Advice needed -Shotgun purchase and training - safety

[grimgaunt]

As some of you may know - I have taken a foreign assignment (3 yrs) in Turkey and shall be moving there in April. My wife and 7-yr old son will be here for a bit longer (until the house is leased/sold - probably July or so). I would like her to have some personal protection while I am gone. She has always been anti-gun !!!

I would like her to have a firearm (we live waay outside of town) and get some practice. Is there a place in Parker/Aurora/SE Denver you can recommend where she can go in, look at firearms, try them out and purchase one ?
A place where a woman can feel comfortable going in and talking to folks ??

Also, suggestions as to weapons other than the shotgun would be appreciated. She has had exposure to handguns in the past. Lighter ones such as a Walther and a .22 and also a .357 (but she said she didnt fancy the kick) - so nothing heavy.

All replies appreciated

thanks

[cheftyler]

You can go to Cherry Creek Family Fun center and rent a shotgun and go shooting there. You can also rent a variety of pistols and rifles. The range officers are great and offer free advice all the time.
The Firing Line in Aurora (225 and Alameda) also rents various pistols, but it's a less than ideal place for someone that isn't familiar with firearms.
A shotgun would be your best bet as it takes the least amount of practice (not saying you never have to practice with it, just saying it doesn't take the same amount of practice a pistol would take to get and stay good.)

Check out the Firing Range subforum for more detailed information.

[grimgaunt]

thanks - curious - I've always heard good things about the 'Firing line' - why is it not geared toward beginners ?

[Jason's CJ5]

If you are thinking of getting her a shotgun, call the NRA and find a local Basic Shotgun instructor and see when the next class is. The class is well worht the money.

[cheftyler]

Every time I have been to the Firing Line I have yet to see any sort of Range Safety Officer. There's just a guy that sells range time and keeps track of who is on what lane, but there's no one watching, at least no one immediately visible to me as an employee/RSO. Also, it's indoors so it's very loud compared to an outdoor range. Also, there seems to be quite a few "gangsta" types shooting there...and I've never seen the same "gangstas" twice...
I'm ok with shooting there, but it might be a bit much for a newbie.

[jnschwie]

Concur. Way too loud at firing line for any sort of conversation (ie. opportunity for questions).

Cherry Creek would be much more friendly for this.

[sweater]

She has always been anti-gun !!!

Have you thought of letting her make the call on this one?

All the time in the world spent trying to get her trained and learning how to use it safely won't mean crap when she just keeps it squirreled away in the closet with no desire to use it.

Offer her up the info, someone to train with (Jason?) and then let her make the decision...

Just my $0.02

- mike

[denverd0n]

No offense, but I think this is a bad idea. If she is anti-gun then what makes you think she's going to be willing to pick up a shotgun and shoot an intruder? More likely, in my opinion, she will not even think of picking up the shotgun at all, and if she does she'll hope that just by holding it she'll be able to scare the intruder away. That is a recipe for disaster!

The decision to kill another human being in self-defense is a very personal one. Much as YOU might want her to be prepared to do that, she will NOT be prepared until SHE makes the decision. There is simply no way around that. Until she is ready, a better choice would be a dog.

[grimgaunt]

Denver Don,
we have dogs. you make a good point there though.

[Barf Bag]

No offense, but I think this is a bad idea.

I whole heartedly disagree. If he doesnt open the opportunity to her, she will never be open to the idea. If he gets her training and gives her support, she may or may not like it. If she changes her mind and becomes open to the idea of protecting her family, that is a good thing. If she stays blinded to reality and decides it is safer to be raped/assaulted/murdered/robbed/etc, at least he tried.

I second (or third or whatever the number is now) the advice on getting a trained/certified outside source for training, they will probably be more patient with those less comfortable with firearms.

[grimgaunt]

We have recently had a number of incidents near the property line - we think they are mainly snoopers with cameras that are looking to take pics of our jeeps and so on (even though we have no covenants and are basically in the middle of nowhere) - there was one incident recently where my wife saw a red dot in the kitchen moving around at night. Theres more stories but I shall post them later.
Enough to make me wary for sure. I already travel 4 days a week, now with the overseas thing it will be a couple of months away at a time.

Based on these she has withdrawn some if not all of her opposition to firearms.

[Barf Bag]

try and find an instructor that will teach her to be smart and hide in the room with the kid, 911 and the shotgun, not teach her to be charles bronson and clear the house like a hero.

[denverd0n]

I whole heartedly disagree. If he doesnt open the opportunity to her...
It is one thing to "open the opportunity to her," but it is quite another to buy her a gun, get her some training, and then leave town and HOPE that she'll be prepared to use it. In fact, I would argue that the very fact that he has guns of his own and is married to her has already "opened the opportunity." So far she has not made the decision to take that opportunity.

Regardless of that, in the end, it must be HER decision. She is the ONLY one who can decide that she is prepared to use lethal force to defend herself or others. And until she has made that decision, expecting her to use a gun in self-defense is not realistic.

More than that, giving her a gun when she is not ready to use it is an invitation to disaster. Either when the time comes she will not reach for the gun, and then the bad guy may find it and steal it, or she will reach for it but not be prepared to use it and so the bad guy will take it from her and may very well use it on her. In any case, having a gun that you are not ready, willing, and able to use is not going to benefit anyone (except maybe the bad guy).

Yes, absolutely keep trying to work on her attitude. Try to show her that a gun can be a very useful tool for self defense. Personally, I would emphasize the aspect of being able to protect the children--that is what turned around my wife. And when she is ready, then by all means be ready to provide her with an appropriate-for-her defensive arm.

But until she is ready I would not buy her a gun. The decision has to be hers, and until she has made the decision I believe she is better off without a gun around the house that she is not going to be willing to use.

[ccondrey]

You may want to consider a 20GA if you are stuck on the shotgun. Just my $.02 though.

[Budman]

You may want to consider a 20GA if you are stuck on the shotgun. Just my $.02 though.

I think this is a great idea. A 20 is the best for a lady who is adverse to recoil.

[Budman]

On a side note, Do you want to send me some shotguns while you are over there???

[Yota]

I've come to believe that shotguns are no better for home defense than a pistol for a few reasons:


1. A person is far less likely to keep a shotgun handy (I mean tactically handy) than they are a small pistol,
2. You really do still have to aim them,
3. Shotty rounds can go through a wall too,
4. Shotties are less safe than pistols as defense guns around kids because they can't easily be concealed and because the physical safeties on them are easy to defeat unless they're trigger-locked (which renders them useless for defense)
5. They're cumbersome and difficult to wield indoors unless you get a smaller defense model

If she's game and can be gently shown that firearms are not inherently evil, I'd think about maybe a small semi-auto 380 or 9mm. Perhaps even a revolver, which is dead easy to use and is very reliable. And the safest place she can keep it so that it will be ready in the event of an attack - when there are kids around - is in a concealed carry holster on her person. It is legal for her to conceal-carry in the home.

But as others have said, all this is moot if she's not up for it or is too scared to safely handle or use a firearm.

[sweater]

I've come to believe that shotguns are no better for home defense than a pistol for a few reasons:

1. A person is far less likely to keep a shotgun handy (I mean tactically handy) than they are a small pistol,
2. You really do still have to aim them,
3. Shotty rounds can go through a wall too,
4. Shotties are less safe than pistols as defense guns around kids because they can't easily be concealed and because the physical safeties on them are easy to defeat unless they're trigger-locked (which renders them useless for defense)
5. They're cumbersome and difficult to wield indoors unless you get a smaller defense model

If she's game and can be gently shown that firearms are not inherently evil, I'd think about maybe a small semi-auto 380 or 9mm. Perhaps even a revolver, which is dead easy to use and is very reliable. And the safest place she can keep it so that it will be ready in the event of an attack - when there are kids around - is in a concealed carry holster on her person. It is legal for her to conceal-carry in the home.

But as others have said, all this is moot if she's not up for it or is too scared to safely handle or use a firearm.

Take a good course in defensive pistol tactics and one in defensive shotgun tactics and I think you'll see that the benefits of each can easily offset the weaknesses of each.

In other words, someone expertly trained with pistol use can be just as effective as someone expertly trained with shotgun use. And vice-versa.

The key point being: with expert training.

Beyond that, there are much more effective ways to defend yourself from an intruder (target hardening, dogs, etc) that a $250 shotgun will never make up for. Getting someone to arm a home alarm system every night is much more easy to do than to get them train for the very real possibility of having to kill someone with a shotgun.

In other words, I'm not sure if a shotgun is the first level of defense that your wife should rely on.

- mike

[Whitey]

Try these NRA sites for classes;

basic firearms training classes; (http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp)

Refuse to be a Victim Seminar (http://www.nrahq.org/rtbav/schedule.asp?State=CO)- tailored specifically for women. More info & to get materials online. (http://www.nrahq.org/rtbav/)

When your wife understands that other women are doing the training and taking the classes, I think she would be more inclined to move forward with fire arms for self defense. Women tend to use other women as reinforcement, or acceptance as a way to support their determination on reaching a conclusion or making up their mind. IMHO!

Unfortunately, the next Refuse to Be a Vitim class in Colorado is in Delta, March 29, 2007. Maybe a little get-away with the wife before you leave.......

[grimgaunt]

thanks - anyone know anything about the DEHLTA classes held locally ?

[Letum]

With a 7 year old son around the house, if you do decide to get her a shotgun take the kid to the range and teach him about guns. Kids around guns need to learn to respect them and not treat them as toys and IMHO the best way to do that is to let them shoot and see what they do. On the other hand while I was in the service I read a book called "On Killing" it is basically the psycological effect of havbeing to kill another human. Most people would like to think that they can pull the trigger when the time comes, but only about 2% can pull the trigger with the intent to kill even in combat.

[quivvy]

if she doesnt have the time to train extensively, get her a 3-4" .38 revolver. teach her AND the kids gun safety FIRST. get her shooting as much as possible.

also, i agree with the fact that its risky to get her a gun if shes not truly comfortable using it agaisnt another human being - that decision MUST be hers. last thing you want is her to wield it, hesitate, and get it taken and used agaisnt her.

also, in regards to "The Firing Line" - If im not mistaken there was a suicide there a few months ago... an unstable female shooter was with her boyfriend when her boyfriend left her alone. she shot herself in the head. fortunately she was using SWC target loads that didnt leave the other side... had they, the shooter in the next lane may have been shot. I've heard less than stellar things of the place but can speak of NO personal experience.

[cheftyler]

Wow...didn't hear that about the firing line, ah well such is life.

[Jeff Mason]

it was more like a couple years ago, IIRC. I would have thought avter that incedent, they would have stepped up there controls over who gets on the line!

[Yota]

it was more like a couple years ago, IIRC. I would have thought avter that incedent, they would have stepped up there controls over who gets on the line!

How would they or anyone ever be able to predict that?

It's just an unfortunate event. People whack themselves and others all the time. \

This has nothing to do with The Firing Line. It's a nice range.

[ccondrey]

How would they or anyone ever be able to predict that?

It's just an unfortunate event.

x2

[grimgaunt]

thanks all, we are going to check stuff out this weekend. Have a sitter for the kid and about 6-7 hrs to try different options and sign up for a course.

thank you - this is more important to me because I am going to be leaving a anti-gun person alone at home for months that (IMHO) needs some training and resource in an area where the average Police response time (its actually county sheriff) is about 45 min

appreciate the advice and help

[Letum]

I was at the firing line tonight and they had fliers for a shotgun class. also been giving this some thought and if you gow ith the shotgun get a pump action. Every burgler/intruder knows the sound of that shotgun chambering a round and a lot of the time that would be enough to scare people off.

[Yucca-Man]

thanks all, we are going to check stuff out this weekend. Have a sitter for the kid and about 6-7 hrs to try different options and sign up for a course.

thank you - this is more important to me because I am going to be leaving a anti-gun person alone at home for months that (IMHO) needs some training and resource in an area where the average Police response time (its actually county sheriff) is about 45 min

appreciate the advice and helpCheck with the Elbert SO and see if they can set you up on an extended 'Increased Patrol' in the area. Ofttimes it's just a deputy looking around while passing through from one area to another, but if they area aware that you've had odd occurrences and the wife's home alone they're likely to keep an eye out for ya.

[Gunter]

I've come to believe that shotguns are no better for home defense than a pistol for a few reasons:


1. A person is far less likely to keep a shotgun handy (I mean tactically handy) than they are a small pistol,
2. You really do still have to aim them,
3. Shotty rounds can go through a wall too,
4. Shotties are less safe than pistols as defense guns around kids because they can't easily be concealed and because the physical safeties on them are easy to defeat unless they're trigger-locked (which renders them useless for defense)
5. They're cumbersome and difficult to wield indoors unless you get a smaller defense model

If she's game and can be gently shown that firearms are not inherently evil, I'd think about maybe a small semi-auto 380 or 9mm. Perhaps even a revolver, which is dead easy to use and is very reliable. And the safest place she can keep it so that it will be ready in the event of an attack - when there are kids around - is in a concealed carry holster on her person. It is legal for her to conceal-carry in the home.

But as others have said, all this is moot if she's not up for it or is too scared to safely handle or use a firearm.

at pistol ranges shotgun rules supreme,in my home i'd take a 12 any day.i dont buy the argument

[Yota]

Which part don't you buy, Gunter?

I don't see a lot of children or attacks at pistol ranges. :shrug:

[cheftyler]

pistol range = distance to target not where you go shoot :D