We like torture

[Gags]

— The number of Americans who would condone torture, at least when used on terrorists in order to save lives, has risen over the past two years and now stands at over 40 percent, according to a new opinion poll.

The poll released by WorldPublicOpinion.org, a project managed by the University of Maryland, found that a narrow majority of Americans -- 53 percent -- think all torture should be banned.

But 31 percent would accept it in terrorism cases to save innocent lives and a further 13 percent said it should be allowed in other circumstances as well, the nationwide poll of 1,309 people found. The remaining 3 percent did not know or did not answer. The margin of error was 3.3 percent.

WorldPublicOpinion said a 2006 poll found that 36 percent of Americans would accept torture in terrorism or other cases, compared with 44 percent now.

The latest poll was part of an international survey of public attitudes to torture, which found that 57 percent of respondents in 19 countries opposed it under all circumstances. But in India, Nigeria, Turkey and South Korea, a majority agreed with torture at least in some cases.

The findings were issued at the United Nations ahead of International Victims of Torture Day on Thursday.

The issue is controversial in the United States because of reports of tough questioning of terrorism suspects at U.S. detention centers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

President George W. Bush has said the United States does not practice torture. But the Central Intelligence Agency has admitted using "waterboarding," a form of simulated drowning, and a recent Justice Department probe cited cases of sleep disruption, "short shackling" and other physical techniques.

People polled were asked to comment on the statement: "Terrorists pose such an extreme threat that governments should now be allowed to use some degree of torture if it may gain information that would save innocent lives."

STREAM OF REPORTS

WorldPublicOpinion had little explanation for the apparent rise in U.S. public tolerance for torture except to say that "the U.S. public receives a steady stream of news reports about terrorist attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan."

In other countries, it said, events in the past 18 months may have influenced the public. There had been attacks by Kashmiri separatists in India and Kurdish separatists in Turkey, while two South Korean aid workers had been kidnapped and killed by Taliban rebels in Afghanistan.

But Steve Kull of WorldPublicOpinion told a U.N. news conference on Tuesday that "the Bush administration taking the position in defense of waterboarding ... I think probably has contributed to some extent to a weakening of the norm globally."

Yvonne Terlingen, U.N. representative of rights group Amnesty International, told the news conference, "The role played by the United States in undermining the universal prohibition on torture cannot be underestimated."

U.S. mission spokesman Richard Grenell dismissed the claim, saying Terlingen "knows the United States does not torture. The American men and women who protect us deserve our support."

Some 145 of the 192 U.N. member states are parties to a 1985 U.N. convention banning torture. But Amnesty says a majority of states either practice it secretly or are complicit in it by sending people back to countries where they know they will be tortured.

India, which had the highest percentage -- 59 percent -- of people condoning torture for one reason or another, has signed but not ratified the convention.

Terlingen said it was "really shocking" that overall in the 19 countries polled as few as 57 percent opposed torture.

[JKTODD]

Wonder if they had the poll in San Fran?

[Yota]

The key is what people define as "torture."

They've redefined that term over the years to mean anything that makes criminal sad or miss his mommy. Eff that. John McCain should be able tell us what real torture is and is not. But he's too wrapped up in the emotion of the issue.

He says torture doesn't work. Well waterboarding works so maybe waterboarding isn't torture.

[Budman]

Waterboarding IS NOT TORTURE. that is all.

[Gags]

Waterboarding IS NOT TORTURE. that is all.

From what I understand its just uncomfortable...Did people die from it?

[Gags]

There's a big difference between torture and hazing, IMO.

[Budman]

No one I know died from it.

[Jake_Blues]

Try this poll:

How many people support Iraqi resistance members capturing and torturing US troops?

-E

[Budman]

Try this poll:

How many people support Iraqi resistance members capturing and torturing US troops?

-E

They would if they could.

ETA: and If I were captured by the enemy, I would be really glad if the worst they did was waterboard me.

[Jake_Blues]

They would if they could.

ETA: and If I were captured by the enemy, I would be really glad if the worst they did was waterboard me.

All true, but it doesn't answer the question.

-E

[Budman]

The question is irrelevent. The truth is that no matter what we think they will torture anyone they catch.

[newracer]

Try this poll:

How many people support Iraqi resistance members capturing and torturing US troops?

-E
I don't support it but I realize it happens. Also torture is better than decapitation.

[Yota]

They would if they could.

ETA: and If I were captured by the enemy, I would be really glad if the worst they did was waterboard me.

All true, but it doesn't answer the question.

-E

Yes it does answer the question.

Waterboarding is not on the same moral plane as real torture that results in massive pain and injury.

And you also make the assumption that those criminals have any kind of moral compass in the first place.

[Clint]

Torture gets sh*t done.

[Yota]

Torture gets sh*t done.

Fact! (http://www.notrly.com/jackbauer/index.php?topthirty)

[shunt]

This is complete BS..... We should treat captured combatants just like ours are treated.....



I'm sick of the pussification of this country........:rant:

[Clint]

This is complete BS..... We should treat captured combatants just like ours are treated.....



I'm sick of the pussification of this country........:rant:

x2

[Waifer2112]

This is complete BS..... We should treat captured combatants just like ours are treated.....



I'm sick of the pussification of this country........:rant:

Absolutely!! I love the idea of us sinking to their level. Why, that makes us just like.....them! :thumbsdown:

[Clint]

Absolutely!! I love the idea of us sinking to their level. Why, that makes us just like.....them! :thumbsdown:

What gives them a pass in a time of war? If we capture them when they are trying to KILL us, why should they get anything but hell?

Yup, just like them......:rolleyes:

We sneak into other countries, take down their buildings and kill their innocents, drag their troops through city streets, bomb their ships....yup.

[TwoDogs]

I like bacon... That is all. :D

[Sound_Man]

Ask the friends and relatives of just these two what they think.
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/03/16/danielpearl_narrowweb__300x423,0.jpg
http://prisonplanet.tv/images/may2004/150504bergwatson.jpg





Our soldiers, men and women alike are tortured when captured.

If getting information that will save 1 life requires that some things happen behind closed doors then so be it. If it bothers you that there are men and women that are capable of doing these things then don't open those doors. War is not for the faint of heart. I am not condoning torture but how can it be ok to do anything within your power one minute to kill someone and then you can't hit them in the shins with a crowbar the next?

Sure we have agreed to the Geneva Conventions and the articles of war/UCMJ. So that makes us better than those that we are fighting against for some reason. Well, guess what? The people we are fighting didn't sign it so why should we abide by it?

[1BGDOG]

Fact! (http://www.notrly.com/jackbauer/index.php?topthirty)

Jack Bauer can torture you into giving up information you do not possess.

[ironpiggie]

I'm sick of the pussification of this country........:rant:

x2

[Gags]

Look, condoning real torture is not something we are about. It pulls at the moral fibers of our Nation and brings us down to become what we have beheld. Tough measures are fine. However, it is a slippery slope. Now, would I personally torture people for certain reasons...Maybe, however, I don't it to be policy. For me the torture would be about payback rather than information gathering.

[JKTODD]

The general populace does not have the NEED to know.....That is all.

[ZappBranigan]

The general populace does not WANT to know.....That is all.

Fixed it for ya...;)

[Dagimp]

Anyone who thinks that because I dont believe in their imaginary friend I should die?

I think we should do a lot worse than torture to them, and I'd like to volunteer.

[scottycards]

Ask the friends and relatives of just these two what they think.

You had to go there?

Well, here's what Nick Berg's dad thinks:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Father of Nick Berg Blasts Bush-Cheney Administration
by William Hughes


JUNE 7, 2004--On Saturday, June 5, 2004, standing only a block away from the White House on a rainy, cool afternoon, in Washington, DC, Michael Berg accused the Bush-Cheney administration of being substantially responsible for the death of his son, Nick Berg, age 26.
Nick Berg's body was found on May 8, just outside of the war-ravaged city of Baghdad. A native of West Chester, Pennsylvania, he was in Iraq as a freelance contractor.

At a vocal anti-Iraq War rally in front of Lafayette Park, just north of the presidential mansion, Michael Berg said, "I have to hold the Bush administration accountable for denying my son his Constitutional rights for 13 days of his illegal detention [by the US while in Iraq]. If they were going to take illegal action, instead of violating the heart of the Constitution of the United States of America--why didn't they just illegally deport him from Iraq to let us prove who he was at home?"


...Michael Berg accused the Bush-Cheney administration of being substantially responsible for the death of his son, Nick Berg....

Michael Berg continued, "Their callous behavior, in effect, 'tied him to the track' until it was no longer possible for him to escape that speeding 'hate train.' I don't expect the men who ran the 'hate train' to take responsibility for their actions. And I don't expect the Bush Administration will change its policies to do its part to make the 'hate train' into a 'peace train'."


More here:

http://baltimorechronicle.com/060804Hughes.shtml

Sorry for the hijack.

[Clint]

You had to go there?

Well, here's what Nick Berg's dad thinks:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Father of Nick Berg Blasts Bush-Cheney Administration
by William Hughes


JUNE 7, 2004--On Saturday, June 5, 2004, standing only a block away from the White House on a rainy, cool afternoon, in Washington, DC, Michael Berg accused the Bush-Cheney administration of being substantially responsible for the death of his son, Nick Berg, age 26.
Nick Berg's body was found on May 8, just outside of the war-ravaged city of Baghdad. A native of West Chester, Pennsylvania, he was in Iraq as a freelance contractor.

At a vocal anti-Iraq War rally in front of Lafayette Park, just north of the presidential mansion, Michael Berg said, "I have to hold the Bush administration accountable for denying my son his Constitutional rights for 13 days of his illegal detention [by the US while in Iraq]. If they were going to take illegal action, instead of violating the heart of the Constitution of the United States of America--why didn't they just illegally deport him from Iraq to let us prove who he was at home?"


...Michael Berg accused the Bush-Cheney administration of being substantially responsible for the death of his son, Nick Berg....

Michael Berg continued, "Their callous behavior, in effect, 'tied him to the track' until it was no longer possible for him to escape that speeding 'hate train.' I don't expect the men who ran the 'hate train' to take responsibility for their actions. And I don't expect the Bush Administration will change its policies to do its part to make the 'hate train' into a 'peace train'."


More here:

http://baltimorechronicle.com/060804Hughes.shtml

Sorry for the hijack.


The only person responsible for Nick Berg being dead is Nick Berg.

Huge reach Scotty, HUGE.

[scottycards]

Soundman asked what the realtives of Nick Berg thought.

I provided a very clear answer.

I'm not reading anything into it, other than answering what soundman asked.

Not reaching at all. Not placing blame, nothing.

[colombiapunk]

War is war. BOTH sides are doing what they can to beat the other, BOTH sides are killing civilians and knocking down buildings (that's all part of war). This effort to civilize war in my eyes is futile (and just plain stupid). When lives are at stake people will do what they need to to survive, or on a grander scale to ensure security for their country (which usually means attacking and defeating the enemy (sometimes on their own turf)). Can't blame them for trying or doing what they are doing, and I can't blame us for doing it back, and hopefully better. We'll do it whether it's legal or not, we'll just bury it if it's not legal anymore. Who cares, these detainees in guantanamo would have been killed on scene if they weren't useful for information.

I say quit with all the trials and legal actions. If you are captured you should simply thank your lucky stars you're not dead. And if you can't take the torture than find a way to kill yourself, they wouldn't have taken you alive if they weren't going to pry information out of you. That goes for both sides and all sides of any war as far as I'm concerned.

It's not stooping to any level. It's simply fighting a war. The same way America and the rest of the world has been fighting wars since the first conflict started amongst geico spokesmen