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View Full Version : Convince me



kmon35
March 14th, 2009, 10:49 AM
I have never shot a .40 cal. Don't know much about them. I know about 9mm and .45ACP/ I like the capacity of the 9mm, I like the stopping power of the .45ACP.

I know this is an opinion based subject, so let the opinions fly.

Do I need a .40, and if so why?

Thank you and let it begin.

Loki
March 14th, 2009, 11:47 AM
The .40 splits the difference between the 9mm and the .45 auto. It provides more power than the 9, and the ability to carry more rounds than the 45. But I'd say all 3 will do the same job with proper shot placement. For some people its harder to shoot, than either of them due to snappier recoil.
Some say that because its not as popular that It would be harder to find ammo, in times like these, but I found the opposite to be true, I've found .40 on the shelf where there were no 9 or 45 available.

I'd say shoot one first and if the recoil is acceptable to you, then get one.

UnlimitedFun
March 14th, 2009, 11:56 AM
Depending on whether you have a .45 already and/or are set on a new gun, there is another option. The Baby Desert Eagle .45 doesn't have a bad recoil and the magazines provide 10+1 capacity. This would allow for .45 stopping power with a higher round capacity than a lot of other models.

Just my $0.04 worth (darn inflation)...

Pilot
March 14th, 2009, 12:39 PM
For me the .40 is an answer to a question never asked. 9MM, .40 and .45 will all do the job with modern JHP ammo. Use whichever one you can shoot the best. For everyday carry I prefer 9MM but shoot a lot of .45 at the range. I do not like the snappy recoil of the .40. YMMV.

noahfecks
March 14th, 2009, 01:42 PM
357 Sig? Same casing as 40 S&W shooting a 9mm projectile. Higher muzzle velocity/penetration with decrease in recoil and better accuracy.:shrug:

MonkeyBomb
March 14th, 2009, 05:35 PM
40 cal is a working gun. A very good one. I had 5 of them prior to the tragic loss. Great guns but they do have a snappy recoil. It doesn't bother me. If you are looking for capacity look at the XD 45 line. I had an XD 45 that was great 13 in the mag one in the tube. 14 45 cal vs 16 40 cal.

Ammmo is right in between a 9mm and 45. Runs about $149 bucks for 500 rounds of decent practice ammo. For comparison I pay $119 buck per 500 for 9mm and $179 per 500 for 45 cal.

My take on it is get the biggest caliber you can accurately shoot. The performance that I have seen in real world shootings from the 40 cal have been impressive.

CJ_More
March 14th, 2009, 06:19 PM
Kmon- Look me up and we can head to RMSS's indoor range. I have an XD 40 and a Kimber 45. You can shoot em both. You can also rent guns there if you have something specific you wanna try before you buy!!

CJ_More
March 14th, 2009, 06:23 PM
Caliber Description FPS Energy
45 Auto FMJ 230g 853 371

9mmAuto FMJ 115g 1280 421

40S&W FMJ 180g 968 375

Details taken from cover of Cheaperthandirt catalog

MonkeyBomb
March 14th, 2009, 06:38 PM
Interesting numbers especially the energy. Thats exacty opposite of the ballistics for the bullets that I use. Energy is the highest for 40, just under is 45 and last is 9mm.

Speer GDHPLE (energy) @ 25 yards

45 185 grain 409 ft lbs/ 40 cal 155 grain 435 ft LBS/ 9mm 115 grain 372 Ft lbs

The numbers posted are the highest for each normal non +P rounds.

Same weights 45 cal 230 grain 384 ft lbs/ 40 cal 180 grain 390 Ft Lbs/ 9mm 115 grain 372 ft lbs

kmon35
March 14th, 2009, 08:31 PM
Interesting thoughts so far, thank you all. I have owned 9mm and .45, love them both.

I am wanting something new. My .45 is a 1911, so 7+1 or 10+1 with extended mag. I really want either a Sig or H&K USP. I am wondering if I need another of the same caliber, or something different. I know they are both more than an XD, but I have always wanted one of those 2.

I have not shot a .40 before, but I don't imagine the recoil would be too difficult. I could be wrong.

cjmore- I have considered going to RMSS, thats where I prefer to do most of my business. We may have to hook up one of these days just for the hel* of it.

MonkeyBomb
March 14th, 2009, 09:14 PM
I am interested in the 357 sig as well. It has a very similar recoil to the 40. Got to shoot a demo from glock a few weeks ago. Its a blazing fast 9mm. 457 ft lbs at 25 yards with a 125 grain bullet. In Speer GDHP

BumperMan
March 15th, 2009, 09:14 AM
I used to own a couple of 40s. I am not a fan. I will never buy another 40. I will buy 45s from now on. I may buy a 9mm if I am looking for something small.

VistaCruiser
March 15th, 2009, 05:00 PM
Another vote for the XD. High-cap and great grip angle. I'm a 1911 guy and like the feel of the XD over other polymer frame pistols.

kmon35
March 15th, 2009, 07:00 PM
I am a 1911 guy too, but I definately want to have a few different things in the boat.

MonkeyBomb
March 15th, 2009, 07:30 PM
The thing I like about the XD 45 is that it has a similar grip angle to the 1911's. That and 13 +1

kmon35
March 16th, 2009, 08:44 PM
So, I am not finding any convincing data or info to lead me to believe that .40 cal is necessary.

If you want capacity, stay with 9mm, which will do the job. If you want pure stopping power, .45automatic.

Since I already have 9mm ammo, just sold the 9mm to partially fund the new, and have plenty of .45 and a 1911, I could just replace the 9mm and be happy.

oldcjguy
March 16th, 2009, 09:40 PM
357 Sig? Same casing as 40 S&W shooting a 9mm projectile. Higher muzzle velocity/penetration with decrease in recoil and better accuracy.:shrug:

Talk about hard to find ammo if ammo really gets tight. I'd stick with one of the big 4 - 9, 40, 45, 357/38

Yucca-Man
March 17th, 2009, 04:00 PM
Do I need a .40, and if so why?


So, I am not finding any convincing data or info to lead me to believe that .40 cal is necessary.Can't believe nobody has quoted the First Rule of Gunfighting: "Never come to a gunfight with a caliber that does not begin with a 4."

9mm is not on the authorized carry list for at least some local law enforcement agencies - .40 or .45 is, if that tells you anything.

noahfecks
March 17th, 2009, 10:12 PM
Talk about hard to find ammo if ammo really gets tight. I'd stick with one of the big 4 - 9, 40, 45, 357/38

It would be a good point if I wasnt a reloader.:D

The popularity of the big 4 could be exactly what makes it hard to get if a situation were to arrise.:shrug:

Loki
March 18th, 2009, 08:34 AM
It would be a good point if I wasnt a reloader.:D

The popularity of the big 4 could be exactly what makes it hard to get if a situation were to arrise.:shrug:

Thats why Its good to diversify. Have at least one weapon to chamber any of the big 4. :thumbsup:

ZappBranigan
March 18th, 2009, 12:27 PM
Can't believe nobody has quoted the First Rule of Gunfighting: "Never come to a gunfight with a caliber that does not begin with a 4."



:rolleyes:

Doesn't the same "rules for gunfighting" also say something like "the purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have lost in the first place?" ;)




9mm is not on the authorized carry list for at least some local law enforcement agencies - .40 or .45 is, if that tells you anything.

Is the OP a cop or a soldier? If not, that comparison is inapt. Cops and soldiers get paid to take on the bad guys deliberately.

Armed citizens are armed to protect themselves and to extract themselves from a dangerous situation.

Like Budman and Loki, I've come to the conclusion that the .40 cal phenomenon is the triumph of marketing over common sense, heavily helped by an assumption that "bigger is better" and "newer is better." I've fired some heavy recoiling handguns but nothing as unpleasant as my Glock 23 with full power .40 rounds. I was to the point of trading it in until I found that I could get a 9mm conversion barrel from http://www.topglock.com.

Now I'm very happy with the gun having 15 rounds of 9mm Hydroshoks and I certainly don't feel like I'm inadequately armed. Best of all, I can get cheaper 9mm practice ammo, and more practice = more proficiency.

I also have a Springfield M1911A1 and although it's too big to carry comfortably, I can shoot it all day. Best of all, both .45 and 9mm rounds are more available and less expensive than .40.

So I say if you want to go big, get a .45, and if you want lots of rounds, go 9mm.

Either that or just get a revolver in .357 and you can fire either .38 Special or full power magnum loads.

kmon35
March 18th, 2009, 03:00 PM
Already have a 1911, and very happy with it. I am leaning toward replacing the 9mm I sold with probably a Sig p229. I want to look again at the USP before deciding.

Not to mention the fact that I don't have the money for either just yet. I will hopefully fund out of the classified section soon.

Thanks for the input.

74BuckinBronc
March 20th, 2009, 08:56 AM
I can make it real easy for ya.

You can't have too many guns
:D

ZappBranigan
March 20th, 2009, 09:37 AM
I can make it real easy for ya.

You can't have too many guns
:D

That's true but IMO you can have too many calibers. Fewer calibers = better.

74BuckinBronc
March 20th, 2009, 09:42 AM
While ammo for different calibers are different prices, they are all generally about the same considering common calibers. If you've got the space to store all your guns and their ammo in a secure manner, buy all you want. I know I would if I had the cash and storage. Plus different calibers are better at certain things than others, so having more choices = better IMO.

note to self: when building my custom house, design in a concrete gun safe closet!

J.D.

Kong
March 21st, 2009, 02:51 PM
Can't believe nobody has quoted the First Rule of Gunfighting: "Never come to a gunfight with a caliber that does not begin with a 4."

9mm is not on the authorized carry list for at least some local law enforcement agencies - .40 or .45 is, if that tells you anything.

I thought the First Rule of Gunfighting was: "Have a gun"? :shrug:

:flipoff2:

Pilot
March 21st, 2009, 04:46 PM
I thought the First Rule of Gunfighting was: "Have a gun"? :shrug:

:flipoff2:

Ha yeah. For me the first rule of gunfighting is to avoid the fight.

Yucca-Man
March 21st, 2009, 11:21 PM
I thought the First Rule of Gunfighting was: "Have a gun"? :shrug:

:flipoff2:Silence, infidel! :flipoff2:

JR4X
March 22nd, 2009, 08:33 AM
:

Like Budman and Loki, I've come to the conclusion that the .40 cal phenomenon is the triumph of marketing over common sense, heavily helped by an assumption that "bigger is better" and "newer is better." I've fired some heavy recoiling handguns but nothing as unpleasant as my Glock 23 with full power .40 rounds. I was to the point of trading it in until I found that I could get a 9mm conversion barrel from http://www.topglock.com.

.


I dont think my .40 recoils as hard as my friends .45 acp :shrug: I feel like I recover pretty quickly but I am no expert. I bought it because the price was reasonable and at that time .40 was more available than 9mm and .45. Now nothing is readily available, till the coded shit comes out anyway.

MonkeyBomb
March 22nd, 2009, 10:57 AM
Coded ammo isn't coming. Not in this state. I know several states have proposed legislation but i'm not aware of any passing. I hope it doesn't.

Pilot
March 22nd, 2009, 02:32 PM
I dont think my .40 recoils as hard as my friends .45 acp :shrug: I feel like I recover pretty quickly but I am no expert. I bought it because the price was reasonable and at that time .40 was more available than 9mm and .45. Now nothing is readily available, till the coded shit comes out anyway.

It may be the platform you were using. Is your friends .45 a 1911 style pistol or something polymer? I think the .45 ACP gives mor of a push than a snap like the .40.

JR4X
March 22nd, 2009, 04:47 PM
It may be the platform you were using. Is your friends .45 a 1911 style pistol or something polymer? I think the .45 ACP gives mor of a push than a snap like the .40.

Its a "firestorm" 1911. Prolly right my .40 is a taurus arms cast long barrel rip off of the S&W. Could also be that I am an ogre. I cant really tell the diff between the big'ns as long as the handle is long enough for me to hold onto it. My wifes .22 mag kicks like a bastard but I look like king kong trying to hold onto it.

Loki
March 22nd, 2009, 09:44 PM
That's true but IMO you can have too many calibers. Fewer calibers = better.

I was starting to think that way, That I should consolidate and pick two Handgun calibers, sell the rest of the weapons and buy just those two. However, looking at store shelves lately, Its nice to be able to pick up some of whatever they have on hand, because I have a weapon in the safe to shoot it...

JMHO.

Pilot
March 23rd, 2009, 11:26 AM
Damn, thinking about it, I do errr, I mean I did have a lot of handgun calibers. 9MM, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .38/.357, .22LR, .380, 9MM Makarov, 7.65 French Long. No .40 though.

kmon35
March 23rd, 2009, 06:06 PM
Pilot, sounds like you need a .40.

Still waiting on funds.

Loki
March 23rd, 2009, 07:08 PM
Damn, thinking about it, I do errr, I mean I did have a lot of handgun calibers. 9MM, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .38/.357, .22LR, .380, 9MM Makarov, 7.65 French Long. No .40 though.

What no 44mag? :shrug: