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View Full Version : Linux (Ubuntu) People: Some Comments & Questions


Yota
February 6th, 2008, 11:00 AM
COMMENTS:

I am not willing to post this on the Linux boards because, after reading a LOT of those boards, I've decided that Linux people can be a little snotty toward people who are trying to transition from Windows. It's like they can't fathom why someone who is transitioning from a purely visual OS might not particularly dig having to learn a bunch of Unix-like command line crap.

Also, 80% of the forum answers you get to questions about a GUI-based app will involve command lines. It's like they compete with each other to see how many /z __--/&66^^^es0,,,t3r!c))) commands and switches they can use to answer your question about how to find some app you just installed. It's YOUR GUI, people. If the only way to do something is via CL then I'll pass, thanks.

It also seems that the phrase "windows-like" is a hot-button for Linux people. They are very sensitive about that. Yet it would be just as valid to ask for "Mac-like" as well. Yet they don't get so pissy about that. When people say "Windows-like" they invariably are referring to the good traits of Windows, not the bad. The ease of installation and use in particular. But Linux users are always quick to hiss out "Linux is not Windows!" as if that were helpful to anyone switching from Windows. Just mentioning the that you are wanting to switch from XP to Linux often brings derision. You may get help with your question but you also have to wade through the thinly-veiled insults and the numerous tirades against Microsoft.

But obviously, with the development of many of the nice GUIs for the various Linux distros, the Linux community in general is aware that they will not displace Windows with command-line crap; something that Windows ditched a decade or more ago. CL still has its place hidden away in batch files, of course.

I'm impressed in many ways with Linux and my infatuation with it is mainly derived from its price. But I'm willing to allow that the free versions may not be the best for someone who is transitioning unless that person is comfortable with tinkering and getting support from a forum (which I knew going in).

QUESTIONS:

1. I'm using Ubuntu Gutsy (7.10) 64-bit and am using Automatix for keeping it up-to-date (great app!!) but this question is way basic. I have been incredibly frustrated that when I install a new app from Synaptic Package Mgr or Add/Remove, I often cannot find that app under any of the menus. So I am left to assume that it's another CL app? But I don't have a clue how to find CL apps either. Is there some place from which I can see a list of -and launch - both CL and GUI apps?

The answers I've found for this have been poor. One of them suggested that I install the Debian menu, which I did. But then I couldn't see it where they said it would show up (on the Apps menu). I tried adding it but it would not accept it. Wow. The other answers involved mumbo jumbo about seeing all apps in Synaptics (true, but I can't launch from there to my knowledge). A good example is VNC. I've installed it over and over and yet I cannot find the damn thing. Also, clam antivirus. Can't find it either.

2. Wine. Gutsy comes with a graphical configuration tool for Wine. I configured this one executable that came with my case that supposedly has some nifty BIOS utilities - it's for XP. I configured that executable and now have no idea how to actually launch the thing in Wine. The instructions at WineHQ simply didn't work and/or didn't make sense. Anyone know how to use this tool? It sounds useful for certain things and I'd like to see what its limits are (I know it is very limited).

3. How does one go about switching from the default GNOME front-end to KDE? I can see that KDE is installed but how can I use it?

4. I'm planning on installing another Linux distro soon just to play the field. I'm playing with Ubuntu for my own learning purposes but ultimately I'm going to be giving this computer to my dad as a gift. He is not computer savvy and, from what I've seen, Ubuntu/GNOME is not ready for someone transitioning from Windows. It's good and all I guess but there are tons of problems that you have to work through. But my dad does enjoy browsing and e-mail and just goofing around. So I've heard that Freespire/Lindows is a decent OS (not free, but also not expensive). Is that true? I've heard PCLinuxOS is decent for transitioning also.

Yota
February 6th, 2008, 01:10 PM
bee tee tee

sumoweezle
February 6th, 2008, 01:53 PM
hey Yota,

i've just recently setup a ubuntu box for myself at work too. Ill see what i can find out about your questions and let you know.

Gunter
February 6th, 2008, 01:54 PM
here is some of my own ubuntu/debian knowledge
both are great--i might give the edge to debian-it has like 5 or 8 thousand software packages
and deb and ubuntu can use the same packages.

one answer i can give to your Q
when you log off you are given a box to change your session from kde to gnome and some other i cant recall the name of.
i also think under the SYSTEM tab you can change your session (kde to gnome)

linux/unix software is top notch.
i have linux software running on my son's MAC
i have unix stuff running on linux.
it is all from the root system (UNIX) that allows all that to happen and work.

i have been playing with the linux live cds a bit lately.they dont install to your HD,it all runs in the memory and from the install live cd/dvd. if you install,it can then be updated and then you can add packages as needed.
the best ever where all dvd/cd's work from the start? knoppix!
the LLGP linux gamers project has a distro with ati and nvidia drivers included(for 3 d graphic support)
slax installs easy and works good too.
another version of knoppis is gnoppix(with Gnome desktop)
gentoo looks very nice,but i cant ever get it to install and work.the linux elite will make fun of you because you dont want to get a computer science degree to install linux.
joke is on them--they need not make it so complicated.

go to micro center and browse the book section and look for any magazines that have Live cd/dvd's included with the magazine.lots to play with there.
there is a LOT of buzz about cd's and thumb drives so your linux can be portable and take it to any computer you wish.
i have a book that shows how to make your own live cd.you can make it about gaming,or a slide picture show,or your fave videos,music etc. you can use any linux you desire for that.
you can whip up a cd or dvd of you fave wheeling vids and pics and it will boot up and play,and never install on any computer,unless they want to.
i will re read your post to see if i can help with you questions....

jnschwie
February 6th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Oh good lord.
I hope I can see it when you are done. I certainly don't understand any of this. :D

Gunter
February 6th, 2008, 01:58 PM
to question 1
look in your home directory to find stuff you add.
as for by the automatix stuff....
it SHOULD be in there somewhere,just keep browsing and looking for it.
my son's MAC is really BAD about adding stuff and you cant find it to use it or drop an icon on desktop so you can use it.

Gunter
February 6th, 2008, 02:07 PM
hey one more thing:
if you download an application or pic and then try to open or use it and cant--
right click it and change your permissions to read/open/execute .you have to give yourself permission to do that!!LOL
you can also open a terminal with SU priveliges
and drag and drop an executable to the terminal and hit return and MOST of the time it will install for you.
have you had ubuntu re boot and then you lose your internet connection? i ALWAYS add the internet icon to the desktop so i can see the connection is up and connected. that weather applet is way cool too.

also find a web page that has a LOT of the common command line commands listed.bookmark it!!
easier to copy and paste than try to recall and type all that junk.my UNIX book says there are over 18,000 commands!!i feel sorry for anyone who actually KNOWS them all!!
and respect anyone who knows a lot of them :P

Gunter
February 6th, 2008, 02:16 PM
"I am not willing to post this on the Linux boards because, after reading a LOT of those boards, I've decided that Linux people can be a little snotty toward people who are trying to transition from Windows. It's like they can't fathom why someone who is transitioning from a purely visual OS might not particularly dig having to learn a bunch of Unix-like command line crap."

you can manuever thru both by using the shell.
the commands to get your internet up are similar on both
windows you open the run box
linux open any shell
windows command is ipconfig
linux i think is ifconfig
all the nice looking GUI junk is available by command line-the GUI just does all the remembering for you.

EvilDead
February 6th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Ubuntu is good, for a beginner.

http://www.distrowatch.com

Just download a live cd, and boot from it. Try the distro out first, and find compatibility.

Yota
February 6th, 2008, 05:23 PM
Wow, great stuff, Gunter. Thanks for that. EvilDead I will check that out.

So far Knoppix is by far my favorite desktop but I like the amount of software for Debian/Ubuntu I think. I wish Knoppix were designed to be installed and not just a Live CD (Live thumbdrives are pretty cool too but some BIOSes won't boot to USB - not sure about mine yet).

I definitely want to try some of the other distros out there.

Any of you guys ever dick around with Wine? It's a knock-off of the Windows API so it can mimic most of the base functionality of Windows to make a Windows program run on Linux without an emulator. Cool in theory. I don't plan on running too many Win apps on Linux but sometimes I need to.

EvilDead
February 6th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Wine can be a lot of fun, but only when ya have full grasp on it. My biggest gripe is there is zero music production software for Linux...but give it time@!

Gunter
February 6th, 2008, 06:42 PM
Wine can be a lot of fun, but only when ya have full grasp on it. My biggest gripe is there is zero music production software for Linux...but give it time@!
freshmeat and sourceforge have to have a few things that would be useful eh?

racer122
February 6th, 2008, 08:40 PM
I actually installed Ubuntu to my laptop, which had been running Vista (gag, sooo slow!) and I'm really happy with the functionality, though I haven't been able to get through some of the stuff that's pretty easy with Windows, such as installing a Flash player.

I'm really just a week into this project, so I'm not even daring to log into the linux forums. From what I hear they make Pirate4x4 look like a bunch of sissies.

If I could find some root commands, I'd probably be able to figure it all out on my own, but all I've managed to find are tutorials (that I don't really want to wade through right now).

Anyhow, I still like it a lot.

Yota
February 6th, 2008, 09:11 PM
The next version of Ubunty (8.0.4 "Hardy Heron," due in stable release ~April 2008) will have a built-in Flash player :thumbsup:

I just upgraded to the Alpha 4 of Hardy just for grins (I'm not using this PC for anything in particular) and it's still pretty buggy. There are known display bugs and CD-ROM problems in certain configurations.

I am going to see if I can boot into a USB version of PCLinuxOS, which has the most hits on DistroWatch.

Gunter
February 6th, 2008, 10:02 PM
I actually installed Ubuntu to my laptop, which had been running Vista (gag, sooo slow!) and I'm really happy with the functionality, though I haven't been able to get through some of the stuff that's pretty easy with Windows, such as installing a Flash player.

I'm really just a week into this project, so I'm not even daring to log into the linux forums. From what I hear they make Pirate4x4 look like a bunch of sissies.

If I could find some root commands, I'd probably be able to figure it all out on my own, but all I've managed to find are tutorials (that I don't really want to wade through right now).

Anyhow, I still like it a lot.
my 16 year old daughter who doesnt care for the linux vs windows battle,was on my ubuntu comp,and installed and upgraded the flash player!!:eek:

it can be done,just keep exploring and playing with it.

ishmaelcallme
February 6th, 2008, 10:54 PM
Install Kubuntu instead of Ubuntu for a lot of KDE stuff instead of Gnome.

Use Qemu if you want to try out a bunch of different distros without actually loading them on your real PC. Qemu Manager makes it really easy, and Kqemu makes it almost as fast as native.

Ubuntu Studio has a bunch of sound and video production tools. That is the one I have on dual-boot.

Yota
February 7th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Yeah I have used Knoppix, which is a KDE desktop interface and loved it. My favorite so far.

Last night I set up PCLinuxOS (also a KDE desktop) in Qemu and I am mostly digging it although I couldn't get the networking to pass through into Qemu. But I know it would work as a native OS.

I still haven't figured out how to switch to KDE under Ubuntu. I may just reinstall/reimage and choose KDE at the beginning. I mentioned that I installed the alpha version of Ubuntu 8.0.4 (Hardy Heron) but it's still buggy enough that it should be left for developers to deal with. I'll go back to Gutsy and/or PCLinuxOS or Kubuntu or something.

Yota
February 8th, 2008, 02:25 PM
I installed PCLinuxOS 2007 and ditched Ubuntu.

I love the UI with PCLOS - very efficient and clear. But I'm still having no luck with wireless. It seems that the RT61 driver is installed but I get nothing.

It's always something with Linux, isn't it? :)

Gunter
February 8th, 2008, 02:28 PM
I installed PCLinuxOS 2007 and ditched Ubuntu.

I love the UI with PCLOS - very efficient and clear. But I'm still having no luck with wireless. It seems that the RT61 driver is installed but I get nothing.

It's always something with Linux, isn't it? :)
is it installed but not turned on?
i have seen more than one linux do that.
also,if you have a network card and ethernet on the motherboard,you will have 2 to choose from. very likely one of the two will be able to be activated and used.

Yota
February 8th, 2008, 04:45 PM
my mobo has both and pclos even has a driver in the kernel that is for my pci card but it no worky. The PCI card shows up in the hardware manager in PCLOS. It even has an RT61 driver built into the kernel.

It even uses a package called NDISWRAPPER that is supposed allow you to use Windows Drivers. I can't figure out

1. Why the included RT61 driver doesn't work (this is the same/similar driver that is on my driver CD as RT61.inf)
2. How to make NDISWRAPPER find the windows inf file. I put in the path to it and it gives me an error every time. I try browsing to the CD but it won't let me browse to the CD (I find the etc3 file system nothing short of retarded!)

I'm about to throw in the towel and declare Linux "not ready for prime time" and tuck tail and run crying back to Windows. :)

I really WANT to like Linux because it looks useful but right now I hate it because I am stuck on square one: wireless access. I suspect it's going to be this difficult every time I try to do the next thing. Grrrr. The crappy part is that I had wireless working like a champ on Ubuntu.

When you read the support forums it's like reading tech posts on here. Everyone posts up his/her own experience whether it applies or not and they presume you know what they are talking about. For a Linux noob like me, the terminology alone is daunting and the instuctions often are meaningless because I am not into the command line stuff.



.

Gunter
February 8th, 2008, 04:49 PM
my mobo has both and pclos even has a driver in the kernel that is for my pci card but it no worky. The support forums confuse me to no end.
i think all you might need to do,is go to the network section,and just add your device and activate it.:thumbsup: