Purchasing a new SUV

[TJeeper]

I'm in the market for a new full size SUV. I figure now is the perfect time for it. Sales are down, gas is $4/gallon, it is the end of the model year, and manufacturers are offering large rebates. So I do my research, find out what I want and start shopping. There are a couple hundred of these vehicles in the Denver metro area, most dealers have 20-40 sitting on their lot. But what I am finding is no one is really interested in selling me one at a good price. I'm not talking about taking a loss, just not as high as a profit as they are used to. I have read on various forums people getting 10k-13k off MSRP around the country, yet I can't get anyone to go below ~5k, or around invoice, which is including the manufacturer's rebate. I keep reading how sales keep falling, I would think someone would be motivated enough to sell me a vehicle just to get it off the lot. Apparently not. What am I missing?

[Colo.TJ]

Got me. I would think they would be having a fire sale on that type of vehicle.

[Budman]

I'm in the market for a new full size SUV. I figure now is the perfect time for it. Sales are down, gas is $4/gallon, it is the end of the model year, and manufacturers are offering large rebates. So I do my research, find out what I want and start shopping. There are a couple hundred of these vehicles in the Denver metro area, most dealers have 20-40 sitting on their lot. But what I am finding is no one is really interested in selling me one at a good price. I'm not talking about taking a loss, just not as high as a profit as they are used to. I have read on various forums people getting 10k-13k off MSRP around the country, yet I can't get anyone to go below ~5k, or around invoice, which is including the manufacturer's rebate. I keep reading how sales keep falling, I would think someone would be motivated enough to sell me a vehicle just to get it off the lot. Apparently not. What am I missing?


What model are you looking for? Try one of the smaller towns away from Denver. I went looking at Dodge diesels while I was on leave, and they were begging me to take one off the lot.

[MountainJeep]

why buy new? I think lots of people are trying to unload vehicles that are only year or two old.

[Hippie]

If I were looking, 10-13K off, I would be flying to one of those towns for a mini vacation

[Big Dave]

There usually isn't 10-13k in profit on a vehicle, so that's why you're only getting 5k off MSRP. Also every situation is unique when buying a car. If they traded in a car, and a dealer stole their trade-in from the customer, it's very easy to show a 10-13k discount on the new car.

[Suki]

I just saw a commercial for the a Go Dealership, or maybe it's all Go Dealerships, that for this weekend they are knocking off 50% MSRP.

[Big Dave]

I just saw a commercial for the a Go Dealership, or maybe it's all Go Dealerships, that for this weekend they are knocking off 50% MSRP.

On used vehicles maybe, impossible on new vehicles.

[Eryl Flynn]

Why bother with the dealers if you know what you want. Hit an autobroker, that is what I did. The one I use gets you 675 over invoice and he will explain what the 675 is for. No haggling or arguments, and can even bring it to you. If you want name and info PM me. But either way, don't go to the dealer for a new car. Get a broker to do the work you won't regret it.

[Colo.TJ]

Centennial leasing and sales are great brokers. Call up Patrick.

[Suki]

On used vehicles maybe, impossible on new vehicles.

Dunno if it was new or used, I just caught the end of it and they had a SUV listed at like $34k and some change, but marked down to $17k and some change. I'm sure there are some serious guidelines, but worth checking out regardless.

[jeephabit3]

What type of vehicle are you looking for? My ex-wife is trying to sell a 2006 F-150 SuperCrew with very low miles. It has a 6yr/100k extended warranty on it which should be transferable. She is trying to get around 20k for it. PM me if you would like her contact info.

[Malamute]

Dunno if it was new or used, I just caught the end of it and they had a SUV listed at like $34k and some change, but marked down to $17k and some change. I'm sure there are some serious guidelines, but worth checking out regardless.


It was used cars. They were showing MSRP when the car was new and what they're selling for now. Just a marketing ploy is all.

[TJeeper]

I'd rather not say what vehicle it is, I've been trading emails with salesmen, some have been taking it personally. I don't want to start a public debate about it.

I've been able to negotiate below invoice, but that is because of heavy factory rebates. Basically we are getting into the dealer holdback, which of course the consumer doesn't know. The people who have gotten 10k-13K off, I don't know their situations, or their dealers, but it was for straight up sales, no trade ins. That makes me wonder how much profit is left in the dealer holdback.

One guy got really pissed off and said some unprofessional comments. I was really taken aback. My neighbors are in the market for a new Highlander Hybrid. They were told there is no negotiation off MSRP. They didn't start whining and calling the salesman names. Supply and demand, they understand that. The vehicle I am looking at has has lots of supply and no demand. They are sitting on dealer's lots for months at a time. I'm just trying to negotiate the best deal I can because as soon as I drive it off the lot, the value of the vehicle will plummet. I will be upside down in the loan for most of the loan period. I will never be able to sell it without taking a loss. I understand that. It is just bizarre that I can't get someone to sell me a vehicle at a lower profit than they expect, especially if it will help reduce their inventory and reduce their overhead costs. Next week is the last week of the month. I don't know if dealers have quotas, but maybe something will come up.

[Big Dave]

Centennial leasing and sales are great brokers. Call up Patrick.


x2

Call them up, and ditch the attitude and expectations that a dealer HAS to give you a great deal just cuz they have a lot of cars on their lot. From what I remember of my days selling cars, there's a fair amount of time that the dealer has before they actually start paying any interest on those cars, so they may not be in a rush to sell them.

[mkbruin]

Someone I know just bought a new Nissan Titan a week or two ago, here's how the deal was structured:

$29255 MSRP
-2820 MSRP to invoice
-1000 Nissan bonus cash, 7/4-7/7
-1500 conquest bonus (own another pickup from another manufacturer)
-5000 dealer cash from Nissan
-5000 rebate

$13935 net cost

[starbreaker666]

I'd rather not say what vehicle it is, I've been trading emails with salesmen, some have been taking it personally. I don't want to start a public debate about it.

I've been able to negotiate below invoice, but that is because of heavy factory rebates. Basically we are getting into the dealer holdback, which of course the consumer doesn't know. The people who have gotten 10k-13K off, I don't know their situations, or their dealers, but it was for straight up sales, no trade ins. That makes me wonder how much profit is left in the dealer holdback.

One guy got really pissed off and said some unprofessional comments. I was really taken aback. My neighbors are in the market for a new Highlander Hybrid. They were told there is no negotiation off MSRP. They didn't start whining and calling the salesman names. Supply and demand, they understand that. The vehicle I am looking at has has lots of supply and no demand. They are sitting on dealer's lots for months at a time. I'm just trying to negotiate the best deal I can because as soon as I drive it off the lot, the value of the vehicle will plummet. I will be upside down in the loan for most of the loan period. I will never be able to sell it without taking a loss. I understand that. It is just bizarre that I can't get someone to sell me a vehicle at a lower profit than they expect, especially if it will help reduce their inventory and reduce their overhead costs. Next week is the last week of the month. I don't know if dealers have quotas, but maybe something will come up.

Wait wait wait.. Did you just say you DON'T want to make this a public debate? On THIS board? BWahaha... Try a small town dealer. They work with customers MUCH more then this towny snobs. Public debate..hahah thats a good one.

[Budman]

There usually isn't 10-13k in profit on a vehicle, so that's why you're only getting 5k off MSRP. Also every situation is unique when buying a car. If they traded in a car, and a dealer stole their trade-in from the customer, it's very easy to show a 10-13k discount on the new car.

On used vehicles maybe, impossible on new vehicles.

Big dave, you might want to check around a little bit. Dodge is offering $12,500 off of new half ton trucks right off the bat. They will continue to come down from there too if you work with them. Want a durango? they offer that much or more off. There may not be that much profit in one, but the dealers are realists. There is no profit in a car that sits on your lot for the next year and does not sell. It may not be about profit now, but mitigating losses.

[Big Dave]

So they mark up MSRP to give bigger discounts. I'll gladly give you $25,000 off a new washer and dryer, but let me mark the price up first. The discount itself doesn't mean a damn thing, the only thing that matters is the price you actually pay.

[Budman]

Got it, sorry I forgot I was dealing with an expert.

[Friscokidd]

the 10k - 13k is for specific units only. There might be 3 cars/trucks on the lot that no one has even looked at and thats the ones that they can offer that much off of. ALTHOUGH, there are some where they do jack up the MSRP so they can "sell ya" 10k off msrp price, when in real life, the msrp was already 12k lower.

yes it has been covered and said, but im bord hear at work and just wanted to throw my 2 cents in :D

[Big Dave]

Never claimed to be an expert, simply stating my knowledge of what's going on based on my time in the industry.

[Budman]

Tell you guys what. Why don't you go into Perkins dodge and ask them which New half ton trucks they will give you 12000 off of. I willl bet you a round of beers that it is all of them. As for the marked up MSRP, Thier MSRP is the same as any other dealer around, and the same as online. But I am done argueing about this. Go do some checking, you will be suprised.

[Big Dave]

Dunno if this is the case or not, but it wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer has upped MSRP without changing the dealer's cost of an item so they can offer bigger discounts, yet still sell the item for what they were before, but now they sell more of them because it's "on sale."

[Suki]

It was used cars. They were showing MSRP when the car was new and what they're selling for now. Just a marketing ploy is all.

sneaky, sneaky!!! :tisk:

Oh well like i said, i caught the end of the commercial and when I tried going online I couldn't find anything about it so not sure if it's just a local thing, one dealership or all go dealerships.

[Jake_Blues]

Edmunds.com will show you the invoice price and all promos (cash back, etc) available.

If you're trying to keep all incentives and get less than invoice price, why would they sell you a car at a loss?

You *might* get them to take a small loss if you're trying to buy a vehicle that has been around for a long time (check build dates of cars on lot by VIN if you find one you think has been sitting around a long time), or if a vehicle has some particularly unpopular color or option package. Certainly not thousands of dollars of loss though.

Look up the invoice price of the vehicle you want to buy, find out what incentives are being offered, and do the math. Some manufacturers don't do holdback (mostly European ones), so you may not be able to get it for invoice, but you should get close!

-E

[bigassyukon]

Well, if you get one, get a Yukon :)

[J Kimmel]

Someone I know just bought a new Nissan Titan a week or two ago, here's how the deal was structured:

$29255 MSRP
-2820 MSRP to invoice
-1000 Nissan bonus cash, 7/4-7/7
-1500 conquest bonus (own another pickup from another manufacturer)
-5000 dealer cash from Nissan
-5000 rebate

$13935 net cost


I'd love to see that deal :)

if you want to save a ton of cash, get a used 07-08, thats where the deals really are ;)

[Stumpalump]

I'd love to see that deal :)

if you want to save a ton of cash, get a used 07-08, thats where the deals really are ;)

Thats what I was thinking. Ford just anounced their largest loss ever. I'd hit them with 1/2 of MSRP. Sit down with the salesmen and hand him a few thousand cash down then tell him to tell his boss to sell the truck for your offer or bring back the cash. Dealers hate to bring cash back to the table when they are so close. I'd go during miday workweek so they can call a big decision maker if they have to. Try to find one thats been on the lot a couple of months also because the dealer is paying intrest at that point and a cheap sale will at least stop the bleeding. The best deals are on 60K trucks that are a year old and traded in for smaller vehicles. They can't give them away. My bud was at action and said Jeep Comanders with under 20K miles were going for 7-9K last month.

[J Kimmel]

not that low :)

[mkbruin]

the 10k - 13k is for specific units only. There might be 3 cars/trucks on the lot that no one has even looked at and thats the ones that they can offer that much off of.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/05/get-em-while-theyre-not-hot-dodge-rams-going-for-13k-below-m/

A tight credit market, slumping construction, an economy on bed rest, an end-of-model year, and high gas prices mean one thing for pickup trucks: lots of brand new trucks waiting for buyers. Dealers trying to shift their 2008 Dodge Rams before the 2009s arrive are taking as much as $13,000 off the bill to try and convince buyers to come forth. That means you can get a Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab SLT 4x2 for $19,995, instead of $32,795.

With consumers being more picky about what and when they buy, it also doesn't help that dealers really don't want trade-in trucks either, since they can't do anything with them. What Dodge dealers hope for now is that Chrysler will manage the build-out of the 2009 models to give them a chance to get rid of the 2008s. Chrysler says it has a plan that will keep it competitive and keep the changeover orderly. For now, the Ram is the most heavily discounted vehicle out there.

For a dealer in Ohio, the matter of 120-day inventories really comes down to gas prices. "Until we get gas under three bucks a gallon," he said, "these pickups are not going to move." We're sure that no one wants that to be true, because if it is, there will be brand new 2008 Rams on showroom lots for a long time.


In the case of the Ram, you have over a half-year's supply of the current body style, with the completely revised models coming out soon. Dodge has already delayed job 1 for the new trucks to further reduce 07/08 inventory before ramping up the 09's.

Yes. Almost any Ram will be 10-15k off. Ford is running into a similar problem with the F150. The Titan/Armada has really slow sales. and on and on and on....

[Budman]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/05/get-em-while-theyre-not-hot-dodge-rams-going-for-13k-below-m/




In the case of the Ram, you have over a half-year's supply of the current body style, with the completely revised models coming out soon. Dodge has already delayed job 1 for the new trucks to further reduce 07/08 inventory before ramping up the 09's.

Yes. Almost any Ram will be 10-15k off. Ford is running into a similar problem with the F150. The Titan/Armada has really slow sales. and on and on and on....


Can't be true. They must be marking them up first. It just has to be because people who have worked in the industry have said that they can't possibly sell them for that low.


BTW: thanks for doing the research I did not have time to.

[mkbruin]

That's right. A ram that cost $21,990 MSRP in 2007 now has an MSRP of $32,000, just so they can mark it down.....

except thats not the case. and sometimes a discount really is just a discount in order to move old product to make way for the new.

[Big Dave]

Excuse me for being a bit skeptical of the deals mentioned. :rolleyes:

And the OP was looking for an SUV, not a 1/2 ton pickup.

[mkbruin]

Excuse me for being a bit skeptical of the deals mentioned. :rolleyes:

And the OP was looking for an SUV, not a 1/2 ton pickup.

ok... going back to the OP:

what are we looking for? CUV or body on frame? Midsize or fullsize? I4, v6, or v8? brand preference? price range? $15k-30k? $25k-40k? $40k+?

There are ~50 SUV's on the market right now, and without additional information, we have no way to narrow this down.

But just because you don't believe there is big money available to move these, doesn't make it true... the money is out there, many times customers need to know about it and ask about it.

[CSP]

I'm in the market for a new full size SUV.

First line of the thread.

[Big Dave]

But just because you don't believe there is big money available to move these, doesn't make it true... the money is out there, many times customers need to know about it and ask about it.

There is money out there to move these, I don't doubt that at all. My only real point is that the money has to come from somewhere. After manufacturer kickbacks and rebates, yes it is pretty easy to buy a car for several thousand below invoice. But if the rebates on the model you're looking at are only $5,000, expecting to buy the car for much more than that under invoice is unrealistic. And manufacturer rebates are typically just a gimmick to get people to think they're getting a deal. Let's take 2 scenarios. Scenario 1, customer walks onto the lot, sees car XYZ with a certain option package for $35,000 MSRP, but they can buy it for $27,000 after a $5,000 manufacturer rebate and a $3,000 discount from the dealer. Scenario 2, it's an identical car, but MSRP is only $30,000 with no rebate. Customer can still buy the car for $27,000 after dealer discount. Your average consumer will buy into the marketing ploy and think they're getting a better deal on Scenario 1 when in reality the true cost of the car is identical (depending on taxes and how they're calculated based on how the rebate is determined, in some cases scenario 2 could actually be cheaper). If you had the option to buy a car with a perceived value of $35,000 for $27k, or a car with a perceived value of $30k for $27k, which would you buy?

The American buying public as a whole is pretty stupid, and will fall for big discount gimmicks, even when the price they're paying is the same as it was before the discount gimmicks. And it's not like car dealers have an excellent reputation with truth and disclosure in advertising either, so I think my apprehension towards the validity of some of the deals mentioned would be understandable.

[mkbruin]

First line of the thread.

Ok.

Audi Q7
Cadillac Escalade
Cadillac Escalade ESV
Cadillac Escalade EXT
Cadillac SRX
Chevy Tahoe
Chevy Suburban
Chevy Avalanche
Chrysler Aspen
Dodge Durango
Ford Expedition
Ford Expedition EL
GMC Yukon
GMC Yukon XL
Hummer H2
Infinity QX56
Lincoln Navigator
Lincoln Navigator L
Mazda CX9
Mercedes Benz GL
Nissan Armada
Toyota Sequoia

Base MSRP ranging from $27k (durango) to $62k (Escalade ESV)

Durango:
$4500 Cash to Customer start: 07/01/2008 end: 07/31/2008
$400 Cash to Dealer
MSRP $27,335 Invoice $25,098

Aspen:
MSRP $32,905 Invoice $30,080
Same as Durango.

H2:
MSRP $57,425 Invoice $53,118
Rebate $8000 Cash to Customer
Financing: 0.00% for 36, 48, 60, or 72 months.

Tahoe:
MSRP $34,630 Invoice $31,686
$2000 Cash to Customer
$4000 Cash to Customer
APR: $2000 Customer Cash may not be combined with 2.9% - 6.9% APR. (no restriction on $4k)

Expedition:
MSRP $31,345 Invoice $28,980
$3000 Cash to Customer
$500 Cash to Customer
$750 Cash to Customer
$500 Cash to Dealer

Armada:
MSRP $35,500 Invoice $32,325
$5000 Cash to Customer
$5000 Conquest

[TJeeper]

This is what we ended up with:

http://spot.colorado.edu/~davisp/tow.jpg

A friend let me borrow his trailer and we took my Jeep on vacation. I was very impressed how well it towed. We went down 285 to Fairplay and I was able to maintain the speed limit over the passes (even passing cars that were not going the speed limit). We came back on I-70 and I was able to keep it at 65mph going up towards Eisenhower tunnel. It averaged 11.7 mpg for the trip. So far we have been very pleased with the vehicle.

[Big Dave]

WTF is it??

[longboy]

Looks like a Sequoia to me, not certain-

[TJeeper]

Looks like a Sequoia to me, not certain-

Bingo.

[Pilot]

WTF is it??

A Korando?





:flipoff2: