OT: To weld or NOT to weld???

[Thomas Lester]

Sorry for the off topic nature of this post, but I know a lot of you make your own mods and such and I knew I could get some opinions.

I just got back from home depot and saw a nice little MIG welder on sale. It got me thinking about fabricating my own parts (bumpers, skids, trailer, etc). I haven't welded anything since HighSchool shop class and even then it was just spot welding and a few seams here and there. In shop, I dealt with very thin metals. I know to build quality skids and such, I'll need to go with quite a bit thicker steel.

So... how tough is it? Is it worth it to take the time to get my skills up? What about schematics? Has anyone collected any good schematics for Jeep stuff?

Also, what else (besides the welder and materials) would I need to get started?

Thanks...

-t

[Mike S.]

you will save yourself a truck load of money if you learn to weld. It just matters on weather or not you want to take the time to learn. If I had a welder, Steve, I would definately learn to weld, if for nothing else just to know that you can.

[Brian1]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Thomas Lester:
Also, what else (besides the welder and materials) would I need to get started?<hr></blockquote>

I would say a 4.5" angle grinder and a metal chop saw would be really helpful.

[yarddog]

I have a Lincoln Weld Pak 100 from Home Depot, and it will weld 1/4" in a single pass, which is perfect for most of the mods I do on my truck.

Welding is not hard, it's all about practice. The more you weld the better you get. I got some 1/4" scrap and started running beads, horizontal and vertical up. When your beads look good start building.

You will need: helmet, gloves, chip hammer, wire brush. Also you will need a 4 1/2" grinder. Welding and grinding go hand in hand. A chop saw would be really nice, but I have been able to cut everything so far with a cut off wheel on the grinder and a sawzall. A 10 pound spool is nice too. It really sucks to run out of wire when your in the middle of something.

So it is definately worth the investment. It's so nice to be able to build what you want when you want.

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: yarddog ]</p>

[fsjeeper]

I would just make sure you do some research before you put out some $ I would recomend you don't go with a 110v unit you will find it won't be enough and make sure you go with a brand name you can get parts for. Also the best way to go would be using a shield gas and not fluxcore wire, it is much cleaner. When using gas go with CO2 there is no reason to let someone talk you into Argon or a mix gas, cost more and not needed. Use .035 wire that will do all your needs.
Check out Ram Welding Supply www.ramweldingsupply.com (http://www.ramweldingsupply.com) they have good prices but compare the total with shipping cost to the local supply houses. This is an invesment so don't cut yourself short.
Good Luck

[RockYacht]

As a fairly good "guy with a welder" (long story) I'm with fsjeeper. Don't go with the 110v model. They are really only good for sheetmetal work. .125" material max. Don't believe what they tell you on the box. Yes you can weld .250" with them but that's in the hands of a very experiences operator. You really have to know what you are doing. There just isn't the operating capacity in one of these little units to do quality fabrication.

Save yourself some headaches and go for a small 220v machine up front. There are plenty of models to choose from and just as many manufactures. You want nothing to do with gassless operation. Flux core wire is a PIA, you might as well just buy a stick machine. One of the major bennies to MIG is no clean up. Again DITTO on the CO2, as a beginner you will never need the advantages of the mixed gas / ARGON.

On thing to know about the machines you are looking at from the local do it yourself stores, i.e Home Depot. They are scaled down models of the real thing. Kind of like comparing a Chavy to a Cadilac. Yes it may say Lincoln on the box, Just like both cars are from GM, but they are not the same. The "Home Depot" model are made specifically for that market. Cheap, Cheap, cheap.

One more thing to consider is duty cycle. Most of these "cheap" models have a very low duty cycle. Duty cycle is the amount of time you can continuously weld in a 10 minute period. So a 20% duty cycle = 2 minutes out of 10. So for each ten minutes of operation you can effectively weld 2 minutes. Another reason they are so inexpensive.

Not saying you need a professional/industrial machine, just saying for a few more bucks you can have a machine that will last you a life time, produce good welds (depending on operator), and one that will actually make fabricating fun. Ask about warranty and service. 10 bucks says you get no help from "Home Depot" of any kind. They are going to have to send it in. Which means they send it to their regional office, it sits, they send it off, it sits, then it finally gets back to and authorized repair facility, meaning the cheapest bider, it sits, and the the reverse on the way back. Do you want your machine repaired by Joe's electronis and pawn shop??? Go talk to a Lincoln, Hobart, Miller dealer and see what they can do. Questions don't cost anything. Chances are if you buy the whole outfit including gas service contract you can get a really good deal on a quality machine.

Sorry for rambling, just hate to see people think they are getting a "good" deal only to fight it every bit of the way.

Oh and for accessories, you absolutely have to have a grinder. I like the 4 1/2" Milwaukee I have. They are absolutely the best in power hand tools. They will last a life time. Beyond that you will need some type of cutting tool. For a beginner I'd recommend a SAWZALL. They are so versatile. Again I like my Milwaukee.

[yarddog]

The Weld Pak is a good beginner set up. I don't have access to 220V, if you do, then by all means get one. But if not then it will work. If you do go with a 110V model, you shuold use flux because it has much deeper penetration than sheilded gas does. It does splatter, but do you want strength or looks?

It all boils down to how much money you want to spend and how much power you have access to. But, like everyone says, definatly do some research. This site has been very helpfull for me Hobart welders. (http://http://www.hobartwelders.com/talk/dboard.pl)

[MonsterZ]

Just to be different, I'd like to chime in that I have had good luck with my stick welder. Mine is a Lincoln AC/DC and I can weld anything from sheet metal (not real thin sheet, though) to 1/2" stuff. Plus, the cost of it doesn't even approach that of a 220v Mig. It's true that it is more difficult to learn to weld with a stick, but there are also advantages: it requires less metal prep to weld on and burns right through rust, paint and other crud, it's cheaper and will do everything you need a welder to do, plus you can also purchase a carbon-arc torch attachment and have a torch for very little extra $$.

I've contemplated getting a cheapy 110v Mig just for doing thin sheet metal work, because it's tough with the arc. I figure that even if I do purchase one of those $200 cheapies, I'll still have less $$ into my 2 welders than the cost of 1 good mig.

[RockYacht]

Good point Z, every one should burn the livin' shit out of themselves doing overhead with a stick. ;) Builds character graemlins/thefinger.gif Oh and drop the slag down your boot after pants have snuck up and in them when you weren't watching. That one is a riot. Damn near fell off a 70 foot silo with that manuver...

Seriously if you can master a stick machine, you can weld any thing anywhere!

[Mudnyrey]

Bob~
Read your novel.... graemlins/thefinger.gif Good points made!

You will spend a few Hundred dollors for instence... A Lincoln cheapy at Home Depot/Lowe's will run you around $345 or so without the Co2 kit. A welding supply co. welders, like a (Step above) is the lincoln SP135, (they don't make the SP125 any more, but you can still perchase them). They have better transformers in them for Higher amp out put, which will give you a little better "Duty" cycle. At the welding supply co. (on average price :note) for the SP135
110v (20% Duty) will run you $675 or so with Co2 kit without bottle. The bottle will run you another $100 bucks or so with fill. but the bottle is yours. You can easily rent them, but in long run, Buy it!
A SP175 220v (30% Duty)will run you $825 with Co2 kit without bottle. Either unit will come with Flux cord. You will want to buy solid wire if running Co2. A welding supply company, you will spend more, but will have a better unit with better capabilities and duty cycle. Just depends on how often you are going to use it and how much graemlins/bounce4.gif graemlins/bounce4.gif your willing to spend, and for what you will be using for.
Don't just check into lincolns, Millers and Hobarts are very good units as well. Hobart is made by Miller! graemlins/thefinger.gif Don't forget about the welding skins you will need, if you don't already have them. they are fairly cheap, but depending on the helmet, there are some nice ones! for about $200 bucks, you can perchase a shield/Lense that adjusts once you arc, then adjusts back, instead of lifting your shield/glasses all the time.

Good Luck on your decision!

Chris

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mudnyrey ]</p>

[RockYacht]

Good point on the SP135. This is a great little machine. You get what you pay for. Look around the net there are a bunch of discount places out there that sell to the public. And I'm not pro Lincoln. Miller and Hobarts anre great machines. Use the lincoln SP135 as a model, all the manufactures offer something similar to this machine. If you are set on a 110 machine this is what you should be looking for, my .02.

Oh and one more reason to shy from the "Home Depot" version is adjustibility. The last one i looked at while killing time there (6 months ago) only had specific switch selection for heat and wire speed. Like A B C D for heat and 1 2 3 4 for wire speed. They weren't adjustable, you pick a setting and live with it. Not the easiest thing to work with for a "rookie". The better machines will be variable rheostats for wire speed and better yet for heat as well.

Closing my novel now graemlins/thefinger.gif

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Levenhagen ]</p>

[MonsterZ]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bob Levenhagen:
Good point Z, every one should burn the livin' shit out of themselves doing overhead with a stick. ;) Builds character graemlins/thefinger.gif Oh and drop the slag down your boot after pants have snuck up and in them when you weren't watching. That one is a riot. Damn near fell off a 70 foot silo with that manuver...

Seriously if you can master a stick machine, you can weld any thing anywhere!<hr></blockquote>

Now that I think about it, if I factored in the cost of all the shoes, socks, jeans and jackets I've burned up, I coulda just about bought me a nice 220v mig and saved myself the pain!

[Mudnyrey]

Good Novel, Not closed Book! graemlins/thefinger.gif

Again... another chapter for wire speeds and settings! The Home Depot/Lowe's still have those settings! :mad: Grrrrrr.... but what do you expect for a model that is half the sprice of a superior unit and parts made from Indonesia/Mexico etc. graemlins/thefinger.gif No offense to those of ethnic group! I seen flaming in hear before! graemlins/thefinger.gif graemlins/thefinger.gif

How many months and counting.... :eek: :rolleyes:

Bob/Z ~~ LAMAO! No Joke! graemlins/bounce3.gif graemlins/bounce3.gif :eek:

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mudnyrey ]</p>

[RockYacht]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MonsterZ:
Now that I think about it, if I factored in the cost of all the shoes, socks, jeans and jackets I've burned up, I coulda just about bought me a nice 220v mig and saved myself the pain!<hr></blockquote>

graemlins/spit.gif no kidding eh?

Slag burns are like tatoos, Mary was noticing them all again while she was here the last 2 weeks. And it's been 6 months since I struck an arc :(

[Mudnyrey]

Tom~
Being that your learning all over again, A lincoln 100 (110v) will do most of the work you have described. I just seen it on sale at Lowe's for $245, and will weld up to approximately 1/2" plate. The gas kit would be an additional $90 bucks, But well worth it for nice cleaner welds! The lincoln will come with standard spool of .035 mig wire. The Lincoln is a decent kit for minor job repairs, such as you described. I would recomend doing soem research first! The Lincoln 155 220v ( up to 5/16 plate)is the one I am looking into,But I am not going to be using it a lot. Only for minor repairs and small 3/8" plate repair, so $$ is the only factor for me, and both will do everything I need.


Chris

[squirrelman83]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MStew:
If I had a welder, Steve, I would definately learn to weld, if for nothing else just to know that you can.<hr></blockquote>

Ha ha ha. graemlins/thefinger.gif I know, I know, I need to learn to use it. I need to go pick up a welding book at the library or something and thumb through it. Someday... :rolleyes: ~Steve

[Hurc]

I bought a century 175 that is 110v last year, it came with regulators and stuff for gas, but I have not hooked it up yet. I weld everything with it, I have made 6 bumpers, 2 skids, a desk lamp, and countless other things with great sucess. For 1/4" stuff I just crank the heat to max and weld slow, all my welds seem to hold up really well. I did the spring over on the 66 with it and the welds on the perches have held up fine. If I was going to look into welding more stuff I would go 220v all the way with gas. I do all my metal work with a circual saw with an abrasive blade, and a harbor frieght $15 grinder that has lasted 2 years with HEAVY use. I have trouble welding sheet metal, I just bobbed my 70 Jeepster and I am having trouble getting the ass of it welded back on..... :D

[RockYacht]

Hurc, not to say it can't be done... But you really need to convert over to full MIG operation for sheetmetal. And go down to .023" wire. Trying to do sheetmetal with the .035" flux core wire is like trying to weld it with a stick machine. For sheetmetal work I like to use Steel Mix for the shielding gas. Its 75% CO2 / 25% ARGON (If I remember right) Welding sheetmetal is an art all in itself. Patience is the key. Stitch weld it 1/2" or so at a time or you will warp the he!! out of it. Then you get to see how good you are at body work too!!! And believe it or not grinding the welds will warp sheetmetal also.