Trail closing off of Mt Herman rd

[71cruiser]

Did anybody catch this on the news last night? i caught the very end of it and am not sure which trail/road it was.

[71cruiser]

here's a link to the story
http://www.koaa.com/news/view.asp?ID=2568
Sounds like left hand but on a differant scale. Instead of finding a trail to match thier vechicels they made new trails.

[jeepinaround]

Well as usual the Colorado Springs Independent has stepped up and ran a story on something that I disagree with, as I do pretty much anything they write. Of course it is about the Mt Herman Rd. closure and pretty biased, although I do have to give theem credit for talking with, and quoting, Don Groccia the Sothern District VP. Warning very long article.

http://www.csindy.com/csindy/current/cover.html

[TJRoller]

That used to be my back yard... Literally... That totally sucks. More than likely*, it's locals from the monument area.

[nord]

<sorry for the long post>

This closure is entirely a forest service action. The closed road is 322a from Mt Herman to 322. You can still access 322 from Rampart Range Road. It was closed with posts and gaurdrail, not a gate, if this gives any indication how long it will remain closed.

This is my backyard still, and no, Monument folks had nothing to do with it. It may be oversimplification, but there are two reasons for this and other closures: First, the Forest Service cannot keep up with increased use and more trails, their policies, procedures, and have not changed since the 1940's. So their kneejerk reaction is to close trails and limit use and they fool themselves into thinking their existing ways of policy enforcement will make it all great. Won't work, but we've all seen it.

Second, and I know I'll get flamed for it, but this was, at least in part, closed because of you, me, and every other mechanized and non-mechanized user of the forest not policing ourselves. As a group, we can't allow the careless few to get away with it anymore. It's not just the atv's, crawlers, motorcycles etc roosting, bogging, and climbing hillsides where they shouldn't. It's the skidding mtb's, the horses on muddy trails, and hikers/runners who go around the puddle in the trail making it wider too.

My wife and I run the volunteers for trail maintenance in the Monument Open Space, the no motorized trail system east of Mt Herman surrounding Monument Rock. We are in regular contact with the USFS, Dave Griffith is the current local Pike National Forest Ranger for our small area at least, and likely for the closure area. He basically said that they could not keep up with the couple motorized abusers ruining the wetlands and going off-trail on areas they've tried to reclaim for years now. I don't know him well, he is new. Rick Ellsworth was the prior Ranger, Frank Landis (I believe this is his last name), is the Ranger boss that gets the Rangers up there on Rampart Range Road writing tickets on weekends to ATV's and non-plated vehicles.

These Forest Service folks closed 319 South off Mt Herman too, where it used to access the South Beaver Creek drainage, numerous other pulloffs around Hay Creek, Schubarth, Missouri Gulch, Ice Cave Creek, etc and likely are in the fight to close the Hayman "social" roads and trails.

Yep, I am ride MTB's and don't wheel anymore. And, I happen to co-run a trail maintenence volunteer group that is extremely anti-motorized everything, and will admit I've not locked my hubs for more than pulling a horse trailer up my gravel driveway or for deep snow in years. But I also have been known to point out to members that they used a vehicle to get to the trailhead, and perhaps even there should be motorized access from the front range to the network over the top of the foothills for atv's and non-plated vehicles (this gets a rise out of folks in the room, let me tell you!). I know that "divided we fall", and all trail users have a right to be there regardless of their use.

Some ways to fix it:
All trail users must stay together. If we let them divide us, which is already reality in some cases, then they have won. Unfortunate that this is really the non-motorized crowd fighting the motorized crowd, and not the other way around.

All groups have the few abusers giving the group has a whole a bad name - its those folks we cannot tolerate anymore, and either educate them or kick them out one way or another.

Even though the Forest Service is not working with us, we probably need to work with them, and help them change and mature their organzation to fit with the off-road use rather than change the off-road use to fit their organization.

Volunteer to fix damage (reactive), and start learning damage prevention both in trail building/maintenance and in use of the trail itself.

I don't mean to come off as knowing it all, rather, the more I learn about these issues the pile of things I don't know just gets bigger....so, take this as one more opinion among many,

thanks
jon.

[Jeep TRUCK Thing]

<sorry for the long post>

This closure is entirely a forest service action. The closed road is 322a from Mt Herman to 322. You can still access 322 from Rampart Range Road. It was closed with posts and gaurdrail, not a gate, if this gives any indication how long it will remain closed.

This is my backyard still, and no, Monument folks had nothing to do with it. It may be oversimplification, but there are two reasons for this and other closures: First, the Forest Service cannot keep up with increased use and more trails, their policies, procedures, and have not changed since the 1940's. So their kneejerk reaction is to close trails and limit use and they fool themselves into thinking their existing ways of policy enforcement will make it all great. Won't work, but we've all seen it.

Second, and I know I'll get flamed for it, but this was, at least in part, closed because of you, me, and every other mechanized and non-mechanized user of the forest not policing ourselves. As a group, we can't allow the careless few to get away with it anymore. It's not just the atv's, crawlers, motorcycles etc roosting, bogging, and climbing hillsides where they shouldn't. It's the skidding mtb's, the horses on muddy trails, and hikers/runners who go around the puddle in the trail making it wider too.

My wife and I run the volunteers for trail maintenance in the Monument Open Space, the no motorized trail system east of Mt Herman surrounding Monument Rock. We are in regular contact with the USFS, Dave Griffith is the current local Pike National Forest Ranger for our small area at least, and likely for the closure area. He basically said that they could not keep up with the couple motorized abusers ruining the wetlands and going off-trail on areas they've tried to reclaim for years now. I don't know him well, he is new. Rick Ellsworth was the prior Ranger, Frank Landis (I believe this is his last name), is the Ranger boss that gets the Rangers up there on Rampart Range Road writing tickets on weekends to ATV's and non-plated vehicles.

These Forest Service folks closed 319 South off Mt Herman too, where it used to access the South Beaver Creek drainage, numerous other pulloffs around Hay Creek, Schubarth, Missouri Gulch, Ice Cave Creek, etc and likely are in the fight to close the Hayman "social" roads and trails.

Yep, I am ride MTB's and don't wheel anymore. And, I happen to co-run a trail maintenence volunteer group that is extremely anti-motorized everything, and will admit I've not locked my hubs for more than pulling a horse trailer up my gravel driveway or for deep snow in years. But I also have been known to point out to members that they used a vehicle to get to the trailhead, and perhaps even there should be motorized access from the front range to the network over the top of the foothills for atv's and non-plated vehicles (this gets a rise out of folks in the room, let me tell you!). I know that "divided we fall", and all trail users have a right to be there regardless of their use.

Some ways to fix it:
All trail users must stay together. If we let them divide us, which is already reality in some cases, then they have won. Unfortunate that this is really the non-motorized crowd fighting the motorized crowd, and not the other way around.

All groups have the few abusers giving the group has a whole a bad name - its those folks we cannot tolerate anymore, and either educate them or kick them out one way or another.

Even though the Forest Service is not working with us, we probably need to work with them, and help them change and mature their organzation to fit with the off-road use rather than change the off-road use to fit their organization.

Volunteer to fix damage (reactive), and start learning damage prevention both in trail building/maintenance and in use of the trail itself.

I don't mean to come off as knowing it all, rather, the more I learn about these issues the pile of things I don't know just gets bigger....so, take this as one more opinion among many,

thanks
jon.
The pile of things you don't know doesn't get bigger, you just become aware of more of the things you don't know ;)

I know exactly what you are talking about. I too ride an MTB and I have yet to go on a single ride with any group where someone doesn't start b*tching about 4x4s, ATVs, or dirt bikes, usually triggered by some kind of trash (like a powerbar wrapper) that was more than likely left by another MTBer or a hiker. As a reflex I point out that not alot of motorized recreationists eat powerbars because they love the taste, and then they're quick to point out a cigarette but, or a beer can, or something else that IS more likely to be from a 4x4. You are absolutely right. The problem sweeps across the board. Alot of non-motorized recreationists attack the motorized croud, but not much vise-versa, but we're all part of the problem. Education is the key. We all need to educate and be educated in preserving our trails and open spaces. We see alot of closures and proposed closures, but it's only once in a blue moon that something opens up for use that was previously closed, and even then, it's usually as a private owned pay-per-use off-road park, and those can't compare with the open beauty of our state!

[melsonm]

I occationally drive the trail from Woodland Park to Monument.
Is this the road that closed?
I was planning on taking it tommorow.

M.Melson

[melsonm]

Called the forest service
It's 322a that got closed.
Mt Herman road is 320.
The thru way from Woodland Park to Monument is still open.

M.Melson

[nord]

Hi M.Melson,

You are correct on the closure. You'll see it at a 4-way, a couple miles from Rampart Range and Mt Herman roads. Closed to your left as you head to Monument, open on the right (I believe). I've only see the closure from the Balanced Rock Road side, 322/322a intersection.

jon

[Kirby N.]

I wish they would stop restricting access up there. For as long as I can remember there have been a very select few mountain bikers and hikers who petition to close every single, single track up there. The motorcyclists created 99% of the trails up there and I used to love to ride them before they keept getting closed. It seems that even the most remote trails that could only be accessed by a biker or hiker with a 2 hour drive are getting closed too. Now it is not worth going up there to ride the silly dirt roads that are the only thing open.

It is just dissapointing that the trails that my dad used to ride when he was in high school in the 60s are being closed based on the petition of some selfish users. I agree we all need to stick together by supporting groups like tread lightly and blue ribbon coalition but it seems that hikers and bikers will continue to team up on us fellow users through organizations like the sierra club. What a shame- I hope my kids will be able to enjoy the trails I did in high school- but it looks pretty gloomy.

[70jimmy]

I used to ride this area almost daily on dirt bike. I also remember when the reservoirs above palmer lake were open to vehicular traffic. Some good narrow jeep trails up there too. Hopefully get back up there next summer for some deja vu wheeling.

[Kirby N.]

Good luck. I was up there today. 322 is completely closed from the mount herman side. Looks like there has been alot of maintence because there are new signs at the bottom and almost every side road is either marked with a white arrow (very few and far between) or with a no motor vehicles sign.

[DRIFTINCO]

The more off road trails closed the more there will be "illegal" off roading. I recommend trail be opened and closed on a rotating schedule. That way we have "new" trails and others get a rest for a couple of years.

I am disgusted by people (whatever they ride, walk or drive) who think abusing the landscape is "entertainment" and cool. Since none of us witnessed the "who" any accusations only create polarized ill-will and hard feelings.

I do think that trails that are closed to one segment of the outdoor population must be closed to everyone...hikers too!! Foot traffic creates erosion and soil compaction over time too. Anything short of closing the trail to all public traffic smacks of discrimination.

Anyhow, let's hope we get to drive the trail again in a few years.