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jeepinaround
September 16th, 2004, 06:40 AM
From the front page of the Metro section of the Gazette this morning http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/images/smilies/mad.gif



Roads will be closed in Hayman fire area


By BILL McKEOWN - THE GAZETTE

The U.S. Forest Service will close or obliterate 55 miles of roads and all of the unofficial roads inside the area burned by the Hayman fire in 2002 ? a move sure to anger some offroad enthusiasts.

The decision, to be announced today, will affect more than 50 dirt roads in Pike National Forest in Teller, Park, Jefferson and Douglas counties.

The most controversial part of the decision: About 11 miles of popular four-wheeldrive roads in scenic Wildcat Canyon that were closed after the fire will remain closed, said Sara Mayben, district ranger of the South Park Ranger District.

Besides closing or tearing out the 55 miles of marked roads in the burn area, the Forest Service will contour, reseed and block off all the informal roads that have been etched into the forest bed during the years. Those are estimated to span 35 to 70 miles.

Some of the formal roads that received regular maintenance in the past will be converted to motorized or nonmotorized trails.

The agency?s solution is a compromise: Fourwheel-drive clubs had urged the Forest Service to reopen the network of roads in the canyon, while environmentalists wanted the agency to make the canyon a roadless area.

Jerry Panek criticized the agency?s decision to make the canyon off-limits to motorized vehicles.

Panek, owner of Predator 4 Wheel Drive in Colorado Springs, a repair and equipment business, said his business has organized thousands of hours of volunteer time and raised thousands of dollars in donations and grants during 15 years for work to minimize damage and reduce erosion and sediment in the canyon.

He said the Forest Service decision will force hundreds of off-roaders onto already crowded four-wheel roads elsewhere in the region.

?There is no place else with that quality of fourwheeling plus that quality of recreation,? he said. ?If not there, where? No other place that close to the Front Range has that kind of diverse activities.?

Mayben said the Forest Service is willing to let other public road agencies, such as Teller or Park counties, where the canyon is located, take over roads if they propose appropriate improvement and maintenance plans.

Panek said he and other four-wheel enthusiasts will lobby Teller County to do just that.

The Hayman Fire burned about 138,000 acres in the four counties, with half of that acreage burned moderately or severely. In the two years since, heavy rains and flash floods have caused extensive road damage and sent ash and silt into Denver?s water system.

Mayben said the road closures, many in low-lying areas near streams and gullies, are designed to reduce erosion, slow the flow of sediment into the South Platte River, lower the danger of flash flooding to motorists and reduce costs for the Forest Service.

Mayben said three other miles of roads in the forest will be closed in the winter to protect big game and habitat.

There are 260 miles of road in the Hayman burn area, but the Forest Service considered its options on only 130 miles. Of those, 69.5 miles will remain open with no change in use, according to the Forest Service record of decision.

Mayben said there is no schedule for the road closures, but some could start shortly after a required 45-day appeal process.

Other projects, she said, could take years to accomplish.

The agency has estimated it will cost $1.7 million to implement the road plan, with annual maintenance at $141,000.

DECISIONS

After an environmental assessment and a public comment process, the U.S. Forest Service has decided the following concerning 130 miles of roads within the Hayman burn area in the Pike National Forest:

- Keep 69.5 miles of classified, or formal, roads open year-round and maintain them as they are.

- Decommission 49 miles of classified roads or convert them to another use, such as a motorized or nonmotorized trail.

- Close six miles of classified roads to motorized vehicles yearround.

- Decommission all unclassified, or informal, roads, encompassing 35 to 70 miles.

- Increase road maintenance on 2? miles of road.

- Impose seasonal travel restrictions on 3 miles of classified roads.

- About 79 percent of the 260 classified road miles in the Hayman burn area would remain open to public use.

TO LEARN MORE

- The U.S. Forest Service?s decision on road closures within the Hayman fire area can be viewed at www. fs.fed.us/r2/psicc/hayres, then click on the ?Decision Notice? in the top left of the menu. To view which roads will be closed, closed seasonally or kept open, readers must open all five decision notices for the Pikes Peak, South Platte and South Park ranger districts.

- Interested persons or groups who submitted comments on the draft road plan are eligible to appeal the final decision. Each decision notice contains information on how to do that.

- Copies of the decision also can be obtained at the Pikes Peak Ranger District, 601 S. Weber St.
http://maya.coloradosprings.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/default/empty.gif (http://maya.coloradosprings.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.gazette.com/popupNews.php/956985559/Right2/default/empty.gif/63633338336139613431326662396530)

Big Dave
September 16th, 2004, 08:18 AM
So they're closing off the informal roads (GOOD) and closing some formal ones, but where does it specifically say Hackett and Longwater will remain closed?

jeepinaround
September 16th, 2004, 09:15 AM
The roads in Wildcat canyon are Hacket and Longwater.

MountainJeep
September 16th, 2004, 09:18 AM
hold on hold on

"The features of this decision are as follows:

The decision will allow for the opening of the following roads, if and only if a written easement, agreement or special use permit is entered into with a public road management agency with respect to each road, and such easement, agreement or permit contains an agreed maintenance standard for each road:

Forest Service Road 205, also known as Metberry Road

Forest Service Road 221, also known as Longwater Road

Upper (northern) section of FSR 540 , also known as Corral Creek Road"

Now what needs to happen is

1) we need to define "a public road management agency"

2) we then need to see if there is any such agency that is willing to agree to maintain these roads and enter into an agreement with the Forest Service. If Teller County really thinks that they are going to suffer an economic impact due to the loss of these roads that may be our best course of action.

3) Partner with the agency. Enter into our own agreements to maintyain the roads through adopt a trail.

4) anyone know any politicians in this are who we can partner with?

this is going to be tough, but it can be achieved.

Important roads that are classified as A (need an easement and agreement) include:

Hackertt

Longwater

Metberry

Corall creek

Crossover

I am fawkin pissed that they modified alternative C in this manner!!!!!

JP7
September 16th, 2004, 09:29 AM
It is stated in the Decision of Notice Documents located here. It is a lot to wade through but all 5 FONSI documents state what roads are to be closed. Lets hope Teller County is successful in getting RS2477 status. http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/psicc/hayres/travel/roadsEA/DN/index.htm

Murfman
September 16th, 2004, 04:25 PM
something similar was on the local tv news here in the springs on 9-15. I didn't catch all of the segment though. did anyone?

Murfman
September 16th, 2004, 10:44 PM
Just got home from work and my wife told me it is official. it was just on the local news that they have closed hackett and longwater and metberry gulches permanently. I guess Teller county said that they could not afford to maintain the trails and would not request and exception to the FS's ruling about closing them. This sux big time!!!!!!!

twistedcherokee
September 16th, 2004, 11:30 PM
I think they should ban forset service employees for the forest. Then they won't burn down and close our roads.

Toby

Big Dave
September 17th, 2004, 12:31 AM
Story coming up on FoxNews in a few minutes about it . . . . . .

Big Dave
September 17th, 2004, 12:36 AM
They made it sound like the trails have been open ever since the fire and we've been making it worse since the fire.

jeepinaround
September 17th, 2004, 06:55 AM
Well I found this on Teller Counties website...http://www.co.teller.co.us/Transportation/AdoptedFINALresolutionRS4277.pdf
Here is a part of that .pdf...


BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Teller County Board of County Commissioners hereby asserts, the following rights-of-way and highways to be public highways and public rights-of-way under and pursuant to R.S. 2477 (43 U.S.C. 932) and 43 U.S.C. 1701:

1. A right-of-way extending for approximately 4.5 miles, also known as Forest Service Road 205 (aka Metberry Gulch Road), beginning at the intersection of County Road 51(Forest Service Road 360), heading Westerly and intersecting with the South Platte River, excepting those portions not within Teller County.

2. A right-of-way extending for approximately 4.6 miles, also known as Forest Service Road 221 (aka Longwater Gulch Road), beginning at the intersection of County Road 51(Forest Service Road 360), heading Westerly and intersecting with the South Platte River, excepting those portions not within Teller County.

