Sig P220

[Letum]

I think I am going to buy a Sig p220 from a friend. I ahven't shot it yet but am going to go tomorrow just wanted to see what you all thkn about them.

[planefixer]

A good friend of mine had one for a while- damn good gun.The only reason he sold it was to get money towards his purchase of an H&K MK23 SOCOM.

[sweater]

The only downsides (for me - I had a 226 once):

Double-action first shot followed by single-action shots.

Too large for concealed carry IMHO for my body size.

Beyond that? Ridiculously accurate, extremely reliable, and a worthwhile investment.

- mike

[ccondrey]

I think Mike hit the nail on the head.

(I also just recently traded my 226 for a glock 19. That's not taking anything away from the sig, it's a great gun, the 19 just fit my needs better)

The p220 has quite a following.

You may try doing some searches here: http://www.sigforum.com/

[Yota]

The aforementioned, plus heavier than an XD and twice the price.

Nice gun, no doubt, but no extra bang for the $$$ IMHO.

[jnschwie]

DA/SA = teh lose, IMHO.

[Letum]

Going to get a pretty good deal on it. My friend bought it off the armorer for the boulder SWAT team so its in pretty good condition. Only thing I wish it had was tritum sights. Guess I just need to see how it shoots to me.

[Jeffro600]

DA/SA = teh lose, IMHO.

Care to elaborate WHY please??

[sweater]

Care to elaborate WHY please??
First shot, when you want to get a round downrange ASAP, is a long-travel double-action shot.

I've tried, and it takes a lot of work to be as accurate with that first shot as you are with all the subsequent shots (shorter/lighter trigger pull). You either have to slow down a little to even out your trigger pull (making you slower) or you need to practice a whole hell of a lot to get that longer-travel trigger pull to go more quickly.

Basically, if you're practicing to shoot a controlled pair on drawing, as I was, you oftentimes just mash down the first shot to get it downrange fast, then you have your fast followup, more accurate shot.

Or, maybe it's just that I like every single shot to be the same travel, the same pull, the same feel. But then, of course, there are the people who want the first shot to be a little harder to avoid unintentional discharges. Or something.

Whatever. I love my Glock. :flipoff2:

- mike

[Jeffro600]

One couldnt cock the pistol while drawing it?? :shrug: I can draw and cock just as fast as i can draw only...

Ill take a light single action trigger ANY day of the week over that of ANY glock or DAO. But then, im a 1911 guy, and traded Chris my G19 for his P226 if that tells you anything... :flipoff2:

[jnschwie]

Yeah, like sweater said.

And I'm a 1911 guy. I hate the feel of DA/SA. Or really any DA (having not tried an LDA).

[Letum]

The jury is in. I shot it tonight, put 200 rounds down range and it shot amazing. definatly going to buy it. I had 2 FTF's but I think that was beacuse I used some crappy Wolf ammo. All the other ammo shot great so I am jsut chalking it up to the ammo, i ahve heard wolf ammo messes up a bunch. Anyways thanks for the input.

[jnschwie]

Right off the bat you have 2 failures and you're ready to blame ammo and buy?

Maybe try other ammo first?

[quivvy]

i've heard wolf ammo to cause failures in a few pistols that otherwise NEVER have failures. if it was ONLy with the Wolf you'r probably safe, but be sure BEFORE a purchase.

[sweater]

One couldnt cock the pistol while drawing it?? :shrug: I can draw and cock just as fast as i can draw only...

If you are cocking the hammer on a P220 (or, personally, any other handgun for that matter) then you do not have a firm grip on the weapon as it's leaving your holster. That right there is a safety issue, IMHO.

Meaning:

I was taught, and it makes every single bit of sense for me, that you need to have a full firing grip on the weapon as it leaves your holster. That, and I've never once heard of any reputable instructor anywhere suggest that you should be thinking about cocking a double-action weapon at the same time that you're drawing it and coming to bear on the target. With the exception of 1911's, where the safety needs to be removed in order to fire, a weapon should be ready for fighting as it leaves your holster. Even slide-mounted safeties (such as on a Beretta 92,94, etc) would be carried in the "off" position for personal defense. Police carry rules would obviously depend on department policy.

Basically, the P220's ready to fire when it leaves your holster. You just need to adjust your pull for the first shot. I'm not a fan of having to do that.

- mike

[jnschwie]

When I draw, I'm resting my thumb immediately on the thumb safety (1911), which is the most comfortable grip for me. I don't want to be cocking and then relocating it afterwards.

[Yota]

The safety systems of the XD are perfect in my opinion.

As you draw, your palm deactivates the grip safety. One down, but still safe x2.

As you finger touches the trigger, it deactivates the 2nd safety, but still safe x1.

As your finger pulls the trigger, it deactivates the 3rd safety (firing pin block). BANG!!

All of this is done naturally by holding the pistol in a normal shooting grip and pulling the trigger. Nothing to fumble with or worry about. And if you reholster, the weapon is safed automatically when you release your grip.

I will say that it's easy enough to train yourself to deactivate the external manual safety on a m1911 or other pistol with the safety in a similar position.

[sweater]

The safety systems of the Glock are perfect in my opinion.

In the holster it's not pointed at anything that you want to destroy.

Coming out of the holster, the muzzle gets brought up, only sweeping targets directly in front of you that you are willing to destroy.

In fighting stance, the muzzle is pointed at the target that you are willing to destroy.

Just before you pull the trigger, you have made the decision to destroy your target. Gun goes bang, target is destroyed.

Gun gets returned back to holster, pointed at the ground, where it is, again, not aimed at anything that you're willing to destroy.

Pretty good system, if you ask me. :flipoff2:

- mike

[jnschwie]

I will say that it's easy enough to train yourself to deactivate the external manual safety on a m1911 or other pistol with the safety in a similar position.

The Todd Jarrett grip makes it perfect on a 1911.

[Yota]

In the holster it's not pointed at anything that you want to destroy.

Coming out of the holster, the muzzle gets brought up, only sweeping targets directly in front of you that you are willing to destroy.

In fighting stance, the muzzle is pointed at the target that you are willing to destroy.

Just before you pull the trigger, you have made the decision to destroy your target. Gun goes bang, target is destroyed.

Gun gets returned back to holster, pointed at the ground, where it is, again, not aimed at anything that you're willing to destroy.

Pretty good system, if you ask me. :flipoff2:

- mike

Glock guys get so defensive when we XD guys mention that grip safety. :lmao:

[sweater]

Glock guys get so defensive when we XD guys mention that grip safety. :lmao:

I have one of each - XD9 4" and a Glock 23. I went through all of my defensive pistol training with it. Used to carry it.

Both are excellent guns in their own right, but the 23 wins out. Why? The XD is still dealing with FTF's every now and then and I'm not so keen on buying mags to try and see if that's the issue (but going to, anyway). Also, it's loosened up - shake the gun back and forth and the slide is a little loose on the frame. Not a biggie, but feels a little off in my hand. Also, the 4" is much bulkier than the 23. I used to own an XD sub to alleviate that very thing... and it's still bulkier than the 23. Oh, and it's taller. Feels like I'm sighting down an aircraft carrier deck compared to the 23. Oh, and the 23 has never failed on me. Ever. The XD has. Both have about the same amount of rounds through them.

The only thing I like better about the XD is the trigger. It's easier on the fingers when shooting all day, whereas the 23 will start to sting a little and has a really crappy feel to it.

For the spring, I wanted to start competing (based on your guys' experiences) and want to do it with a 9mm vs. a .40. Yet I don't trust the XD to function flawlessly.

So I see the merits in both, and I still steer people towards an XD. I just have had a much better experience with the 23.

:shrug:

- mike

[Yota]

I hear ya Mike. My experience with my XD has been different than yours with your XD.

Ultimately, you have to go with what works. Glocks are tried and true, no doubt. And frankly, I'd steer people to a Glock over a Sig also just based on price.

[Gunter]

I think I am going to buy a Sig p220 from a friend. I ahven't shot it yet but am going to go tomorrow just wanted to see what you all thkn about them.

all SIGs a1 ergonomics.made super well,form follows function to perfection:thumbsup:

[Yota]

XDs are known for good ergo too and yet they cost half the sig's price.

I know the Sig is a great gun. I'm just saying it's not twice as great as an XD or even a Glock, but it is twice the price.

[ccondrey]

I know the Sig is a great gun. I'm just saying it's not twice as great as an XD or even a Glock, but it is twice the price.

Well for the record, Sigs aren't twice the price of glocks and XDs - more like 25% more.

New XD 45s on Gunbroker.com with factory sights are going for around $500. You can get a new p220 w/ rail and night sights for $770 (again on gunbroker). If you factor in adding night sights to the XD (conservatively at $70) that puts the sig at 25% more than the XD. Yeah it's more, but not twice.

Sorry, I just had to jump in and clear that up. :beer:

[philip_g]

I had a P220 I bought back in the 90's cheap in a pawn shop in billings MT. Like NIB with the test target and all, an old style with the walnut grips and euro mag release, I think I walked away with it for $300 or something stupid. I sold it awhile later and have really regretted it. At the time I was shooting handloaded SWC's and couldn't justify loading ball ammo just for one pistol. Regret ever selling it.

If you're looking for a cheap used SIG gander mountain has the ex-police import P225s for 399, not a screaming deal but not a bad price either, they have a lot of holster wear but the one I fondled looked to be pretty good overall.
For 100 bucks sig will replace the springs and install night sights, for another 100 they'll refinish it.
They're in the tall case just opposite of the 1911 case, kind of hidden.

[Yota]

Well for the record, Sigs aren't twice the price of glocks and XDs - more like 25% more.

New XD 45s on Gunbroker.com with factory sights are going for around $500. You can get a new p220 w/ rail and night sights for $770 (again on gunbroker). If you factor in adding night sights to the XD (conservatively at $70) that puts the sig at 25% more than the XD. Yeah it's more, but not twice.

Sorry, I just had to jump in and clear that up. :beer:

Your math is faulty. $770 is on the order of 50% more than $500.

I'm just saying I bought my XD40 for $429 and a typical Sig runs around $800.

But yeah, factor in my Trijicon night sights and it's $800 vs $529. :shrug:

I'm just saying the Sig is pricey for what you get IMHO.

[Letum]

Worked the deal out today. Gonna pay $450 for it. So on that note anyone know a place to get relativly cheap ammo.

[Peanut]

I hear ya Mike. My experience with my XD has been different than yours with your XD.

Ultimately, you have to go with what works. Glocks are tried and true, no doubt. And frankly, I'd steer people to a Glock over a Sig also just based on price.

LOL Maybe 10-15 years ago I can't account for the SIG when Glock made a good gun. Current I would buy a SIG hands down the new guns that glock pushes out are not what they use to be, in fact they are far from it.

[ccondrey]

Your math is faulty. $770 is on the order of 50% more than $500.

I'm just saying I bought my XD40 for $429 and a typical Sig runs around $800.

But yeah, factor in my Trijicon night sights and it's $800 vs $529. :shrug:

I'm just saying the Sig is pricey for what you get IMHO.

I think it's just a difference of how we're doing our math, but you're right in that it is a significant amout. I was always taught this way when dealing with mark-ups:

570 (price of XD with night sights) / .74 (26%) = 770 (price of comparable sig)
Or
570/770 = .74 (26%)


I just didn't want someone that wasn't familiar with either brand to rule out Sigs based on the thought that they are 50% more than glocks or XDs.
Sigs are fine guns. Are they better than Glocks or XDs? Are they worth the extra premium you pay for them? I dunno, that's really a subjective thing I suppose.

I personally traded my Sig for a Glock, but I'd rather have a used Sig than a new XD - so go figure. :D

[sweater]

Your math is faulty. $770 is on the order of 50% more than $500.

I'm just saying I bought my XD40 for $429 and a typical Sig runs around $800.

But yeah, factor in my Trijicon night sights and it's $800 vs $529. :shrug:

I'm just saying the Sig is pricey for what you get IMHO.
...and oddly enough, to have this come full circle...

XD sights are really Sig sights in disguise. Same sights fit the same guns.

:D

- mike

[Yota]

I think it's just a difference of how we're doing our math, but you're right in that it is a significant amout. I was always taught this way when dealing with mark-ups:

570 (price of XD with night sights) / .74 (26%) = 770 (price of comparable sig)
Or
570/770 = .74 (26%)


I just didn't want someone that wasn't familiar with either brand to rule out Sigs based on the thought that they are 50% more than glocks or XDs.
Sigs are fine guns. Are they better than Glocks or XDs? Are they worth the extra premium you pay for them? I dunno, that's really a subjective thing I suppose.

I personally traded my Sig for a Glock, but I'd rather have a used Sig than a new XD - so go figure. :D

That's correct to say that 570 is 26% less than 770, but not that 770 is 26% more than 570 (and it should be 500 - I know lots of people who get XD 45ACPs in the 400's)

To do it correctly, you do this:

(770 - 500)/500

= 270/500

= 0.54

= 54%

This is saying that 770 is 54% more than 500. The denominator is always the "more than or less than number."

I'm really nerding up the place now. Sorry. :D

[jnschwie]

Fixed math:

Save $1000: Get decent 1911 and ignore the tupperware section of the gun store. :D

[Jeffro600]

Fixed math:

Save $1000: Get decent 1911 and ignore the tupperware section of the gun store. :D

Sigs are NOT tupperware... :P

[Yota]

Sigs are NOT tupperware... :P

No, but XDs and Glocks are. That crack was aimed at moi. :D

[jnschwie]

Not just yew. The whole crew. :D

[dmeis]

...Get decent 1911 and ignore the tupperware section of the gun store. :D

I'm not a fan of Tupperware either but I'll take a 2011 over a 1911 any day. :flipoff2:

[jnschwie]

I'm not a fan of Tupperware either but I'll take a 2011 over a 1911 any day. :flipoff2:

Cool. Go nuts with that.