the ranger.so its sounds as though it might be awhile till the signal comes down. would be good if we all stayed tuned for that signal though . if the work can be done with some volunteer help we should volunteer. i do know that in the case of volunteers that a guy needs to be certified to us a chain saw (liability reasons etc) but we can certainly help them in other parts of the deal. i'll head up next tuesday for some additional work on lefthand and will slide by fairview with a camera.
in short- we gotta be patient and see how this pans out
(and carry a rope just incase we find em tongue.gif )

SNOWMAN
September 16th, 2003, 11:51 AM
Yah. Don't touch --it. It's probably gonna take some time for matters to be sorted out yada, yada. The government moves pretty slow on these things. Everything has to get approved by the rangers boss and his boss and that persons boss etc.. etc... When they finally have volunteers help do the work they will have to give a safety briefing and everything else. They have tons of procedures.

I would not go up and start moving stuff. Like somebody else said. That is now a crime scene.

Ryan Travis Robinson
September 16th, 2003, 11:56 AM
yeah Im not gonna touch nothin it was a joke

fishy1
September 16th, 2003, 11:59 AM
J/K guys...would some pix help out? I will be up there in an hour. I hate to see this kind of crap going on.
If there is anything else I should do, let me know. :D

Ryan Travis Robinson
September 16th, 2003, 12:09 PM
take pixs for sure

Butt Head
September 17th, 2003, 03:30 PM
anybody got any pix yet? pleass post em when you do.

BoulderBronco
September 17th, 2003, 05:28 PM
Yeah, I would like to see what they did. I loved going up there. So close to Boulder graemlins/flipoff.gif

Backcountry Colorado
September 18th, 2003, 07:26 AM
What happened to those pics? I think I am going to head up there myself now and check it out. I will take some pics of it, if I can find it!

Ray

fishy1
September 18th, 2003, 10:39 AM
Anyone want to go up this eve? I did Jenny Creek insted, but want to go check out Carnage today.
I cant go alone, so let me know.
-Brad

Brian @ Terraliner Off-Road
September 18th, 2003, 01:02 PM
i find it ammusing and somewhat ironic that someone, whether the forest service or landowner, is "cutting down trees to keep 4wheelers out"!! isn't that kind of a double standard!? sounds like a mess no matter how you look at it and best left to the authorities, the more people we get up there to look at it and investiagte it ourselves the more we're going to be considered bothersome in the matter. just my 2 cents.... graemlins/thefinger.gif

Backcountry Colorado
September 18th, 2003, 01:35 PM
Got pics, just have to transfer them and load them to my website. Should be up by about 7 pm. You will not believe what they did to keep the last 200 yards of road closed!

I ran into Brian Rasmussen (sp) from the USFS Boulder office up on Lefthand and he stated that they are indeed looking into this as a crime. I was absolutely amazed at the extent someone went to in order to block the last 200 yards of USFS road! It looks as if a tornado went through the area. There are areas of the trail where a 6 foot deep trench was dug and bordered with felled ....LIVE.... trees. The whole blockade covers about 80 yards, and there is NO WAY THROUGH IT OR AROUND IT. I find it funny that there is a hairpin turn right where the blockade ends which is someones driveway! and the road contiues up to the left. From the intersections of 286, 286D and 287, the blockage starts about 1/2 mile up, right near the end of the trail. In all honesty, unless you were to contiue out and on the road, this serves no use in detering trail use. This was done by someone with no other intent than to keep EVERYONE out of the area. They have done more damage then 4x4 use over the next 50 years could do. It is truly a shame.

http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block1.jpg

http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block2.jpg

http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block3.jpg

http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block4.jpg

http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block5.jpg
I find it funny that there is a USFS plaque on a tree right in the middle of all this carnage!!!
http://www.back-countrycolorado.com/photo_album/Trail_block6.jpg

[ September 18, 2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Backcountry Colorado ]

Snotty
September 18th, 2003, 01:50 PM
Most of the idiots that do stuff like this don't care about the environment. They just have an issue with 4 Wheelers. Just look at what the boslough's did to keep wheelers off of BDT.

Post pics as soon as you can, I'll see if I can't get an email from the FS stating their position on this and then post it.

Getsome
September 18th, 2003, 03:28 PM
Very sad to see. Thanks for the pics. I would be more then happy to help split that wood and give it to someone who can use it. I've never operated a chainsaw but I can split wood. I can also bring my stepson who's only had caluses on his finger tips. :rolleyes:

John Kazmierczak
September 18th, 2003, 03:29 PM
graemlins/puke.gif

vb
September 18th, 2003, 03:31 PM
is that futher up the road from where you turn to go down castle gulch??
like after the green gate by the square loged cabin?? it looks like the section below the maintained section

Backcountry Colorado
September 18th, 2003, 03:59 PM
Having only driven the trail marked 286 in the past, up through the squeeze and past the old mining areas, and having no topo map of the area, I can only assume that Castle Gulch would be one of the side trails. The road is, in fact, maintained above the blockage, where the driveway begins to your right and the maintained section goes to the left. There are several spur trails off of 286, but I was hiking today and did not have time to look into any other routes.

Scorpion
September 18th, 2003, 04:13 PM
Is it illegal to go up there and cut those trees up for firewood? Might want to contact the forest service and tell them that you'd like to remove them...I doubt they'd complain...

Backcountry Colorado
September 18th, 2003, 04:23 PM
It is illegal to remove it as of now because it is a crime scene. We have to wait till the FS decides what they are going to do.

vb
September 18th, 2003, 04:23 PM
thats what it looks like . so you can still get to fairview from castle gulch or 87j. must be the local land owner up there . did you follow any equipment tracks?

vb
September 18th, 2003, 04:26 PM
already had that discussion with brian a couple days ago and yup right now it would be a problem to go up and desturb stuff.

BoulderBronco
September 18th, 2003, 04:33 PM
It looks like the trees were pushed, or pulled, over. A 4X4 couldn't do that.

Ryan Travis Robinson
September 18th, 2003, 04:39 PM
no thats definetly a bull dozer

Butt Head
September 18th, 2003, 05:02 PM
:eek: graemlins/flipoff.gif

colorado offroad
September 19th, 2003, 02:16 AM
thats one sick person!!i hope they find out who did this and make them pay!!! :mad:

99Cherokee
September 19th, 2003, 04:31 AM
pictures are so sad. Any word on who did this horible thing? That sign looks like it was forest service land. I've only been up there twice but think its the best thing around that part of the front range. Who's this james Creek Watershed Innitiate group anyhow? Looks like something that Earth Liberation Front who use to be Earth First would do. Any of those folks around that area?

Hairy
September 19th, 2003, 04:32 AM
it's purty hard to not leave tracks with a machine like that.

jx94148
September 19th, 2003, 04:58 AM
IN the 4th pic Ray G. posted it almost looks like somone used explosive to knock one down. The stump and trunk are all splintered in all directions.

It will be pretty interesting to hear about what happened and why. Please keep us posted.

jx94148
September 19th, 2003, 05:06 AM
Originally posted by 99Cherokee:
Looks like something that Earth Liberation Front who use to be Earth First would do. Any of those folks around that area? There sure are ELF members in Boulder, or somewhere in the region. I think they have been laying low since they tried to burn down most of Vail a few years back.

Big Dave
September 19th, 2003, 07:10 AM
:eek: graemlins/pissed.gif graemlins/thumbsdown.gif :mad: graemlins/flipoff.gif

That's just f'in WRONG!!

vb
September 19th, 2003, 03:12 PM
well ladies and gents,
i headed up there today and the pics that ray took are just the tip of the ice burg. i had the area pegged and of course the road to castle gulch is a little further up then ray was. the damage down castle gulch is 4 times worse and further up yet where the road makes the bend back toward the east (fairview) there are some trees stacked but no land damage.
im thinkin that the bucket size of the rig was 24inches plus . i originally thought two rigs but now am thinking that it was a track hoe. and a bigin. all the trees have the same scare about the same height up and some up rooted and some just broke. whoever did the work was an artist
i think that they will spend time behind bars. but
there is no easy way nearby to get around. looks like the motorcycle crowd is makeing a way around (which of course creates another set of problems
hope that everyone can be patient cause its going to be awhile.
hopefully the rangers see fit to aprove of some type of temporary bypass
id like to here the answer to the why of this. hope we get to

[ September 19, 2003, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: vb ]

Malamute
September 21st, 2003, 04:05 PM
Karstman and I ran Carnage today and headed on up 286. The pictures don't even begin to show the damage these people caused. I hope whoever did this is held accountable.

vb
September 21st, 2003, 04:13 PM
skip that tell us about the new set up

flexychevy
October 1st, 2003, 12:02 AM
I havent even been able to wheel down there yet.Lets put this bastard in a sling and cut his $@))$ off graemlins/pissed.gif graemlins/devil.gif

Camp
October 1st, 2003, 12:16 AM
Has anyone talked to the Forest Service about us going up and helping with cleaning that up? I am sure there is plenty of people here that would be more than happy to help clean that up. I can only help if we do it this weekend as I leave for Antarctica next weekend. The thing is, we need to get the permission to go up and clean this up before we do anything.

Earthcruiser
October 1st, 2003, 01:14 AM
If it is a local land owner, the vehicle capable of doing something like would be hard to hide. I think if it were the tree huggers, there would be more publicity and less destruction. Be patient and let the FS do what they need to do. We do not need to loose face on this. If we volunteer to help, it could only help all around.
.....Just my two cents.....

Haire Ball
October 1st, 2003, 11:04 AM
Save the forest and cut down trees to do so. graemlins/crybaby.gif
F'in hypocrites. graemlins/flipoff.gif

Phazertwo A.K.A Brenden
October 1st, 2003, 06:07 PM
Well, if we get the ok, i say we set a date and see how many people show up, i am game, tho i don't know where it is, i don't mind manual labor. I have a jeep, and i could probly get my dads truck at the trail head to haul more with a trailer. I say we get the ok and do what it takes to get it back to a drivable trail... i am with earthcrusher, if we clean it up, it looks good on our part
Brenden

TJTim
October 7th, 2003, 04:43 AM
I contacted TheDenverChannel, Channel 7 about this damage today and the update of the FBI involvement. Kurt Silver immediately emailed me back and called me for more information. He has already called into the FBI and wants to cover the story. Those of you who have first-hand knowledge and accurate/detailed information may want to contact him to share it. Let's flip this picture the other direction and paint a bad one of the tree-huggers for the public to see. I'm tired of all the bad press about the people who OHV in the Forest Service land.

Big Dave
October 7th, 2003, 04:50 AM
Jim,
Sweet!!! Be sure to let us know of any updates you get from them, like when the story is going to air and such. Also make sure you have them check out this site so that they can see we are willing to help to repair the damage!!!!

graemlins/beer.gif

7News
October 8th, 2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by sidewinder:
I heard it was all torn up and impassible? Did anyone see the dammage? I heard it looks like someone took a D9 up there and wiped out the road and cut down trees. Is this a treehugger way of letting us know they don't want us there? 7News is looking into this for a story. Has anyone seen the damage themselves? If so we're interested in talking with you about the area, how the damage impacts using the forest, etc. If you are willing to be interviewed on camera please call us at 303-832-0200. Thanks, Marc Williams, 7News

Yeeper
October 8th, 2003, 07:56 AM
Let us know when you are going to air the story! I would like to tell people to watch it! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Pioneer
October 8th, 2003, 08:00 AM
The two people you want to talk with on the board are VB and Backcountry Colorado. I know VB wants to do this so drop him a PM (private mesaage) and Backcountry Colorado has left for Moab for a while.

supernatural
October 8th, 2003, 08:01 AM
im sure if he gets SOMEONE to be interviewed that someone would let us know what's up. Ray Greco went up there and took the first of the pictures.

Pioneer
October 8th, 2003, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by xjSLATE:
im sure if he gets SOMEONE to be interviewed that someone would let us know what's up. Ray Greco went up there and took the first of the pictures. He is Backcountry Colorado!

Eric
October 8th, 2003, 09:54 AM
I'm moving this to the Land Use Issues forum.

Marc, welcome to CO4x4.org :D

vb
October 8th, 2003, 06:12 PM
welcome indeed marc!
i left you a voice mail at the office. and would be more than willing to meet with you . also would be up for showing you the damage as well. there are actually three sites for damage and if your new to that area you might have difficulty findin your way around
970 222 0065

Gunter
October 14th, 2003, 03:24 PM
must we send hourly patrols on all our fave roads and trails every hour? not really bad idea,you kow?LOL

Vitholf
October 21st, 2003, 01:46 AM
Hey all,

If you need a volunteer to help with cleanup please count me in.

Grew up working on wood lots in Northern New Hampshire and went to school for forestry technology.....(Funny how I'm a damned computer geek now isn't it?!)....Been a while since I played with a chainsaw but I know my way around one pretty good. I noticed someone said something about needing to be "certified" on a chainsaw in order to use one as a volunteer? Either correct me on this or let me know where I have to go to get the cert in order to help out...I would need equipment (chainsaw, ballistic chaps, etc) since, again, I've been out of this field for a bit of time..Also am experienced with John Deer, TimberJack and a couple other brands of skidders as well as a few different types of splitters and various other implements of tree farming...Sorry, none of the newer fancy cut (or should I say ZIP) the tree and carry it to the pile things though since I got out of tree farming back around '91

Count me in to help one way or another though.....

PM me if you need my contact info

Glenn

CharkTaco
October 22nd, 2003, 08:09 AM
In case of downed trees, investigator has suspect in mind
Destruction occurred near Jamestown around Labor Day

By Chris Barge, Camera Staff Writer
October 22, 2003

JAMESTOWN ? A U.S. Forest Service investigator says she knows who knocked over more than 100 ponderosa and lodgepole pines around Labor Day and dug trenches into a dirt road popular among off-road vehicle enthusiasts.

Kim Jones, special agent for the Forest Service, said a landowner in the area brought heavy equipment into the forest to cause the damage. The felled trees and trenches continue to block three roads as they cross onto a cluster of private properties leading up to Fairview Peak.


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Jones, who helped determine the cause of the 2002 Hayman fire, was assigned to investigate the destruction after off-roaders reported that one of the roads they have used for years looked like it had been hit by a hurricane.

Jones said the damage resulted from long-standing conflicts between private property owners in the area and off-roaders who use roads that cut across those private properties.

"I have gotten some cooperation, and it's not necessarily a mystery," Jones said. "I have identified who is responsible."

She declined to name the suspect.

Officials have said that while they suspect the damage occurred on Forest Service property rather than private land, they are still investigating.

"There may or may not be a crime," Jones said.

The forest vandalism comes just as the Forest Service ramps up an involved public process that will determine a first-ever travel management plan for the area.

"It's nice ? you've got your own little piece of heaven up there," Jones said. "But there are many uses for a national forest, so conflicts take place."

The area is about three miles uphill from Boulder County's most popular off-road trailhead on Lefthand Canyon Road. On busy summer weekends, officials estimate that as many as 150 people drive the web of rocky trails at once in four-wheel drives, all-terrain vehicles and motorcycles.

Up at Forest Road 288, near the intersection with Forest Road 286 and County Road 87J, the road turns into a football field's worth of destruction. The trees, some of which were more than 100 years old, lie across the road, uprooted or snapped at their trunks by heavy equipment.

Every 10 yards, the road lies trenched by gaping holes the size of a cabin's basement.

Longtime Jamestown resident Leon Hill said that while he has not personally seen the blockage and had nothing to do with it, he supports the destruction.

"It's my understanding that (the road) crosses private property, and it's illegal," he said. "My hat's off to whoever did that."

Hill said he has spent too much time running off-road vehicles off his property in the 22 years he has owned land up there.

"As far as I'm concerned, I don't want them up there because there's too many bad apples in the barrel," he said.

Hill and other landowners in the area said they have grown frustrated by the Forest Service's unwillingness to reclaim roads originally built as fire breaks during a 1988 fire of nearly 3,000 acres that threatened to swallow Jamestown.

Boulder Ranger District senior ranger Christine Walsh said she is researching whether the roads cut off by the blockages were created originally as fire breaks.

She added that while the Forest Service plans to stabilize the soils around the blockages to prevent erosion this winter, clearing the trees and filling in the trenches would take far more work and heavy equipment. She called that task "much more optional."

Whether the roads blocked by the trees are official public roads, even though they have been used as a connection to higher off-road trails, remains in question, according to Forest Service officials.

Many off-roaders are adamant that the roads are public and must remain open.

"By Colorado state law, that's a public road that crosses private property," said Adam Mehlberg, secretary of the Trail Ridge Runners, a 47-member four-wheel-drive club based in Longmont. "I know the private property owners have an issue, but that's not the way to take care of it."

For now, the area beyond the felled trees, which tops out with a view at Fairview Peak, is off the table for off-road vehicles because of the extensive destruction.

Jones said she still needs to establish a value for the damage and collect information from witnesses before turning the case over to the U.S. Attorney's Office. Most important, she said, she must determine whether the vandalism occurred on national forest property.

Last week, Boulder Ranger District officials met to set the course for developing a travel management plan for the area, which could take years.

Walsh estimates that extensive off-roading in the area, combined with target shooting at the trailhead, has resulted in $5 million to $10 million worth of damage. However, the Forest Service has turned an almost blind eye to the problem for the past 20 years due to a lack of resources, she said.

Meanwhile, off-highway vehicle registrations have spiked 800 percent in Colorado since 1990.

"This is among the most intensely used OHV areas in the country, especially by motorized users," Walsh said. "I've never seen anything like this."

Hairy
October 24th, 2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by CharkTaco:

By Chris Barge, Camera Staff Writer
October 22, 2003

Walsh estimates that extensive off-roading in the area, combined with target shooting at the trailhead, has resulted in $5 million to $10 million worth of damage. However, the Forest Service has turned an almost blind eye to the problem for the past 20 years due to a lack of resources, she said. Walsh said. "I've never seen anything like this." Sounds like this b@*%! sure wnts to shift the blame from the eco-terrorists to the off-road community.

kwyjibo
October 24th, 2003, 01:24 PM
"This is among the most intensely used OHV areas in the country, especially by motorized users," Walsh said. "I've never seen anything like this." I've said this before.
The ONLY solution is to establish designated areas for OHV use, the more roads that are restricted to OHV use (as is the case in Boulder county) the more people are going to be concentrated in one area. That's just plain simple.

vb
October 24th, 2003, 01:28 PM
this damage was done at an astablished designated ohv area

cleanbike
October 27th, 2003, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by vb:
this damage was done at an established designated ohv area Yeah, one that got about 20 percent smaller after the damage was done! And a much larger damage to the credibility of those appointed to "manage" it, unless something is done SOON to rectify the situation. (i.e. clear the road and keep it open, or allow us to clear it!) JD