Fordasaurus Wrecks? WTF?

[gumcrew2]

I read this article today at school when I picked up the newspaper. While some of his points are almost-reasonable, most of it seems like complete tree-huggerness. His article seems to have pissed off more than a few people, many students were reading it in my English class and we discussed it's validity (or lack there of). Just thought I'd share.

http://www.mscd.edu/~themet/TheMetropolitan/06_07/Vol29_issue19/insight/quane.html

-Saul

[XJ Jeepin Girl]

Whether or not you agree or disagree, this is obviously a poorly written article. Sounds like something from my high school news paper. No one cares if this guy thinks Ford are for rednecks. He apparently can't write a good article without letting his bias and stereotypes write for him. :shrug:

[Big Dave]

He apparently can't write a good article without letting his bias and stereotypes write for him. :shrug:

Should fit in rather well with the mainstream media then!

[Steve]

Should fit in rather well with the mainstream media then!

And just about every professor on every college campus. :thumbsdown:

[Gunter]

i see nothing wrong with that article.
a prime example where the "free market" failed us one and all.
automotive needs are all out of whack.we need fuel efficient small but not tiny people movers.we dont need a 4x4 f350 4 door long bed for famliy duty,and that ONE trip to moab/where ever a year.what does ford make and sell to the PUBLIC?giant fuel sucking POS trucks.
gm same deal
dodge same deal
we are the MASTERS of truck design and building.lets make enuff for those that use them for work,and a bit more for the dual purpose folks.and tax/user fee the crap out of the single guy who has to have the latest greatest gigantic 4x4 shit pile to drive himself and a dirt bike all over hell and creation.
and yes,you will hear the cries of the nanny state.cry me a freaking river.the free market is not driving the design and production where it needs to be going,and we know detroit wont change that without laws telling it to do so.just like free market doesnt work when wal mart drives a company out of business and then it's manufacturing gets sent to china,it doesnt work either when detroit has no incentive to change it's products to smaller more fuel efficient vehicles.
IF jeep were smart enuff to have a VW style TDI mega fuel effecient turbo 4 or inline 6 for the wrangler,i'd be all over that like stink on fish!
but they dont,and wont.
yeah,that article is right on the money.:thumbsup:

[Snotty]

So what truck commercials is he watching? Every ford truck commercial I see, tha darn things are getting loaded to the gills with crap, or hauling a small building someplace. Me thinks the author is rambling though the vacant space between his ears, a bit to much.

[Steve]

So Gunter, you're advocating that car companies should be told by the government what vehicles to make and we should be told by the government what vehicles to buy and drive? Personally I don't want a little POS car to drive my family around in; I want something bigger and more substantial that will protect them better. You're saying that either I shouldn't be allowed to have my F-250 4x4 4 door and/or that the government should "tax/user fee the crap out of me" for having it???

Wow.

[Gunter]

So what truck commercials is he watching? Every ford truck commercial I see, tha darn things are getting loaded to the gills with crap, or hauling a small building someplace. Me thinks the author is rambling though the vacant space between his ears, a bit to much.

look on the road,tell me what most of these trucks are "hauling"

[Ink]

I have to agree with Gunter that there are too many of those types of vehicles out there for no other reason thatn "I want someting big" I would think less people would need the safty factor if there weren't so many of those types out there. Kinda cat chasing tail thing there. What I didn't hear mentioned was a special License procedures for those who need/want these vehicles. That might deter someone form the purchase.

[Gunter]

So Gunter, you're advocating that car companies should be told by the government what vehicles to make and we should be told by the government what vehicles to buy and drive? Personally I don't want a little POS car to drive my family around in; I want something bigger and more substantial that will protect them better. You're saying that either I shouldn't be allowed to have my F-250 4x4 4 door and/or that the government should "tax/user fee the crap out of me" for having it???

Wow.

well,if after 30+ years have passed since we had 3-4-500 hp cars that got barely the same mileage,have we REALLY learned anything?no,fuel consumption is the same or more now.
and yes,that is a poor choice for a family vehicle for DD use.i have fixed enuff carnage,i dont think the big vehicle protects better applies as much as it used to.that big truck is not a neccessity,perhaps like a ferrari it should be taxed as a luxury.

[JeepDiva]

:popcorn:

[Steve]

And I s'pose that single people and couples with no kids should only be allowed tiny vehlcles without a back seat - because, after all, they're not hauling extra people.

:rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

And I s'pose that single people and couples with no kids should only be allowed tiny vehlcles without a back seat - because, after all, they're not hauling extra people.

:rolleyes:

And that none of us should be allowed to have our 4 wheel drive vehicles since the extent of off-highway travel we enjoy is not required for our jobs??

[Snotty]

look on the road,tell me what most of these trucks are "hauling"

That isn't what he said.

Instead, Ford markets trucks to the everyman. The American populace is assaulted on a daily basis by commercials featuring blue-collar workers driving pretty, pristine trucks with nothing in the bed.

If that is how Ford is marketing, then I by your comments, Ford Marketing has failed. Because no one is using them the way they are supposed to be used. And I have yet to see a ford truck commercial that shows a simple family running to the store in diesel 350.

[Gunter]

i never said that.you anti nanny staters got it all wrong,ya'll prolly think i want a bureau of autos that steve and dave can apply to for the govt suggested family car right?WRONG.
a 6000lb truck that gets 10-15 mpg gallon for DD duties is dumb.AND the way these vehicles are marketed to us all is wrong.you guys no doubt think that is how it always have been,and it is not.trucks are poor all around vehicle choices for my exact reasons.
they sell us these wretched things on purpose,full well knowing that oil is a finite amount,and ticking away fast.just watch honda make its way with fuel effecient vehicles,while the big 3 keep making the crap they always make.
i'd go with honda stock right now if i were you.

[Gunter]

So what truck commercials is he watching? Every ford truck commercial I see, tha darn things are getting loaded to the gills with crap, or hauling a small building someplace. Me thinks the author is rambling though the vacant space between his ears, a bit to much.

that advertising has a small kernel of truth to it.most of those trucks dont haul anything but air 95% of the time.

[Big Dave]

So me DD'ing a F250 is stupid? Why?

[Oscar]

Shoot the way I look at it is this use oil faster then it will force the alternatives

[Steve]

So me DD'ing a F250 is stupid? Why?

Because Gunter says so. :shrug:

I'm waiting for him to post a pic of his Honda pulling a rig on a trailer up Vail Pass. I also commute daily (less than 2 miles) in a F250 diesel. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck on who will win if a Honda and my F250 meet unexpectedly on the road. ;)

[Snotty]

So me DD'ing a F250 is stupid? Why?

Cause it's a ford! :flipoff2:

[Gunter]

Because Gunter says so. :shrug:

I'm waiting for him to post a pic of his Honda pulling a rig on a trailer up Vail Pass.

did i ever say it would do that?
i said it is a poor choice for a DD.a honda might be able to haul a bicycle up vail pass!!

[Gunter]

So me DD'ing a F250 is stupid? Why?

what are you hauling?who are you giving rides to?what mileage do you get?what are the costs of that vehicle a month?fuel costs?
cant you find a better way to spend that extra cash?

[Big Dave]

If Honda made a vehicle I could fit in, I might just drive that. But at 6'5" I physically CANNOT drive a Honda!

[JeepDiva]

Cause it's a ford! :flipoff2:

So DD'ing a Dodge CTD is ok, then? :D

[scottycards]

My Dads C6 Corvette at 405HP makes over 28MPG on the highway at 78MPH.
Better than my Subaru Forester DD.
He documents every tank full. Over the life of the car- about 20,000 miles, he's over 25MPG average.

30 years ago, the Vette didn't make that kind of mileage, and with the exception of the rat motors, didn't make even close to that kind of power.

[Snotty]

that advertising has a small kernel of truth to it.most of those trucks dont haul anything but air 95% of the time.

What? Again, please show me a Ford F350 commercial that is being marketed to something less then an service industry. EVERY Ford F350 Commercial I see shows an F350 being loaded down, or hauling something. That is what this guy said. That ford Markets the F350 to the everyday man. Show me where. Period. Not opinion, but show me the commercial.

I think the the Author is confusing the light duty truck commercials with the F350. And I see very very few F350's being used for something other then work.

Now if you want to talk about the 150/0 & 250/0's then we can talk. But this dinkasaurus didn't get his facts straight.

[Snotty]

So DD'ing a Dodge CTD is ok, then? :D

I fail to see a problem with it! :D

[Steve]

what are you hauling? Who Cares? who are you giving rides to? Who Cares? what mileage do you get? Who Cares? what are the costs of that vehicle a month? Who Cares? fuel costs? Who Cares?cant you find a better way to spend that extra cash? Who Cares?

See my answers above. You could also substitute "It's nobody's business but mine" everywhere there's red above.

[Yucca-Man]

So me DD'ing a F250 is stupid? Why?DD'ing an F250 (3/4-ton) is only 75% as stupid as DD'ing an F350 1-ton, I suppose...

So - nanny-staters - please explain your position on the working guy who uses his F-350 for construction duty during the day, but also uses that vehicle (his only vehicle) at night and on the weekends for recreation and social use. Are you saying that he should be encouraged (required?) to purchase an econobox for use when he is not actively using the truck for 'hauling' purposes?

[ColoradoXJ]

holy dear gawd... i go to resources class for an hour and looky!!! :D

i would have NO problem with people driving large vehicles for DD and grocery getters IF, and only IF, they got the whole MPG thing figured out. we should be able to get such better mileage, or at least working on alternate fuel sources (not e85 :tisk: ) for these. I agree with Gunter in that if jeep marketed a super efficient turbo 4 or i6 engine, i'd be all over it. why can't auto makers do more, KNOWING that fuel is a finite resource, regardless of how long it takes for that petroleum to run out??? :rant: plus, it completely has been missed that petroleum is a base product in plastics, most synthetics, clothing, rubber, on and on and on.
anyway, back to point. the vast majority of people i see in large vehicles do not need them. if you haul lots of stuff regularly, go for it! if you haul 3 kids to soccer practice, buy a smaller suv (many offer a third row now) or a station wagon. i'm not saying that the government should step and and say yes you can drive this and no you can't drive that, but people need to think responsibly to what they are driving. it is not necessary to drive an h2/excursion/yukon xl/etc 1 mile to the store by yourself unless you are picking up enough food to feed somalia. :rant: off

[Swat]

I don't buy the argument that they never haul. I know many who have a truck for work or hobbies. They cannot afford another vehicle. It is better, more affordable to drive the truck daily than to have another vehicle to insure and maintain. Think about the resources that go into building that extra vehicle as well.

The article is biased, unAmerican, and out of touch!

[Big Dave]

what are you hauling?

During the summer months an average of 2-3 times a month I will be hauling an 18ft trailer with a 4,500+ lb Jeep on the back. And year round I use it to haul 2+ major appliances a couple times a month for work, not something possible in a Honda unless you want to strap a fridge to the roof.


who are you giving rides to?

Neighborhood schoolchildren. I lure them in with promises of free candy.

what mileage do you get?

16mpg

what are the costs of that vehicle a month?fuel costs?
cant you find a better way to spend that extra cash?

Cost and value are two entirely different things. What my F250 costs me every month might not be worth it to some people, but for the functionality and comfort that it offers ME, it is worth every penny of MY money.

[Snotty]

what are you hauling?who are you giving rides to?what mileage do you get?what are the costs of that vehicle a month?fuel costs?
cant you find a better way to spend that extra cash?

I haul home improvement stuff, brewing stuff, jeep parts, help my friends move, camping gear, etc, etc... I get on average of 18mpg in town and 22-24 on the highway depending on how hard I ride it.

Sure, rent a damn truck everytime I need one and waste the gas to go pick one up and drop it off.

[Gunter]

What? Again, please show me a Ford F350 commercial that is being marketed to something less then an service industry. EVERY Ford F350 Commercial I see shows an F350 being loaded down, or hauling something. That is what this guy said. That ford Markets the F350 to the everyday man. Show me where. Period. Not opinion, but show me the commercial.

I think the the Author is confusing the light duty truck commercials with the F350. And I see very very few F350's being used for something other then work.

Now if you want to talk about the 150/0 & 250/0's then we can talk. But this dinkasaurus didn't get his facts straight.

obviously you think the little numbers on the fenders mean very much.yeah,engines etc,so.all are not very fuel effecient,and theya re all over the damn place.i am supposed to show you something,but you should be able to see it for your self,and i am sorry if you cant.it is right out in the open

[Big Dave]

why can't auto makers do more, KNOWING that fuel is a finite resource, regardless of how long it takes for that petroleum to run out??? :rant:

Because the American consumer doesn't care?

Everyone SAYS they'd like better gas mileage, but how many of us are willing to make the sacrifices to drive a vehicle that gets better gas mileage?

Until American consumers show a large DEMAND, not desire, for high fuel economy the auto manufacturers have zero reason to dump money into the R&D to make vehicles more fuel efficient.

[ColoradoXJ]

What? Again, please show me a Ford F350 commercial that is being marketed to something less then an service industry. EVERY Ford F350 Commercial I see shows an F350 being loaded down, or hauling something. That is what this guy said. That ford Markets the F350 to the everyday man. Show me where. Period. Not opinion, but show me the commercial.

I think the the Author is confusing the light duty truck commercials with the F350. And I see very very few F350's being used for something other then work.

Now if you want to talk about the 150/0 & 250/0's then we can talk. But this dinkasaurus didn't get his facts straight.

i will agree with this though... for the most part. i know a number of people running f-350's for DD or dirtbike haulers (when a tacoma would suffice), but yes, the majority of 1ton trucks are for work/hauling. the author... he does nothing good for the conservation cause, mainly cause he sounds like an idiot.

[Gunter]

During the summer months an average of 2-3 times a month I will be hauling an 18ft trailer with a 4,500+ lb Jeep on the back. And year round I use it to haul 2+ major appliances a couple times a month for work, not something possible in a Honda unless you want to strap a fridge to the roof.



Neighborhood schoolchildren. I lure them in with promises of free candy.



16mpg



Cost and value are two entirely different things. What my F250 costs me every month might not be worth it to some people, but for the functionality and comfort that it offers ME, it is worth every penny of MY money.

THAT is the mindset detroit drools over.never mind the environment you leave to your kids.they will be there for you dave when you need a nice new fuel sucking pile of excrement on 4 or even 6 tires!

[Gunter]

Because the American consumer doesn't care?

Everyone SAYS they'd like better gas mileage, but how many of us are willing to make the sacrifices to drive a vehicle that gets better gas mileage?

Until American consumers show a large DEMAND, not desire, for high fuel economy the auto manufacturers have zero reason to dump money into the R&D to make vehicles more fuel efficient.

ahh,back to the free market.it solves EVERYTHING doesnt it?

[ColoradoXJ]

Because the American consumer doesn't care?

Everyone SAYS they'd like better gas mileage, but how many of us are willing to make the sacrifices to drive a vehicle that gets better gas mileage?

Until American consumers show a large DEMAND, not desire, for high fuel economy the auto manufacturers have zero reason to dump money into the R&D to make vehicles more fuel efficient.

unfortunately, i agree with you. and also unfortunately, call me a hypocrite if you need, my dd/rig gets worse than many of the bigger trucks (diesel, not gas motors). so i limit myself to not driving excessively. :shrug: it is a personal choice, for sure. and if you can justify it, please go for it. i know many people can't afford multiple vehicles. my brother has a 2500 ctd that gets about 22mpg. he hauls maybe 3 or 4 times a year, but he's in the navy, so the truck sits much of the time.

just please, if you make the choice to drive a bigger vehicle with poor mileage, do things like carpooling :D thanks.

[Snotty]

obviously you think the little numbers on the fenders mean very much.yeah,engines etc,so.all are not very fuel effecient,and theya re all over the damn place.i am supposed to show you something,but you should be able to see it for your self,and i am sorry if you cant.it is right out in the open

Dude, stay on target. the WHOLE ARTICLE talks about the F350. Nothing else. He comments on how the F350 is marketed to the EVERYMAN.

And yes, the numbers on the side of the truck mean quite a bit. For one, price. Another Registration and taxes. Three, use of the vehicle.

And just so you know, the Ford F150, not the F350 or any other truck is the number one selling truck in America. So his argument is totally off target and base! But then again, I doubt that would suit his argument...

[Gunter]

I haul home improvement stuff, brewing stuff, jeep parts, help my friends move, camping gear, etc, etc... I get on average of 18mpg in town and 22-24 on the highway depending on how hard I ride it.

Sure, rent a damn truck everytime I need one and waste the gas to go pick one up and drop it off.
consider this:
a smaller truck(costs less,uses less fuel,some what DD freindly)............buy a small trailer.doesnt cost much,and will outlast the truck tenfold.

[supremebeholder]

ahh,back to the free market.it solves EVERYTHING doesnt it?

Beats the alternative.

[Big Dave]

Beats the alternative.

x eleventy billion

[Snotty]

consider this:
a smaller truck(costs less,uses less fuel,some what DD freindly)............buy a small trailer.doesnt cost much,and will outlast the truck tenfold.

My wife drives a Dodge Dakota. Our 2500 gets better gas mileage and the motor will out last hers X 3.



Maybe you need to research a little more and worry about you are driving and it's impact on the environment before you start banging on people?

[Gunter]

My wife drives a Dodge Dakota. Our 2500 gets better gas mileage and the motor will out last hers X 3.

Maybe you need to research a little more and worry about you are driving and it's impact on the environment before you start banging on people?

why start now?:D

[Snotty]

Also, when we do tow the jeep to moab, the 2500 out performs her Dako on every level. And I have towed the jeep back and forth to moab with both trucks. Her little truck costs us more to use as a daily driver and in true use situations then our CTD does.

[ColoradoXJ]

not sure if gunter and i are coming from the same place here... but my argument (for once) is not enviro-based, it is finite-resource based. just flat out the fact that ONE DAY, probably after some of us are dead, oil will no longer be available AND our kids (for those of us who choose to add to the population :D ) will be forced with the dilema.

what i'm advocating is alternative fuels so that we can continue to power the motors that run our rigs and heat our homes and etc, and if they are cleaner than burning gas/diesel, sweet! added bonus.

[Steve]

Dang Snotty, quit trying to interject facts into this. It's all about opinions, not facts. :flipoff2:

[Big Dave]

not sure if gunter and i are coming from the same place here... but my argument (for once) is not enviro-based, it is finite-resource based. just flat out the fact that ONE DAY, probably after some of us are dead, oil will no longer be available AND our kids (for those of us who choose to add to the population :D ) will be forced with the dilema.

what i'm advocating is alternative fuels so that we can continue to power the motors that run our rigs and heat our homes and etc, and if they are cleaner than burning gas/diesel, sweet! added bonus.

I don't think you guys are coming from the same place. Gunter seems to think that if I'm not towing something every single mile I drive that I shouldn't have the truck that I do.

From an alternative fuel basis, I would think one would be looking for alternative ways to power the vehicles we currently own (like Bio for myself, Snotty, Steve, and the other diesel owners in here) or modifying engines to use other alternative fuels.

[Snotty]

Dang Snotty, quit trying to interject facts into this. It's all about opinions, not facts. :flipoff2::ban:


lol, sorry, I forgot...

ColoradoXJ, I can agree with your argument. Which oddly is why I drive a CTD. Because for what we need and do with our trucks, it is actually cost and environmently friendlier then my old Gasser 2500.

I also have the ability to use Bio which is a renewable resource. No gasser, no matter how good of fuel econ it gets can say that.

And this summer, I will run Bio 20 as well, even though it costs more.

[Jake_Blues]

Don't you know, you should all buy a 50CC scooter for trips to the corner post office, a 300CC motorcycle for your work commute on nice days, a hybrid 2 seater for dates and commutes on rainy days, a Jeep for off-road fun and snowy commutes, a 4 seat sedan for when you're taking your family out to dinner, a small pickup for when you need to haul small items, and an F350 for when you need to tow a trailer! YOU'LL HELP THE ENVIRONMENT!

-E

[ColoradoXJ]

I don't think you guys are coming from the same place. Gunter seems to think that if I'm not towing something every single mile I drive that I shouldn't have the truck that I do.

From an alternative fuel basis, I would think one would be looking for alternative ways to power the vehicles we currently own (like Bio for myself, Snotty, Steve, and the other diesel owners in here) or modifying engines to use other alternative fuels.

bio i'm good with. no worries, cause it seems viable. but i am in no way favorable of e85 for the sheer fact it is not sustainable and DOES damage the environment with byproducts of it's production. the only thing i can do now, is accept the fact that my hobbies are not the most enviro-friendly and do what i can to either increase my mileage (while not losing the lift/tires/etc) or drive less. which is the better option for now.

[ColoradoXJ]

Don't you know, you should all buy a 50CC scooter for trips to the corner post office, a 300CC motorcycle for your work commute on nice days, a hybrid 2 seater for dates and commutes on rainy days, a Jeep for off-road fun and snowy commutes, a 4 seat sedan for when you're taking your family out to dinner, a small pickup for when you need to haul small items, and an F350 for when you need to tow a trailer! YOU'LL HELP THE ENVIRONMENT!

-E

haha. funny. you forgot the frieghtliner to haul the f350 when it breaks down... it is a ford afterall... :flipoff2:







ps- that's not the action i'm arguing for :tisk:

[Big Dave]

the only thing i can do now, is accept the fact that my hobbies are not the most enviro-friendly and do what i can to either increase my mileage (while not losing the lift/tires/etc) or drive less. which is the better option for now.

I'm with you 100% there. That's one of many reasons I don't DD the ZJ anymore. I got worse mileage in my ZJ than I do in my F250, and the maintenence costs were MUCH higher, plus there was no easy option for alternative fuel sources in my ZJ.

[ColoradoXJ]

I'm with you 100% there. That's one of many reasons I don't DD the ZJ anymore. I got worse mileage in my ZJ than I do in my F250, and the maintenence costs were MUCH higher, plus there was no easy option for alternative fuel sources in my ZJ.

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=87069&highlight=cummins
:drool:
maybe run biodiesel in that badboy... :D


but yeah. time to go to work ya'll. have fun without me :flipoff2:

[jtw2]

This whole thread is proof that they teach nothing but government interventionism in public schools today.

It's a sad time we live in. :(

[Jake_Blues]

This whole thread is proof that they teach nothing but government interventionism in public schools today.

It's a sad time we live in. :(

I think it's more along the lines of the "it's not my fault" syndrome... It's not my fault, someone else should fix it! The goverment... there's a handy group to blame... the goverment should fix it!

Nevermind the fact that *we* are the government. And if the government DID make laws to force this type of thing, you can bet there would be an exception that allowed the members of congress to keep driving whatever car they damn well please.

My advice is, fix your own house first. It *is* your fault, and the government isn't going to do crap to help you, count on it. When you're driving that 50CC scooter around town, then you can bitch.

-E

[Yucca-Man]

consider this:
a smaller truck(costs less,uses less fuel,some what DD freindly)............buy a small trailer.doesnt cost much,and will outlast the truck tenfold.But what to do when the HOA "Nanny" won't allow you to keep that trailer at the house???

Hmmm??

[ScaldedDog]

Originally Posted by Big Dave
Because the American consumer doesn't care?

Everyone SAYS they'd like better gas mileage, but how many of us are willing to make the sacrifices to drive a vehicle that gets better gas mileage?

Until American consumers show a large DEMAND, not desire, for high fuel economy the auto manufacturers have zero reason to dump money into the R&D to make vehicles more fuel efficient.

ahh,back to the free market.it solves EVERYTHING doesnt it?

Gunter, what's your alternative to a free market? Government edict? Behavioral engineering through taxes? Free markets aren't perfect, they are just demonstrably superior to any alternative.

