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View Full Version : Serbu Super Shorty vs. S&W 500



_CJ
August 27th, 2009, 11:02 PM
Which would you prefer, and why? A 12G Serbu Super Shorty or a Smith and Wesson 500? Neither is very practical, they cost about the same, and projectile weight/velocity is virtually identical.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2106/1510362680_30c10f6612.jpg

http://practical-defense.com/products/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_1_1.JPG

Loki
August 27th, 2009, 11:05 PM
Well which one I'd prefer would be determined by the purpose of it. :shrug:

_CJ
August 27th, 2009, 11:11 PM
Well which one I'd prefer would be determined by the purpose of it. :shrug:

Well, they're kind of similar. You're not going to be carrying the 500 concealed and you're not going to be shooting clay with the Serbu......

For me it would be personal defense, hiking, camping, etc.

Your use and reasoning would be up to you.

Loki
August 27th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Well, maybe the 500 for hunting, and the Shorty for a vehicle self defense gun.

Other than that I'd probably pass on both there is other weapons out there that are a little better suited for those purposes.

Jeffro600
August 27th, 2009, 11:38 PM
S&W 500...MUCH more usable. Ive got one and have put down a deer and 2 hogs with it...and its a decent target shooter too with de-tuned reloads.

ZappBranigan
August 28th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Just the hassle of having to get the AOW tax stamp for the Serbu would rule it out for me. IIRC it's only a $5 stamp but it's all the paperwork that's a PITA.

Having said that, I wouldn't buy an impractical revolver that costs me $5 every time I pull the trigger, either, no matter how cool it is.

For the price of either (I'm guessing upwards of $1000) you can get a pretty nice M4 or AR, or a couple of more practical handguns, or a .45 with all the competition bells and whistles and a buttload of ammo.

_CJ
August 28th, 2009, 10:09 AM
Cost and availability of ammo is a big one. You can buy 12G loads all day long in various configurations, and slugs are only $.66 per shot.

For target shooting, the 500 is obviously going to be more accurate, but recoil is going to be too intense for any extended range sessions.

DADA_JEEP
August 28th, 2009, 02:39 PM
i'd spend the money elsewhere. like a mossburgh 500 and another 45 and a lever action 30-30.

you can get all three for the price of either of those.

_CJ
August 28th, 2009, 06:03 PM
i'd spend the money elsewhere. like a mossburgh 500 and another 45 and a lever action 30-30.

you can get all three for the price of either of those.

Well, you can have a Shorty made out of a Mossberg 500 :D

They run about $700. I wonder how that compares to buying a standard shotgun, having it cut down by a gunsmith and paying the ~$200 for the government stamp?

None of the options you listed really compare to either of these weapons though. Shotgun and rifle are too big to transport in a backpack/suitcase and a .45 doesn't have the same impact.

DADA_JEEP
August 28th, 2009, 10:36 PM
if you are requiring it fit in a backpack, then i'd say the s&w 500 ;)

noahfecks
August 29th, 2009, 10:15 AM
What the hell do you expect to encounter that you need more knock down power than a 45?

_CJ
August 29th, 2009, 11:16 AM
What the hell do you expect to encounter that you need more knock down power than a 45?

Either of these.....

http://www.strangezoo.com/images/content/145208.jpg


http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/film/gallery/2008/nov/03/horror/shaun630-2321.jpg

Jeffro600
August 29th, 2009, 12:57 PM
What the hell do you expect to encounter that you need more knock down power than a 45?

Knock down power?? I love that term.... :lmao:

In the grand scheme of things, the 45 ACP, in terms of energy it can deliver, is a weakling compared to the better majority of handgun and rifle offerings these days. With that logic, we have no need for most centerfire rifle cartridges, or any of the more potent pistol rounds.

noahfecks
August 29th, 2009, 06:10 PM
Yeah yeah yeah. If you cant nutralize a target with a 45 you have bad aim. :flipoff2:

Zombies go down easy, its their overwhelming numbers. Niether of these weapons would be good for zombie defense, too few rounds. :flipoff2:

Grizzlys:shrug: SOL Just dont hit em in the face:flipoff2:

970TJ
August 30th, 2009, 09:50 AM
I would go with the 500. I have the Performance Center model and it is a pleasure to shoot. The pistol is so heavy with the scope, it barley has any more recoil than a .44 mag. I also killed a pretty good sized bull elk with it at about 80 yards with a 500 grain soft point.

ZappBranigan
August 31st, 2009, 09:18 AM
They run about $700. I wonder how that compares to buying a standard shotgun, having it cut down by a gunsmith and paying the ~$200 for the government stamp?

When I was in the Army a gunsmith friend of mine was planning on getting a short barrelled shotgun, I seem to recall that he said a short-barrelled shotgun is not treated like a machine gun or destructive device, it is an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and the tax stamp is $5. However, the Class III background check requirements are still the same.

Don't know for sure. If I had the time I'd read through the 18 USC section that deals with firearms, I believe machine guns and destructive devices are Title II firearms and AOWs are not.

Grant H.
August 31st, 2009, 01:24 PM
I am pretty sure that Zapp is correct.

A SBS is an AOW (at least last time I was looking) which is a different tax stamp.

newracer
August 31st, 2009, 01:43 PM
It is the same as an SBR. Not the same as a machine gun or suppressor.

970TJ
August 31st, 2009, 03:49 PM
It is the same as an SBR. Not the same as a machine gun or suppressor.

you are correct sir

_CJ
August 31st, 2009, 06:46 PM
I'm pretty sure a SBS is a whole different deal than an AOW stamp. The Serbu is an AOW which is only $5 (plus a bunch of paperwork) because it's made from a pistol grip shotgun, but to shorten a gun that was manufactured with a full stock you have to pay the $200 and jump through even more hoops.

The following are instructions on how to legally shorten a shotgun copied from Shotgunworld.


First and foremost, you must ensure that SBS's are lawful in your state of residence. After that, and assuming SBS's are lawful in your state, you must:

- Complete and sign 2 copies of ATF Form 5320.1 (Form 1 - Application to Make and Register a Firearm)
- Attach 1 passport-style photos to each Form 1 (2 photos total)
- Obtain the original signature (certification) of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) in your area on each Form 1. The CLEO may be the Chief of Police of your town, the Sheriff of your county or a District Attorney, among others. Depending on where you live and who you know this may be easy to obtain, or it may be virtually impossible.
- Complete and sign 1 copy of ATF Form 5330.20 "Certificate of Compliance"
- Include 2 sets of your fingerprints on ATF FD-258 fingerprint cards.
- Send all forms (with attached photos) and fingerprint cards, along with a $200 check (or money order) for payment of the Making Tax, to the address on the form. I recommend Registered Mail for this.
- Wait
- Wait
- Wait some more (Actually it's not forever ... it just feels that way when it's your first time)
- In approximately 30-180 days, ATF will return 1 original approved Form to you. ***update** ATF seems to be doing better on time now, most I have heard about have been less than 30 days now.

After ATF returns the approved form you may lawfully assemble or "make" your SBS. Please note that you cannot lawfully make the SBS until after ATF has approved your application, neither should you possess the parts to complete the SBS until you have received the approved form. AS soon as you get the form back, make several GOOD copies of it, and put the original one up in a safe place like a fire safe, lock box or even better, a safe deposit box. The ATF WILL NOT replace it if you lose it, they will send you a crappy photo copy. REMEMBER, This form keeps your butt out of jail.

Once you get the forms back you will need a short barrel. You can buy one or cut one down yourself. I have done both. If you want to buy one, you can sometimes find them on e-bay believe it or not, or other firearm sites. They will run you about $100 to $200 depending on what you are looking for. You can also get one from most "Class 3" dealers. The easiest thing to do is just cut it off yourself or take your barrel AND a COPY of your approved ATF form to your gunsmith of choice. He should be able to cut it down, touch up the finish, drill and tap and install a sight

You will also need to mark the frame, receiver, or barrel with the following info by engraving or stamping. (This information
must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. and plainly visible, not hidden under the fore-end)
- your name
- City, state

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422 ... 79.102.htm

I do the barrel, that way you can return to a standard 18in barrel if you ever decide you don't want a SBS any longer without destroying the value of the shotgun by having your name on the receiver.

"But were do I get these forms?" you ask.

very simple grasshopper. you can down load all of them but the fingerprint cards. The Police dept can furnish the finger print cards or you can order them from the ATF here http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm

The form 1 and "Certificate of Compliance" can be down loaded from these sites.

http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/web/forms.htm

http://www.atf.gov/forms/5300instructions.htm#5320

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf

If you don't want to down load the forms, you can go to this ATF site and order as many of the forms you want. Same site as the Finger print cards. http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

ALWAYS keep a copy of the approved form with the gun. You can travel anywhere with in your state without notifying anyone, (the same has a normal firearm) If you want to take it to another state, you MUST FIRST, notify the ATF with a form 5320.20 Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily Export Certain National Firearms Act (NFA) Firearms. This is tax free, and you can do it by FAX.. you can download from the same website as the others or use this direct link.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f532020.pdf

Is it worth all of this just to have a shotgun with a short barrel? To me it is, but you will have to make that decision

- So now grass hopper,go forth and shoot your new toy!!

newracer
September 3rd, 2009, 04:29 PM
Here is some reading for you on shooting a pistol grip shotgun

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=922159

_CJ
September 3rd, 2009, 04:51 PM
Here is some reading for you on shooting a pistol grip shotgun

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=922159

I'm well aware of all the internet arguments against PGO shotguns.....and I agree with most of them in most cases.

BUT, in the case of the Serbu, how is it different than shooting the 500 aside from the revolver action vs. pump action. Projectile weight and velocity is the same. Barrel length is almost the same. Both have pistol grips.

newracer
September 3rd, 2009, 05:07 PM
:shrug: I have never shot either.

Mudbug63
September 3rd, 2009, 05:10 PM
Zombies go down easy, its their overwhelming numbers. Neither of these weapons would be good for zombie defense, too few rounds. :flipoff2:


Yep, Zombies require belt fed weapons....Preferably a Mini-Gun :hail:

Scott@Rockstomper
September 3rd, 2009, 05:21 PM
AOW's do not have a stock, and are $200 to make (tax stamp) or $5 to transfer.
An SBS cannot "become" an AOW, but an AOW could "become" an SBS by the addition of a stock, which would require a new "making" stamp ($200) and it can never be put back to AOW.
SBS/SBR/silencer are $200 to make and $200 to transfer.
Machine guns are $200 to transfer.

Any of the above can be made by an FFL07/SOT with no "making" tax, but transfer tax applies unless it's being transferred to one of a small list of tax free transferrees (other NFA dealer, police, military). New machine guns may not be made for general sale, only for qualified entities.

There is no legal way to "make" a pistol or AOW out of a formerly-equipped-with-a-stock gun--once it's got a stock, it's supposed to keep it.