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guapotaco
July 26th, 2010, 05:26 PM
so i blew up the dodge this weekend, loud bang and a big black cloud of smoke, its a 2000 3/4, 4x4 with the dreaded 24v VP44 injection pump, i can pretty much guarantee thats what blew up, anyone had a big bang and then go dead and not start? i have looked at all the forums and what not and am 99% sure thats what it is, just want to see if anyone has any good ideas on diagnostic and what vp 44 folks are using these days, i am pretty set on the Blue Chip stuff as it seems he has been there, done that on these trucks many times, it's more money but i want some peace of mind, i dont want to blow up with my rig and trailer hooked on in the middle of the highway again anytime soon

Jeff Mason
July 26th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Crack a couple of injectors and turn the engine over. if the pump is working, there will be diesel leaking out.

I researched pump failures a while back, don't remember anything about a loud noise when they go bad. Are you sure that there isn't something else wrong?

Flake
July 26th, 2010, 07:02 PM
Were you making a lot of boost when it went boom?

co84rc
July 26th, 2010, 08:33 PM
my truck made a huge boom when it blew the intercooler hose off but it never stopped running.

Chris Halvorson
July 26th, 2010, 08:57 PM
so i blew up the dodge this weekend, loud bang and a big black cloud of smoke, its a 2000 3/4, 4x4 with the dreaded 24v VP44 injection pump, i can pretty much guarantee thats what blew up, anyone had a big bang and then go dead and not start? i have looked at all the forums and what not and am 99% sure thats what it is, just want to see if anyone has any good ideas on diagnostic and what vp 44 folks are using these days, i am pretty set on the Blue Chip stuff as it seems he has been there, done that on these trucks many times, it's more money but i want some peace of mind, i dont want to blow up with my rig and trailer hooked on in the middle of the highway again anytime soon

Are you pulling any codes? Check that first. There are several P-codes that are VP-44 dead codes.

guapotaco
July 27th, 2010, 04:49 PM
thxs for the replys, i havent been able to do anything yet, truck is still 45 miles away in a parking lot, i have to check codes, fuel supply etc... i looked at everythting that could be obvious the other night when it blew and theres nothing that i saw, what if any vp44's have you guys run? seems like alot of choices out there these days
i was at a light and just hit the gas to go and bam, it didnt really go kaboom, but it had a loud poof and a huge cloud of black smoke and then wouldnt start again, seems i have power, starter etc...

VortecCJ
July 27th, 2010, 05:39 PM
If guys would change their fuel filters on time and upgrade their lift pumps or at least check their volume once and a while, they would almost never have problems with the vp44's. I've seen the stock injection pumps go more than 170,000 on several trucks.

Check to see if you have the P0216 code in pcm.

guapotaco
July 27th, 2010, 05:51 PM
If guys would change their fuel filters on time and upgrade their lift pumps or at least check their volume once and a while, they would almost never have problems with the vp44's. I've seen the stock injection pumps go more than 170,000 on several trucks.

Check to see if you have the P0216 code in pcm.

i have more miles than that already and will assume this is the first pump, dont know as i am the third owner, i keep all my stuff changed and clean and have an after market pump too

Chris Halvorson
July 30th, 2010, 07:52 AM
Check codes first. All we are doing is assuming...and you know what that does.

guapotaco, what aftermarket lift pump do you have and do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If you do have a gauge, what was the fuel pressure?

To answer your question about VP-44's, do not go cheap. I would look up Midwest Injection, they have good prices and a good reputation for putting out great products. They also sell a Hot Rod VP-44, but with the extra money spent on that, you can get a nice set of injectors installed and get more power if that is what you are looking for.

MDert
July 30th, 2010, 09:30 AM
Call me Ill go with you to scan it/look at it. Where is the truck? three-zero-nine-2954 matt

guapotaco
August 3rd, 2010, 05:38 PM
Call me Ill go with you to scan it/look at it. Where is the truck? three-zero-nine-2954 matt

hey matt, i forgot you are a diesel mechanic right? i think lucas told me that, i ran the codes and its the 1688 dead computer on the vp44, time to save up

chris: i have a stanadyne 100 series lift pump and pre filter into the stock filter, i dont have a stock lift pump unless it is in the tank and i forgot to look at that to see if thats the case, i dont think it has anything but the stanadyne( 10-12 idle, 6-7 load) I know the vp only requires 5 lbs for it to work at maximum, but have seen some discussions lately about more volume in the lift pump and that having a cooling affect on the vp and computer
now i am thinking that it doesnt have enough volume and should up grade to a Fass or airdog type set up, what are you guys running? i have an edge ez and i dont plan to crank things up any more for right now

MDert
August 4th, 2010, 09:48 AM
hey matt, i forgot you are a diesel mechanic right? i think lucas told me that, i ran the codes and its the 1688 dead computer on the vp44, time to save up

Yep I am. That sucks, those VP44 arent cheap at all. Let me know if you need help swaping it out. :beer:

guapotaco
August 4th, 2010, 01:00 PM
Yep I am. That sucks, those VP44 arent cheap at all. Let me know if you need help swaping it out. :beer:

thxs, i think my buddy( he's a dodge tech) is going to help me and show me whats up so i know how to do it again one day,do you work in a shop somewhere?
do you know anything about this lift pump i have and if it has enough volume etc...? what kind of lift pump do you suggest? i am hearing bad things about the Fass set up right now, but only because of the filters they are using and not separating the water good enough

Chris Halvorson
August 4th, 2010, 11:49 PM
Your LP pressure is too low in my opinion. I would look into something else if I were you. VPs are not cheap.

guapotaco
August 5th, 2010, 08:44 AM
so whats your suggestion?, looks like Fass or Airdog for the most part, i see alot of guys talking Raptor or something like that

guapotaco
August 5th, 2010, 08:51 AM
http://www.thedieselstore.com/template/productOutput.php?&partNum=FASDDRP&VehNum=1112598
could i use this and mount in the stock location with the stock filter?(still have that) and leave my stanadyne pump back on the frame etc...
or am i needing to look at one of the complete systems and get rid of the stanadyne?
http://www.stanadyne.com/docs/pubf/99795.pdf
this is what i have, just the head, pump and filter, it's a revere flow set up
do all these systems use similar or same hardware to connect lines etc...

MDert
August 5th, 2010, 09:13 AM
Im between working at KD diesel and Jimmys66. Yea Ive seen it where the weak POS lift pumps starve the injection pump and grenade it. Ive never had an issue with FASS but Im sure there is someone out there to contest. Not sure about volume either.

guapotaco
August 5th, 2010, 09:20 AM
can you answer my couple of questons in the above post if you can? what can i do? and is that a viable option to just add another pump? i would think the pumps would need to push the same to work together but i am not sure really, kind of new to these things and have alot to learn, but i dont want to starve the vp44 when i replace it so i have to get some thing going to increase fuel pressure

Chris Halvorson
August 5th, 2010, 11:49 PM
can you answer my couple of questons in the above post if you can? what can i do? and is that a viable option to just add another pump? i would think the pumps would need to push the same to work together but i am not sure really, kind of new to these things and have alot to learn, but i dont want to starve the vp44 when i replace it so i have to get some thing going to increase fuel pressure

The FASS DDRP is a good pump on the cheap. You can still use your stock filter housing. I posted a link on other treads (manwiththeplan tranny thread), but I will post up another link.
http://www.mwfi.com/VP44.htm

I have had FASS pumps on all my diesels (2). Great product with even better customer service. The 150 series pump gets you the filter/air & water seperator, but if you can't swing the extra cost...you have to do what is needed. If you already need a VP, the combo at midwest fuel injection is the best deal (1500.00 for both). At my friends shop, he will not even install an airdog (due to being a FASS Dist.). One of my friends in TX has a airdog on his D-max and really likes it. So that is a cheaper alternative.