Let's face it, gas (or diesel) at $2/gallon simply isn't expensive enough to cause most folks to change their vehicle choices and driving habits. We can rant and rave all we want about oil being in short supply, but the fact is that it is not in short supply at current prices. When the price went to $3 last summer, did you see lines? Of course not, because at that price there was plenty to go around. Let a station drop their price to $1.00 for a day, and you'll see lines, because the demand is greater than the supply, at that price.

Now, if you really want a shortage, elect Hillary. Once she "takes those profits" (her words, at last weeks Democratic party meeting, when refering to Exxon's earnings announcement) and puts them in her little fund, oil companies will not have an incentive to drill, import or refine, and your little car will be parked in line for gas, the same as everyone else's.

This is just economics, guys. Phrases like "dumb choice" and "poor choice" are expressions of emotion, not economic reality.

Mark

[Commander]

consider this:
a smaller truck(costs less,uses less fuel,some what DD freindly)............buy a small trailer.doesnt cost much,and will outlast the truck tenfold.

That is until I load my Bronco on that small trailer and bend the frame and burn out it's bearings, and then burn out the tranny and blow the engine in the smaller truck while trying to tow said Bronco on trailer to Moab. Then as it turns out my F-350 is much more cost effecient and will actually get me and my Bronco to Moab and back.

So Gunter, what alternatives do you propose for those who do need to tow a heavy trailer or haul a large load even if it is only once in a while?

There are a lot of people who don't think you should own a Jeep and drive in on 4 wheel drive roads in our nations forests, but I think their opion on that is just as lame as yours is regarding my F-350. :thumbsdown:

[XJ Jeepin Girl]

I still think the article was poorly written, regardless of his opinion. :shrug: I guess I care about the way someone's opinion is expressed a lot more than what their opinion actually is.

[Big Dave]

I still think the article was poorly written, regardless of his opinion. :shrug: I guess I care about the way someone's opinion is expressed a lot more than what their opinion actually is.

Then you are definitely on the wrong board!!!!!!! :P

[Ooompa Loompa]

Then you are definitely on the wrong board!!!!!!! :P

:spit:

[Tom N]

The whole point of the article was that he is laughing about Ford and GM being in financial trouble. And face it, driving a truck with dual rear wheels and a topper is stupid. :flipoff2: Thats why my gas guzzler 1 ton truck has single rear wheels. :cool:

[Zed Mikey]

Everyone SAYS they'd like better gas mileage, but how many of us are willing to make the sacrifices to drive a vehicle that gets better gas mileage?
Me. :D

Geo Metro DD. Kickass little car. 40+mpg with over 200k on the odo. I don't DD my truck or my Jeeps.

[TheCopperCowboy]

Now I feel so guilty and used. I think I'm gonna sit in my 225K Powerstroke dually and let my tears drip onto the leather seats. What was I thinking? Oh, it wasn't you since I selfishly purchased a 40K vehicle for my business AND leisure. Loss of oil reserves? I'll use biofuels with a few, minor modifications and help the planet and future emerging businesses. Lumbering down the highway? Hardly, unless you've ever felt the power of a turbo diesel, a sport car would only rival that effect. When I'm not hauling hay, tools and equipment, my gooseneck horse trailer, or my 37' fifth wheel travel trailer, then I'm hauling a$$ down the highway, 'cause these things don't pay for themselves. I guess if you had the money, room, and want to be PC, a car or truck suited for the planned trip would work. But, if one size fits all, go big or go home. I'm getting 18 MPG unloaded, same as my TJ and my wifes Liberty. Does size matter? Not in this case. :cool:

[XJ Jeepin Girl]

Then you are definitely on the wrong board!!!!!!! :P

In the world of journalism, that is how I feel about writing.

You know I can't think that and even be on CO4x4.org at the same time. :P

[gumcrew2]

I wrote a letter to the author (he's the editor) and he responded back saying that he only has 500 words to fit his stuff in and that he hoped he covered it by saying that he recognizes a certain piece of the population needs these trucks. Um, no, that doesn't cut it when you accuse everyone driving one of not needing one.

I know from all my friends and from everyone here that 90% or more of you who drive a big 'ol truck actually use it.

-Saul

[Snotty]

Nice of him to help us define who "needs" them.

[rckkrwlr460]

ahh,back to the free market.it solves EVERYTHING doesnt it?

Some capitol letters in the proper places and some spaces between your sentences might make your point easier to read. I am not going to join your band wagon ever but I would like to strain a little less to read your posts. Pound for pound my Dodge diesel is more efficient than any Honda. I would like to see a Honda get 21 mpg weighing 9000lbs and towing anything.

[ColoradoXJ]

This whole thread is proof that they teach nothing but government interventionism in public schools today.

It's a sad time we live in. :(

i'm interested in your reasoning behind this... :shrug: i am NOT advocating government control, i'm pushing for personal responsibility. as i said, if you can justify it (and afford it), fine. just please don't commute alone in your massive h2 if you can help it.

[ScaldedDog]

as i said, if you can justify it (and afford it), fine. just please don't commute alone in your massive h2 if you can help it.

That's an economic decision that's ours to make. We have no stake in each other's decisions.

Mark

[ColoradoXJ]

That's an economic decision that's ours to make. We have no stake in each other's decisions.

Mark

here i will disagree. we are talking about a FINITE resource. are you familiar with the Tragedy of the Commons?

I understand that it is a personal economic decision, and that's fine. But, the claim that there is NO stake in each others decisions... :shrug:

[Rk Crlr]

Someone argued to use a SUV instead of a pickup....

according to the MPG posted many of you:
your pickups get better mileage than either of my SUVs and mine are both japaneese.

ColoradoXJ: there are studies showing that oil may NOT be a finite resource. It may replenish. Either way, we will move on to another source of power as soon as it is cheaper than fossil fuels. Right now none are.

At present gas prices I can get rid of one of my 19 mpg japaneese SUVs for a mini cooper and save at least ~$150 month in gas. Course my payment will increase by nearly $100 of that. So I'll save $50 per month. And I can't carry squat (not even a spare). Course, I'll have a blast driving it! And there goes my gas savings.....

[ScaldedDog]

here i will disagree. we are talking about a FINITE resource. are you familiar with the Tragedy of the Commons?

I understand that it is a personal economic decision, and that's fine. But, the claim that there is NO stake in each others decisions... :shrug:

Of course oil is a finite resource, as are all resources that are sold for a price. That's where the "Freedom of the Commons" logic breaks down. Oil is not a "common" resource: It is owned, by either governments or private institutions, and sold at the prevailing market price.

If, by "finite", you're implying that we'll eventually run out, then I presume you'd also agree that prices will rise as that occurs, correct? It is that rise in price that will drive innovation in the search for alternatives. In other words, alternatives will be found when a profit can be made on them.

I know we like to rant and rave and shame others into behaving like we think they should behave but, as I mentioned in a prior post, those feelings have no basis in economic reality. They are simply emotional arguments who's chief contribution is to cause threads like this to go on forever. :D

Mark

[ColoradoXJ]

oil is renewable, however, not replenishable in a HUMAN time frame... sorry. so unless you found the fountain of youth and will live forever, it is finite for US.

and, while oil may not run out soon due to motor vehicles, our society is based on products that use an oil base. so maybe... we should focus on conserving the fuel we use in our vehicles and for power and find alternatives to replace it, cause we all know that our use of oil for plastics, synthetics, and just about everything else that uses oil and isn't being recycled isn't going to decrease any time soon.

i see the personal economic benefit of not owning multiple vehicles and using an suv for dd/rig/towing. i do. but like i said, we should try and still be responsible about using those larger vehicles.

[svoman2300]

There are a couple of guys with manginas here that are trying to tell us that we shouldn't be driving big trucks that get poor MPGs. The last I heard the 4.0's don't get very good mileage especially after being modded with large tires and lower gears. Being on a offroad forum and bitching about people driving their kids to school and themselves to work in their gas guzzlers and then going out offroading and wasting gas for no reason what so ever seems like a moot point.

[gumcrew2]

Can't someone just make my Jeep run on cow shit or something?? O wait, cow farts! Pure Methane gas, sweet.

-Saul

[nridler]

2005 modified rubicon unlimited..........13 mpg if i'm lucky
2005 f150 (sold to get f350) best tank i ever got was 17.1 mpg
2006 f350 psd best tank was 20.9 mpg

[ColoradoXJ]

There are a couple of guys with manginas here that are trying to tell us that we shouldn't be driving big trucks that get poor MPGs. The last I heard the 4.0's don't get very good mileage especially after being modded with large tires and lower gears. Being on a offroad forum and bitching about people driving their kids to school and themselves to work in their gas guzzlers and then going out offroading and wasting gas for no reason what so ever seems like a moot point.

My xj = about 13mpg.
My brothers 2005 ctd = about 21mpg
My old civic from high school = 35mpg minimum

Why don't i drive a civic? can't wheel it (well, kinda). and can't afford to have a rig and a dd.
Why don't i have a ctd? definitely can't afford it, and not great for wheeling.
Why do i have my xj? cause i want it. and to be able to keep it and not go broke buying gas, i moved close to school and work. my commute (if i drive) is about 2 miles, and light rail happens to be 2 blocks from my apartment. I'm trying not to be judgemental about those who choose to drive vehicles that get poor mileage, cause we all do, myself included. that'd make me a hypocrite. however, seeing a bunch of huge trucks and suv's rolling down 1-25 with one person in them kinda gets under my skin, just because there are other options such as light rail and carpooling. Just saying. But trust me, to those of you who don't have to worry about the economics of it...more power to you. :D

[Elk]

How about since I don't have kids to use up resources I'll just trade that for what I use now? :flipoff2:
And yes, I drive an F-350 dually!

