School me on Cafe Racers.

[Ghettojeep]

So I've had a few dual sports, grew up riding dirt bikes, have some saddle time on friends rockets, and ridden my pop's hogs a bunch, a custom FXR Lowrider and a couple Heritage Soft Tails.

I've really been itching to get another bike since I sold my zuk, and I'm really torn between picking up another dual sport or thumper, and plating it. On the other side of that coin I am absolutely in love w/ some of the old wanker chit. Specifically I've been eying late 60's BSA Lightnings, there is just something about those bikes.

I also am considering a Norton or Triumph, possibly even a Honda.

Anyone into this style of bikes? I love Hogs, but don't want a huge bike, nor do I want a sportster. I'm not a huge guy, and I want something that I can toss around. My 1st choice would be a vintage Indian Scout (yes I know this is not the bike I just described... :D ) , and it is way out of my price range, but I want something classic, and I just love the lines of the cafe bikes.

So what are your thoughts, go vintage like a BSA, or some kind of reproduction like a W650 and them just chop everything off it and murder it out?

Most likely this will be next winters project, as I don't finance my toys, and would like to just put the money aside, plus some additional depending on the condition.

So vintage British guys, take me to school.

A plus is, that I'll have the FXR out here in a month or so, but it's not my choice that really calls to me.

[CLYDE]

I have owned and ridden british twins off and on my entire riding life. theres even a triumph logo tattooed on my right arm, lol. first thing I have to ask, is do you plan on doing your own wrenching?? and if so, are you familiar with the brit bikes at all? The old saw goes, ride 30 minutes, then wrench 30 minutes, and while that isnt really accurate, its close enough at times. Theres no such thing as locktite that will hold up on a brit twin. Then there is the electricals, You will know things arent right as soon as you realize that they use positive for ground. Lucas electrics,, hmmm where to start,, Oh wait,, they dont lol. Lucas prince of Darkness will become your riding partner. Another old joke,, Why do the brits drink warm beer----------Lucas makes refrigerators too. Ok now with all that, theres nothing like a brit twin for classic fun bikes to ride, they are truly a blast to ride, and they look good too. I have given up owning them, just because I dont care to wrench anymore, but they still hold a special place in my heart, Right next to the clogged aorta thats threatening to explode:flipoff2:

[Ghettojeep]

Haha, thanks for the insight Clyde. I'm fairly mechanically adept, but have no experience working on British bikes. All my wrenching has been done on Jap crap. I need to think long and hard about what I'm looking for, and what I want for it. I just love those bikes though, but what I don't need is just another money pit to throw hundred dollar rocks at. :D

There's some newer stuff thats been made in that style like this one for instance. Kawi w650 http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/661711115.html

Now I could see myself with something like that, and stripping the chrome off and all the not needed chit, then painting it black. If I picked up something vintage I'd still prob do the same type of thing, but would most likely restify/restore it vs just chop the hell out of it.

I guess going with something newer you get better brakes, suspension, yadda, yadda, yadda, and something you can actually ride and not just work on. Like I said I have a bit to ponder it, but dammit there is something about those brit bikes that makes my blood boil. :cool:

[CLYDE]

The old 650 yammies were damn near copies of a triumph twin, very heavily influenced. but the jappers just dont carry the spirit of em, no matter how much they may look alike.
I had a couple of stockers, but almost always ended up with something like these.

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8682&stc=1&d=1210169207

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=8683&stc=1&d=1210169242

[ZappBranigan]

You do know Triumph is still around, right? My last bike was a Triumph Thunderbird, 2001 model.

http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/

Here's their "factory cafe racer", the Thruxton:

http://www.triumph.co.uk/images/thruxton_gallery_main_2_2008.jpg

Though my favorite is the Bonnie Black:

http://www.triumph.co.uk/images/bonneville_gallery_main_1_2008.jpg

I think this is also Triumph's least expensive bike at around $7300. 865cc OHC twin, carbureted, chain driven, 5 speed and rock solid. I put 25,000 miles on my Thunderbird in 2 1/2 years and it never failed me.

[CLYDE]

Yeah I know, but its never been the same since they went under, and then came back so many years later. Their engines were a joint venture with the japs on design etc. They pretty much lost the spirit of the originals in my eyes.

[ZappBranigan]

Yeah I know, but its never been the same since they went under, and then came back so many years later. Their engines were a joint venture with the japs on design etc. They pretty much lost the spirit of the originals in my eyes.

Split cases leaking oil in the driveway?

Lucas electronics that only work when they want to?

Having to spend 20 minutes kicking your bike to get it to start?

Weird sized bolts and nuts that don't work with either metric or SAE tools?

If that's "spirit" I don't need it. ;) The joint venture with the Japanese was to develop the original 3 cyl water cooled motor, the 2 cyl air cooled Bonnie is an all-Brit motor. It's like the original except that it's (a) bigger, (b) more powerful and (c) more reliable.

What's not to like? :shrug:

[CLYDE]

Split cases leaking oil in the driveway?

Lucas electronics that only work when they want to?

Having to spend 20 minutes kicking your bike to get it to start?

Weird sized bolts and nuts that don't work with either metric or SAE tools?

If that's "spirit" I don't need it. ;) The joint venture with the Japanese was to develop the original 3 cyl water cooled motor, the 2 cyl air cooled Bonnie is an all-Brit motor. It's like the original except that it's (a) bigger, (b) more powerful and (c) more reliable.

What's not to like? :shrug:Ok I dont miss the whitworth tools, and I always ditched the lucas stuff and ran electronic ignitions in mine, so starting was never an issue, and I ride harleys,, Oil leaks let you know there still oil in em :flipoff2: Seriously tho, to me its just not the same, Nothing built by the brits should have that refined feeling to it,, just isnt right. I know I know, I admit thats kinda crazy on my part, but its just the way I feel about the damn old limey bikes..

[chopped]

The Yammi's do look like the brit bikes, but like others have said they are missing the "spirit"

Here's one I'm selling (xs650) I have a kid on the way (making 3) my projects need more seats, not less ;)

This was my first project bike and these bikes are about as simple as they get. if your looking for a cafe they make good candidates for those builds as well. They even have a 750 big bore kit our for $500 that could make the bike a LOT of fun to ride especially after getitng rid of some of the weight.

http://images.craigslist.org/01011001160001031020080506a24b1456040bad8d9b0073bd.jpg
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/670004510.html

-Seth

[Ghettojeep]

Damn those Triumphs are tight. That's the style of bike that I want. Just get rid of the chrome and murder it out. I wonder what those are running used.

I'm thinking a newer bike would be the ticket, or at least something that is ridable if it's older. I'm not sure if I'd want to just get a box of parts.

[Ghettojeep]

There's a couple cool Bonnevilles on CL, both old and new. I'm really liking those.

The xs650 maybe an option too. Looks like you can get a solid one of those for the cheap. I could go out and pick one of those up in the next couple weeks if I chose to go that route.

[ZappBranigan]

Damn those Triumphs are tight. That's the style of bike that I want. Just get rid of the chrome and murder it out. I wonder what those are running used.

I'm thinking a newer bike would be the ticket, or at least something that is ridable if it's older. I'm not sure if I'd want to just get a box of parts.

Don't know where you live but there are two Triumph dealerships in the Denver metro area:

Erico Motorsports (http://www.ericomotorsports.com/)

Foothills BMW/Triumph (http://www.foothillsbmw.com/)

I think both of their web sites list used bikes.

[ZappBranigan]

I've been seriously thinking about a Bonnie Black ever since I got rid of the T-bird.

What sux now is the exchange rate is killing prices. If I don't buy soon, the Bonnie Black will cost more than the only HD I like, the Sportster 1200R Roadster.

I think I could be happy with either one but I know from experience that the Triumph is a conversation piece at every gas stop. I always got the same three questions/comments, usually in the same order:

1. What year is that?

2. I thought Triumph went out of business?

3. Back in 19--, I had/my dad or uncle had/knew a guy who had/ a Triumph.... (followed by reminiscing.) :D

[Ghettojeep]

Cool thanks for those links. I'm in Boulder. Those Bonne Blacks are fuggin awesome.

:drool:

http://cdn-1.psndealer.com/e2/dealersite/images/NewVehicles/nv59441_1_400.jpg


Then there is this one on CL, badass. http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/672831559.html

[Jeffro600]

A friend of mine just bought a newer Daytona 955i and ill tell you...Triumphs are as quirky as ever! Its only a couple years old, leaks oil like a 20 year old poorly maintained harley, has electrical problems for days and has more goofy fasteners and crap on it than i can count! I mean, when the bike works, its a fun ride...but other than that, id look to a Jap bike if you want something reliable. But thats just me... :shrug:

[ZappBranigan]

A friend of mine just bought a newer Daytona 955i and ill tell you...Triumphs are as quirky as ever! Its only a couple years old, leaks oil like a 20 year old poorly maintained harley, has electrical problems for days and has more goofy fasteners and crap on it than i can count! I mean, when the bike works, its a fun ride...but other than that, id look to a Jap bike if you want something reliable. But thats just me... :shrug:

Then he either got a bad one or he got one that somebody else fawked with. :shrug:

The new Triumphs are every bit as reliable as Japanese bikes. Mine did 27,000 miles without any problems other than a blown shock that was fixed under warranty. Furthermore, I ride with a Triumph club and many of them have well over 30k on their Triumph triples with no problems.

Every manufacturer makes a lemon now and then. And of course, many inexperienced riders jack up their bikes by messing with them, then they get frustrated when they can't dial it in so they sell it to another sucker just to be rid of it.

[Jeffro600]

The new Triumphs are every bit as reliable as Japanese bikes.

I wouldnt go as far as to say that...i ride with several triumph guys both here and back in CA and not a single one would ever hold a candle to any jap bike in terms of sheer reliability. British ANYTHING has never been known well for that... :flipoff2: Most are simple problems like shotty hardware and oil leaks but still annoyances nonetheless. Ive turned wrenches on and ridden enough of them to know that i would never buy one.

And of course a triumph clubs not gonna bad mouth their bikes...its a triumph club!! :flipoff2:

[ZappBranigan]

And of course a triumph clubs not gonna bad mouth their bikes...its a triumph club!! :flipoff2:

Okay, but the fact is you're going on second-hand knowledge and I'm going on first hand knowledge. Triumph simply could not have acheived the success they've had since their rebirth in 1990 if they still made unreliable bikes. The guys in my club ride thousands of miles and rarely have any problems. Believe me, if their bikes had "reliability" problems we'd know about it because they'd be bitching about it constantly.

The biggest problems with owning a Triumph are:

(1) dealers aren't that common (we are very lucky to have 2 in Denver, most markets only have 1) which means if the dealer is bad, you don't have an alternative (because most non-Triumph dealers won't work on the new Hinckley Triumphs.) Whereas you can't swing a dead cat without hitting 5 KawaHondaYamaZuki or Harley dealerships.

and (2) absolutely everything about a Triumph is pricey. It's definitely a "boutique brand" like BMW. They wanted something like $600 to replace the factory shock on my T-bird (which was non-adjustable) even though an aftermarket adjustable shock (Hagon) was about $400. So I asked if they'd just credit the money to the dealership and I would have them order the aftermarket, which is what they did.

The old "Triumphs are unreliable" canard is like the "Harleys are unreliable" canard. It's a leftover from the old days.

There's no motorcycle made that has a perfect reliability record. But Triumphs are right up there with the Japanese bikes and have been since they came back on the market.

[Jeffro600]

Well thats your point of view and your entitled to it...but from mine and almost every other NEWER triumph owner ive talked to, is not one we/they share. Like ive said, ive slung wrenches on enough of them to see their not near the quality of jap bikes and dont have nearly the amount of R&D put into them. Sometimes when working on them one must sit there and scratch your head and say "huh...why the fawk did those goofy british bastards do that??"

If they were as successful as you boast, you would see more dealerships and more aftermarket support(almost nonexistent)...and more people riding them. But im speaking merely from a supersport aspect here...i know jack about their cruisers/cafe style bikes.

[CLYDE]

I have a jap bike, but I got it in a swap deal. Would I ever go buy one??? UHHH no. Not as long as there are other manufacturers available. Same with their cars, but thats just me, Its not because they dont make ok products. Purely a matter of personal choice on my part, Naturally my first choice is HD, or victory, followed by the triumph, followed by bmw, followed by ducatti, Hell I would buy a Ural, before i would buy a jap bike, at least all of the above have personality, even if they are quirky. Jap bikes have no soul whatsoever, big fat 0 to me. You could take the biggest piece of crap triumph, or bsa etc etc, and park it next to ANY jap bike, and I will go look at the piece of crap. So that may not seem logical, but it is what it is.:shrug:

[toyin]

It's all in what a person wants to look and work on when it comes down to it. I've had nothing but jap bikes, mainly Suzuki's and knock on wood I have had 0 issues with it. I also maintain it more then most people do. If the Americans would build a bike to run the canyons like a sport bike I would defiantly buy one and keep my money state side. The triumph's are cool bikes and are WAY more reliable then they use to be, with technology comes reliability. I really don't think you could go wrong with a triumph.

[toyin]

The other bike you may like is the Ducati monster, it's a fun bike in and out of town, very rider friendly. BUT it has the ducati name so your gonna pay a little more.

[ZappBranigan]

If the Americans would build a bike to run the canyons like a sport bike I would defiantly buy one and keep my money state side.


http://www.buell.com/en_us/home.asp

You're welcome. :D

[Ghettojeep]

The Triumph dealers aren't open Mondays? WTF.

[ZappBranigan]

The Triumph dealers aren't open Mondays? WTF.

Traditionally, almost all MC dealers are closed on Monday. I think the idea is they stay open Saturday to get the people in who can't come in M-F, and then they give their people Monday off so they can get 2 days in a row.

Honestly, I was kind of shocked the first time I saw a motorcycle shop that was open on a Monday! To me it's a sign that they're getting more desperate for customers that they're staying open on Mondays.

I'll bet most MC shops in the Metro area are closed on Mondays. Certainly the non-dealer affiliated ones are.

[Ghettojeep]

Ya know what, you are totally right. I remember trying to buy tires for my dual sport on a monday locally, and I ended up pretty po'd. :D

[Pilot]

I had a 1978 Triumph 750 Bonneville that I converted to a cafe racer with clip ons and changing the location of the foot pegs. I also had some tweeks done to the engine. It was a nice bike and surprisingly reliable both mechanically and electrically. It just leaked a little oil. :D

Bought a second bike because a friend of mine needed to sell it, a black Norton 850 Combat Commando. Basically and out of the box cafe racer. :D

Wish I had both of those bikes but I sold them many years ago. I've always been fascinated with British stuff and had two MG's also. They did confrim the Lucas Prince of Darkness moniker, but I call always synchronize those SU Downdraft dual carbs.

If I was going to get another bike, it would probably be this: