just an idea...........

[glstrojan]

i was picking up trash near loch lomond this weekend, and was wondering if this would be a good idea ( i reallllly hate seeing trash in rivers/streams/lakes).................

placing plastic grocery bags in empty milk cartons at or near the ends of trails.

this is something we have in our neighborhood so that people will pick up after their dogs, and it seems to work fairly well.
there have been times when we've been camping, and forget to take a trash bag. and sometimes, things fly around faster than you can retrieve them. having somewhere to throw things away would help solve that problem.
just an idea..........

[Lydia Corsi]

That sounds like a good idea... but I wonder how much it would be utilized. bet that would be something that would probably have to be approved by the forest service since its their "domain" (for lack of a better word) and they would probably have to maintain it or be ulitmately responsible...

I have myself considered taking a trash bag with me every time we go wheeling. The other day at carnage there seemed to be so much garbage lying around. Its too bad not everyone shares the same respect for the trails... :(

[Cresso]

They'd have to hire someone to go around picking up all the full trash bags. That'd be at least a fulltime job. Certainly better than having the trash spread all over the trail, but the FS seems to be on the verge of penniless constantly. There's probably loads of great ideas they can't implement because they don't have the budget to do so.

I take trashbags on every trip I go on and usually end up with a few pieces of trash to take out of the trail. I think this accomplishes the task almost as well with zero additional overhead for the FS.

[glstrojan]

i cant imagine they would care. just notify the forest service that 4wheelers have spray painted milk cartons orange(or whatever color), placed them on trees and filled them with trash bags. the idea is to pack out all of your trash. the bags are just an added convenience for those that don't think about packing their own bags. the forest service would not need to hire someone to pick up trash. we should all be responsible enough to do it on our own. the trash bags around the neighborhood have signs posted explaining the concept of picking up after your pet. we could do the same...........and we don't need to litter the trails (no pun intended) with milk cartons, just strategically place them at popular rest areas, or at the ends of trails.........

[Cresso]

Er, sorry. I didn't explain that very well. I'm referring to the inevitable point where the milk cartons become full. Then what? Expect the fourwheelers to take the bag out themselves? I suspect that most won't do that and those who would, already do in the form of bringing in their own bags to begin with. As I mentioned, it'd be better to have all the trash overflowing in one spot at the trailhead than spread out everywhere, but that still doesn't constitute a clean trail in my mind. They'd probably have to do something a little more permanent, too, like a metal trashcan sunk into a concrete block, like you'd see in a city park or picnic area.

[glstrojan]

better yet: place signs and trash bags at beginning of each trail asking everyone to pick up a bag as they enter, and pack out all of their trash.

[longboy]

Doug, i think glstrojan means to have the containers with empty bags in them to take with you. you then fill up with garbage, and then empty them at the trailhead dumpster (if provided), or take with you in your vehicle to dispose of properly.

the milk cartons would only serve as garbage bag (or grocery bag, or what-have-you) dispenser.

is that what you mean?

[glstrojan]

exactly! use the milk cartons as dispensers. paint them orange so they are visible. get the word out that's what they are there for, ask everyone to pack out their trash and hopefully we can end up with cleaner trails. costs are minimal because you are recycling the milk cartons and used grocery bags. the milk cartons hold the bags well enough that they will not blow out and around the trail, and the bags are easy to grab at. perhaps we can even post wood signs next to the dispensers explaining their purpose. (this is the only thing that would take real effort.) if it works out we can trend this idea across the state, and maybe the whole country. (think BIG!) :D

[KINSPINZ]

As much as i think this is a great idea. i just dont think it would work very well. We all know how the clowns are out there. I almost think it would turn into a trash fest wherever the carton is. people camping will throw all there stuff there. Next thing you know is we got 30 trash bags with no one to pick them up. If all the wheelers were as respectful as us we could say "when full please take with you", and leave another bag. I think the best thing we could do is just make sure we continue to educate the off road, hiking outdoorsman type to" pack it in pack it out". I Myself carry plenty of trash bags with me and if i run out i throw it in the back. i rather have trash all over my truck than all over the trails. Just my opinion.


Mike Kinsey
RMP Trailmaster
KINSPINZ

[glstrojan]

kind of glass half empty, don't you think?
people who are going to litter, are going to litter. this idea was to help those of us who do intend to pack out, but occasionally see something blow in the wind because we don't have anywhere to put it.
but i did post this idea looking for feedback and feasability. hopefully if we brainstorm enough, we can make something work.

[twistedcherokee]

Most people that litter would still litter, and take all the garbage bags home and think, this is so nice for them to offer free garbage bags( as they throw out their wraper through the window). Most people that don't like the littering already pick it up and pack it out. The ones that litter will never stop simply because they judt don't care and to lazy. Or their vehicle is already so full that it just falls out. Great Idea, if it where only a perfect world, but if it where a perfect world, we wouldn't have these problems.

Toby

[longboy]

i think it's a good idea. i've seen how the doggie-pooh bags work in parks and hiking trails, and that's really all this is. sure some people will litter, but the people interested in keeping the wilderness clean are the kind of people that will also take one of these bags, fill it up with garbage, and haul it away with them and dispose of it when they can.

[KINSPINZ]

But you cannot relate the City with the Mountains. They have trash cans and pick ups. If we can get a sceduled Trash run this wouldnt be a problem but getting the forest service to do that is unreal. I still dont understand why you cant pack it in and pack it out. why do you need a trash can? dont get me wrong im not trying to battle you on this just making sure we do it right.

[longboy]

But you cannot relate the City with the Mountains. They have trash cans and pick ups. If we can get a sceduled Trash run this wouldnt be a problem but getting the forest service to do that is unreal. I still dont understand why you cant pack it in and pack it out. why do you need a trash can? dont get me wrong im not trying to battle you on this just making sure we do it right.

we're not providing a trash can, and we're not asking the FS to take our garbage out. we're helping people 'pack it in, and pack it out' by supplying them a bag to make it more convenient. i'd like to see this attempted, i really think it would help out a bit.

believe me, i'm on your side. i pack out everything i pack in. i also bring garbage bags with me on the trail, and i throw it in my Jeep and trash it when i get home. this is for people who don't bring a bag, or forgot one.

[KINSPINZ]

Oh Wow longboy, i completely misunderstood you. So you are saying you are just giving them the bag like the dog things. Great idea. why couldnt we build these dispensors.

[longboy]

i was starting to wonder if you were disagreeing with me just to get me all riled up :D

yup, just a bag like the dog things. :)

[Bustin' Loose]

I think it's a good idea but I'm not sure how much it'll get used. Most of the people who would use it, already pack in/pack out and/or pack trash bags in their jeeps.

Those that don't already, won't care that we make it easier for them to pick up trash they see and pack out the trash they bring in.

[glstrojan]

Most of the people who would use it, already pack in/pack out and/or pack trash bags in their jeeps.

Those that don't already, won't care that we make it easier for them to pick up trash they see and pack out the trash they bring in.

but haven't you ever filled your own trash bag, then noticed something wlse to pick up? or forgotten your trash bag?

[glstrojan]

Oh Wow longboy, i completely misunderstood you. So you are saying you are just giving them the bag like the dog things. Great idea. why couldnt we build these dispensors.
wasn't this said in the original post? :rolleyes: i think he was trying to get us both riled up. ;)

[KINSPINZ]

wasn't this said in the original post? :rolleyes: i think he was trying to get us both riled up. ;)

Guys, guys im sorry. Its friday thank gosh, anyway if anything this will look very good. we will even say something like "placed here by colorado4x4.org".

[glstrojan]

i think the cheapest/easiest way to make it work is to:
- let the FS know what we are doing so they don't tear down the orange milk cartons
- Spread the word
- post a small laminated sign to each carton with instructions and "sponsored by..."

[Cresso]

I still see a couple potential problems:

1) I still think the people who tend to clean up as they drive will already have bags with them.

2) I think there are people who take advantage of things like this and the more they feel they can get away with it, the more they'll try it. I.e. stealing baggies from a more populated park is one thing. Stealing all the bags and/or ripping off/shooting the dispenser on a remote trail is something else. Call me cynical, but I've seen OHVers do that and worse in the past.

3) Who pays for the bags and who checks them routinely to keep the dispensers stocked? This service has a pricetag attached to it and I honestly don't think the forest service can afford ANYthing more than what they have on their plate now. If some clubs wanna chip and buy the bags and patrol them routinely, this may be moot.

4) How do you intend to "Spread the word"? There are very few ways that are effective and don't cost money.

Bear in mind that it's much easier to shoot down an idea than it is to come up with it, so take all this with a grain of salt. I personally won't ever need to use this service and I don't feel that it's time or money well spent, but I certainly support the effort. Anything done to improve our trails is a good thing.

[KINSPINZ]

I still see a couple potential problems:

1) I still think the people who tend to clean up as they drive will already have bags with them.

2) I think there are people who take advantage of things like this and the more they feel they can get away with it, the more they'll try it. I.e. stealing baggies from a more populated park is one thing. Stealing all the bags and/or ripping off/shooting the dispenser on a remote trail is something else. Call me cynical, but I've seen OHVers do that and worse in the past.

3) Who pays for the bags and who checks them routinely to keep the dispensers stocked? This service has a pricetag attached to it and I honestly don't think the forest service can afford ANYthing more than what they have on their plate now. If some clubs wanna chip and buy the bags and patrol them routinely, this may be moot.

4) How do you intend to "Spread the word"? There are very few ways that are effective and don't cost money.

Bear in mind that it's much easier to shoot down an idea than it is to come up with it, so take all this with a grain of salt. I personally won't ever need to use this service and I don't feel that it's time or money well spent, but I certainly support the effort. Anything done to improve our trails is a good thing.

So after reading this post by Cresso, do you think it is worth it.

[glstrojan]

1. good for them. if we can add one more person to that list of people who already pick up, then good for us.

2. Death to all quad runners! lol I'm not sure why someone would steal recycled grocery bags, but more power to them. I can believe, someone might take target practice on our containers, but these are the same people that are going to shoot at forest service signs, empty beer cans (then leave them), call their dad "uncle."

3. the bags are free and recycled. the two best things about this project. the forest service should not have to get involved. this is strictly a volunteer project. we make it work.

4. spread the word thru this, and other forums. spread the word on the trail. tell a friend. this is a volunteer, low budget project. it may or may not work, but it's free.

this is simply a way to tell people to:
"give a hoot, don't polute"
-woodsy the owl

[tom.keyes]

What ever is made it should be bullet proof!