Want to know our enemy?

[Budman]

Still think we should sit down at the table and talk to these "People"

<http://english.chosun.com/>


N.Koreans Returned by South 'Executed for Defection'

Twenty-two North Koreans who were turned back by South Korean authorities earlier this month after their fishing boats drifted into South Korean waters were executed last week and may have been seeking to defect to the South, sources said.

Authorities here triggered speculation when they made no formal confirmation of their repatriation. According to the Navy and the National Intelligence Service, the 22 were found drifting on Feb. 8 after catching crabs and oysters off Hwanghaedo Province, North Korea. They told investigators they wanted to return to the North and were sent back overland.

The group consisting mostly of workers from a fishery unit and cooperative farm in Dungam-ri, Gangryeong County, Hwanghae Province included three teenagers. According to the NIS, they set off aboard two rubber boats towed by a motor boat on Feb. 7, the Lunar Near Year, but were cast adrift on their way home while the motor boat went to rescue other boats the same afternoon, and were found by South Koreans in the early hours of Feb. 8. Thirteen of them were members of six families and nine others were their neighbors. "They were just in distress and wanted to be sent back to the North, where their families live," an NIS official said. The NIS sent the North Koreans back to the North through the Panmunjom truce village at 6:30 p.m. on the same day.

But Lee Gwang-il, a North Korean refugee who served as a maritime guard in the North, said no North Korean youngsters would be allowed to sail off in a boat even if they bribed officials. "Given that youngsters were involved, the chances are that they were attempting to defect to the South,? Lee said. He said controls are particularly tight in Hwanghae Province because it is near the South. He said rubber boats are not used by ordinary citizens and the group probably stole them from the military to defect. Kim Eun-chol, another North Korean refugee who lived near the coast in Sinuiju, on the border with China, agreed that a group including teenagers is unlikely to have been out fishing.

The Yonhap News Agency on Sunday quoted a government source as saying the 22 were executed early last week. "A rumor spread in South Hwanghae Province that the National Security Agency secretly executed the 22 people immediately after they were returned," the source was quoted saying. "People in the province are shocked by the fact that all of the 22 people were shot and killed without exception [like] being sent to a prison camp," the source said. The NIS said nothing has been confirmed.

Meanwhile, North Korea was in a festive mood, celebrating the 66th birthday of its leader Kim Jong-il on Saturday. In the North, the Lunar New Year is called a folk festival but Kim's birthday "the Greatest National Festival." According to the North Korean media, various commemorative events including athletic meetings are held in major cities including Pyongyang, which is decked out in colorful flowers, flags and neon decorations

Song Dae-sung, a senior researcher at the Sejong Institute, a private non-profit think-tank in South Korea, said "Had the North Korea purchased rice and grain with the money spent on celebrating Kim Jong-il birthday, a considerable portion of the food shortage of the residents would have been resolved.?



url: http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200802/200802180009.html

[Sound_Man]

Here is a little more of a different enemy.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019974.php

Here is a link to the video. It is graphic. Some may find it very unnerving.
http://videogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/Video.aspx?s=5&vid=2107

[Willy36]

Here is a little more of a different enemy.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019974.php

Here is a link to the video. It is graphic. Some may find it very unnerving.
http://videogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/Video.aspx?s=5&vid=2107

dude we can totally talk diplomacy with these guys. :rolleyes:

[Clint]

Jeez Bud, its really simple. All they want is for us to get off their land. If we leave them alone, they will leave us alone, sheesh.....

[Budman]

Jeez Bud, its really simple. All they want is for us to get off their land. If we leave them alone, they will leave us alone, sheesh.....

Good point...

[Gags]

Let's not be retarded. This sh!t has been happening in NK for a long time. Nobody gave a sh!t until they had nuke capability. Check out Discovery Times and watch the Documentary done on NK. They have friggin prison camps for the families of defectors. You can get sent there for just about anything...What would you suggest we do? Bomb them? It's not like we have a two front war now that we have to worry about...Damn, there is a lot of ugly sh!t happening all over the world. We can't change cultures with bombs and guns.

[deadjeep]

Maybe we should send a bunch of the child molestors in our prisons to Iraq to wander the streets....

[Budman]

Let's not be retarded. This sh!t has been happening in NK for a long time. Nobody gave a sh!t until they had nuke capability. Check out Discovery Times and watch the Documentary done on NK. They have friggin prison camps for the families of defectors. You can get sent there for just about anything...What would you suggest we do? Bomb them? It's not like we have a two front war now that we have to worry about...Damn, there is a lot of ugly sh!t happening all over the world. We can't change cultures with bombs and guns.

I don't need to watch the doc to understand NK. I just find it interesting that we have tens of thousands of troops stationed here ready to fend off the communist hordes at a moments notice, and no one seems to even know that it is going on.

As for changing cultures with bombs and guns... Wanna bet we can't??? What was the culture in Nazi Germany around 1940? What was it in 1949? What caused the change???

[TwoDogs]

Awwwww they just need a BIG hug! Maybe? in a car crusher?

[Gags]

I don't need to watch the doc to understand NK. I just find it interesting that we have tens of thousands of troops stationed here ready to fend off the communist hordes at a moments notice, and no one seems to even know that it is going on.

As for changing cultures with bombs and guns... Wanna bet we can't??? What was the culture in Nazi Germany around 1940? What was it in 1949? What caused the change???

Well, I think that the Nazi's were actually counter-culture to the rest of Germany. It was a popular culture event. It was a world war but did it dramatically change the culture of Germany, England, France...Not really. Damn, Hitler was trying to take over the World and governed a police state.

As far as NK, I had no real idea until I saw it. They are horrible.

[LONEWOLF]

World domination starts with one country at a time, then another and another. Its amazing to me how lack of respect for human rights exists in other countries, and some people here say we have it bad. They need to open there eyes.
Question: do we have the right as a nation to invade said country for the sake of human rights? Should we stop playing big brother?

I would also say as long as SK wants us there then the minute Nk gets out of line and crosses, we blast em! Shoot first then ask questions.

[cheftyler]

In answer to the Bud's question of: "Still think we should sit down at the table and talk to these "People"?" No, never thought we should sit down and talk to them.

[Gags]

It's important to be strategic in how we approach these things. NK is its own Country. We put pressure on them regarding their human rights record. But, it's still not ours. The people must make the movement from the inside. The military tool is the wrong tool to use in this situation.

[OlBlueCJ7]

World domination starts with one country at a time, then another and another.

Kinda like the US is doing now? :stirpot:

[Budman]

It's important to be strategic in how we approach these things. NK is its own Country. We put pressure on them regarding their human rights record. But, it's still not ours. The people must make the movement from the inside. The military tool is the wrong tool to use in this situation.

Actually, from a human rights perspective I agree with you on this one.

I think the extent of our military commitment to this fight should be strictly Defensive. However, we must maintain a strict diplomatic policy of not allowing the assbag who runs that country to be able to push us around.

Now if they become a national security problem (messing with South korea is a risk to our national security btw:) then we blast them with all we have. IF this war ever really happens, it is goig to be like nothing recent generations have ever seen. This is not going to be like fighting the Taliban, or Saddam's military. It is going to be a nasty slug fest with lots of soliders lost on both sides.

Kinda like the US is doing now? :stirpot:

Next is Mexico, then Canada. I think they would both make great colonies.

[1BGDOG]

Another of our enemies!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

[Budman]

Good point. Wish we could deal with them with military force

[1BGDOG]

Good point. Wish we could deal with them with military force

I agree with you!!! :eek::beer:

[LONEWOLF]

Kinda like the US is doing now? :stirpot:

I see what you are TRYING to stir but not exacary, if we were trying for world domination we would have kept all the oil etc. in Iraq since hey we would then own it now, wouldn't we? We just like to blow money to help out other countries and pay to rebuild them so they can live to fight us another day. :stirpot:

[LONEWOLF]

We more or less want to be everyones big brother!
The world's police!

[theirishavenger]

Isn't there a movie like that? :shrug: ;) :D

[OlBlueCJ7]

The world's police!

There's a term for that, and "US Military" isn't it. Try 'Peacekeeper'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeepers)

[al24]

As for changing cultures with bombs and guns... Wanna bet we can't??? What was the culture in Nazi Germany around 1940? What was it in 1949? What caused the change???
Just saying....56,000,000 civilian and military casualties. That's dead, not wounded.

[Sound_Man]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7260534.stm

[LONEWOLF]

There's a term for that, and "US Military" isn't it. Try 'Peacekeeper'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeepers)

Call it what you want, you can paint a turd but its still a turd. The only difference is there hands are tied.

[OlBlueCJ7]

Then don't be surprised when a terror attack happens again on US soil, as retribution for the US sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong.

[Clint]

Then don't be surprised when a terror attack happens again on US soil, as retribution for the US sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong.

Yeah, cause staying out of the fight works GREAT. Ask Spain.

[OlBlueCJ7]

Seems to be working just fine for probably 90% of the world's countries. Like England, Germany, Canada, Sweden, and countless others. What works for one, doesn't work for all.

All I'm saying is that if you force your views & culture on someone else (like the US does, imo), some of those people may not like that, and retaliate. We all laugh at Arab nations where women are required to be 'covered up' - but you know what? Who cares! It works for them! Why is the US trying to constantly change all the other countries to the American way of thinking?

[Clint]

Seems to be working just fine for probably 90% of the world's countries. Like England, Germany, Canada, Sweden, and countless others. What works for one, doesn't work for all.

All I'm saying is that if you force your views & culture on someone else (like the US does, imo), some of those people may not like that, and retaliate. We all laugh at Arab nations where women are required to be 'covered up' - but you know what? Who cares! It works for them! Why is the US trying to constantly change all the other countries to the American way of thinking?

It seems to me that Al-queda wants to force ITS views on the rest of the world.

Canada: CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/03/canada.terror/) story on foiled attack

History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_attacks_in_Canada) of attacks in Canada

England: CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.security/index.html) story on foiled attack

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings) on July 7 2005 bombings

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.tube/index.html) article on same bombings

Germany (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/12/germany.terror.ap/index.html): Lebanese officials warn Germany of potential attack

Why (http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1307&date=20050420) are swedes worried about being unprepared for terrorist attacks?

Swede (http://www.thelocal.se/9984/20080214/) citizen held for Al-Queda ties...

Air-France (http://gofrance.about.com/b/a/2003_12.htm) flights cancelled due to terrorist threats

Bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Paris_Metro_bombing) in Paris

Terrorism Knowledge Base (http://www.tkb.org/)

Im assuming there are more countries we can talk about, but it hasnt *worked* for any of them.

[OlBlueCJ7]

Sure, I can google too, bud. Matter of fact, I can probably find a google hit to support just about any theory I want. Here's a cookie, good job. :rolleyes:

It's my opinion, and I stand by it: the US's Foreign Policy is attrocious, and it get's innocent American's killed. And it's going to keep happening until Americans can pull their heads out of their collective asses, and realize that their way isn't the only way.

I'm done with this fruitless argument.

[Clint]

Sure, I can google too, bud. Matter of fact, I can probably find a google hit to support just about any theory I want. Here's a cookie, good job. :rolleyes:

It's my opinion, and I stand by it: the US's Foreign Policy is attrocious, and it get's innocent American's killed. And it's going to keep happening until Americans can pull their heads out of their collective asses, and realize that their way isn't the only way.

I'm done with this fruitless argument.

So do it. Google something that supports the fact that those countries are safe. News stories arent theories, they are FACTS, no matter how biased, be it CNN or Fox, they still HAPPENED, and happened to the countries that you say are safe. You stated it as fact, but now its "your opinion". Nice out though, quit while you are behind. You can keep your cookie.

[Budman]

Seems to be working just fine for probably 90% of the world's countries. Like England, Germany, Canada, Sweden, and countless others. What works for one, doesn't work for all.

:bs:

[sames]

Canada would be a free Prosperous country without is southern neighbor ....

uh huh, sure it would.

[Clint]

When the hell are people going to stop pointing at (country here) foreign policy and realize that terrorists want TERROR! They dont give a rip if you are appeasing them, fighting them, feeding them cookies, whatever. They want EVERYONE else GONE.

[sames]

LEFT = idealist

RIGHT = realist

Today's times require a large dose of the latter.

[TheCopperCowboy]

LEFT = idealist

RIGHT = realist

Today's times require a large dose of the latter.

So, you're saying we need more artsy-fartsy types? :flipoff2:

[Yucca-Man]

Yeah, cause staying out of the fight works GREAT. Ask Spain.Ask Neville Chamberlain about the success of that policy....

[LONEWOLF]

I only see two reasons to fight another country or invade another country:
1. If we are asked to help a country due to whatever reason 2. If we are attacked. We really shouldn't butt in to other countries busines once again unless asked or attacked. We wouldn't like it if red China came over here and told us how to run our country, would we. We do not have to agree with our enemies but its not our business to change them either. I am definately not against fighting, we just need to do it for the right reasons. Just because isn't a reason.

[Budman]

Just because isn't a reason.

Says Who???