Romney "suspends" campaign

[Big Dave]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/07/romney.campaign/index.html

Looks like McCain should walk away with the Republican nomination.

[Steve]

Crying from right wing fringe in 5......4......3......2.....1.....

:flipoff2:

[DaJudge]

http://c.msn.com/c.gif?NC=1255&NA=1154&PS=73838&PI=7329&DI=305&TP=http%3a%2f%2fmsnbc.msn.com%2f
MSNBC.com

McCain seals GOP nod as Romney suspends

By LIZ SIDOTI
Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON - John McCain effectively sealed the Republican presidential
nomination on Thursday as chief rival Mitt Romney suspended his faltering
presidential campaign. "I must now stand aside, for our party and our
country," Romney prepared to tell conservatives.

"If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would
forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that
Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply
cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror," Romney
will say at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington.

"This is not an easy decision for me. I hate to lose. My family, my friends
and our supporters... many of you right here in this room... have given a
great deal to get me where I have a shot at becoming President. If this
were only about me, I would go on. But I entered this race because I love
America, and because I love America."

McCain prevailed in most of the Super Tuesday states, moving closer to the
numbers needed to officially win the nomination.

Overall, McCain led with 707 delegates, to 294 for Romney and 195 for
Huckabee. It takes 1,191 to win the nomination at this summer's convention
in St. Paul, Minn.

"I disagree with Senator McCain on a number of issues, as you know. But I
agree with him on doing whatever it takes to be successful in Iraq, on
finding and executing Osama bin Laden, and on eliminating al-Qaida and
terror," Romney said.

Romney acknowledged the obstacles to beating McCain.

"As of today, more than 4 million people have given me their vote for
president, less than Senator McCain's 4.7 million, but quite a statement
nonetheless. Eleven states have given me their nod, compared to his 13. Of
course, because size does matter, he's doing quite a bit better with his
number of delegates," Romney said in prepared remarks.

Romney's departure from the race came almost a year after his formal
entrance, when the Michigan native declared his candidacy on Feb. 12,
2007, at the Henry Ford Museum of Innovation in Dearborn, Mich.

Over the ensuing 12 months, Romney sought the support of conservatives
with a family values campaign, emphasizing his opposition to abortion and
gay marriage, as well as his support for tax cuts and health insurance that
would benefit middle-class families.

"We need to teach our children that before they have babies, they get
married," he told voters at his campaign events.

But he was dogged by charges of flip-flopping, a criticism that undermined
the candidacy of another Massachusetts hopeful _ John Kerry in 2004. In
seeking to unseat Sen. Edward M. Kennedy in 1994, Romney said he would
be a better advocate for gay rights than his rival and he favored abortion
rights.

Throughout his campaign, Romney was questioned by voters and the media
about his Mormon faith. Hoping assuage voters skeptical of electing a
Mormon president, Romney gave speech on Dec. 6 in College Station,
Texas, that explicitly recalled remarks John F. Kennedy made in 1960 in an
effort to quell anti-Catholic bias. He vowed to serve the interests of the
nation, not the church, if elected president.

In early voting Iowa, Romney sought votes by casting himself as the
guardian of the Reagan-era conservative triad _ a three-legged stool, as
the candidate put it _ of a strong national defense, strong economy and
strong families.

Fueled by what would grow to more than $35 million of personal donations,
his campaign hired top-notch staff in the early voting states, and Romney
scored an early win when his organization topped the field at the Iowa
Straw Poll in August.

By that time, the national front-runners, McCain and former New York
Mayor Rudy Giuliani, had virtually ceded the lead-voting state to Romney.

Instead, McCain focused on New Hampshire, second on the calendar, while
Giuliani employed an untested strategy of waiting out the early primary
contests and instead staking his candidacy on a strong showing in the Jan.
29 Florida primary.

Romney's goal was to score back-to-back wins in Iowa and New Hampshire,
clearing the field and creating momentum to roll through Florida _ where he
enjoyed the support of top aides to former Gov. Jeb Bush _ and seal the
nomination in the Super Tuesday contests.

Instead, Romney was beaten Jan. 3 in Iowa by former Arkansas Gov. Mike
Huckabee, a former Southern Baptist minister who received an unexpected
outpouring of support in the caucuses from voters identifying themselves as
evangelicals.

Five days later, Romney suffered a second consecutive defeat in New
Hampshire, when McCain won the primary in part with the support of
independents attracted to his self-styled maverick campaign.

Romney, who headed the 2002 Winter Olympic Games in Salt Lake City,
tried to cast each defeat in competitive terms, saying his second-place
finishes amount to "silver medals." He also highlighted the "gold" he won in
between and in the little-watched Wyoming caucuses.

Nonetheless, Romney took a cue from Huckabee's win, as well as Democrat
Barack Obama's Iowa upset of rival Hillary Rodham Clinton, as a sign voters
wanted change in Washington.

On the stump, he retooled his speech to harken back to the theme he
broached in Dearborn, that America's future, and that of its government,
were dependent on innovation. His campaign also hung new banners
reading, "Washington is Broken," as well as a to-do list Romney would
complete as president.

Romney and McCain went head-to-head in the Jan. 13 Michigan primary,
and Romney won, in part by highlighting his background as a business
consultant and venture capitalist. When McCain acknowledged what
seemed to be obvious, that not all of Detroit's lost auto industry jobs would
be recovered, Romney pounced.

He accused the senator of pessimism, outlining a $20 billion industry
recovery package and telling audiences in economically ailing Michigan, "I
will fight for every single job."

Romney also tweaked his stump speech to criticize McCain for stating that
he was more familiar with foreign affairs and military matters than economic
issues.

Highlighting his 25-year business career, he told audiences, "Senator
McCain says the economy is not his strong suit; well, it is my strong suit."

As the calendar progressed, however, McCain picked up a big-ticket win in
the Jan. 19 South Carolina primary. Romney instead focused on his victory
in the Nevada caucuses the same day.

Ten days later, the two squared off again in the Florida primary, where
McCain scored a major upset after winning endorsements from the state's
two top elected Republicans _ Gov. Charlie Crist, a popular figure who had
previously said he planned to remain neutral in the race, and Sen. Mel
Martinez.

The following day, Giuliani dropped out of the race and endorsed McCain. A
day later, popular California Gov. Arnold Schwarzeneger announced his
endorsement of McCain, reflecting a coalescing of Republican support
behind the senator as he approached a Super Tuesday showdown with
Romney.

Romney's final pitch was to label McCain a liberal like Clinton and Obama, a
charge tantamount to heresy in the GOP. He was backed by conservative
media voices like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22285810/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22285810/)

[ZappBranigan]

Crying from right wing fringe in 5......4......3......2.....1.....

:flipoff2:

Oh, they started their crying last month. Now they're in "full sulk" mode and talking about taking their ball and going home. :rolleyes:

[Steve]

You know this ain't what Billary and Obama want to hear. While McCain can now concentrate on fundraising for the general election and picking a running mate they will continue to beat each other up and bleed money all the way to the Dem's convention in August. :)

[scottycards]

$40 million of his personal dough. I don't care how rich you are, that's gonna leave a mark.

And then there were two.........

[jnschwie]

Wow. Aren't approximately half the states left?

I did not get the impression this was over by a longshot. :shrug:

[Big Dave]

You know this ain't what Billary and Obama want to hear. While McCain can now concentrate on fundraising for the general election and picking a running mate they will continue to beat each other up and bleed money all the way to the Dem's convention in August. :)

And that's what makes me :D .

[Steve]

Wow. Aren't approximately half the states left?

I did not get the impression this was over by a longshot. :shrug:

Romney has 270 delegates to McCain's 680. Reality is a harsh thing. :shrug:

[scottycards]

Here is the latest on each candidates financial situation, for reference.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

Looks like Hillary has about 37 mil on hand, Barack 18 mil, and McCain 3.

[Steve]

Here is the latest on each candidates financial situation, for reference.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

Looks like Hillary has about 37 mil on hand, Barack 18 mil, and McCain 3.

Hmmm...on the Today show this morning they said Billary's hurting for $$$ while Obama is flush with cash. :shrug:

[jnschwie]

Curious though from yesterday:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080205/super_tuesday_080206/20080206?hub=CTVNewsAt11

Romney, his closest rival, managed to pull ahead in North Dakota, Utah, Montana, Minnesota and Massachusetts, where he served as governor.

"We're going to keep battling," Romney vowed at a rally in Boston. "We're going to go all the way to the convention and we're going to win this thing."

[jnschwie]

Here is the latest on each candidates financial situation, for reference.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

Looks like Hillary has about 37 mil on hand, Barack 18 mil, and McCain 3.

Wowsers. :laughing:

[scottycards]

I'd probably give more credence to offical disclosures than the Today show.

National polls show both Barack and Hillary winning against McCain, if they team up, it's definitely a done deal, and just judging by the sheer numbers of Dems showing up to caucuses/primaries vs. Pubs, this one ain't gonna be even close.

McCain is a strong candidate, however, and I think he'd be an excellent president. This is shaping up to be a no-lose contest, as far as I'm concerned.

All smiles here.

[Jake_Blues]

Here is the latest on each candidates financial situation, for reference.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

Looks like Hillary has about 37 mil on hand, Barack 18 mil, and McCain 3.

Those numbers are a little misleading though, because 20 mil of Hillary's cash is reserved for the general election, meaning she can't spend it on these primaries. Also, Hillary "lent" her campaign 5 million of her own money, while Obama's campaign is only about 800k in debt.

Right now, Obama is ahead in fundraising, according to Hillary. We'll see how it turns out, but money is a big factor in all this.

-E

[scottycards]

Good info, Jake. I would not have known that about the 20 mil.

[Jake_Blues]

I'd probably give more credence to offical disclosures than the Today show.

National polls show both Barack and Hillary winning against McCain, if they team up, it's definitely a done deal, and just judging by the sheer numbers of Dems showing up to caucuses/primaries vs. Pubs, this one ain't gonna be even close.

McCain is a strong candidate, however, and I think he'd be an excellent president. This is shaping up to be a no-lose contest, as far as I'm concerned.

All smiles here.

I'd be relatively happy with either McCain or Obama, but Hillary has got to go! :D

-E

[Waifer2112]

Prediction:

If it's Clinton vs. McCain, McCain wins.

If it's Obama vs. McCain, Obama wins.

[Gags]

Prediction:

If it's Clinton vs. McCain, McCain wins.

If it's Obama vs. McCain, Obama wins.

X2

[Waifer2112]

I'd be relatively happy with either McCain or Obama, but Hillary has got to go! :D

-E

Truer words were never spoken!

[jnschwie]

Prediction:

If it's Clinton vs. McCain, McCain wins.

If it's Obama vs. McCain, Obama wins, the middle class loses.

Fixed. :thumbsup:

[scottycards]

Actually, both are slightly edging out McCain currently. Here is a great site that shows a whole bunch of polls, the exact wording of the questions, etc.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

HTH

[Big Dave]

I still don't see this country actually putting a woman or a black man in the Oval Office.

[jnschwie]

One many believe to be a muslim, at that.

[scottycards]

I still don't see this country actually putting a woman or a black man in the Oval Office.

Why? Racism and sexism? :shrug:

[Jake_Blues]

I just don't want Obama to screw with my ability to own firearms :( He regularly votes FOR gun control.

-E

[Big Dave]

Why? Racism and sexism? :shrug:

Pretty much. Anyone that tries to tell me racism and sexism are not alive and well in this country is hitting the pipe.

[Pilot]

I think Romney cut a deal with McCain to become the VP running mate.

[Steve]

Actually, both are slightly edging out McCain currently. Here is a great site that shows a whole bunch of polls, the exact wording of the questions, etc.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

HTH

The election isn't today, it's in November. Just sayin'. :flipoff2:

Ask the pollsters about how Hew Hampshire turned out for 'em. :laughing:

[scottycards]

I just don't want Obama to screw with my ability to own firearms :( He regularly votes FOR gun control.

-E

Do you really think Joe Average Citizen would ever be denied the right to bear arms in this country?

A few forms to fill out, maybe, a waiting period maybe, but I'm surprised that anyone would vote on just that single issue, particularly when the chances of any real obstacles to gun ownership would ever get through are so slim. The NRA has a hell of a lobby.

I know, slippery slope......and I agree. I just think the guy has so much to offer- he's friggin bright.

[Steve]

Why? Racism and sexism? :shrug:

Well, yeah. Look at who's voting for whom. Dem blacks are voting overwhelmingly for Obama. Why? Race, plain and simple. Dem women are voting for Billary. Why? Sex, plain and simple. It should be about issues, but that ain't how a whole lot of people vote unfortunately. :shrug:

[jnschwie]

Do you really think Joe Average Citizen would ever be denied the right to bear arms in this country?

A few forms to fill out, maybe, a waiting period maybe, but I'm surprised that anyone would vote on just that single issue, particularly when the chances of any real obstacles to gun ownership would ever get through are so slim. The NRA has a hell of a lobby.

I know, slippery slope......and I agree. I just think the guy has so much to offer- he's friggin bright.

Bright and socialist are mutually exclusive. :thumbsdown:

[scottycards]

Neanderthals.- the sexists and racists, that is.

[Jake_Blues]

Do you really think Joe Average Citizen would ever be denied the right to bear arms in this country?

A few forms to fill out, maybe, a waiting period maybe, but I'm surprised that anyone would vote on just that single issue, particularly when the chances of any real obstacles to gun ownership would ever get through are so slim. The NRA has a hell of a lobby.

I know, slippery slope......and I agree. I just think the guy has so much to offer- he's friggin bright.

He wanted to renew the assault weapon ban, and he supports the DC handgun ban, etc. I doubt that gun ownership as a whole will disappear anytime soon, but anti-gun people are winning victories in many areas like California and DC.

-E

[scottycards]

He wanted to renew the assault weapon ban, and he supports the DC handgun ban, etc. I doubt that gun ownership as a whole will disappear anytime soon, but anti-gun people are winning victories in many areas like California and DC.

-E

I hear ya. Definitely don't want to open up that subject in this thread, however. :thumbsup:

I think there are more important issues facing this country today. Just my opinion, however. I'm sure that's not the case for some.

[jredmond]

One many believe to be a muslim, at that.

Barack is not a muslim

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

My vote is for NOT HILARY

[jnschwie]

Barack is not a muslim

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

My vote is for NOT HILARY

I would've used the same link to prove my point...

[scottycards]

The muslim thing, and anyone who might believe it, are both so ridiculous that they would bring no credibility to an intelligent discussion of the candidates and their positions.

But of course, there are those who will believe that BS..........

I have to inclination to debate that ridiculous topic with them.

[jnschwie]

But, like it or not, they are out there.




I could provide them with plenty of other reasons to dislike him, but they don't ask me.

[Jake_Blues]

But, like it or not, they are out there.


Stupid people are everywhere, and politics seems to draw them in droves!

-E

[scottycards]

But, like it or not, they are out there.



Yes, they are. Hey man, I'm in sales. I could tell you "idiot stories" for days on end. Seriously, guys who will step over a hundred dollar bill to pick up a dime.

Just when I think I've met the ultimate idiot, another one comes along. The secret is educating them, without letting them know what an idiot they are/have been.

When they reach the conclusion that is correct, you just slap them on the back, and tell them they're a friggin' genius.

[Waifer2112]

Swiftboating. :rolleyes:

You know they're scared when that's all they got.

[Gags]

I'm a bit surprised nobody has made an attempt at taking Obama out. I really like him. But racism is alive and well in the US. I will vote for him if he gets the nomination.

[scottycards]

Romney Drops Out of Presidential Race
By JOHN SULLIVAN and MICHAEL LUO
Published: February 7, 2008
Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor who sought to position himself as the true conservative choice for the Republican presidential nomination, announced Thursday afternoon that he had ended his campaign.

My favorite source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/us/politics/07cnd-repubs.html?hp

:D :D :D

[Jeff Mason]

Swiftboating. :rolleyes:

You know they're scared when that's all they got.

Care to elaborate? I am confused on how that fits into this thread ?!?!

[scottycards]

Holy cow- another forum I go to, which has a Politics, Religion, and Controversy sub-forum on it, and is about as right-wing as it gets- these guys are BUMMED.

Like slit-your-wrists bummed. Lots of talk about not voting, letting the Dem win just to prove a point, etc.

Pretty darn shocking. Man, these guys live, eat, and breathe Republicanism, and they are sad puppies........

BTW- McCain's nickname over there is McAmnesty..............they call Hillary Thunder Thighs- pretty funny stuff.

[jnschwie]

Pretty sad stuff if you ask me.

[Gags]

Holy cow- another forum I go to, which has a Politics, Religion, and Controversy sub-forum on it, and is about as right-wing as it gets- these guys are BUMMED.

Like slit-your-wrists bummed. Lots of talk about not voting, letting the Dem win just to prove a point, etc.

Pretty darn shocking. Man, these guys live, eat, and breathe Republicanism, and they are sad puppies........

BTW- McCain's nickname over there is McAmnesty..............they call Hillary Thunder Thighs- pretty funny stuff.

The almost religous like fervor people have for frigging politicians is unsettling. It's like they HATE the opposing sides opinions and people...WTF, nobody deserves blind hate.

[scottycards]

Nothing in Tuesday's results spoke as strongly to me as how once again the Democrat race has motivated, in most cases, near or more than TWICE the vote than that on the Republican side of the equation.

Change is a comin'..............buckle up, here we go. Personally, I can't wait.

[Camp]

I think Romney cut a deal with McCain to become the VP running mate.


That is what I was thinking. From the GOP standpoint, this would make a strong team. Romney could bring in the true conservative votes and McCain grabs those in the middle. Seems like a winning combination from what little I know about who they each appeal to.

[scottycards]

Lieberman will be McCain's VP.

[Waifer2112]

Care to elaborate? I am confused on how that fits into this thread ?!?!

That Obama's a Muslim, and is gonna convert the whole U.S.

[jredmond]

I would've used the same link to prove my point...

These are some other good links that say he is not a muslim. Sorry I forgot to add them to my origional post.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22767392/

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/politics/14789437/detail.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/28/AR2007112802757.html

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_has_never_been_a_muslim_1.php

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html?start=1

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index.html?eref=yahoo

[jnschwie]

These are some other good links that say he is not a muslim. Sorry I forgot to add them to my origional post.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22767392/

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/politics/14789437/detail.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/28/AR2007112802757.html

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_has_never_been_a_muslim_1.php

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html?start=1

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index.html?eref=yahoo

That FURTHER proves my point.
If "many people" didn't believe that he was/is a muslim, would there be any reason for all those emails, snopes, and the variety of links? (no)

No one (here) is asserting the crazed socialist is a muslim as well, pay attention. In the face of your own posts, however, it is difficult to deny the sentiment is out there. ;)

[jredmond]

That FURTHER proves my point.
If "many people" didn't believe that he was/is a muslim, would there be any reason for all those emails, snopes, and the variety of links? (no)

No one (here) is asserting the crazed socialist is a muslim as well, pay attention. In the face of your own posts, however, it is difficult to deny the sentiment is out there. ;)

I agree with you. Many people have the false impression that he is a muslim. These are some of the articals I have sent out to some of the misinformed people I know that thought he was a muslim. I would have put them all in my first post but this damn phone wont stop ringing.

I dont care much for the mud slinging that these two have been doing. It does suck that some people get stuck on the lies and forget to focus on the facts about the canidates.

[Tom N]

Obviously Romney did not get his fortune by being foolish.
Check out this picture I just got off pirate.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/bbigtn/Campaign.jpg


It was part of this news story showing a campaign office for Obama in the background.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=5700252&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

So a news channel links Obama to Che. That cracks me up. And since I love a good conspiracy theory I have to wonder about Rushie and Annie. :rolleyes: I already liked McCain and the fact that they have publicly disavowed him makes me laugh because it's good news to me. Smells like fish a little though.:silly: :laughing: But I am just an average dumbass, not a demagogue. :hail: :lolly:

[jnschwie]

I agree with you. Many people have the false impression that he is a muslim. These are some of the articals I have sent out to some of the misinformed people I know that thought he was a muslim. I would have put them all in my first post but this damn phone wont stop ringing.

I dont care much for the mud slinging that these two have been doing. It does suck that some people get stuck on the lies and forget to focus on the facts about the canidates.

Hillary's folks wouldn't have jumped in on it if it weren't working.

Expect this to get uglier still.

[Steve]

Change is a comin'..............buckle up, here we go. Personally, I can't wait.

That's the only word Obama will use. Unfortunately he never explains what he'll change or how he'll change it, but the sheeple at his speeches nearly have an orgasm every time he utters the word.

[jnschwie]

That's the only word Obama will use. Unfortunately he never explains what he'll change or how he'll change it, but the sheeple at his speeches nearly have an orgasm every time he utters the word.

While not affecting your salary, he WILL change how much money actually sees deposit at your bank. :flipoff2:

[Steve]

While not affecting your salary, he WILL change how much money actually sees deposit at your bank. :flipoff2:

True. :(

[Waifer2112]

While not affecting your salary, he WILL change how much money actually sees deposit at your bank. :flipoff2:

Will we have to start paying for the war, then?

Bummer! I was hoping to lay it off on the next generation, as I won't be having kids. :flipoff2:

[Pilot]

Lieberman will be McCain's VP.

Ya know everytime I see McCain speaking, Joe Lieberman is standing behind him and that has crossed my mind too. I think that would be a stupid move by McCain as while I like Lieberman as an individual, he is a classic tax and spend Liberal. McCain is already seen as liberal enough, so Romney would be a better choice. If McCain can get the traditional Republicans and the moderate swing vote he can win. He already will get the moderate swing vote by himself he needs the core Republicans.

[Steve]

Will we have to start paying for the war, then?

We should be already by cutting out all earmarks and stupid spending, but neither party wants to do that. Of the two, the Dems want to add far more spending to the federal budget than the Reps.

[scottycards]

While not affecting your salary, he WILL change how much money actually sees deposit at your bank. :flipoff2:

You know, while I can see the point of the tax crazed people, who are so ferverent about cuts, I need to see the math.

Bush's famous tax cuts yield the following results for me. Income bracket from 97K- 205K per year. $1,200. That's after the whole deal is said and done- max benefit. This is in 2010, when the deal is maxed out.

Source: Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy Tax Model
Citizens for Tax Justice.

We're talking literally a hundred bucks a month to someone making between 97K and 205K per year. While it's definitely a non-zero sum, it ain't exactly going to change my lifestyle. Not one bit.

So why do people get so wrapped up in the tax thing? I mean, we're talking a tank of gas or two per month for someone making 6 figures. Hell, if I pick up the check for a couple of friends at dinner instead of going dutch, I'm over that figure.

I understand the principle of getting all wrapped around the axle over taxes, but in reality, those tax cuts just don't add up to much dough.

There are just some things I don't easily understand. A hundred bucks a month must be one of them, apparently...........

The civility of the political discussions on the board here today is refreshing.:thumbsup:

[scottycards]

Of the two, the Dems want to add far more spending to the federal budget than the Reps.

Possibly, but the data from the CATO Institute suggests otherwise:

Over eight years, Bush has presided over a huge 67 percent increase in total federal outlays. The comparable figure for President Clinton's eight years was just 32 percent.

....Bush administration has introduced yet a federal budget, which this year features a $400 billion deficit and spending that tops $3 trillion. Amazingly, this president was also in office when federal spending topped $2 trillion (back in 2002).

I must be missing something here, again. :shrug:

[Steve]

Scotty, what bugs me about the Dem's rhetoric about the Bush tax cuts is that they incessantly say that they were for "the rich" and didn't benefit the middle class. That's just a baldfaced lie. I'm curious, what's the impact on someone making, say, $50k? I agree that $100/month ain't gonna hurt me either, but undoing those cuts WILL increase taxes on the middle class. The Dems conveniently "forget" to ever mention that.

Then there's the issue of whether tax cuts are more than offset by increased economic activity bringing in more revenue than would have happened if taxes weren't increased. I know most Dems choose not to believe that is possible, but there's a lot of facts to back it up. It's not as simple as increasing taxes = increasing federal tax revenue. It's a whole lot more complicated than that.

And no, you're not missing anything. GWB has increased spending far too much IMO. I was referring to the current candidates, not the past.

[Big Dave]

Couple hundred bucks a month would definitely make a difference for me.

[scottycards]

Well, I looked up the 50K thing, and here's what the data suggests:

If you're making 36-59K, you're in the middle 20%, and your total tax savings will be tax cut of 12.6% of your total tax bill.

The 97-205K group will get a tax cut of 14.6% of their average total tax bill.

The big ballers like you (205-518K) will get a 6.1% cut, and the super big ballers like jnschwie (518K or more) will get a cut of 39.9%.

Here's the chart. Hey, I'm just the messenger, I really don't care much about a hundred bucks a month, but it's interesting.

http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm

[jnschwie]

I understand the principle of getting all wrapped around the axle over taxes, but in reality, those tax cuts just don't add up to much dough.

I think we need to make the distinction between making the Bush cuts permanent vs. lobbying new and additional taxes (ie. more than prior to Bush) to pay for some of the ambitious social re-engineering both he (and others) would like.

I'll concede that not paying for a war will save a lot of money.....it won't be enough to fund SS, Medicare/caid, and any programs he would like beyond those. So does he cut other programs, or increase taxes.

There's definitely a lot of fat to be cut, but speaking from my life, I don't know a democrat who met a tax s/he didn't like.


The civility of the political discussions on the board here today is refreshing.:thumbsup:

Concur. :) :beer:




And BTW to Steve, if 97-205k AGI isn't middle class, I'm not sure what is! :confused:

[jnschwie]

The big ballers like you (205-518K) will get a 6.1% cut, and the super big ballers like jnschwie (518K or more) will get a cut of 39.9%.


Pfft. :laughing:

If that were the case, I could afford to be a democrat! :flipoff2:



:beer: :beer: :beer:

[scottycards]

Couple hundred bucks a month would definitely make a difference for me.

To save a "couple hundred bucks a month", you will have to have income of over 205K.

If you don't make 205K, you ain't saving a couple hundie a month, so the logic isn't there.

[ZappBranigan]

I really don't care much about a hundred bucks a month...


In that case, feel free to send it my way. :thumbsup:
:D

[Steve]

And BTW to Steve, if 97-205k AGI isn't middle class, I'm not sure what is! :confused:

Depends on who you ask I suppose. That's a big spread, and I'm sure you could find a whole lot of people who would say that's above middle class. I bet if you ask 10 people on the street they'd consider the upper range of that to be "the rich." :shrug:

[ni0h]

I still don't see this country actually putting a woman or a black man in the Oval Office.

How about just not either of those? My personal dream candidate is Condoleeza Rice. I hope she takes a job soon that grooms her to run.

As far as the OP: I made the same decision a few weeks ago. It was really gratifying to see my reasoning articulated by the WSJ, most recently http://online.wsj.com/article/wonder_land.html

Get him in there, win this war, and count on the things he has to say to get elected to restrain him from indulging in his occasional bizarre liberal impulses.

[jnschwie]

I guess. It definitely is rich by world wealth, but our "poor" people have it fabulous compared to much of the world.

[SUPERGILDO43]

Well, yeah. Look at who's voting for whom. Dem blacks are voting overwhelmingly for Obama. Why? Race, plain and simple. Dem women are voting for Billary. Why? Sex, plain and simple. It should be about issues, but that ain't how a whole lot of people vote unfortunately. :shrug:

The job of any cadidate is to relate to their voting audience. I dont see any more likely way to relate then to your own demographic. Now, I think negative actions based on race, or the fact that someone would only vote for obama cause he is black is just plain moronic...

[SUPERGILDO43]

How about just not either of those? My personal dream candidate is Condoleeza Rice. I hope she takes a job soon that grooms her to run.


I am pretty sure she is neither black NOR a woman :flipoff2:

[SUPERGILDO43]

I guess. It definitely is rich by world wealth, but our "poor" people have it fabulous compared to much of the world.

but I dont think its something for anybody to say "quit complaining homeless man, I haiti they dont even have newspapers"...

[TheCopperCowboy]

No way Romney is going to play second fiddle to Grandpa McCain. He'll wait it out until 2012 and "hope" the Dems will screw something up. My prediction - 2020. :cool:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#Gun_control

Gun control
In a speech before the National Rifle Association in 2007, McCain announced that he pledges to uphold the Second Amendment should he be elected president.[82]

McCain has received fair to poor ratings on gun issues from the National Rifle Association, garnering a C+.[83]

Other organizations have been more sharply critical; according to a review[84] by Gun Owners of America (GOA), "in 2001, McCain went from being a supporter of anti-gun bills to being a lead sponsor." McCain's GOA rating is F-.

McCain voted against the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and the efforts to renew it, as well as the Brady Bill.

[scottycards]

The job of any cadidate is to relate to their voting audience...

I agree. Like it or not, politics is a popularity contest. And Bush really screwed himself and his party when he continued to move forward on issues that the American people did not want him to.

Serve the desires of your voters, and you'll do well. Declare yourself supreme ruler and do whatever you want (regardless of the opinion of the voters and the rest of the world), and you end up where the Republican party is today. Hosed.

You've gotta listen to the public. GWB did not do that, and now the people are pizzed.

[Sound_Man]

It is a sad time that we live in that these are the best the country has to offer for the leader of the free world. This position has more power than any other office in the country and puts that person in control of the strongest military on the planet. Maybe not the strongest but certainly the best equipped and best trained.

Change is going to happen. The way I see it we are in for at least 4 years of bad times no matter what your profession is. We are all going to feel the effects of the new president and their administration. In a nutshell this is what I see happening;

Hillary and whatever VP she decides gets elected. Taxes go through the roof with the tax and spend congress we already have. She will appoint 2 or 3 supreme court justices (this will make more of an impact than anything else). The supreme court will change the constitution to suit her desires. There will be no need for the 9th circuit court of appeals to stay in business. Wages will be garnished for a socialist health care system and that will be the beginning of the socialist take over by our government. I really shouldn't say the beginning, we have more it's good for you legislation than we should now. We will withdraw all of the troops from the middle east and allow a breeding ground for our enemies to start all over again. She will finish what Bill started and cut even more of the agencies that track and monitor our enemies and give them a chance to really attack us. Not just fly a couple planes into big buildings but really put a hurt on a couple major cities. The military will be cut in size and funding. Our economy will be hurt even more as more companies will outsource due to over taxation. This administration has the best chance at starting revolution/revolt from within the country.
-or-
McCain and whatever VP he chooses goes in and there will be some change to taxes but not as bad as the democratic party would like to see it so he will be in a constant fight with the democratic majority in congress at least until the next election. The war we are in will continue to be funded but it will be a struggle. We may give a couple nukes to a small country and let them blow the crap out of one or two of our enemies. The 9th circuit court of appeals will stay in business because the justices that he would put in place believe that the constitution is more than toilet paper. The laws on immigration that we already have will be enforced and there will be a period of amnesty for the people that have already come here. Health care will be up to the individual and federal funding to aid health care will not receive a lot of attention.
-or-
Obama gets elected and a nut job in a white sheet is gonna whack him within 6 months. So whoever he chooses to be VP is now the president. More than likely they will be so far left that revolution starts immediately and we will have a new form of government after a 3 year war.


Some of that is a joke and some serious but thats my view on it. These are sad times for our country when thats the best we can come up with.

[Yota]

I think Romney cut a deal with McCain to become the VP running mate.

I considered that too and it is certainly plausible.

McCain needs support from the right and that might be a way to get some of it. But I'm not sure how much Romney helps McCain in the South. Huckabee certainly showed his ability to pull in the South.

But whatever the ticket ends up, I'll vote for it because, as Rosen often says, party trumps person.

[jnschwie]

I agree. Like it or not, politics is a popularity contest. And Bush really screwed himself and his party when he continued to move forward on issues that the American people did not want him to.

Serve the desires of your voters, and you'll do well.

See...that's the thing with Georgy.

You knew what he was going to do before he did it. Cowboy, soloist, whatever -at least Dubya was predictable. What you see is what you get, IMO. This was obvious to me, and people voted him in.

NOW, you can certainly argue that they voted him as the lesser of two evils, and that's a fine rebuttle. But to say George went ahead with things no one wanted.....He said he was doing it, and we all put him in a position to do so.

Can't complain now.

[ZappBranigan]

Yeah, McCain really has to pick someone with solid conservative credentials to back him up in the areas where he's weak. A Mike Huckabee or even a Fred Thompson could do that but my guess is it won't be any of the current or former candidates, it will probably be a prominent Southern governor or Senator.

[Gags]

Yeah, McCain really has to pick someone with solid conservative credentials to back him up in the areas where he's weak. A Mike Huckabee or even a Fred Thompson could do that but my guess is it won't be any of the current or former candidates, it will probably be a prominent Southern governor or Senator.

I bet he goes with Lieberman.

[starbreaker666]

Crying from right wing fringe in 5......4......3......2.....1.....

:flipoff2:


Great! Looks like I will either write a name in or simply stay home. There is no more choice.

[scottycards]

He said he was doing it, and we all put him in a position to do so.

Can't complain now.

Agreed, but just to give you a hard time, and in good humor:

A. I didn't vote for him.
B. It's debatable whether or not he actually won the last election.

Just kidding! ;)

[jnschwie]

Agreed, but just to give you a hard time, and in good humor:

A. I didn't vote for him.
B. It's debatable whether or not he actually won the last election.

Just kidding! ;)

For part B it may be debatable on the FIRST election (Gore).
He didn't have any trouble with Kerry. :)


For part A, you may complain. :beer: You may not be surprised, however.

[scottycards]

For part B it may be debatable on the FIRST election (Gore).
He didn't have any trouble with Kerry. :)


For part A, you may complain. :beer: You may not be surprised, however.

:beer: :beer: :beer:

Fawk, this togetherness thing the libs are pitching must be contaigous or something............

Even this board is civil. Me likey! :thumbsup:

[74BuckinBronc]

I think Romney cut a deal with McCain to become the VP running mate.


But Mccain said if you don't vote for me, vote for huckabee.

How YOU can become president:
http://www.amazon.com/Project-President-Botox-White-House/dp/159555100X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202424594&sr=8-1

I have not read it, but heard an interview with the author.

J.D.

[Yota]

No way Romney is going to play second fiddle to Grandpa McCain. He'll wait it out until 2012 and "hope" the Dems will screw something up. My prediction - 2020. :cool:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain#Gun_control

Gun control
In a speech before the National Rifle Association in 2007, McCain announced that he pledges to uphold the Second Amendment should he be elected president.[82]

McCain has received fair to poor ratings on gun issues from the National Rifle Association, garnering a C+.[83]

Other organizations have been more sharply critical; according to a review[84] by Gun Owners of America (GOA), "in 2001, McCain went from being a supporter of anti-gun bills to being a lead sponsor." McCain's GOA rating is F-.

McCain voted against the Federal Assault Weapons Ban and the efforts to renew it, as well as the Brady Bill.

I don't place any stock in what GOA says. They are dishonest when it comes to politics and they proved with their hype about the recent NICS improvement law. I won't refute their hysterics here, but suffice it to say they were flat wrong.

McCain ain't the best on guns but he ain't the worst either. He did vote against Feinstein's moronic semi-auto ban bill. The bills he voted for were small potatoes compared to that. So I actually think the NRA got his rating about right.

But on the other topic of who might be McCain's running mate, I just don't see what Liebermann gets him that he doesn't already have (the center).

I also considered the possibility that he might choose Colin Powell, but I think Powell is somewhat damaged goods after the Iraq WMD failed to match his predictions. I think he could point out that it was not HIS intel, but I also think that wouldn't matter a whole lot.

There's also talk of Gov. Haley Barber of Mississippi. But I don't think that adds much star power to the ticket.

But since he'll be facing a minority and the Republicans are so often accused of being the party by and for whitey, there probably will be pressure (wronghead IMHO) to add a chick or other minority to the ticket. But giving in to that is basically an admission that race/gender really matter more than issues. It's a trap, it's a mistake, but it's also politics.

McCain, IMHO, lacks fire in his rhetoric. Maybe he feels he doesn't need to be firey all the time. Seems to have worked so far. But when he uses his little girly speaking voice he just sounds boring to me. Bush is actually more inspiring in a prepared speech. Romney would add the fire factor. So would Powell. Barber = no idea (and he's white). Barber could reel in the South tho.

Who knows.

[scottycards]

JC Watts, dude!

Friggin great quarterback under Switzer back in the day.

[Sound_Man]

....McCain, IMHO, lacks fire in his rhetoric....

How much fire do you want?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAzBxFaio1I



:flipoff2:

[Yota]

I just don't like when he uses that nasally chick voice.

[Jeff Mason]

That Obama's a Muslim, and is gonna convert the whole U.S.

I understand your comment now. Seems more like fearmongering to me, but the same principles apply :thumbsup:

[Budman]

Prediction:

If it's Clinton vs. McCain, McCain wins.

If it's Obama vs. McCain, Obama wins.

X3

I just don't want Obama to screw with my ability to own firearms :( He regularly votes FOR gun control.

-E
X eleventy brazillians

I think Romney cut a deal with McCain to become the VP running mate.

This was my first thought as well

Do you really think Joe Average Citizen would ever be denied the right to bear arms in this country?

Ask the folks in CA, and NY. Then go ask the Canadians, and the Aussies.

Possibly, but the data from the CATO Institute suggests otherwise:

Over eight years, Bush has presided over a huge 67 percent increase in total federal outlays. The comparable figure for President Clinton's eight years was just 32 percent.

....Bush administration has introduced yet a federal budget, which this year features a $400 billion deficit and spending that tops $3 trillion. Amazingly, this president was also in office when federal spending topped $2 trillion (back in 2002).

I must be missing something here, again. :shrug:

While I won't defend Bush's spendind, we have to take into account that during the early days of his term, the United States of America was attacked on our own soil. Many of the changes we had to make after that were expensive.