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View Full Version : AEV JK suspension testing photo from today!



Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 12:19 PM
Went out to do some testing of the AEV 4.5" suspension.


Here is a teaser pic! That is all you get for now;) (I have 500 more pics;))

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2427/3548697421_515203a8de_b.jpg

trailbuilt
May 20th, 2009, 12:58 PM
:flipoff2::rant:

formatt
May 20th, 2009, 01:13 PM
Perfect.. Built for Park Meadows. :rolleyes:

ChiliPepper / Kenny
May 20th, 2009, 01:16 PM
Pic Not Working

trailbuilt
May 20th, 2009, 01:17 PM
Perfect.. Built for Park Meadows.SAYS THE GUY DRIVING AN IFS TOYOTA:flipoff2: :rolleyes:

WOW. For real.....So if you care about the way your jeep handles on the street its a mall crawler.... You have to be able to drive to the mountians....not everyone wants to drive a pos death trap....

scottycards
May 20th, 2009, 01:17 PM
You're early on the apex, dude. Wait a bit longer on turn-in and you'll have a much better line coming out.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 01:48 PM
You're early on the apex, dude. Wait a bit longer on turn-in and you'll have a much better line coming out.

Haha....you have no idea where the next cone is:flipoff2: Mark (guy driving) is right on line.


As for mall testing.......I have had the lift for less than 24 hours:flipoff2: Some of us had to work today instead of wheeling.

I may make it to Moab this weekend to check out their mall. :P

longboy
May 20th, 2009, 01:53 PM
Saw ya on 120th right after lunch, the JK is looking good man!

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 02:02 PM
Thanks.

Now we just need to get some trail testing done.

Jefe
May 20th, 2009, 02:19 PM
Test drives????

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 02:36 PM
Maybe!;)

vb
May 20th, 2009, 02:44 PM
met jim just a bit ago. he was takin some of the bullhide folks for go fast rides in the hemi, doin the handlin thing too

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Jim came down to install my suspension personally. We also got to play with the 6 speed Hemi JK on the course today;) I'm holding those pictures back at the moment. AEV may want them first.

Mack
May 20th, 2009, 03:11 PM
What lift did you have on there, before?

scottycards
May 20th, 2009, 03:20 PM
Laser zapper/jammer on the front plate?

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 03:24 PM
What lift did you have on there, before?

RockKrawler 3.5" mid arm with Fox Shox.


Laser zapper/jammer on the front plate?

E-470 transponder.

scottycards
May 20th, 2009, 03:28 PM
E-470 transponder.

Ah....hadn't seen one of those.

BTW, that's a great photo. :thumbsup:

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 03:43 PM
Thanks man.


Here is another quick one to give you an idea how hard we were pushing. Too bad you can't see the cone in this picture. He is running a slalom. (only 498 more of them to go:flipoff2:)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3549416134_597f381468_b.jpg

scottycards
May 20th, 2009, 03:45 PM
JK have active handling?

Like brakes applied via ECU to keep yaw under control?

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 03:48 PM
They do if you leave the fuse in.:D

After about 4-5 laps mine found it's way into the center console;)

scottycards
May 20th, 2009, 03:57 PM
They do if you leave the fuse in.:D

After about 4-5 laps mine found it's way into the center console;)

You can tell you're pushing it hard in the photos.

I had an image of you guys out there, wondering why the rear brakes are smoking, and the driver swearing he wasn't using brakes..........

You need a set of 22" rims, with street tires, and show up at HPR some day. Run some hot laps.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 04:03 PM
Our biggest problem today was overheating the power steering.

The Toyos also don't stick as well as I would like.

Think we got the pressure just right though;). Like the feather?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3334/3549428546_fc99d75ee5_b.jpg


And I did show up ready for some real driving today. Helmet, driving shoes etc;)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/3549410298_07c4a19dfd_b.jpg

ChiliPepper / Kenny
May 20th, 2009, 04:13 PM
Sweet. My work computer had blocked the pictures. must be hosted on some site the websense didn't like. So I used one of the techs laptops to look. Looks like it handles better then anything else offered for a JK at this time. What were your impressions Cole? The first pic looks like the body is nice and level. Second pic looks like its diving hard going into the slalom. What was Mr AEV's thoughts on his kit? Any pictures of the suspension allowed to be shown yet? I'm sure I could have asked all these questions last night in person but I couldn't make it down to RIO.

GPP33
May 20th, 2009, 08:25 PM
So tell us, what's so special? It looks like a JK kit that uses the stock mounting points, excuse me for not being overly excited. I can drive my TJ around cones as well, doesn't prove much other than you can burn through a set of really expensive tires that weren't made to drive around cones.

This thread is like a bikini bar, either show us the goods or quite teasing us.

kPs
May 20th, 2009, 08:42 PM
So tell us, what's so special? It looks like a JK kit that uses the stock mounting points, excuse me for not being overly excited. I can drive my TJ around cones as well, doesn't prove much other than you can burn through a set of really expensive tires that weren't made to drive around cones.

This thread is like a bikini bar, either show us the goods or quite teasing us.

Agreed.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 09:09 PM
I really have nothing to show just yet other than a fun picture.

Sounds like blingy parts and fancy mounting points are what makes a suspension to you. I prefer one that actually performs. On that note, I have only had this for less than 24 hours and am not ready to jump to full judgement just yet. Lots of testing to do still.

I can tell you that it will smoke your TJ on a canyon road!! And proably any other JK kit.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 09:09 PM
I really have nothing to show just yet other than a fun picture.

Sounds like blingy parts and fancy mounting points are what makes a suspension to you. I prefer one that actually performs. On that note, I have only had this for less than 24 hours and am not ready to jump to full judgement just yet. Lots of testing to do still.

I can tell you that it will smoke your TJ on a canyon road!! And proably any other JK kit.

Mark
May 20th, 2009, 09:10 PM
Fake beadlocks too? Awesome. :laughing:

Mack
May 20th, 2009, 09:18 PM
Fake beadlocks too? Awesome. :laughing:

Economy's bad, haven't you heard? :flipoff2:

formatt
May 20th, 2009, 09:28 PM
WOW. For real.....So if you care about the way your jeep handles on the street its a mall crawler.... You have to be able to drive to the mountians....not everyone wants to drive a pos death trap....

Easy Mary... I know girls that are harder to offend than you are. Settle down.

I've seen hundreds of random jeeps driving around Nebraska and Iowa with cheap Rancho and TrailMaster lifts that seem to handle parking lots just as well as the one you're getting all bent out of shape about. You'll have to excuse me if seeing a new JK driving around cones in some random lot, doesn't give me the same hard-on you get. With the photo's Cole has presented, nothing here makes this particular suspension look any better than something from RE or TNT... I know, I've used both and never seemed to have any trouble turning a corner or getting to a trail. Granted, I've never tested either suspension around cones in a parking lot but... with as many times as I've seen your rig in trip reports, maybe you know more about that than I do. Me and my IFS are fine with that... :)

The intention of my original post was to make the point that most people want to see how it performs offroad. If onroad manners were of more concern, you probably wouldn't be lifting it 4.5" and throwing 37's under it.

Hayes
May 20th, 2009, 09:32 PM
MasterDrive huh? What were you doing there? Are you a coach? Just taking a class?

Yite Jeep
May 20th, 2009, 09:38 PM
I cant talk sh&@ because there was an SCCA meet down at Pikes Peak Raceway about a month ago and if the jeep was done, I would have entered. They probably wouldnt have let me though. I think my tires would have hit every cone(full widths:rolleyes:). But thats cool that your testing it. Next better be some wheelin pics though.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 20th, 2009, 09:46 PM
Fake beadlocks too? Awesome. :laughing:


Um....yeah....your real smart:rolleyes:

Here is a pic of the "fake" bead:shrug:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3298/3259310308_c695409632_b.jpg




I've seen hundreds of random jeeps driving around Nebraska and Iowa with cheap Rancho and TrailMaster lifts that seem to handle parking lots just as well as the one you're getting all bent out of shape about. You'll have to excuse me if seeing a new JK driving around cones in some random lot, doesn't give me the same hard-on you get. With the photo's Cole has presented, nothing here makes this particular suspension look any better than something from RE or TNT... I know, I've used both and never seemed to have any trouble turning a corner or getting to a trail. Granted, I've never tested either suspension around cones in a parking lot but... with as many times as I've seen your rig in trip reports, maybe you know more about that than I do. Me and my IFS are fine with that... :)

The intention of my original post was to make the point that most people want to see how it performs offroad. If onroad manners were of more concern, you probably wouldn't be lifting it 4.5" and throwing 37's under it.

See here is where the problem comes in. You "THINK" all those suspensions handle fine. Driving around the block and not dying is no standard to judge a suspension by. I can gaurantee that they do not hadle as well.

We were SERIOUSLY cooking on that course. I have had 11 Jeeps totalling over 1 million miles of ownership and this thing will smoke any of them around a corner by a WIDE margin.

We were also not in a "parking lot" :shrug: See any spaces marked any where?


The part that really gets me is whre you think that if you have 37s you don't care about on road performance:shrug: Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? If I did not care about on road performance I would still be wheeling my first CJ7. I bought the JK to drive AND wheel.:shrug:

Wait a little bit and I will get wheeling tests and pictures too. I am barely at the 24 hours of owning the suspension point. How many others do you know that have arranged their first serious test and booked a facility in that time frame. Wheeling will follow soon.


MasterDrive huh? What were you doing there? Are you a coach? Just taking a class?


I coached there many many many many years ago and they still let me use the facility from time to time for stuff like this.

GPP33
May 20th, 2009, 10:52 PM
Sounds like blingy parts and fancy mounting points are what makes a suspension to you. I prefer one that actually performs. On that note, I have only had this for less than 24 hours and am not ready to jump to full judgement just yet. Lots of testing to do still.

I can tell you that it will smoke your TJ on a canyon road!! And proably any other JK kit.


Nope, you'll be hard pressed to find any bling on my rig. Just want to know why this is different than a Sky Jacker or Tuff Country (yea, I picked those two on purpose). If it uses stock mounting points then all that is left to change is spring rate, shocks and sway bars right? So what makes it so cool?

Oh, and fancy mounting points do turn me on if they are designed to and actually do work.

No one is digging your suspension, I'm sure it's great. But if you are going to boast about it at least tell us what's oh-so-good about it.

I’d love to race you up a canyon in my TJ, just need to find some tires I don’t care about……Not gonna waste my good off road tires just so you can prove a point.

Mcstiff
May 20th, 2009, 11:03 PM
If it uses stock mounting points then all that is left to change is spring rate, shocks and sway bars right? So what makes it so cool?

Oh is that all? Not much you can do with those variables. :shrug:



BTW, I had not really seen this till just now. It looked good this evening though. Hope to have one eventually.

Cresso
May 20th, 2009, 11:23 PM
Dang, what's with all the haters? Looks great to me. Thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:

IoN6
May 20th, 2009, 11:35 PM
I can tell you that it will smoke your TJ on a canyon road!! And proably any other JK kit.

Huh, maybe this should have been posted in the "canyon carver" forum...? I'll get in line for the road manners band wagon. Don't know that anyone bought their Jeep for road manners, unless that Jeep is a Compass.

MtnRunner
May 21st, 2009, 12:05 AM
What's in the latest AEV kit Cole? Do they use the stock control arms still?

bsaunder
May 21st, 2009, 07:12 AM
nice!

I dang near flipped my Bronco while trying to cook around a masterdrive course, sure was fun though and worked great as a visual for the students. Mark tried to improve it, but the 13turns lock to lock of my manual steering at the time messed him up, Jim was too scared to take it through, but would ask me to for his students to see or when someone whined about manual steering :D

To those not in the know, that course is not a mall crawler course and merely adding a stiff suspension won't make you go around corners well. But hey - its the intardweb so we must pose and cut others down so we feel better about ourselves, even if actual information hasn't been shared. Cole was just sharing some pictures of some fun - not trying to get you to buy something.

trailbuilt
May 21st, 2009, 07:29 AM
This tread just hammers home the point that this industry is filled with a bunch of dumb redneck hillbillies.....(btw if that comment offends you, I am talking to you)

It blows my mind that you people see no value in testing a brand new lifted jeep on the street,where it spends 90% of it time.

There is a huge difference between a " lift kit" and a suspension kit. There are very few Suspension kits on the market...there are a ton of lift kits.I have owned alot of lift kits and Now I run OME suspension kits on both my jeeps.My xj drives WAY better than stock and is fun to drive up in the mountains on pavement and dirt.I feel sorry for you and your "junk" if you cant tell the difference between the two.

I give huge props to Cole and Jim from Aev for taking the time to do this...It looks like alot of fun.Although I would like to see some more pic:flipoff2:

And Formatt....

Not offended...Just amazed on the ignorance of this forum at times...

OrangeCrush
May 21st, 2009, 07:42 AM
A few people here like to regard this forum as pirate-lite so they can disparage a bit anytime someone does something to their rig.

The thing is not every "rig" is the same not every person here wheels in the same way
everyone filters the applicability of mods that other people make to their own experience and then if it doesn't fit with what they want for their own rig they try to criticize.


Dont sweat the haters Cole It is your jeep

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 08:05 AM
I guess you either get it or you don't.:shrug:


I have about 5 min to type this then I need to run to the office.

Here are a couple of quick notes from working with Jim over the last couple of days. They are just notes at this point.


-Roll Center was incorrectly done on the JK to start with. Most companies only correct the bolts for the increase in ride height. He calculated to correct roll center and adjusted the track bars to that height for increase stability. Many only addresss it rear and not front so then you get quirks in the handling. Needs to change for CG of vehicle.

-Front track bar correction, steering correction are offset. They need to not only be parallel but in the same plane and have an intersection point at the roll center and match the rear. (I have been looking under tons of rigs since I have learned this and have yet to see one that is correct). This is a contributing factor in "roll steer".

-Spring frequency. Short short short version. Must be calibrated for weight, time vs distance at given spreed etc. Basicly EVERY lift company has their fequencies wrong, backwards of just dangerous. (and most have no idea what it even means). Bottom line, the correct frequency will make it so you can drive your rig 3x faster on rough roads than any others.

-Jim keeps the stock arms for several reasons. 1. they have been through Chrylers 1 million mile durability testing. 2. Rubber isolation bushings that should last at least 100k, 3. On a TJ you basically needed 6" lift for 35s. JK only needs 2.5-3" and the stock arm are longer. So MUCH MUCH less need for them. (and they are real arms not the junk on the TJ).

-He also said the ONLY way to get the correct geometry with a long arm on a JK is to relocate the gas tank. Mounting them outside the frame basically eliminates the big gains of long arms.

-Their Bilstiens are build specifically for their springs. Can't get them any other way.

I have a lot more but am out of time and need to run now.

scottycards
May 21st, 2009, 08:08 AM
Damn.

Tough crowd. My Jeep drives like relative azz on the road. It's fun and all, I don't consider it dangerous, and I drive it to Moab and back no problem, but I'm one beat up sumbeoytch at the end of that drive.

This is obviously a high-end suspension that offers road manners in addition to trail capability.

I think it's killer, even if it's not something that's likely to ever make its way to my Jeep.

And the feathering on the tires is sweet. :D:D :thumbsup::thumbsup:

ChiliPepper / Kenny
May 21st, 2009, 08:24 AM
LOL! WOW! I'm absolutely baffled by some of the response in this thread. So do you guys remember when the TJ suspensions first started coming out and how bad the majority of them sucked? After having installed a long arm kit on a JK at our shop, from a company that I will leave unnamed, I can promise you that more testing like this, and serious attention to detail needs to be done. Bash Cole and this testing and kit all you want, you will all be appreciating this work down the road. (JK drivers that is)
Cole - Very interesting tech and info. I wish I could see the pictures on my work computer. Keep us posted!

CSP
May 21st, 2009, 08:36 AM
While I'm perfectly content with my antiquated CJ going down the highway on a trailer, this is pretty cool. If I had spent the coin on a JK rather than an eight passenger SUV recently, I'd be all over this information. :thumbsup:

scottycards
May 21st, 2009, 08:46 AM
It's really cool. Maintain better than stock drivability, while offering excellent off road performance.

I'm interested to hear the off road performance, for sure. Not just bombing down a washboarded road, but rocks and obstacles (which is where my interest lies).

On my other car, I've spent quite a bit of time working on the stock suspension to maintain ride quality (since I drive to and from races, ~800 miles each direction), but still be able to rip corners at triple digit speeds. I ended up with the softest OEM spring available, larger sways, Bilsteins, etc. And all stock mounting points, as well as stock suspension arms.

Interesting.

newracer
May 21st, 2009, 08:54 AM
Is this the standard or premium suspension kit?

GPP33
May 21st, 2009, 09:24 AM
Now we're getting some good details.



-Roll Center was incorrectly done on the JK to start with. Most companies only correct the bolts for the increase in ride height. He calculated to correct roll center and adjusted the track bars to that height for increase stability. Many only addresss it rear and not front so then you get quirks in the handling. Needs to change for CG of vehicle..

So they did move mounting points. See, this turns me on now. I assume the roll center was too low stock? Does he know why they did this? was it to induce understeer?



-Front track bar correction, steering correction are offset. They need to not only be parallel but in the same plane and have an intersection point at the roll center and match the rear. (I have been looking under tons of rigs since I have learned this and have yet to see one that is correct). This is a contributing factor in "roll steer".

So he was able to correct the roll center AND steering geometry in one shot? Did he change steering mounting points or just the track bar? The comment about an intersection point at the roll center is interesting, can you elaborate?



-Spring frequency. Short short short version. Must be calibrated for weight, time vs distance at given spreed etc. Basicly EVERY lift company has their fequencies wrong, backwards of just dangerous. (and most have no idea what it even means). Bottom line, the correct frequency will make it so you can drive your rig 3x faster on rough roads than any others.

I'm glad to see a company going into this much depth to get it right, not too surprised that it was AEV (have heard good things about OME as well but can't find much to back it up). Many, myself included, are forced to couple springs that we have no idea how they were designed (probably just to provide a certain lift +/- 1") with shocks that were not designed to work with the springs. Some times it works good, sometimes it doesn't. Rarely though would I imagine that it works great.



-Jim keeps the stock arms for several reasons. 1. they have been through Chrylers 1 million mile durability testing. 2. Rubber isolation bushings that should last at least 100k, 3. On a TJ you basically needed 6" lift for 35s. JK only needs 2.5-3" and the stock arm are longer. So MUCH MUCH less need for them. (and they are real arms not the junk on the TJ).

A TJ only needs about 4" for 35's but none the less you are correct. The length of the JK arms is pretty good. Most LA TJ kits are too long, probably in order to impress the buyer. For instance the RE front arms are too long, and the rear arms on the LJ are WAY too long.



-He also said the ONLY way to get the correct geometry with a long arm on a JK is to relocate the gas tank. Mounting them outside the frame basically eliminates the big gains of long arms.

This comment is interesting as well. Why would mounting them outside negate any benefit? You obviously are still stuck with the track bar so you can't triangulate it, what "benefit" was he referring to? My original comment with regards to moving mounting points was not directed at "long arms" but more getting the suspension tuned in. For instance, by lifting a rig and keeping the mounting points the same you effect the roll centers and antisquat. He obviously took the roll centers into account, did he mention the antisquat? Was it too low from the factory as well? Most cars are in my opinion but I've never driven a JK.




I have a lot more but am out of time and need to run now.

Well hurry up and get off work. I'm not working today so I'm gonna sit here and hit refresh every 2 minutes until you respond!

Did you get any g-force numbers going through the turns?

Conrad
May 21st, 2009, 09:55 AM
IMO....

The two arent mutual... I used to do SCCA racing and what not. And I daily drive a TJ on 37s and 4.5 inches of lift. And I drive it like I stole it.

Better street driving = shocks, swaybars, drive angles, lower center of gravity, tires...

If 2 kits both utilize the same mounting locations the only real difference is quality of materials and joints. Which any lift kit can provide a plethura of combinations.

OrangeCrush
May 21st, 2009, 10:11 AM
This is why I have a stiffer than stock swaybar on my heep that minor change improved drivability immensely

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 10:32 AM
Is this the standard or premium suspension kit?



Premium kit. Basically it comes with the steering geometry correction. (high steer).




So they did move mounting points. I assume the roll center was too low stock? Does he know why they did this? was it to induce understeer?

My understanding from the story he tells is that the head of the JK project has never been a Jeep engineer, but soley truck engineer. They designed the entire suspension on Mercedes "flight simulator" which told them to mount the axle end of the rear track bar too low. Creating too low of a roll center.

Most, if not all lift companies simply raise the Jeep 3" and correspondingly raise the track bar mount 3" The AEV mount is actually 8" higher than stock. Partly to correct to the ideal roll center and partly to correct for the lift height. FWIW the AEV kit is designed to also induce understeer first to keep it within the same safe specs as a stock vehicle.

Jim said a stock JK runs the 700ft slalom on the Chrysler proving grounds at about 58mph. Their 3.5" kit with 35" mud tires can do it at 60 mph without tire lift.




So he was able to correct the roll center AND steering geometry in one shot? Did he change steering mounting points or just the track bar? The comment about an intersection point at the roll center is interesting, can you elaborate?

Several components attribute to the change. The steering it flipped to the top side of the knuckle, track bar moved to new mount and steering stabilizer upgraded, moved. All this was changed to match the rear geometry.

The intersection point is in reference to the offset of the trackbar and steering arm. While parallel, they move in a different plane due to the offset. Which would cause roll steer. When they are off set due to road conditions.(flex, turns etc) the intersection of the two in their plane also needs to intersect the roll center, which in turn needs to match the rear (as I understood it).




I'm glad to see a company going into this much depth to get it right,.... Many, myself included, are forced to couple springs that we have no idea how they were designed (probably just to provide a certain lift +/- 1") with shocks that were not designed to work with the springs. .

Keep in mind that Jim was a suspension engineer for Jeep AND an enthusiast. So his perspective is TOTALLY different.

The spring frequency discussion is facinating to me. Basically the front and rear springs must recover from the same bump at the same time. Resetting the car to level without extra oscillation. (and should do it without shocks). This means several things. First that the Jeep is fully recovered from bump A, before it hits bump B. Secondly, it means that you don't have one end of the car over compensating or undercompensating for a bump in the road. I'm sure we have all felt a the front axle go over a bump and then the rear take a bit of a wild bounce on the same bump. It is recovering too fast. They need to be timed just right. So you set that timing for a middle of the road, every day driving speed like 40 mph. This accomplishes two things. One, it is most comfortable and controllable at the speed you drive most and second it has less variation up and down in the speed range.





This comment is interesting as well. Why would mounting them outside negate any benefit?

I was a little unclear on this point. I was simply tossing out what he said. I think most if it had to do with the way it trailed over bumps and can articulate without the triangulation, but mostly a guess on my part.




For instance, by lifting a rig and keeping the mounting points the same you effect the roll centers and antisquat. He obviously took the roll centers into account, did he mention the antisquat?

Yup. He mentioned it. I know that was a big thing on his TJ kit with the stinger. I know he addressed it, but can't pinpoint it right now. I can tell you that it just goes...no rise in the front or squat. Which is different than the other suspension I had on it.




Did you get any g-force numbers going through the turns?

No. That would have been cool though. I will have to consider that next time. I kinda just forgot that was an option.

If you are off work today come buy me a latte this afternoon and you can drive it. My office is off 120th.

303 359 7469


IMO....

If 2 kits both utilize the same mounting locations the only real difference is quality of materials and joints. .

Springs must be tuned to the Jeep, shocks tuned to the springs, and I many of the mounting points that are good, lift companies change, many of them that need changed get left alone.

Part of the problem is that we as Jeepers buy into some of the changes that don't need to be changed.

Most companies simply make it taller. Period.

scottycards
May 21st, 2009, 10:36 AM
This is why I have a stiffer than stock swaybar on my heep that minor change improved drivability immensely

Put stiffer sway bushings in there while you're at it for max effect. Stock rubber bushings sacrifice a lot........

HTH

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 10:38 AM
. Stock rubber bushings sacrifice a lot........

HTH


Kinda depends on the goal. Part of the reason AEV stayed with stock arms, and mounts were to keep the ride qualities, flex and longivity of the rubber bushings.

My RK arms had solid joints on one end and poly on the other. It could be VERY harsh at times. One thing I noticed in the day that I have had this kit is that my tailgate and doors don't rattle anymore. :shrug: Which means that every bump is not trying to shake the Jeep apart.

Conrad
May 21st, 2009, 10:50 AM
I see what youre saying cole... but what data are they using to dial these things in? Springs weights are typically done universally same as shocks. Are they butt dynoing and guessing?

I havent ever been that anal, but some of the people who do racing, or race car design, 4 corner load balance text the vehicles... What is AEV doing that differs from other companies? I have been wondering this because to this point AEV has just been a high dollar toy company to me.

Mcstiff
May 21st, 2009, 10:52 AM
What is AEV doing that differs from other companies?

Given their past work with Jeep I am guessing that they are not using teh butt dyno alone.

scottycards
May 21st, 2009, 10:53 AM
Kinda depends on the goal. Part of the reason AEV stayed with stock arms, and mounts were to keep the ride qualities, flex and longivity of the rubber bushings.

My RK arms had solid joints on one end and poly on the other. It could be VERY harsh at times. One thing I noticed in the day that I have had this kit is that my tailgate and doors don't rattle anymore. :shrug: Which means that every bump is not trying to shake the Jeep apart.

Good point- a compromise would be to just replace one or the other- you can go with a larger diameter sway and leave the stock bushings in, or even just go with a stiff bushing on the stock dia bar.

Stock rubber bushings won't have the longevity of a poly, however. On a Jeep, super easy to replace sway bushings- so that is a plus. I hadn't considered that.

You're really hitting the crux of the idea here- people see stock mounts and think this kit must not be much, but upon closer inspection, there are a lot of other variables that can be changed on this lift kit, that will affect handling.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Conrad
May 21st, 2009, 10:55 AM
Given their past work with Jeep I am guessing that they are not using teh butt dyno alone.

Frankly I wouldnt put Jeep as the end all say all on the suspension authority... Many aftermarket places have put in more testing than they have. Remember Jeep has to market mostly to people wanting the vehicle in stock form. IE not most of us.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 10:58 AM
Well, first off Jim Frens was actually a Jeep suspension engineer.

Not being a suspension engineer myself. I can only speculate. I would imagine most of it is simply a mathmatical equation.

I did catch that the load carrying capacity, rate and frequency are all different things and you can have different load abilities and yet keep frequencies, and rates different. It is is not simply a direct corrilation between adding lift and load capacity, which is what most companies do. They simply call up a spring company and give them the total weight of the Jeep and the length of the spring they want. There is never a conversation about the other attributes of the spring. They also just pick a shock to go with it, usually based on the cost not on the performance.

Jim actually calculated exactly what the shock needed to do for his springs and Bilstien makes them. They are NOT an off the shelf Bilstien shock.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 11:03 AM
Frankly I wouldnt put Jeep as the end all say all on the suspension authority... Many aftermarket places have put in more testing than they have. Remember Jeep has to market mostly to people wanting the vehicle in stock form. IE not most of us.



Totally agree. As you can see even Jim Frens agrees since he changed some of the stock points around roll center.

I would imagine that the information exchange and facilities to test are quite a bit different than many of the other companies have access too. (but I'm just guessing here.....;););)......really I have not anything;))

Mcstiff
May 21st, 2009, 11:04 AM
Frankly I wouldnt put Jeep as the end all say all on the suspension authority... Many aftermarket places have put in more testing than they have. Remember Jeep has to market mostly to people wanting the vehicle in stock form. IE not most of us.

Just because a guy in a corner office vetos something because of cost does nto mean that the engineers do not have the ability and resources to create a sound design.

As with most everything a sacrifice must be made, with automotive design it is usually sacrificing performance for price.

scottycards
May 21st, 2009, 11:08 AM
Furniture Row Racing over here in the Stapleton area has a shaker table.

AEV ought to rent a little time on the table! Put your jeep on it, Cole.

It's quite impressive. I was over there last year checking it out.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 11:08 AM
Just because a guy in a corner office vetos something because of cost does nto mean that the engineers do not have the ability and resources to create a sound design.

As with most everything a sacrifice must be made, with automotive design it is usually sacrificing performance for price.

I actually think that is why Jim made the move to the aftermarket.


Mark Stolberg is the guy driving the Jeep in the above picture. He is a serious motorhead. Runs a performance oriented driving school, raced, etc etc. Probably has more seat time and exposure to vehicle dymanics than most of us dream of.

I am going to steal a couple of quotes from him on my facebook page.





"THE BEST handling Jeep I have ever driven. Very impressive, great design and execution Jim."




"THE BEST handling Jeep I have ever driven. Jim did a great job in design and more importantly in the execution - this modification does what all modifications should do - it improves on the original in ALL aspects."

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 11:09 AM
Furniture Row Racing over here in the Stapleton area has a shaker table.

AEV ought to rent a little time on the table! Put your jeep on it, Cole.

It's quite impressive. I was over there last year checking it out.



Jim did mention the use of a 4 post shaker, bounce tests etc. I have only hit the quick points of my notes.

Mcstiff
May 21st, 2009, 11:19 AM
Furniture Row Racing over here in the Stapleton area has a shaker table.

I would love to rent that for a day and tune my suspension (coilovers w/ adjustable compression and rebound) $$$$$.

OrangeCrush
May 21st, 2009, 11:51 AM
Put stiffer sway bushings in there while you're at it for max effect. Stock rubber bushings sacrifice a lot........

HTH


No stock bushings in the design

Another one of those non-pirate approved mods that I like :)

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs092.snc1/4671_1167156856548_1156712319_30507104_6492251_n.jpg


Helped alot with my onroad driving 06 tj with 90k miles

AEV is taking a holistic approach to suspensions with this JK and that is good

IE you don't buy springs and lift from one place then go out and buy good shock s somewhere else, sway bar system somewhere else and then hope it all works well.



thing I am interested in now is how well the jk aev suspension handles and flexes offroad:beer:

Conrad
May 21st, 2009, 12:55 PM
ill race you same tire size at PMI if you want to test it out... lol

Gotlift91
May 21st, 2009, 12:58 PM
Holy hell...nice pissin match guys! :shrug:

I think you would have gotten a lot better response from this crowd if you had posted pics of "testing" on some rocks or honda's!?!?! Many guys, such as myself, don't get turned on to much by hauling ass on a road course in a Jeep....kinda doesn't even sound right putting the two in the same sentence.

In the beginning of the thread I was thinking the same thing...."what's so special about this? " Lack of details in the beginning kinda earned some of the comments. Now that you've given some details, I can see some of the benefits of this kit over the others.

I'll give you this though, it definitely looks like it handles well. My Jeep would resemble a highschool chick on prom night after taking corners like that!

GPP33
May 21st, 2009, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the responses. I'm glad to see that they put on road handling first. As you mentioned, many companies simply try to get it up off the ground with no regard for how it will travel down the road. Reality is, provided your suspension works well on road and you have enough shock/spring length it'll do just fine off road too. Designing a suspension that will keep 4 tires on the ground while going over a rock is the easy part of suspension design.



The intersection point is in reference to the offset of the trackbar and steering arm. While parallel, they move in a different plane due to the offset. Which would cause roll steer. When they are off set due to road conditions.(flex, turns etc) the intersection of the two in their plane also needs to intersect the roll center, which in turn needs to match the rear (as I understood it).

.

I’m still not quite following you on this one. It makes sense that there could be an interaction between the steering, track bar and roll center. I’ve never thought about it but I’m trying to get my head around it. Any chance you could get Jim to write a few words on it?

Edit: Since the track bar defines the roll center the only possible interaction should be the steering about the roll center. Still interested in how it affects things.........

Mack
May 21st, 2009, 01:47 PM
I drove it.

It handles awesome. While I certainly didn't put it though it's paces like the above picture, it drives much unlike any other lifted rig I've ever piloted. Drives smooth and comfortable on the road, but as soon as you get just past the initial body roll (as it squats over) it is stiff and doesn't lift a tire. It would be pretty impressive with some Hi-Perf street tires (if there is such a thing, in a 35").

All in all, i give it 5 stars. :thumbsup:

bsaunder
May 21st, 2009, 01:53 PM
wow - an aftermarket company actually engineering their suspension system; never thought I'd see the day....

Starboard M
May 21st, 2009, 05:03 PM
So basicly he valved some Bilsteins correctly, and raised the tracbar a bit?




Its cool to see a Jeep that is built for wheeling and on road handling, but like was said before, they are very different from eachother. What makes one good in one area, makes it not do as well in the other. Its not my Jeep, so its not like I really care what you do with it, but I think you should buy a cheap car and do some autocross with it.





BTW, those Allied wheels still look good. Im jealous! Nice choice.

93ZJ
May 21st, 2009, 05:26 PM
Didn't have time to read the entire post but did get through some good and some bad posts...As for the JK AEV system, I agree it is the best on the market. I have taken a ride in their Hemi power JK with this suspension and can tell you that a lifted Jeep can handle well on and off road. For all the haters consider driving your Jeep to Moab and having a deer run out in the road. You have one option. Hit it because if you jerk the wheel going 50mph you are on you lid. Not the case with AEV's system. Don't have time to get in depth but take a ride in a JK with their suspension when you get the chance. Your opinion of AEV being overpriced junk WILL change. By the way, their TJ LA system is also one of the best on the market in my opinion if you drive your Jeep on road at all.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 21st, 2009, 06:03 PM
So basicly he valved some Bilsteins correctly, and raised the tracbar a bit?

Um...no. Did you read any of the above posts about frequency tuned springs, etc?





Its cool to see a Jeep that is built for wheeling and on road handling, but like was said before, they are very different from eachother. What makes one good in one area, makes it not do as well in the other.

Totally disagree that they are mutually exclusive. Just takes a smarter engineer to do both.


but I think you should buy a cheap car and do some autocross with it.


So you're saying I should not be auto-xing my Porsche 951?:shrug:

It's better that way, had too many championships with the other car:flipoff2:

Either way, neither one helped my Jeep get to the trail, ski area, office etc.









BTW, those Allied wheels still look good. Im jealous! Nice choice.

Thanks. Need to get them out and wheel them a bit more so they look better.

SoK66
May 22nd, 2009, 06:20 AM
Excellent write-up and very informative. I really considered AEV's suspension for my new "Jake" but settled on a 4" Teraflex kit with arms, but with 3" springs, for future build considerations (37s, etc.). For those like me just learning the ropes on JKs threads like this are invaluable. I traded by F250 tow rig for the JK, sold my trailer and YJ rock rig in a move to simplify life and hassles around here. So, like the subject Jeep, mine will do a lot of street duty, where stability & safety will be as important as trail manners.

Conrad
May 22nd, 2009, 07:54 AM
Didn't have time to read the entire post but did get through some good and some bad posts...As for the JK AEV system, I agree it is the best on the market. I have taken a ride in their Hemi power JK with this suspension and can tell you that a lifted Jeep can handle well on and off road. For all the haters consider driving your Jeep to Moab and having a deer run out in the road. You have one option. Hit it because if you jerk the wheel going 50mph you are on you lid. Not the case with AEV's system. Don't have time to get in depth but take a ride in a JK with their suspension when you get the chance. Your opinion of AEV being overpriced junk WILL change. By the way, their TJ LA system is also one of the best on the market in my opinion if you drive your Jeep on road at all.

Dunno...:shrug: I drive my TJ with a LA kit and it does fine weaving through traffic. I feel confident of its ability driving 85 mph on the freeway.To be honest one time when I half fell asleep north of woodland park I went off the road at 50mph and was able to go down the embankment and come back to the road fairly smoothly and in control. I immediately stopped and changed my drawers but all was good. I guess I find the statement "if you drive your jeep on the road at all, this is the end all kit of kits." is what bothers me, because a lot of us daily drive our TJs and alot travel on the freeway and have no problems. Maybe if you went from a crappy superlift kit or something to an AEV you thought the world of it.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 22nd, 2009, 09:51 AM
Dunno...:shrug: I drive my TJ with a LA kit and it does fine weaving through traffic. I feel confident of its ability driving 85 mph on the freeway.

Most of use do feel "fine" with out lifts. Part of that is because we have not driven something better.

Loved the way my YJ drove, my TJ was "fine", the JK was even good with the other lift. I was wondering why I was going to all the hassel. Now I know!! It really is much better. You are welcome to come drive it and decide for your self.




I guess I find the statement "if you drive your jeep on the road at all, this is the end all kit of kits." is what bothers me, because a lot of us daily drive our TJs and alot travel on the freeway and have no problems.

I always love statements like this. Kinda like the smoker or dug addict saying "hasn't killed me yet". So therefore it must be "fine"

The reality is that there are many good kits on the market that will get you to and from the office and trail safely. Could they be better? YES. This is just one that is taking it to the next level. If you're not ready for the next level that is fine too.

I would like to know what the nay sayers think is in this suspension that is hindering it's off road capability? Everyone against it seems to think it is somehow not going to work on a trail now.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 22nd, 2009, 09:56 AM
Just going to toss this in here.

Here are some pictures of this Jeep BONE STOCK on Wheeler Lake. It now sits 4.5" taller, soon to have the 37s on it, (currently 35s, and the rest really does not matter right now).

So as far as being hindered on the trail, where do you nay sayers think I won't be able to go now. (that you would take another JK on 37s?)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2161/2803702298_9a5c29bd91_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2802858047_96b3b33713_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/2803698484_2a711fcdac_b.jpg

meatblanket
May 22nd, 2009, 01:11 PM
What's gonna happen to yer handlin' when you put yer 100# wench on the bumper?

wileec
May 22nd, 2009, 01:43 PM
What's gonna happen to yer handlin' when you put yer 100# wench on the bumper?

The 100# wench would be better on the passenger seat:flipoff2:

rock hopper
May 22nd, 2009, 03:06 PM
I wanna drive this thing. I have a TJ that is on 1" of lift and 36's and it is stupid stable so I gotta try this thing out

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 22nd, 2009, 05:53 PM
What's gonna happen to yer handlin' when you put yer 100# wench on the bumper?



We talked about this a little bit. It should actually get better. Jim measured my Jeep and said I am currently about 7/8" too high because my JK is too light compared to the Jeeps he designed the kit around. (which all have AEV front bumpers, winches, lights, some have Hemis, AEV hood).

When we drove to the Rio after installing the suspension Jim said it rode a bit too rough, we measured and found that it was just a tad too lite.

These were really designed for some expedition type travle where the Jeep is to be heavily loaded and/or towing. The springs are progressively wound, unlike may of the other lift springs I have seen.

While we are on the topic. Did anyone notice that AEV does not currently offer a 2 door lift? That is because they ahve not had the time to engineer the correct springs for the 2 door yet. Unlike all the other companies out there that simply use the same springs for both wheelbase Jeeps. That should tell you something right there.

formatt
May 23rd, 2009, 10:07 AM
ok.. this has just gotten a little silly now. Cole, you make it sound like with all the engineering that's going into these kits, everything else out there on the road is unsafe. I get a little of the Sky Is Falling effect from this post: "If you have anything other than this suspension and something happens on the road where you have to turn your wheel, you're probably going to die". If you're going to drive like an asshole in your Jeep, then I'm sure the AEV kit is absolutely perfect! It looks like it's been engineered for that particular type of driver on the road. Myself, I was always fine with going into turns like every other sensible driver out there. Before this goes down the "but it's nice to have a vehicle that CAN handle turns like that incase you have to avoid the bad situations" road, this suspension won't make up for lack of personal responsiveness. If someone is that worried about being put into those situations, you probably shouldn't be driving anything other than an M4 Sherman.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the engineers at Jeep spent a good deal of time and money doing their own R&D on the stock suspension. Then you have companies like RE and TNT (I keep coming back to those two because I've used their stuff in the past, when I owned jeeps) that base their systems off the same concept that Jeep developed with the only difference of beefing it up exponentially. Of course there's some real garbage out there but... In the end, you're driving a Jeep, not an Audi.

Sorry if I'm coming off as a "hater".. I'm really not. I actually like a LOT of their products. I think they're one of the most innovative companies out there and they take a lot of good concepts and make them great. That being said, I feel like I'm reading a "Sham-Wow" infomercial. It's gotten to be borderline "This is the greatest suspension ever created by man and if you don't like it, you're an idiot regardless of the fact that you're only getting half of the test review". To be honest, I haven't made up my mind about this setup because all I'm getting is how this thing handles around some cones.

I'll say it again, the reason for my posts are due to the lack of photos showing the offroad capabilities of this setup. 3 pages in and I'll I've seen is your stock rig rolling down Wheeler. Sure, there are going to be the standard few people here that jump on the "this is the greatest thing ever because everyone else is thinking it" bandwagon (there always are) but in general though, I'd guess a larger majority of people here care more about the offroad capabilities than the onroad when looking for a new suspension... not to say they're a bunch of redneck hicks that don't care; they just care a little more about one as opposed to the other with their Jeeps.

Cole, judging by the photos and the basic's of what you've touched on, I can't help but think this thing handles really well on the roads. If it handles just as well offroad as on.. well the bar has certainly been raised for every other manufacturer out there and they should probably be moving their asses with their own R&D. There's no need to go through my post here with a quote/respond session.. I'd love to hear the other half of the review, post some of the other 500 images you took with it offroad and put it all to rest.

:beer:

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 23rd, 2009, 02:16 PM
First, you obviosly missed 1/2 the stuff I wrote.

Second, I never posted a review. That would be silly after a whole 4 days of ownership. All I started out posting was a fun picture from day 1 of testing. So far I have had to work 4 of the last 4 days of owning this. So relax a bit and the wheeling pics will come. Then after MUCH more driving I will give a real review.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 23rd, 2009, 02:16 PM
First, you obviosly missed 1/2 the stuff I wrote.

Second, I never posted a review. That would be silly after a whole 4 days of ownership. All I started out posting was a fun picture from day 1 of testing. So far I have had to work 4 of the last 4 days of owning this. So relax a bit and the wheeling pics will come. Then after MUCH more driving I will give a real review.

DanaT
May 23rd, 2009, 04:19 PM
I found this interesting for what its worth.

I am needing a new vehicle and my two choices couldnít be more opposite. One of the rides I like is a JK Rubicon. What I have never really liked about the YJs I have owned are the poor highway manners. I am realistic hear. If I use a car for a daily driver, 98% of the miles are racked up on road. To see a suspension kit that has lift and good street handling seems good to me.

But I am in the minority here but thatís why I say my choices of DD cars are polar opposites. Really I like the SUVs for what they are. The JK is basically the crudest SUV on the market and makes no bones about it. It trades highway/street/creature comforts for off-road. The other SUV I am think of is the Cayenne. You canít compare its off-road capabilities to the JK in any way. However, you also canít drive a JK on road at 120mph (do they even go that fast??) and feel relaxed doing it (for the haters, yes, I have driven a Cayenne like that and for long timesÖ.hintÖit was a roadtrip to Munich).

This thread actually makes me think I could live with a JK Rubicon and nice sized tires on the street. Now, WTF doesnít jeep put the 4.7 or the hemi in it. I would go buy one tomorrow. I know I can get a hemi conversion but $20K of conversion cost? I like the hemi in my Grand, and would love a J even if it had something more than the V6..the 4.7 with flex fuel would be nice.
-Dana

bsaunder
May 23rd, 2009, 04:51 PM
I think a lot of the "meh" responses to the cornering shot is due to people not knowing how hard Mark will drive a vehicle. If he pushed the JK and is praising it; that speaks loads to me; but then again, I've worked with Mark and can only estimate how much better his skills are now.
If it does at least as well off-road as it did stock, then I'd say all the other manufacturers very much have had the bar raised on them.

I can't speak about TNT, but for RE and most all the other companies out there - they don't actually engineer their systems. They may say they do, but if you have a knowledgeable person actually quiz them, it becomes apparent very fast that they are doing their best to take a stock design assuming it is done correctly, and then just extend a few lines so to speak. The flip side is a properly engineered system will reflect it in the cost as all the R&D needs to be covered as well.

GPP33
May 23rd, 2009, 08:59 PM
I found this interesting for what its worth.

I am needing a new vehicle and my two choices couldn’t be more opposite. One of the rides I like is a JK Rubicon. What I have never really liked about the YJs I have owned are the poor highway manners. I am realistic hear. If I use a car for a daily driver, 98% of the miles are racked up on road. To see a suspension kit that has lift and good street handling seems good to me.

But I am in the minority here but that’s why I say my choices of DD cars are polar opposites. Really I like the SUVs for what they are. The JK is basically the crudest SUV on the market and makes no bones about it. It trades highway/street/creature comforts for off-road. The other SUV I am think of is the Cayenne. You can’t compare its off-road capabilities to the JK in any way. However, you also can’t drive a JK on road at 120mph (do they even go that fast??) and feel relaxed doing it (for the haters, yes, I have driven a Cayenne like that and for long times….hint…it was a roadtrip to Munich).

This thread actually makes me think I could live with a JK Rubicon and nice sized tires on the street. Now, WTF doesn’t jeep put the 4.7 or the hemi in it. I would go buy one tomorrow. I know I can get a hemi conversion but $20K of conversion cost? I like the hemi in my Grand, and would love a J even if it had something more than the V6..the 4.7 with flex fuel would be nice.
-Dana

Damn, you sound like someone who doesn’t know if they are gay or straight. Not to imply that a JK or a Cayenne is a homo ride but you’re right, those couldn’t be more different. SUV is the ONLY thing they have in common.

A quick glance at Yahoo autos leads me to believe you could buy the JK, drop a Hemi into it and still be about $20K less than a V8 Cayenne. And that’s before the triple digit speeding tickets.

But hey, they have 2.9% for 24 months on a 911 Turbo.

DanaT
May 24th, 2009, 08:14 AM
Damn, you sound like someone who doesnít know if they are gay or straight. Not to imply that a JK or a Cayenne is a homo ride but youíre right, those couldnít be more different. SUV is the ONLY thing they have in common.

No, they really have more in common than SUV (or maybe only that). The Rubicon Unlimited is a 4 Door 4WD vehicle. It holds 4 people and is an all-weather vechile. The Cayenne is also a $Door 4WD vehilce that holds 4 people and is an all weather vehicle. Where they verge is one is geared more for the off-road situations and one is geared more for mall crawlin.

What I struggle with on the choice is that I really like Jeeps. I have had two YJ and they were just plain fun vehicles. Crude vehicles but fun. The JK has much better road manners, and as this thread points out with new suspension kits available on road use must not be scarificed for big tires and a lift.

But, being honest with myself I dont do routine heavy wheeling. I do some mild-moderate trails and go camping. 98% of my driving is on road. I have a 4WD F150 (short bed regular cab so not a huge thing other than width and weight) that I can take off-road. Throw a few grand at it for some 35s and lockers an it would do fine for most of what I go off-road for.

I am looking for a DD 4WD vehicle. I just like those two vehicles.

So, yes, I dont know if I am gay or straight. Otherwise I would have already made a decision.




A quick glance at Yahoo autos leads me to believe you could buy the JK, drop a Hemi into it and still be about $20K less than a V8 Cayenne. And thatís before the triple digit speeding tickets.

But hey, they have 2.9% for 24 months on a 911 Turbo.

Yes, but you spend $20K on a hemi conversion and you instantly loose $20K in value. Modifications rarely increase value of cars and most often decrease value. For example, I wouldnt pay any extra (and likely less) for a used Jeep with a lift kit. Why? Most of the time this means the jeep was used harder than a non-lifted jeep. For a used Jeep I would want a Rubicon that an old lady drove around and never saw a dirt road. Really, I just dont want a vehicle that someone else beat up. Modifications generally mean agressive driving was done (whether speed, off-road, etc).

-Dana

woffles
May 24th, 2009, 09:40 AM
Talking to the owner of a local shop here in the Springs, he got to ride in their Hemi AEV JK out in MOAB, I'm waiting for the two door version to put on my jeep. They did the road test and it sat flat on the turns and didn't nose dive in hard stops. They then went out on washboards with large embedded rocks and opened it up and it handled it easily. It sounds like it is a true expedition class suspension system and not just a lift kit.

Any clue when the 2 door version is coming out?

MtnRunner
May 24th, 2009, 04:52 PM
I got to drive the one of the AEV JK Unlim Hemi 5.7 Jeeps when I was up in Montana last year. This is really how the Jeep should have come equipped. With AEV's 4.5" lift and 37's with stock gearing, it would still smoke the tires from a dead start. It was a very nice match the V8 and the 4door JK. I also flexed it out a bit in their parking lot. It did not flex as well as the same height short arm kits out there with Heim or Johnny Joints on the arms...but it was pretty close. It had no bumpsteer or wander. If they would have released a kit 6 months earlier, I'd be running theirs. I may still switch over to their kit from my RE kit. I'll have to drive your rig again Cole to see how this one compares.

Did your wander go away with this new kit and your beadlock wheels?

Mark

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 24th, 2009, 05:39 PM
Yeah, drives perfect now. All the issues I thought were tires are gone. The tires and wheels are still the same.

I had a pull when braking, a touch of wander etc. All fixed now.

The other suspension was on there for 20k

scottycards
May 25th, 2009, 05:21 AM
Cole- if you want to go run up Nugget today, just let me know. I'll have Kelly come along and she can take photos.

Nugget ought to hush up the naysayers....I was up there yesterday- it's greasy from the rain, and will be tough.....we could hit LHC on the way down, although there's not much challenging terrian open up there anymore.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 25th, 2009, 05:58 AM
Think I'm going to run Eagle Rock with some guys today. Wanna go?

Mcstiff
May 26th, 2009, 09:19 AM
The other SUV I am think of is the Cayenne. You canít compare its off-road capabilities to the JK in any way. However, you also canít drive a JK on road at 120mph (do they even go that fast??) and feel relaxed doing it (for the haters, yes, I have driven a Cayenne like that and for long timesÖ.hintÖit was a roadtrip to Munich).

The Touareg won 2004 4x4 Truck of The Year. Same platform as the Cayenne, can be found with a V10 TTDI :D

scottycards
May 26th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Think I'm going to run Eagle Rock with some guys today. Wanna go?

Pulled bus driver duty for the bolder boulder race for the wife and her friends.

Post up some photos! :thumbsup:

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 26th, 2009, 09:49 AM
Waiting to get the pictures from some of the other guys on the trail.

(hard to take pictures of yourself:rolleyes:)


It was raining all day. Trail was slick and muddy but I was able to run the whole thing unlocked. Guess all those road handling characteristics really screwed up my off road ability:flipoff2:.

Flexes far enough to put the 35s in the fenders. (bottoms of the Bushwachers are stock) So not really any room for more flex.:shrug:

Ran quite, does AWESOME at the higher speed washboard and jumping drainage bumps;)


Here is a picture of one of the other guys I took. I will post some of the AEV when I get them.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3570/3565225746_d3f663c03d_b.jpg


Proof that it was at least there, until I get the pics from the other guys.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3564423653_5bd6875735_b.jpg

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 26th, 2009, 09:58 AM
Okay, found some shots on a thread on Jkowners.com.

http://jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9907

Nothing dramatic, but that is half the point. Not sure exactly who to give credit for each photo.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f400/airric00/SL380027.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f400/airric00/SL380055.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f400/airric00/SL380056.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs016.snc1/4222_186260035051_766890051_7081412_307255_n.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs016.snc1/4222_186260050051_766890051_7081414_3250220_n.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs016.snc1/4222_186260030051_766890051_7081411_6857497_n.jpg

THETODD
May 26th, 2009, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE=Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford;1461579]Most of use do feel "fine" with out lifts. Part of that is because we have not driven something better.[QUOTE]

Note to self----never drive Cole's Jeep!:D

I like my Rock Krawler 5.5 inch kit just fine but I'm sure that there are better kits out there.

Hey Cole, if they want my rig next fall to develop the two door suspension system let them know they can have mine for a few months. Heck I wouldn't charge them anything!:beer:

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 26th, 2009, 03:09 PM
You REALLY don't want Jim to have your Jeep for a few months.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 27th, 2009, 10:28 AM
The AEV suspension starts at 2:24.(all unlocked)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YXEuaHoSKY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjkowners%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D9907&feature=player_embedded

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 27th, 2009, 03:59 PM
Got a bit quiet in this thread.

Mcstiff
May 27th, 2009, 04:09 PM
Just watched it. Looks great!

scottycards
May 27th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Vid doesn't show much suspension cycling...........and the music sucks donkey bawls.

A Spring Creek run seems to be in order.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 27th, 2009, 04:37 PM
Apparently this is a "4x4 product review" now that the thread has been moved:shrug:

I post a picture, there is discussion and now it is a review?


I will post a "review" once I have had time to fully evaluate the suspension. :flipoff2:

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 27th, 2009, 04:40 PM
Vid doesn't show much suspension cycling...........and the music sucks donkey bawls.

A Spring Creek run seems to be in order.


I did'nt create the video or select the trail. But I did prove that it does in fact work off road.

Currently my flex is limited by my fenders and my stock front drive shaft, not the suspension. Which means it flexes too far for the stock parts!

Steve
May 27th, 2009, 05:06 PM
Apparently this is a "4x4 product review" now that the thread has been moved:shrug:

I post a picture, there is discussion and now it is a review?

34 posts by you saying how this lift is the best thing since sliced bread? Yeah, that's a review. AEV should be paying you to advertise for them.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
May 27th, 2009, 06:25 PM
Funny, I just re-read every one of my posts and have only 1 post expressing any sort of opinion on the suspension.

The rest were all a discussion of the engineering points I took notes on.

So show me these 34 posts of my saying its the best thing since sliced bread?!

(not saying it's not, but I have not had it long enough to make a full judgement and have purposely left out the "review" part of this. So far it was just a few pictures and lots of debate)

Alec W
May 27th, 2009, 06:59 PM
I was skeptical when I first read this post but after watching Cole at Eagle Rock I can say it did everything everyone else did. Thatís not saying a lot since itís not that hardcore of a trail but it articulated like my poly performance lift and was only stopped by the shock travel (guessing 14 inches). It was eerily quiet but I bet that changes after a few runs ;)


I think someone needs to get Cole out on Carnage BV for a true test :D:D

THETODD
May 28th, 2009, 04:41 PM
Vid doesn't show much suspension cycling...........and the music sucks donkey bawls.

A Spring Creek run seems to be in order.

Maybe on Sunday?

scottycards
May 29th, 2009, 04:58 AM
Maybe on Sunday?

Sounds like a plan. Let me clear it with my better half.

Got your PM.

MaloCS
June 1st, 2009, 11:41 PM
I had the privilege of driving behind a JK outfitted with the Nth Degree 3.5" kit on Golden Spike. From what I seen the AEV kit flexed like the Rubicon Express, TeraFlex, hybrid and Rancho kits that were also represented. It did everything that the other kits did and didn't stand out by lifting tires when tires should not be lifted.

I do not have any testimonials of how it drives on pavement other then the marketing speak by AEV but from what I've read and how I've seen it perform off road I am going to upgrade from my Rancho to this kit (Nth Degree 3.5" Premium) later this month.

Since everyone that posted on this thread is interested in real world performance while off road I decided to throw some comparison pics together. The following photos show side by side comparisons of the 3.5" Nth Degree kit compared to other brands in the industry.

http://www.malocs.com/JK/images/forums/aevVS_01.jpg

http://www.malocs.com/JK/images/forums/aevVS_02.jpg

http://www.malocs.com/JK/images/forums/aevVS_03.jpg

http://www.malocs.com/JK/images/forums/aevVS_04.jpg

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
June 2nd, 2009, 10:35 AM
Cool comparison shots. Thanks for posting that.

scottycards
June 2nd, 2009, 10:39 AM
Cool comparison. They all look very adequate. I guess price would be a driving (pun intended) factor after seeing the comparison.

No doubt, the AEV kit looks as good as any in the rocks. So what's the uplift over the other kits? I assume AEV is a premium price point, given that it shows at least as good off-road manners, and claims superior road manners.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
June 2nd, 2009, 11:23 AM
AEV/Nth is between $1,200-$1,500

scottycards
June 2nd, 2009, 11:31 AM
Doesn't seem like that much more than the others. I haven't shopped lifts recently, but I don't see where a person could go wrong going with the AEV setup, particularly with the advantage of good road manners.

Nice.

Mcstiff
June 2nd, 2009, 11:31 AM
Thats about what I bought my Skyjacker RR "6 inch" XJ lift for 9 years ago. Not bad!

YJgirl
June 3rd, 2009, 12:04 PM
Thanks Cole for the great info! I was wondering how the testing with Jim when, now I know.

Matt - great lame first post. Do you even wheel anymore????? :flipoff2:

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
June 3rd, 2009, 12:43 PM
Thanks Val. Wanna drive it?

YJgirl
June 4th, 2009, 06:58 AM
Thanks Val. Wanna drive it?
Heck ya!!! Since I rode in you jeep with the old suspension I'd like to see what the new one feels like. The big question is does it fit in the garage with the Yakima rack on????? :D

JimhatTJ
June 4th, 2009, 08:52 AM
in all of those comparison pics, the jeep that has a tire off the ground is going through golden crack at a different angle than the jeep with all tires on the ground.

if they are going to try and use that for comparison they should have all the rigs going through at the same angle.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
June 4th, 2009, 09:01 AM
Pretty sure they did not take the pics for comparison purposes. He just happen to have them.

It really has nothing to do with the tire off the ground. You can see that they are all flexing about the same if you look at the top of the tire compared to the rock rail behind it. At the most you probably have an 1-2" inches of difference. Which really is not enough to make or break you on an obstacle. As demonstrated by the comparison, you can change your line.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
June 4th, 2009, 01:54 PM
MaloCS,

Looks like you asked Jim a ton of questions on the AEV forum. Did you get your suspension installed? Thoughts?

MaloCS
June 9th, 2009, 09:57 AM
MaloCS,

Looks like you asked Jim a ton of questions on the AEV forum. Did you get your suspension installed? Thoughts?

Yeah, I really hammered Jim with the questions but he answered every one with well thought out and detailed responses. I wasn't trying to make his life hard I just wanted to make sure this lift is going to be the last lift I have to buy. I really don't want to drop another few thousand dollars in a couple of years because I'm not happy with it. After reading Jim's responses and seeing the lift in action I feel comfortable with my decision.

My JK is scheduled for the install on June 24th. I plan on taking her out that next Saturday so I'll report back as to how it handles compared to my current 3" Rancho Sport system. I honestly don't think the AEV has to do much to outperform what I'm running now.

:)



in all of those comparison pics, the jeep that has a tire off the ground is going through golden crack at a different angle than the jeep with all tires on the ground.

if they are going to try and use that for comparison they should have all the rigs going through at the same angle.

I didn't set out to create a side by side comparison between lifts because what you see in those photos was captured out of pure luck. It just so happened that every vehicle in the group was a 4-Door JK with different suspension systems of the same approximate height. Not only that but the photographer was stationary while the entire group ran the same obstacle with approximately the same line. The photos are not intended to compare each lift to the thousandth of an inch. The side by side photos are merely to give a general idea of how the AEV kit performs in relationaship to the other kits in the photos.

The reason I did this is because there are several opinions that the AEV kit doesn't flex well, is not meant for off road use and the fact that I was considering installing this system on my JK. I think the photos I posted show that the AEV kit can keep up with the Teraflex and Rubicon Express products in the articulation department.

Since I didn't wear a lab coat or take into consideration the direction of the wind or measure the degree of approach to the obstacle I can't say with any certainty that the AEV kit has AS MUCH OR MORE travel as the aforementioned systems. What I can say is the AEV kit kept up with the better known brands and didn't limit or hurt the JK in any way, shape or form.

:)

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
June 9th, 2009, 02:10 PM
MaloCS,


Well said. You may be interested in this.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4426110#post4426110

MaloCS
June 11th, 2009, 02:46 PM
MaloCS,


Well said. You may be interested in this.

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4426110#post4426110

That's funny, thanks for sharing. I really didn't mean to piss anyone off. Honest. :laughing:

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
June 30th, 2009, 10:02 AM
Just an interesting note.

I had a buddy over helping me work on another project. He brought over his TJ with Teraflex long arm, 35s and 6" of lift. (without fender trimming this is the total lift needed to run 35s on a TJ, I can fit 37s on this 4.5" AEV).

I put a magnetic angle finder on his control arms and mine just for the hell of it.

The angle was witin 0.5* of each other.

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
July 3rd, 2009, 06:31 PM
Took it up Wheeler Lake today.

Couple of shots for reference. Rides really smooth over the rocks.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3641/3685141961_3c0b30625b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2436/3685175275_2a6d69e9c5_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2545/3685168543_8d31e7f7f7_b.jpg

Front bushing at full stuff.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2601/3685972556_e749c82637_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3685991386_e1317ec87c_b.jpg

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
July 3rd, 2009, 06:38 PM
I also got stopped by the snow. JK was just too heavy, sank right in. Tried for awhile but it would just not clear it.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2517/3685140417_074d17b058_b.jpg

Mcstiff
July 3rd, 2009, 11:01 PM
A FLAW! :D "Just add lightness"!

MaloCS
July 5th, 2009, 11:42 PM
Nice pics Cole. We should hook up and hit a trail. I still haven't had the opportunity to get my new Nth lift out yet.

:)

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
July 6th, 2009, 08:48 AM
Would love to go do a trail.


How do you like it so far compared to your other lift?

MaloCS
July 6th, 2009, 09:14 AM
Would love to go do a trail.


How do you like it so far compared to your other lift?

As far as streetability is concerned the AEV lift is heads and tails above the Rancho lift I was running. I still need to get her off road which will determine if I'm truly happy with the money I spent.

:)

Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford
July 6th, 2009, 09:47 AM
..... Also I am able to re-center my rear wheel in the wheel well. Put a lot of lift on A JK with factory arms and it will look like your rear wheels are about to jump into the back seat.






I got a couple of good shots of this this weekend. Just thought I would share since it was mentioned on another board about wheels not being centered in the wheel wells at rest.

I don't have a great side shot of my Jeep, but here is MaloCS JK with the AEV 4.5" and 35s. .

You can see that the rear wheel does sit forward in the wheel well at rest. Which people tend to not like the look of. However, at full tuck it should sit dead center in the wheel well, which is the true form over function.

http://www.malocs.com/JK/images/forums/NthDegree.jpg


Here is my JK with the 35" tire full stuffed against the bump stop. Stock bumpers, rock rails not trimmed yet etc. (my bumpstop is set up for the 35s, as soon as I put on the 37s I will flip it over)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3610/3685171951_787256ff0b_b.jpg

Front at full stuff.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3685184179_707dc6e77a_b.jpg

Obviously, bumper changes would make more room. Depending on how you lengthen your arms you may not hit the bumpstops at full flex. This also applies to the side to side adjustment people do with the track bars. The axles should sit slightly off set so that at full compression they hit the bump stops.