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Mcstiff
June 3rd, 2009, 11:02 PM
Just spotted this on craigslist: http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1203810741.html

If you were at PPHC 2005 you prob saw and heard this thing and saw it kill all the WRXs and EVOs up the hill:D Class winner.

Google URA4 and there are a few vids from other hillclimbs and rallys. If I was without this post would be about the chassis I just bought :shrug:

Slap some RS4 fenders on it, install a built I-5 20VT, VR6T (google 034 time attack), or other and get to the track!

I have no relation to the seller or interest in the sale other then wanting it for myself and hoping it finds a good home :beer:

scottycards
June 4th, 2009, 08:28 AM
Awesome.

Pikes Peak unlimited class is a lifetime dream for me.

Someday. Oh yes, someday.......

Mcstiff
June 4th, 2009, 09:07 AM
Found some Pics from 05 http://www.ppihc.com/gallery.aspx?keywords=Moody&photomode=5
http://www.ppihc.com/big/ppihgb4108.jpg
http://www.ppihc.com/big/ppihgb4109.jpg
http://www.ppihc.com/big/ppihgb4111.jpg
http://www.ppihc.com/big/ppihgb4111.jpg

I was talking to one of the builders and I guess it has been for sale for a while. I guess I can see that since you would need 10-20k to rebuild it.

Just found out that it has a clean CO title :D I think my wife would kill me if I got a loan on a rolling chassis "But honey it is only $50/month for 48 months.". :D

Mack
June 4th, 2009, 10:52 AM
You could buy a running, driving A4 for marginally more then that. I don't see the appeal.

Mcstiff
June 4th, 2009, 10:55 AM
You could buy a running, driving A4 for marginally more then that. I don't see the appeal.

FIA certified cage, brakes :shrug: If you wanted to build a VR6 or I5 turbo race car you would throw out pretty much everything from a stock A4. How much does a FIA cage cost to build? >$2k?

Steve
June 4th, 2009, 11:04 AM
FIA certified cage...

How do they "certify" a cage? Or do they do like most sanctionong bodies and put out specifications, and inspect it in the car, but not actually "certify" anything about its actual construction?

Mcstiff
June 4th, 2009, 11:15 AM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2914514/Rollcage-FIA-Appendix-J-Art-253-0809


8.1 General :
The fitting of a safety cage is compulsory. It may be either : a) Fabricated in compliance with the requirements of the following articles ; b) Homologated or Certified by an ASN according to the homologation regulations for safety cages ; A homologation document or certificate, approved by the ASN and signed by qualified technicians representing the manufacturer, must be presented to the event's scrutineers. Any new cage which is homologated by an ASN and is on sale, as from 01.01.2003, must be identified by means of an identification plate affixed to it by the manufacturer; this identification plate must be neither copied nor moved (i.e. embedded, engraved or self-destroying sticker). The identification plate must bear the name of the manufacturer, the homologation or certification number of the ASN homologation form or certificate and the individual series number of the manufacturer. A certificate bearing the same numbers must be carried on board and be presented to the event's scrutineers. c) Homologated by the FIA according to the homologation regulations for safety cages. It must be the subject of an extension (VO) to the homologation form of the vehicle homologated by the FIA. The manufacturer's identification and a series number must be clearly visible on all cages homologated and sold after 01.01.1997. The homologation form of the cage must specify how and where this information is indicated, and the purchasers must receive a numbered certificate corresponding to this.

The question is what has changed in the past 4 years.

Steve
June 4th, 2009, 11:20 AM
They're pretty serious about it.

I had to look up 'homologate.' :D

Mack
June 4th, 2009, 11:24 AM
You yourself just said it would take 10-20k just to get the chassis back on the road. Why wouldn't you at least buy something running/driving for marginally more? Only bonus that has, is a cage and brake upgrade. FIC spec cage can built for <2k. And why would you want to go to an turbo I-5 or VR6 setup? The stock 1.8/w/turbo can push more power then you'd ever need.

That rolling chassis is sweet if you have a chub for starting from something that's been in a race before, but there's a reason they stripped it out and moved on: it's beat to hell, and it's worth starting fresh on an unmolested model.

Mcstiff
June 4th, 2009, 12:12 PM
I-5's Suck (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3958747238569989183&ei=Ug0oSou9I4i0-QHatLWmCQ&q=034+Time+attack&hl=en)
VR6's are old and lame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkVKEbuHr_Q)

The 1.8T is great but If your gonna be a dog why be a Chihuahua? :flipoff2: You can build a 500CHP 1.8T's around but the torque curve will not be so flat.

Yes, you could start with a stock A4 and build the same thing for 10-20k. IMO, it would be easier start with a stripped car and build an engine then to start with a stock car, strip it, build a certified rollcage and an engine. Of course I am omitting other work that would need to be done either way.

Never the less, if I ever buy a race prepped Audi I would really want something older then this A4 :D

Mcstiff
June 4th, 2009, 12:44 PM
1.8T GT3052:
http://www.tylaska.net/pics/490.jpg

I5 Turbo GT3071R:
http://www.034motorsport.com/images/file/shayne_compare.jpg

VR6T GT3582R:
http://www.034motorsport.com/gallery/d/8346-2/A4VR6T_477whp.jpg

Any turbo engine will have a slope until boost max is reached. The RPM scales are different but I would say that the > 4 cyl engines spool up quicker.
Because I was vague on I-5 I would builds a new I-5 like what they are using in the TT-RS.

Mack
June 4th, 2009, 01:29 PM
:rolleyes: For every video you post of someone idiotic enough to throw 3x the money to hot rod a Audi, I can post someone who threw 1/2 as much to go twice as fast. You didn't even post one of either rallying, either.

Yeah, a hopped up 1.8T is going to have a higher torque curve/more turbo lag then an engine with more pistons and bigger displacement. It has to force more air to compensate for the smaller displacement. And? This isn't news.

The point is, If you're building a rally/race car on the cheap, you're going to want something already running/driving. A 1.8T will do you just fine. If you're wanting to build a high dollar rally/race car, you're not going to start with that particular car you posted. Plain and simple. You'd have the money to do it right, in something that hasn't already been completely thrashed.

Mcstiff
June 4th, 2009, 02:54 PM
For every video you post of someone idiotic enough to throw 3x the money to hot rod a Audi, I can post someone who threw 1/2 as much to go twice as fast. You didn't even post one of either rallying, either.

Yeah, a hopped up 1.8T is going to have a higher torque curve/more turbo lag then an engine with more pistons and bigger displacement. It has to force more air to compensate for the smaller displacement. And? This isn't news.

The point is, If you're building a rally/race car on the cheap, you're going to want something already running/driving. A 1.8T will do you just fine. If you're wanting to build a high dollar rally/race car, you're not going to start with that particular car you posted. Plain and simple. You'd have the money to do it right, in something that hasn't already been completely thrashed.

Thanks :beer: I have seen my evil ways and now will only love BMW or Subaru :rolleyes:

Mack
June 4th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Thanks :beer: I have seen my evil ways and now will only love BMW or Subaru :rolleyes:

Glad the point was completely lost on you :rolleyes:

Let me rephrase this, something closer to home.

Why would someone want to buy a CJ tub and frame for $500, when they could buy a running CJ for $1500. They wouldn't.

Hence, why would you want a 13 year old rolling shell, that's seen a very hard life already, when you could buy something already running and driving, and with 2k, outfit it the way that car is? You couldn't even buy the parts to get the roller on the road for 2k.

CGuava
June 4th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Why would someone want to buy a CJ tub and frame for $500, when they could buy a running CJ for $1500. They wouldn't

Damn. Getting personal. I do think 2k for that chassis is pretty rediculous though. For 3k you can find a running Audi to start with. At least you can drive it to pick up parts for the car.

Mcstiff
June 4th, 2009, 09:14 PM
Somebody call up a shop and ask how much to build a cage for PPHC. I bet it is ~$1800 minimum.
Its not like I suggested that somebody looking for an A4 to DD buy this. The title even specifically says "chassis".

AFA the 6; why would somebody waste $1000 to buy a running one to strip it and only use the body? Ever try to sell, f give away, old stock CJ parts? I recycled everything but the body from the 6 because I could not find anyone to take the parts.

:flipoff2:

scottycards
June 5th, 2009, 06:08 AM
Depends on what you want/need. Some people like to build up from different levels. In a perfect, and financially unrestricted world, I'd build from frame up.

In my real world, I'd buy a turnkey racer, and make changes as I needed them.

Funny thing though, I've bought a couple of cars that I thought were pretty much done, and ended up modding them, too.

It can always be faster, handle better, be more bullet proof.........always.

Having been through the small displacement motor thing (and putting together a pretty decent one), I'll never go back. Cubes and 8 cylinders (minimum- 10 is even better) is definitely where it's at for me.

For Pike's, nothing short of a twin turbo SBC would suffice in that car. 600 horse, would never need to see over 6K rpm. Rear mounted turbos, back at the rear of the car. Move all that heat out back. It'd be insane.

Mcstiff
June 5th, 2009, 07:43 AM
It can always be faster, handle better, be more bullet proof.........always.

QFT!


For Pike's, nothing short of a twin turbo SBC would suffice in that car. 600 horse, would never need to see over 6K rpm. Rear mounted turbos, back at the rear of the car. Move all that heat out back. It'd be insane.

It did pretty well with 5 ;) You could put a TT'd Audi V8 in but there are adaptors for SBC to Audi :D

Norco
June 7th, 2009, 11:11 PM
For Pike's, nothing short of a twin turbo SBC would suffice in that car. 600 horse, would never need to see over 6K rpm. Rear mounted turbos, back at the rear of the car. Move all that heat out back. It'd be insane.

Eh? You don't need turbos to get an SBC to 600HP, dood. Over 1000 with 'em.

Jake_Blues
June 8th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Eh? You don't need turbos to get an SBC to 600HP, dood. Over 1000 with 'em.

You might at 14,000 feet ASL :)

-E

scottycards
June 8th, 2009, 04:17 PM
Eh? You don't need turbos to get an SBC to 600HP, dood. Over 1000 with 'em.

I'm with ya. :drool::drool: Best I've ever experienced was 428 small block making about 850. It screamed.

I think FI is the way to go for altitude like Pike's tho- like Jake says.

Mcstiff
June 8th, 2009, 04:21 PM
Yeah, it would be smart to build for efficiency on the top half. Larger turbo & IC. If in unlimited it might be cool to have a top half tune (if EFI and your barometric compensation was not enough).

Norco
June 8th, 2009, 11:19 PM
Absolutely. Missed the boat on that one. I wonder what 600 at 14K would be at sea level. Anyone?

Mcstiff
June 9th, 2009, 08:33 AM
Well, assuming that you don't blow your engine. The difference may be small unless you allow >boost. PSI will stay the same, your turbo will not have to work as hard, your AFR will change (more 02 so you will need more fuel) until engine management corrects it.

There would be gain but not as much as with an N/A engine.

Jake_Blues
June 9th, 2009, 08:41 AM
Absolutely. Missed the boat on that one. I wonder what 600 at 14K would be at sea level. Anyone?

Rough guesstimate I've found is that you lose about 3-4% torque for each 1000 feet on a naturally aspirated engine. So at 14,000 feet, you're down about 40% torque. So yea, that 1000 horsepower engine might only be 600 or so at altitude.

Turbo cars don't suffer from this nearly as much, because you can just work your turbo harder by keeping the wastegate closed longer, getting your absolute manifold pressure back up. You'll create more heat in the intake charge from working the turbo harder, but higher altitudes mean cooler air to start with, too.

-E