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View Full Version : Colorado Childrens' Healthcare - Drink Up!


TheCopperCowboy
February 20th, 2008, 07:45 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/feb/19/beer-tax-health-care/

Poll: Beer tax for health care?
By Chris Barge, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Originally published 02:42 p.m., February 19, 2008
Updated 03:27 p.m., February 19, 2008

While the governor and lawmakers said what they would and wouldn't do for health care this year, nobody mentioned Rep. Jerry Frangas.

But the Denver Democrat very quietly drafted a bill introduced this week that would raise alcohol taxes 2 percent to cover all of Colorado's 180,000 uninsured children.

The tax of 11 cents, for example, on a $5.49 six-pack of Budweiser, would raise about $57 million for the state children's health care program. When paired with federal matching funds, Frangas said it would provide up to $150 million.

Gov. Bill Ritter, leading Democratic lawmakers and various interest groups have been publicly debating how and whether to ask voters to raise taxes to address a number of needs - including health care.

Recently, talk has shifted away from a health care tax in favor of a possible severance tax hike on the booming oil and gas industry to put more money into higher education, transportation, the environment, or some combination of those.

Asked about Frangas' bill, Ritter's spokesman Evan Dreyer said he hadn't heard about it but noted the governor said last week "that he was not inclined to see a health care measure go to the ballot in November."

Frangas said he has spoken with Senate President Peter Groff about getting a Senate sponsor for HB 1341, but that Groff was noncommittal. Frangas said he also spoke with House Speaker Andrew Romanoff, who got him up to speed on the larger debate over what if any tax increase to refer to voters next year.

Romanoff told the Rocky Tuesday that he and other lawmakers are working with Ritter on what he called "an organic conversation" about what question will wind up on the ballot.

Children's health care remains a top priority that lawmakers are struggling to figure out a way to pay for with the state's limited resources, Romanoff said. "I'm glad that Rep. Frangas has put an idea on the table," he added.

Frangas said he knows he's venturing out on his own with his bill. But he said he's doing it because his constituents have told him it's a good idea. Plus, he said, the idea polls well.

Colorado has a lower alcohol tax than most other states, according to an analysis prepared for Sen. Bob Hagedorn, D-Aurora, this month by an economist with the state's Legislative Council. A 2 percent tax hike would bring Colorado's alcohol tax up to 4.9 percent.

Hagedorn, who co-chairs the joint Health & Human Services Committee, said he considered introducing a bill similar to Frangas' this year, but shelved that idea in favor of a bill he plans to introduce in late March that would put the legislature on a three-step path toward putting a health care tax question on the 2010 ballot.

"Any money that can go into health care for Coloradans who do not have access to health care I think is a good idea," Hagedorn said. "But my caution would be: make sure there is a good effort to get it passed. You're going up against a billion-dollar industry."

bargec@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5059

SteveH - Colo Springs
February 21st, 2008, 01:35 PM
>Colorado has a lower alcohol tax than most other states, according to an analysis prepared for Sen. Bob Hagedorn, D-Aurora, this month by an economist with the state's Legislative Council. A 2 percent tax hike would bring Colorado's alcohol tax up to 4.9 percent.<


Democrats see taxes as 'ok, as long as you're taxed just a little less than the next (tax hell) state'. Gee - Colorado can be just like New York or Michigan, and just as appealing to businesses and consumers.

I guess you cannot say the Dems have been out of character - I've seen nothing but endless tax proposals coming out of Denver so far this year. Proposed taxes on diesels, taxes on car registration, tobacco, alcohol, etc.

scottycards
February 21st, 2008, 01:44 PM
[sarcasm/humor]

I don't drink, so I'm all about the booze tax. :flipoff2:

[/sarcasm/humor]

Leon Phelps
February 21st, 2008, 02:27 PM
[sarcasm/humor]

I don't drink, so I'm all about the booze tax. :flipoff2:

[/sarcasm/humor]

I hate you :flipoff2:

I need a cocktail, if the bill passes, back to distilling :D

Gags
February 21st, 2008, 02:49 PM
Ah yes, smokers and drinkers are the "bad" people. They should be punished.

Steve
February 21st, 2008, 02:51 PM
Ah yes, smokers and drinkers are the "bad" people. They should be punished.

Easy targets for greedy politicians. We have a bunch of those in the CO congress right now. :thumbsdown:

Gags
February 21st, 2008, 02:57 PM
Easy targets for greedy politicians. We have a bunch of those in the CO congress right now. :thumbsdown:

I know, damn. "Well I don't do it so it doesn't effect me, let the other citizens who supposedly have the same rights and public responsibility pick up the tab...They're bad people anyway." I love how we attack our own people. If we want free health care for kids who can't get it then that's a public responsibility that all citizens should share.

scottycards
February 21st, 2008, 03:26 PM
I hope my post was taken in jest.........

Sin taxes are nothing new.

Steve
February 21st, 2008, 03:42 PM
If you think sin taxes are overboard, take a look at your next hotel bill. Almost everywhere I go there is at least $10/night tax, and in some places it's over $20/night. Of course, those taxes are easy for politicians to sell to their constituents because they don't pay them.

scottycards
February 21st, 2008, 03:44 PM
Oh heck yes. Put a tax on every hotel room night visit. They are out of hand. Great hidden charge, because the hotel quotes room rates, and in the fine print it will say "plus taxes and surcharges".

Crazy.

But you don't pay your hotel room costs, so what do you care? HA!

kfuss
February 21st, 2008, 03:44 PM
I guess you cannot say the Dems have been out of character - I've seen nothing but endless tax proposals coming out of Denver so far this year. Proposed taxes on diesels, taxes on car registration, tobacco, alcohol, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I would way rather pay this than "aid to foriegn (terrorist sponsoring) nations" or "rebuilding Iraq" but:

Didn't they just get a giant windfall from Ref C?

And then raised all the tuition at the colleges and schools?

scottycards
February 21st, 2008, 03:47 PM
I believe Ref C was mostly for higher education, right? Not sure, and haven't gone to look, so my recollection is vague at best.

The new CU president was just addressing this, something about Ref C only lasting for 2.5 more years, and then higher ed was going to be in deep doo doo........

Steve
February 21st, 2008, 03:48 PM
But you don't pay your hotel room costs, so what do you care? HA!

I suspect that we'd add six figures to our annual EBITDA without those charges, which would mean a larger bonus. So, in a way, I do pay them. :D

scottycards
February 21st, 2008, 03:51 PM
Wow. You guys sure travel a lot.

Pulling this one from way back:
If you're bonused on EBITDA, why so concerned about margins? :boxing: :P

Just increase the pie, and it's not quite so important how thick each slice is..........

No need to reply to my ramblings.....

Steve
February 21st, 2008, 03:56 PM
Wow. You guys sure travel a lot.

I'm just guessing, but with ~3,000 employees, many of whom travel, it adds up. I spend 75-100 nights every year in a hotel room. It doesn't take a lot of people traveling that much to exceed six figures. :shrug:

Depending on your definition of margin, EBITDA = margin. At least for us that's the case, and yeah, bonuses are to a large extent based on that.

Keep rambling. I'm home after a dentist appt. Half my face is numb.

scottycards
February 21st, 2008, 04:24 PM
Earnings before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Ammortization.

Earnings = the whole pile of money.

From a sales standpoint, I can usually generate more margin dollars at a lower price (and margin) by virtue of the fact that I'm lower priced than my competition. So we only make .35 on every dollar, instead of .45, but for each dollar we used to close in business (that generated .45), we're now closing 1.50 in business, and generating .52 in revenue/earnings.

So we go out and kick butt on price, get another 50% uplift in business (very realistic scenario, but it will vary, and your field may not be so price sensitive- steel is) and end up with more in the till at the end of the day.

Steve
February 21st, 2008, 04:33 PM
Our business model is different, as is most consulting, from yours. We go for max margin on every hour of work, and rarely lower our rates to try to make more margin on volume. And since our interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization are pretty stable year to year, EBITDA for us is essentially margin.

Actually we track gross revenue, net revenue and EBITDA as our primary indicators.

/hijack

scottycards
February 21st, 2008, 04:37 PM
Different animals. I'm selling product, you're selling services. I have unlimited supply to sell, you probably have only a certain number of hours you can possibly bill.

When I sold consulting services, one of our key limitations to how much we could sell was how many people we had available to do the work- they were printed circuit board designers, and integrated circuit designers.

I'm feeling ya.

Don't bite through your cheek at dinner, OK?

SteveH - Colo Springs
February 21st, 2008, 05:53 PM
Ref C is surrounded by controversy - it's raised FAR more money than initially claimed and this money is (not surprisingly) being ignored as revenue by the state.

From the Independence Institute web site, Ref C: "After Ref C passed, lawmakers approved a fiscal shell game, reducing K-12, higher ed and Medicaid spending from existing sources, then replacing those funds with money from Ref C. In some instances, education and health care actually received less money immediately after Ref C passed.

Don't miss the 'Conclusion' on page 4 of this issue backgrounder at:
http://www.i2i.org/articles/IB_2007_E.pdf