As stated in the other thread, I wouldn't go below 10 psi pressure to your VP. I have my FASS at 16-17 psi and never drops below 14-15 psi no matter what. My Edge/Juice is set up to alarm at 10 psi, where you are at idle.

Hope this helps you out a little.

MDert
August 6th, 2010, 08:06 AM
Install one of these while youre at it. Unless you have an edge programmer that tells you like Chris H said.
http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/part_number=1081133/532.0?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleshopping&os=googleshopping

lj06
August 6th, 2010, 05:47 PM
Better volume &keeping the pressure above 8psi is the key
this kept my vp44 tell 160k not bad imo
i have a big line kit w/an fittings (got rid the banjo orfices at 50k)&3/8 line all the way to the pump ,w/edge programmer to watch fuel pressure
when ever i get below 8psi under load i know it is time for a new fuel filter
dont have the money for a fass or air dog $till hoping $ome day

guapotaco
August 9th, 2010, 05:56 PM
thxs guys, gonna look at the 2 fass set ups and decide which one to use, just the pusher with the stock or the whole new unit(leaning towards that) if i could just plumb that right into where my stanadyne is would be way sweet as it is set up with nice stainless hoses etc... are the Fass setups a reverse flow? got alot to look into
what about Blue Chip? more money than any other set up...? sounds like he knows his stuff but can it be much different for that much more $?

guapotaco
August 10th, 2010, 08:36 AM
could the ddrp be put back in the stcok location and leave the stanadyne on the frame?, that would be my fastest fix i think, just ad the ddrp back into the stock location and away we go...? well after the new vp goes in
i have a fuel pressure guage and always monitor it, is this a possible set up? i dont know if you can combine pumps etc...?

guapotaco
August 10th, 2010, 06:02 PM
http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=RP-100-D24-34
what about adding this back into the stock location and keep the stanadyne for filter and a bit more presure? seems alot of guys are really liking these pumps on all the diesel forums, it seems that alot of folks are moving away from the Fass stuff for a few very good reasons,i wont get into that here but lots of guys are talking about them on the forums etc...

Loki
August 12th, 2010, 08:38 AM
it seems that alot of folks are moving away from the Fass stuff for a few very good reasons,i wont get into that here...

Please elaborate... For those of us with newly installed Fass stuff...

guapotaco
August 12th, 2010, 08:50 AM
it's a water separation issue and i guess they are addressing it, i wouldnt worry, i am going with a fass and a regular vp44

Trango
August 12th, 2010, 09:04 AM
Question : I just bought a 12v cummins that doesn't appear to have a lift pump, and the P-pump model code says that it doesn't require one. Is that relatively common?

jeepinaround
August 12th, 2010, 10:21 AM
I had an airdog on my 2003 and loved it. Had no problems at all.

guapotaco
August 12th, 2010, 11:19 AM
Question : I just bought a 12v cummins that doesn't appear to have a lift pump, and the P-pump model code says that it doesn't require one. Is that relatively common?

you dont have the same stuff as these rigs, yours is all mechanical, wish i had the 12v, i wouldnt be dealing with this right now

Trango
August 12th, 2010, 02:36 PM
Interesting - thanks for the knowledge.

guapotaco
August 12th, 2010, 05:27 PM
Interesting - thanks for the knowledge.

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/
go check it out, lots of good info on all generations out there, you got it easy

rocktoy
August 14th, 2010, 09:33 AM
you might check out:

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/

has some great info

Chris Halvorson
August 14th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Or the best Cummins site... www.dieselram.com

Loki
August 14th, 2010, 09:08 PM
Or the best Cummins site... www.dieselram.com

:thumbsup:

guapotaco
August 18th, 2010, 05:17 PM
thxs for all the info guys, i have been talking to alot of folks about how my rig is set up and know one really knows for sure what i have going on, i have this stanadyne pump on frame and then a small lift pump right in front of the stock filter housing, the pump says it is a Walberg 16psi, know one seems to know what this is and i have talked to Rob, Chip at blue chip and a few dodge tech guys i know, i think i have an ok lift pump set up, but i want to make sure this walberg is pumping, how to test and see if a pump is working at the correct psi? i know the stanadyne is fine as i just replaced it last fall and can hear it running like it always does, not so sure on this other little pump, i am trying to get some pics loaded and i am having a tough time with photobucket

guapotaco
August 18th, 2010, 07:12 PM
screwed up, it's a westberg pump out of sonoma cali, anyone heard of that?

Chris Halvorson
August 18th, 2010, 08:15 PM
thxs for all the info guys, i have been talking to alot of folks about how my rig is set up and know one really knows for sure what i have going on, i have this stanadyne pump on frame and then a small lift pump right in front of the stock filter housing, the pump says it is a Walberg 16psi, know one seems to know what this is and i have talked to Rob, Chip at blue chip and a few dodge tech guys i know, i think i have an ok lift pump set up, but i want to make sure this walberg is pumping, how to test and see if a pump is working at the correct psi? i know the stanadyne is fine as i just replaced it last fall and can hear it running like it always does, not so sure on this other little pump, i am trying to get some pics loaded and i am having a tough time with photobucket

Get your pressure before the IP, turn off your aftermarket LP to see what you are getting. I have seen some guys run 2 pumps, I just look at it like this...why? I like having one reliable LP in service. I can see having 2 pumps for a backup as long as you can bypass one of them.

guapotaco
August 19th, 2010, 09:19 AM
i am pretty sure after looking at my pic again that what i am seeing is the fuel pressure sending unit for the guage, i am new to this and am learning way too much about how everything works
the stanadyne is the only lp i have and Chip at blue chip said it is a good unit and that it has enough pressure but i am not completely sure on that
i think i am just going to bite the bullet and get the fass, but i really want chip's vp, not something from mwfi, he was really helpful and had a very good return policy if only the computer blows up, which he said is 95% of the failures out there, and he does do a few more things with the rebuild than others do, but its alot more money

Chris Halvorson
August 19th, 2010, 07:22 PM
The stanadyne pump is fine. i just know what works over the long haul. I am a member on a diesel site (dieselram), and there are some guys that will put on cheap, unreliable LP and trash there IP and then complain about it (and more than once).

You stated that you have the stanadyne on the frame and a LP one the back of the filter housing...so wouldn't that be two LP right? I would make sure of your fuel pressure(IE...gauge), and run it. No need to spend the money on a FASS if you don't have to. Now if the stanadyne is not working properly...drop the money on a FASS.

Blue chip has very good VP's and other products...can't go wrong there. With the return policy...and if it is honored...may be worth the extra cash. Some "other" places that have warranties like this don't honor them. I have seen the bolts come out of the "computer" and trash the VP...wasn't warrantied. the HR VP Pump was 3 months old.

guapotaco
August 24th, 2010, 05:13 PM
thxs Chris, i think i have determined that i only have the stanadyne as the luft pump, chip seems to think it is a good set up but my fp is low and i know it will go back up with a new vp, just how much is the question, sounds like i want to have 10lbs at least at all times and mine has been running below that for some time, so i think the fass vp combo is what i really need, and i am going to have to go with MWFI since no one can touch that price, i know the warranty probably wont be honored and i will pray i get lucky and not have to have an issue, i called them and grilled them about what they do to the pumps and they do most of what chip does, just not everything, and if the computer fries they wont do the exchange like chip does, it will be a new unit at that point, he says 95% of the failures are computers, and thats what mine did

guapotaco
August 31st, 2010, 05:12 PM
if my lp is putting out 10-12 at idle, 7-8 load, then would a new vp push that up and hold me around the 10lbs that everyone says to have these days?, i might be able to not get the fass and just the new vp if it will, what kind of pressure does a stock vp have usually...?

hightimes2
August 31st, 2010, 08:22 PM
the vp will not increase the pressure