3. A right-of-way extending for approximately 1.4 miles, also known as Forest Service Road 220a (aka Hackett Crossover Road), beginning at the intersection of Forest Service Road 220, heading Northerly and Westerly and intersecting with the South Platte River, excepting those portions not within Teller County.

4. A right-of-way extending for approximately 7.4 miles, also known as Forest Service Road 220 (aka Hackett Gulch Road), beginning at the intersection of County Road 51(Forest Service Road 360), heading Westerly and intersecting with the South Platte River then heading Southerly and intersecting with Forest Service Road 202, excepting those portions not within Teller County.

5. A right-of-way extending for approximately 2.10 miles, also known as Forest Service Road 202, 202.1 and 202.2, beginning at the intersection of County Road 51(Forest Service Road 360), heading Westerly and Northerly and intersecting with Forest Service Road 220.

6. A right-of-way extending for approximately 10.5 miles, that begins at Teller County Road 3 (aka Trail Creek Road), heading Westerly along Teller County Road 33 to the intersection with Forest Service Road 360a, heading Westerly along Forest Service Road 360a to the intersection with Teller County Road 51, then heading Northerly along Teller County Road 51 to the Teller/Douglas County Line. There is a lot of info in that .pdf it is 7 pages long of the same stuff...

And I know our club has talked to the comissioners to let them know that they are our adopted roads and that we have a lot of volunteer hours in there already and are willing to keep it up.

So I am hoping that whoever heard that Teller County was giving up was wrong and that this file is correct.

Now we need to work on Park County and Douglas County since there are exceptions for parts that aren't in Teller County!!

JP7
September 17th, 2004, 12:06 PM
I just finished reading Appendix B List of Commentors. Only 94 people sent in comments! Thanks for helping out.

ubolt
September 17th, 2004, 01:02 PM
Call your local rep and Wayne Allards office (Allard 719-634-6071) and voice your opinion to NOT close off the roads in the Hamen Burn Area. They threw that "management agency" b.s. in there but we all know that it will be shot down if we do muster one up!.

We had the same problem at the base of Mt Herman near Monument, they wanted to close down the area to small game hunting because of "All the complaints". Well it turned out to be a single letter of complaint. Thier concerns of errosion may be trumped up, hard to tell. I have to admit we've (RockReapers) had good luck working one on one with a BLM guy on Carnage BV but as an organization they bow down to groups that would like to see us removed from the forest.

Call, it may not be too late.

SSII
September 18th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Okay, I'm a little slow. Please explain to me, how driving on a 4x4 trail after a forest fire is more of a problem then before a fire? I have lived, hunted and wheeled in Id and Mt. There is so much burnt timber and land up there you have to drive thru burnt areas. I have NEVER seen a burnt over area road as a problem. It can be a hazard to you as there are snags that can fall. So how does a road, in use effect BURNT Timber? How does it increases hillside runoff? IT is alot of B.S. they are feeding you.
What it sounds like to me they are making a burnt wilderness area. A Non Motorized area is Widerness basically. Damn near. It also sounds like if they are closing roads and destoying them. If they are not harvesting the standing dead timber, that WILL be BUG FOOD now and that will help the Beetles thrive. Then they will spead to good timber stands.

al24
September 19th, 2004, 02:15 PM
I just finished reading Appendix B List of Commentors. Only 94 people sent in comments! Thanks for helping out. Thats odd I sent in comments and yet I wasn't on the list.
Maybe it was only people that attended the meetings? Or send letters and not email?
Al

David
September 19th, 2004, 06:22 PM
Mine was a e-mail.and I made this list
now what are we going to do.

kevin719
September 20th, 2004, 09:32 PM
I sent a letter to the Teller County Commissioners. I asked them about the status of RS2477 and that our club and many other clubs had volunteered thousands of hours before the fire with the forest service, and would be willing to continue trail maintenance and whatever other work would be necesary to get these trails open. Here is one of the responses i got back.


A couple of months ago the Teller County Commissioners did assert RS2477 status on all roads that qualified in the northern part of the County. We are now in discussion with the Forest Service regarding the method or language needed to get this done and the level of maintenance that will be required. Curt Logsdon or Department of Transportation Director is our point person representing the County ( 687-8812). If you have any questions feel free to contact Curt or myself. I also enjoy off roading on our public lands with my family thoughout the year.

Jim Ignatius


I can't find an e-mail address for Curt so i guess i'll actually have to pick up a phone and call him tomorrow, and maybe get some more details.

Kevin

jeepinaround
September 21st, 2004, 06:54 AM
Kevin JP7 has Curt's e-mail address. I know he e-mailed him the day the anouncement was made. I will try and get it for you and anyone else that would like to e-mail him. Will you try to make the board meeting tonight?? JP7 told me that Curt is also into 4 wheeling and is pushing for this!!!

JP7
September 21st, 2004, 08:14 AM
Curt's E-Mail is on the Teller County web site. Here is a link http://www.co.teller.co.us/Transportation/transportation_main.htm

jeepinaround
September 21st, 2004, 08:24 AM
I sent an e-mail to Curt letting him know that our club is willing to try and get grants and to maintain the roads as we have been doing for years.

kevin719
September 21st, 2004, 07:47 PM
I was going to go to the meeting but i got stuck in jail in canon city till 6. I just sent Curt an e-mail, no phones alowed in jail so i couldn't call him. Thanks for the info jp7, i went to that page but somehow missed the big e-mail link on the page.

Kevin

jeepinaround
September 21st, 2004, 09:12 PM
Some good news possibly? This is the response I received from Curt Logsdon of Teller County...


Shane,

The county continues to strongly object and dispute the forest services ability to close down RS 2477 rights-of-way. (in this case roads) However, the county does intend to develop easement agreements for some or all of the RS 2477 roads. Should the county and forest service not come into agreement on these easements, the county would further pursue the RS 2477 route. The county's ultimate intention is that those roads are re-opened.

The county cannot take on the maintenance of these roads so that's where help from other organizations can help. The county does hope to obtain maintenance agreements from organizations as you have referred to. (Colorado Four-Wheelers Assoc., COHVCO or possibly with other organizations or
individuals) Quite possibly your idea of "Friends of Wildcat Canyon" could be one of the ways to assure a certain level of maintenance. With the help from people like yourself we should be able to keep these roads open.

At some time in the future I intend to start contacting Organizations and individuals to discuss maintenance of these roads.

Thank you for your interest in this matter!

Curt Logsdon
Teller County Transportation Director

MountainJeep
September 22nd, 2004, 09:56 AM
Keep me in the loop, I am willing to help in trail maintenance

Bill

Murfman
October 13th, 2004, 11:24 AM
I have notified the blue ribbon coalition about these closings. I hope to hear back from them soon. I will keep y'all posted on what they say.

Murfman
October 26th, 2004, 10:35 AM
here is what the Land Use Director from BlueRibbon Coalition told me in his email.

"The Hayman Roads EA has been a hot topic at BRC since just after the fire. I'm surprised you didn't know. BlueRibbon sent 3 Action Alerts, featured Hayman in one of our Colorado Land Use Updates (via email) and printed info about it in the BRC Magazine twice. Despite our efforts, and the efforts of the Colorado four wheel drive community, only a few OHV enthusiasts who love these roads took the time to send the FS comments. Fewer took the initiative to contact their legislators.

Needless to say, our adversaries got involved and made their voices heard. In this case, our loss wasn't because the anti-access people had the foundation funded lawyers or multi-million dollar budgets. It was our own apathy that locked the gates.

Does that mean BRC has given up? HECK NO!
Several OHV clubs and organizations are appealing the closures. I don't know if we'll be successful, but we're going to try our best.

Get on our ACTION ALERT list for regular updates and info. Also, check the "Land Use Outlook" feature in BRC's magazine for more info and ways you can help.
Brian Hawthorne
Public Lands Director,
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 ext 102"

it really is a shame we didn't do more to save our own trails! (this is from me, not him)

Alpine Spirit
October 26th, 2004, 11:36 AM
Damn I really want to run those trails.

ScienceguyXJ
November 2nd, 2004, 01:11 AM
Boy I really hat that woman terry barton, ruined summer 2002 and now possibly many more.