[Big Dave]

Wanted to bring this one back . . . .

Last couple tanks I've filled up on I've used B20 BioDiesel (20% Bio, 80% #2). Let's say 9 months out of the year I run B20 (to avoid the fuel gelling problems of B100) and then during the summer months I run B100 (100% USA made Bio).

Assuming consistent averages thoughout the year in mileage and fillups, only 60% of the fuel I would be purchasing would be "regular" diesel and the other 40% is US made AND quite renewable.

Does that still make me a heathen?

[Steve]

Does that still make me a heathen?

Yep. :flipoff2:

Since there is no biodiesel on the western slope, I'm a bigger heathen than you. :shrug:

[ColoradoXJ]

Wanted to bring this one back . . . .

Last couple tanks I've filled up on I've used B20 BioDiesel (20% Bio, 80% #2). Let's say 9 months out of the year I run B20 (to avoid the fuel gelling problems of B100) and then during the summer months I run B100 (100% USA made Bio).

Assuming consistent averages thoughout the year in mileage and fillups, only 60% of the fuel I would be purchasing would be "regular" diesel and the other 40% is US made AND quite renewable.

Does that still make me a heathen?

:thumbsup: i like it. when my brother's ctd 2500 comes back to CO for the summer, rest assured, it'll be running bio. and then i'll be able to see this argument from both sides of the fence :D

[jtw2]

I'm soooo glad I don't give a flying fig about what a bunch of libs think I should do and instead to what ever the fawk I want to. Makes life so much easier not being all riddled with angst.

[Big Dave]

I'm soooo glad I don't give a flying fig about what a bunch of libs think I should do and instead to what ever the fawk I want to. Makes life so much easier not being all riddled with angst.

??? Not sure who this is directed at. My post was not to say "does the general public think what I'm doing is okay? OMG what will people say about me."

I bought my truck because it's what I wanted. And if I can reduce my dependency on foreign oil to the equivalent of me driving a car that gets 25mpg, why wouldn't I do it?

[jtw2]

wasn't directed at you. just the thread in general. I just can't believe we've become such a nation of people bent on minding everyone else's business to the point that they will do what ever they can to convince themselves that everything is somehow their business. Laws aren't good enough now. If you don't do what they want they burn down or vandalize your property.

[Big Dave]

wasn't directed at you. just the thread in general. I just can't believe we've become such a nation of people bent on minding everyone else's business to the point that they will do what ever they can to convince themselves that everything is somehow their business. Laws aren't good enough now. If you don't do what they want they burn down or vandalize your property.

Gotcha. Your posts in this thread kinda had me confused, but I'm with ya now.

[ColoradoXJ]

wasn't directed at you. just the thread in general. I just can't believe we've become such a nation of people bent on minding everyone else's business to the point that they will do what ever they can to convince themselves that everything is somehow their business. Laws aren't good enough now. If you don't do what they want they burn down or vandalize your property.

don't worry, i'm not gonna burn your truck. i ran out of kerosene :flipoff2:

seriously jtw2, i didn't mean what i was saying to be :tisk: at people for their choice in vehicle. as i said, if you can justify it, then great. but if you can justify it, then you have taken the responsibility of the resources you use and done the 'math'. if you can't justify it, that's your issue, but there are ramifications for others. yes, the market will drive oil prices and it will drive innovation and it will drive the conversion of oil resources to oil reserves. but, we should always be looking for something.

i don't have the answers, that's why i'm in school... to maybe someday be able to provide one. it's not my business what you drive and why. but ignorance of the issue of oil consumption does not make it go away my friend.

[bender]

I see alot of posts talking about mileage, my 12v dodge gets 21mpg and I make 517hp and well over 1000 lb ft of torque, I had an 03 dmax that got 19 and dozens upon dozens of friends who do the same or better.

now if the choice is driving an impala or something (i`m a big boy no honda for me) that gets 24mpg or my truck at 21 i`m gonna pick my truck, even if I never haul anything again.

[Unlimited04]

And I see very very few F350's being used for something other then work.


all you gotta do is look on ebay and try to find a F350, Dodge 3500 or a Chevy/GMC 2500HD or 3500 with less than 200k miles on it and isn't beat to crap. If its a diesel, they are hard to find. Trucks this heavy are meant to be workhorses, and any person in their right mind isn't going to buy a dually unless its going to be used for a purpose requiring that much load capacity.

That being said...if you're driving a HD truck every day like 4 miles to go sit in an office, you need something more economical.:shrug:

[Steve]

That being said...if you're driving a HD truck every day like 4 miles to go sit in an office, you need something more economical.:shrug:

Define "need" and who gets to decide that? :confused:

[creepycrawler]

Personally I don't want POS, but I do buy him :beer: .


It's good that you cleared that up because people were talking. :flipoff2: