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View Full Version : Gas, over or at 4 bucks by Memorial Day?



Ghettojeep
February 28th, 2008, 07:43 PM
Some people are predicting that this will be so. I saw at one point oil was at over $103 per barrel.


Yay!!!!

LONEWOLF
February 28th, 2008, 07:44 PM
Its to help cover the taxes they have to pay.

Tom N
February 28th, 2008, 08:03 PM
Motorcycle time!

CherryokeeXJ
February 28th, 2008, 08:10 PM
My car only takes mid-grade. I filled up at $3.14 today. I almost started audibly weeping at the pump. I'm thinking of investing in a cart and donkey. I'd let it eat my evil neighbor's lawn.

I wonder if you can fit 31's under a cart......

Leon Phelps
February 28th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Leave your oil and walk away.

otisdog
February 28th, 2008, 08:18 PM
The guy in Texas [don't know who] that predicted $100 a barrel oil quite a while ago stated that we will see $150 a barrel and possibly $6 a gallon within two years. Heard that on the radio today.
jim

potter
February 28th, 2008, 08:44 PM
they always predict the worst. gas gets more expensive every year, and it's just insane during the summer. i know this, you know this, i expect this, and i expect you do too. the end.

LONEWOLF
February 28th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I know this won't happen but if we boycot the big three or even the 2 largest would it help? I am not saying don't buy gas, just not from the majors. They would loose alot of money in just a couple days.

1BGDOG
February 28th, 2008, 08:51 PM
i was listening to w's press conference this am and he was surprised to hear this from a reporter.

CapnCrunch
February 28th, 2008, 09:01 PM
I know this won't happen but if we boycot the big three or even the 2 largest would it help? I am not saying don't buy gas, just not from the majors. They would loose alot of money in just a couple days.

Won't work. A lot of the little guys get their gas from the big guys.

The only thing that will help you out is to permanently change your use of fuel. Whether that's getting a job a lot closer, or driving something that gets 50+ MPG, or only driving some days and car-pooling other days.

This, however, doesn't account for the cost increases to goods due to fuel increases. That would also mean a change in spending habits.

It can turn into a vicious, inescapable cycle, so I recommend :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:.

potter
February 28th, 2008, 09:04 PM
or driving something that gets 50+ MPG

Is there any way to convert a TJ? I know you can convert ANTHING to a hybrid or pure electric. But don't know of any place that can do it for a reasonable price, or do it without needed a load of space (which the TJ does not have).

LONEWOLF
February 28th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I have a service business, I drive 200-300 miles a day. I carry tools and equipment, a 50mpg vehicle won't cut it. I wish it would. I have to raise service call prices which makes people mad. It affects everything.

architect1
February 28th, 2008, 09:19 PM
This was all said lasts year,

starbreaker666
February 28th, 2008, 09:33 PM
With Limon only being 1 mile long and work only 3.5 miles away I am seriously considering...

http://powersports.honda.com/assets/images/model/c028_029_030_031_photos_all/scooters/2007/Reflex_Sport/Medium/Reflex_Sport_red.jpg


Might look goofy and a wee bit Al, but a lot cheaper on gas spring through fall.

spacely
February 28th, 2008, 09:38 PM
Won't work. A lot of the little guys get their gas from the big guys.

The only thing that will help you out is to permanently change your use of fuel. Whether that's getting a job a lot closer, or driving something that gets 50+ MPG, or only driving some days and car-pooling other days.

This, however, doesn't account for the cost increases to goods due to fuel increases. That would also mean a change in spending habits.

It can turn into a vicious, inescapable cycle, so I recommend :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:.

another thing is to use public transportation, and some companies reimburse employees who use public transit...

Colo.TJ
February 28th, 2008, 09:38 PM
I know this won't happen but if we boycot the big three or even the 2 largest would it help? I am not saying don't buy gas, just not from the majors. They would loose alot of money in just a couple days.

I had a girlfriend(once) and her father worked for the Conoco refinery in Commerce City. He claimed that they all bought from each other. Just depended on who was cheapest the day they bought.

Colo.TJ
February 28th, 2008, 09:41 PM
With Limon only being 1 mile long and work only 3.5 miles away I am seriously considering...

http://powersports.honda.com/assets/images/model/c028_029_030_031_photos_all/scooters/2007/Reflex_Sport/Medium/Reflex_Sport_red.jpg


Might look goofy and a wee bit Al, but a lot cheaper on gas spring through fall.

I dumped the 01 Dodge diesel for a new Corolla last summer. Avg. over 34 mpg over the last 10,000 miles. Saving well over $300/month. Now we are considering some Honda scoots. I just can't see myself motoring around on one yet. It's bad enough in the econo box.

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 09:45 PM
http://www.madmaxmovies.com/images/events/B2TM.JPG

CapnCrunch
February 28th, 2008, 09:45 PM
I have a service business, I drive 200-300 miles a day. I carry tools and equipment, a 50mpg vehicle won't cut it. I wish it would. I have to raise service call prices which makes people mad. It affects everything.

So raise your prices. Everything else is going up in price partly because of gas prices. So why not your services? If they let you go and try to hire somebody new they may just get the same thing...higher prices. I don't know what you do, but if the cost of your material doubles, are you just going to eat it because you don't want to make them mad?

Loki
February 28th, 2008, 09:51 PM
I need to bug my boss more about working from home. :shrug:

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 10:06 PM
So raise your prices. Everything else is going up in price partly because of gas prices. So why not your services? If they let you go and try to hire somebody new they may just get the same thing...higher prices. I don't know what you do, but if the cost of your material doubles, are you just going to eat it because you don't want to make them mad?

Higher copper and fuel prices effectively killed my electrical service business. It also effectively laid off the 4 men working for me and forced me to slap my tools back on around my waist and work for another contractor. At what point can a consumer make the decision between getting something repaired or upgraded and making the trip to work and keeping the house? Everything is affected. From the price of a gallon of milk to the service guy that just paid $200 for gas so his 2 vans can get to work with $200 a day labor sitting in the seats. :mad:

Steve
February 28th, 2008, 10:20 PM
My car only takes mid-grade.

Sorry, I call :bs:

Almost all cars made in the last 10 years at least run just fine on regular. Unless you have some high compression performance car you're wasting your $$$.

creepycrawler
February 28th, 2008, 10:29 PM
I guess I just don't understand what's going on here. I thought that the only reason that we invaded Irac was to steal their oil. When are going to quit pussyfooting around & get it stole?






Just kidding.....







Seriously, the only way we can do anything about it is to get people in the Whitehouse, Congress & Senate that will let us drill for our own oil so we can stop having to depend on third world shitholes for it.

potter
February 28th, 2008, 10:41 PM
I guess I just don't understand what's going on here. I thought that the only reason that we invaded Irac was to steal their oil. When are going to quit pussyfooting around & get it stole?






Just kidding.....

pffft why be kidding? it's not like we care what the UN or the rest of the world thinks of us anyway. we should just take it. wars are constantly fought over resources, oil is the absolute most important resource in this age. i'd get behind just taking a country to steal their oil.

SuicideTireZJ
February 28th, 2008, 10:44 PM
I got one of these
http://tijil.org/vanilla24_640.jpg

and one of these if it gets really bad,
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/454000-454999/454548_1.jpg


I know I look reaaaally gay rolling around, but 35+MPG for the scion and 75+ for the Spree and I could care less. Might just wear my leathers to stand out even more. But I'm looking into trading the scooter in for something real (but still with 2 wheels...) instead of dumping money into jeep upgrades. We'll see.

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 10:45 PM
pffft why be kidding? it's not like we care what the UN or the rest of the world thinks of us anyway. we should just take it. wars are constantly fought over resources, oil is the absolute most important resource in this age. i'd get behind just taking a country to steal their oil.

Because it takes a business to get the oil to the market and it goes to the highest bidder. Plus, businesses are in it for a profit, but who pays for the war? :shrug:

Jeffro600
February 28th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Luckily both of my vehicles get 30+ MPG...unfortunately, they both require premium... :rolleyes:

One of those Honda scooters that gets 80-100 MPG that the salesman at the stealership talked me out of is starting to look tempting...:flipoff2:

http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c028_029_030_031_photos_all/scooters/2007/Metropolitan/Medium/Metropolitan_pink_hibiscus.jpg

BEEP BEEP!!! :flipoff2:

Yota
February 28th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Higher copper and fuel prices effectively killed my electrical service business. It also effectively laid off the 4 men working for me and forced me to slap my tools back on around my waist and work for another contractor. At what point can a consumer make the decision between getting something repaired or upgraded and making the trip to work and keeping the house? Everything is affected. From the price of a gallon of milk to the service guy that just paid $200 for gas so his 2 vans can get to work with $200 a day labor sitting in the seats. :mad:

Didn't your competition have to buy the same copper and the same fuel as you?

I don't understand how this would affect your business but not that of your competition?

Honest question.

Yota
February 28th, 2008, 10:53 PM
If you're gonna get a scooter, at least get a respectable 125cc motorcycle. I mean come on!

I used to ride a scooter when I was like 14. They're OK but they'll be doing good to crack 35 MPH downhill with a tailwind and the difference in mileage between the scooter and a 125 is very small.

For that matter, any motorcycle (OK, almost any) is a lot better than the best car.

Jeffro600
February 28th, 2008, 10:56 PM
If you're gonna get a scooter, at least get a respectable 125cc motorcycle. I mean come on!

Oh brother...it was a joke!! :P

This IS my new "scooter"...

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s296/SharpsShooter69/DSC_0546.jpg

Scooter that gets 35-40 MPG and will do 200 MPH... :flipoff2:

Yota
February 28th, 2008, 10:57 PM
Observation: when gas prices are high like this and we all start seriously considering motorcycles, scooters, econo-cars, bicycles, teh bus, home officing, etc. that is us (we are "the market") responding to high prices by reducing our demand.

Demand for gasoline is not inelastic at all.

Rex Ashton
February 28th, 2008, 11:12 PM
:cool: Nice bike, Jeffro....

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 11:15 PM
Didn't your competition have to buy the same copper and the same fuel as you?

I don't understand how this would affect your business but not that of your competition?

Honest question.

They're also affected, it's just they get to downsize. My competition is the unlicensed and uninsured handyman. I'm not going down that road to make a buck. The me working upside is; I get paid every week, someone else gets to buy material and deal with customers, I go home in the afternoon and have dinner with the girls. Maybe, this way, my hair will grow back. The job that I'm on is scheduled to end at 2010 and it's a essential municipal project. :cool:

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 11:21 PM
Economics Basics: Elasticity

The degree to which a demand or supply curve reacts to a change in price is the curve's elasticity. Elasticity varies among products because some products may be more essential to the consumer. Products that are necessities are more insensitive to price changes because consumers would continue buying these products despite price increases. Conversely, a price increase of a good or service that is considered less of a necessity will deter more consumers because the opportunity cost of buying the product will become too high.

A good or service is considered to be highly elastic if a slight change in price leads to a sharp change in the quantity demanded or supplied. Usually these kinds of products are readily available in the market and a person may not necessarily need them in his or her daily life. On the other hand, an inelastic good or service is one in which changes in price witness only modest changes in the quantity demanded or supplied, if any at all. These goods tend to be things that are more of a necessity to the consumer in his or her daily life.

Jeffro600
February 28th, 2008, 11:25 PM
http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/c028_029_030_031_photos_all/scooters/2007/Metropolitan/Medium/Metropolitan_pink_hibiscus.jpg

Come on...seriously...its not that bad!! :flipoff2:


Just think if everyone got rid of their gas guzzling SUV's are rode one of these...gas would be down to 99 cents a gallon in NO time flat!! :D

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 11:28 PM
Does it come in red? :shrug:

Jeffro600
February 28th, 2008, 11:29 PM
Does it come in red? :shrug:

http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/model_images/Scooters/2008/Metropolitan_Monza.jpg

The 08's do...and their only 1799 brand new!! :flipoff2:

I must admit though...they really are much more GAY looking in person! lol

Yota
February 28th, 2008, 11:30 PM
Oh brother...it was a joke!! :P

This IS my new "scooter"...

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s296/SharpsShooter69/DSC_0546.jpg

Scooter that gets 35-40 MPG and will do 200 MPH... :flipoff2:

Now THAT's what I'm talkin' 'bout. :D

Yota
February 28th, 2008, 11:32 PM
They're also affected, it's just they get to downsize. My competition is the unlicensed and uninsured handyman. I'm not going down that road to make a buck. The me working upside is; I get paid every week, someone else gets to buy material and deal with customers, I go home in the afternoon and have dinner with the girls. Maybe, this way, my hair will grow back. The job that I'm on is scheduled to end at 2010 and it's a essential municipal project. :cool:

Makes sense, but it sounds like your business was sunk by more than just copper and fuel prices.

It's pretty tough for the honest worker to compete head-to-head with cheaters.

Yota
February 28th, 2008, 11:36 PM
Economics Basics: Elasticity

The degree to which a demand or supply curve reacts to a change in price is the curve's elasticity. Elasticity varies among products because some products may be more essential to the consumer. Products that are necessities are more insensitive to price changes because consumers would continue buying these products despite price increases. Conversely, a price increase of a good or service that is considered less of a necessity will deter more consumers because the opportunity cost of buying the product will become too high.

A good or service is considered to be highly elastic if a slight change in price leads to a sharp change in the quantity demanded or supplied. Usually these kinds of products are readily available in the market and a person may not necessarily need them in his or her daily life. On the other hand, an inelastic good or service is one in which changes in price witness only modest changes in the quantity demanded or supplied, if any at all. These goods tend to be things that are more of a necessity to the consumer in his or her daily life.

Uh huh. And this is absolutely consistent with what we were just seeing above: people finding ways to cut back on gasoline consumption. Given high enough gasoline prices and feasible-enough alternatives (the latter is strengthened by the former), people would abandon gasoline. And they don't need any government coercion to do so (as evidenced by the above discussion - which is really a microcosm of the whole market).

As long as prices are free to rise and fall and people are free to pursue their own economic self-interest, we ensure that resources are used in the most efficient way possible.

Renegade_Jeeper
February 28th, 2008, 11:47 PM
My car only takes mid-grade. I filled up at $3.14 today. I almost started audibly weeping at the pump. I'm thinking of investing in a cart and donkey. I'd let it eat my evil neighbor's lawn.

I wonder if you can fit 31's under a cart......

me too
cept only i can afford a lame mule

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 11:54 PM
Makes sense, but it sounds like your business was sunk by more than just copper and fuel prices.

It's pretty tough for the honest worker to compete head-to-head with cheaters.

I have a low overhead and sunk most of the profits back into the company, (tools, bucket truck, service vans, advertiseing). I charged less than my competition and my dance card was full. When the price of doing business increased, costs were passed along, however some customers held off or waited for the market to come down. Residential construction almost completely dried up out here and the speculators are still sitting on their last house they built. My new market is foreclosed / abandoned homes that either the past owner or neighborhood crackhead stripped out. Still, I'd rather not pursue expanding or launching my new business until conditions change, although I might have a buyer for it. Who knows? It will change as soon as the bottom is found. :cool:

TheCopperCowboy
February 28th, 2008, 11:59 PM
Uh huh. And this is absolutely consistent with what we were just seeing above: people finding ways to cut back on gasoline consumption. Given high enough gasoline prices and feasible-enough alternatives (the latter is strengthened by the former), people would abandon gasoline. And they don't need any government coercion to do so (as evidenced by the above discussion - which is really a microcosm of the whole market).

As long as prices are free to rise and fall and people are free to pursue their own economic self-interest, we ensure that resources are used in the most efficient way possible.

Perhaps, but even a parasite knows that keeping the host alive is to their benefit. Not saying the big oly is parasitic. :D

Yota
February 29th, 2008, 12:03 AM
Rex Ashton (you know Rex - the "I'd Hit It" Guy? :D ) just finished renovating, and is in the process of selling, a foreclosure two houses down from mine.

This one didn't happen because of subprime lending, the place was just water damaged because the moron renters (a family of rought 75 persons :D who spoke mostly Spanish - we'll leave it at that) fled literally in the middle of the night in Dec. 2006 and turned off the heat! The next day or week there was a waterfall coming out from the 2nd floor siding!

So Rex fixed this place up and is about to sell it for (I hope) a tidy profit. He did an awesome job on the place and it did require some electrical work.

Anyway, there's definitely a market out there for that kind of work.

The funny part is that I didn't know it was Rex until the open house and his wife's full name was on the sign (she's his realtor) and my wife put 2 and 2 together. It was funny. But dude does good work.

Yota
February 29th, 2008, 12:06 AM
Perhaps, but even a parasite knows that keeping the host alive is to their benefit. Not saying the big oly is parasitic. :D

You have a need for gasoline and are willing to pay for it rather than take the bus or walk or ride a bicycle. Don't act like they're sucking you dry. You buy gasoline voluntarily and so do I. I do it only because its cost *to me* is less than that of the alternatives. Remember that cost includes way more than just money.

But you know this. :D

TheCopperCowboy
February 29th, 2008, 12:29 AM
You have a need for gasoline and are willing to pay for it rather than take the bus or walk or ride a bicycle. Don't act like they're sucking you dry. You buy gasoline voluntarily and so do I. I do it only because its cost *to me* is less than that of the alternatives. Remember that cost includes way more than just money.

But you know this. :D

You know where Bennett is, right? Taking a bus or riding a bike just ain't happening. If I'm driving into town, I'm coming back with some sheckles in my pocket. :cool:

newracer
February 29th, 2008, 01:22 AM
I have seriously thought about buying a Honda Ruckus

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Honda-Ruckusa-small.jpg

supremebeholder
February 29th, 2008, 09:33 AM
My neighbor gave me this last year: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/supremebeholder/Img_0163.jpg

1978 CB125S, with I think around 12.5 hp.

I don?t know the mileage but it should be somewhere in the realm of 60-70. If I didn?t live in Monument, with a 15-mile stint on I-25 to the Springs, I?d already be sporting it. But since it doesn?t seem to want to go much past 55 I really don?t have much use for it, other than short trips to Monument, which I can?t even do since I haven't gone through the trouble to get my license yet.

And yeah, I look funny riding it. :D

Oscar
February 29th, 2008, 09:36 AM
My hat is off to any small business owner. You are way braver than me just for these reasons things totally out of your control kill so many good sound businesses.

kfuss
February 29th, 2008, 09:45 AM
Is there any way to convert a TJ? I know you can convert ANTHING to a hybrid or pure electric. But don't know of any place that can do it for a reasonable price, or do it without needed a load of space (which the TJ does not have).

This was on craigslist last week, dunno if it works or not. Looks interesting though.

http://www.preignitioncc.com/peakenergy/

From the chart on the website:
Jeep Wrangler 2000 4 cyl 17.3 26.58 53%

ZappBranigan
February 29th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Just FYI a 200-250cc dual sport will typically give you upwards of 80mpg and unlike the scooter, you won't need to wear a bag over your head to keep your friends from seeing you on it.

Been looking for a decent Yamaha TW200 or Suzuki DR250 for a while, but cash is running low so I may not get it this year. No biggie for me - I live 1 mile from the light rail station and my motorcycle gets around 50mpg. :D

LONEWOLF
February 29th, 2008, 10:43 AM
It is tough, I have a sprinkler install/repair business the price of material goes up, the price of gas goes up. You have to stay competitive. I refuse to hire illegals and its hard to compete with the ones that do, and alot of them do.

scottycards
February 29th, 2008, 11:07 AM
It is tough, I have a sprinkler install/repair business the price of material goes up, the price of gas goes up. You have to stay competitive. I refuse to hire illegals and its hard to compete with the ones that do, and alot of them do.

Buy your wire products now! We manuf edge stakes and fabric pins, and you don't even want to know what prices are doing.

Steel edging isn't going to be cheap this summer either.

A little PSA for you, hope it helps.

LONEWOLF
February 29th, 2008, 11:10 AM
I will find out soon enough :crybaby2:

Thanks for the heads up.

CherryokeeXJ
February 29th, 2008, 11:23 AM
Unless you have some high compression performance car

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner. What do we have for him Johnny??

My car retards the timing if I put anything less than mid in the tank. It's an '03 Saab 2.0 Turbo. Runs like chit with the cheap stuff.

scottycards
February 29th, 2008, 11:25 AM
I will find out soon enough :crybaby2:

Thanks for the heads up.

We manufacture the edging as well.

You'll be paying for the extra fuel cost to haul that 40,000 lb load to your local distributor.

ZappBranigan
February 29th, 2008, 11:25 AM
The price of oil that you hear on the news is usually for futures, not current inventories, and can fluctuate wildly because it is speculative in nature. Joe bids $103 for crude oil for June delivery because he thinks that by then crude will be selling for $105 and he will make a killing. But then Jill is happy to take Joe's $103 dollar bid because she thinks oil will be $98 a barrel in June and she will make a killing.

Also, remember that the price of oil and the price of refined gasoline are not "locked" together. The price of refined gasoline has to take into account things like refining capacity, special blends required by different states or cities for emissions purposes, and overall demand. So the price for oil can be sky high but if demand drops, the price of refined gasoline will drop because you have more sellers competing for fewer buyers. Or, similarly, the price of crude oil on the futures market can be low but a decrease in supply of refined gasoline (caused by the shutdown of a refinery) can cause gas prices to rise sharply while oil prices remain steady.

I recall that for 2005 and 2006 the prices started rising around Memorial day and just kept rising (plus a spike in September of 2005 after Hurricane Katrina shut down a bunch of refineries in Texas and Louisiana.)

But last year a strange thing happened: The prices spiked around Memorial day and then either stayed static or rolled back slightly throughout the summer. I think part of that was due to decreased demand. Basically, a lot of the driving that people were "used to" was discretionary and they simply chose to do things like combine trips, carpool, use public transportation, bicycle, walk, etc.

I think the same thing may happen this year. People have already begun to modify some of their behaviors to adjust for higher gas prices.

Of course, there are downstream effects of this, too. If people choose to vacation closer to home because of high fuel prices then it really hurts the resort communities who rely on Summer tourism to keep them in the black.

On the flip side, though, there are communities that are dependent on oil fields that were destitute in the 1980s because it was cheaper to import oil from the Middle East than it was to drill our own, and now many of those communities have been revitalized because rising fuel prices have now made the less productive fields economically viable. Ditto for alternative fuels, which were simply not viable when gas and oil were cheap. Higher fuel prices make alternatives viable economically.

I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture here, I'm just pointing out that (a) we've been through things like this before and survived, and (b) it's not all negative. Let's face it, we've gotten used to extremely cheap fuel over the last 30 years or so and it's encouraged a lot of wasteful habits. If we start curbing some of those habits I see it as a beneficial thing for all of us.

starbreaker666
February 29th, 2008, 03:17 PM
My neighbor gave me this last year: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/supremebeholder/Img_0163.jpg

1978 CB125S, with I think around 12.5 hp.

I don?t know the mileage but it should be somewhere in the realm of 60-70. If I didn?t live in Monument, with a 15-mile stint on I-25 to the Springs, I?d already be sporting it. But since it doesn?t seem to want to go much past 55 I really don?t have much use for it, other than short trips to Monument, which I can?t even do since I haven't gone through the trouble to get my license yet.

And yeah, I look funny riding it. :D

SHoot, i'll take it off your hands.. Thats perfect for out here in the country where I live.