Local comp series

[noahfecks]

I have a Formula toyota that I am looking to compete locally (within 500mi). The WE Rock events are mostly too far for me to be able to make, is there a more regional series in CO that I should consider? Something like Cal Rocks? I know that there are several events here in CO and incredible venues (Montrose, B Vista, Cortez, Rangely and too many others in and nearby to mention), but is there a series that my rig might fit into a class? XRRA series schedule would be outstanding but my rig isnt built for speed and my wallet isnt capable of the repairs that that series dishes out. If there is not an existing series is there any intrest in getting something going for 2009? :beer: Sorry if these are stupid ?'s

[JohnToy]

I know what your saying... I'm already wrapped up in the XRRA series but I would LOVE a lower budget crawling series to comp my trail rig in and just have fun. I think thats how Cal-Rocks is/was.?.. Where the rules would allow basically a stock vehicle with a cage and a helmet. Most "average joe" rigs could compete if the entrance fees were low as well. I know alot of friends would definitly be interested. I don't know if your talking about a budget comp crawling series or a full blown local circuit? I think if a comp were to be organized it would end up being like blue-collar trail racing, which would be sweet!

[clemsonkrawler]

Before I moved out here from South Carolina, a local park had a comp series. There were four classes that competed in 5 events throughout the year. It was pretty fun and drew a pretty big crowd(~250 spectators) and quite a few competitors. I helped organize that system back east and would be happy to help with one out here. It was a lot of fun and a lot of the money raised went to the Susan G Lomen breast cancer foundation and the rest went to making the park better. I think it was a $35 entry fee for a driver/spotter and spectators were $10/ea. We had the local fire dept come out and cook food as a fundraiser for themselves. It really went smooth.
The classes were:
A- Tires 34" and smaller, no lockers
B- Tires 34" and smaller, locker(s) allowed
C- 35-37" tires, no buggies
D- 38"+ tires and all buggies(unlimited class basically)

[clemsonkrawler]

What would you guys think of a "King of the Hammers" style race in Grand Junction? Run a few miles of desert out behind the airport, with a trip up 21rd. It would be a fun mix of haulin arse, crawling and geocaching since the checkpoints would be unknown until the start of the race and the racers would just be given the coordiantes. It sounds like a great event to me.

[JohnToy]

I would for sure be in on a KOH style race! That would be so fun, even in my slow ass Chop-Top! It would be sweet for this summer.

[Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford]

I REALLY think we need a local course in which you can compete with TOTALLY stock rigs-no lockers, next class up would be up to 33s-1 locker, then up to 37s and 2 lockers.


Some other rules would apply.

I am most interested in courses that people in stock rigs could run. We could create courses that could be run in parking lots if need be with cones, blocks, ramps, etc. Stuff to just challenge driver skill. Stuff that will attract NEW wheelers to test their skill with stock rigs. Then get people to purpose build for each different class (33, 35, etc).

As it stands now the ONLY way to really compete is to build a dedicated buggy. I know there are lots of people out there that would love the spirit of competition, want to test their skills but don't want to dedicate time, money, life and limb for a full on rock racing series. People that want to be able to take their daily driver out for a weekend and have some fund competing agianst friends.

[noahfecks]

Wow after a few days of cricket sounds sombody is interested. Clemson that is pretty much the same way that cal rocks is run, by tire size and lockers. I do like coles idea of a totally stock class to improve driver skill but how do you keep it even? I mean an open/open ifs rig against a locked/locked Rubicon. A KOH style race would be kick ass, there are a million places in western CO to run it. Im in GJ and so is Clemson so if you want to get together over a beverage and cuss and discuss shoot me a PM. I have no experience organizing anything but I am interested and willing to do as much as I can.

[clemsonkrawler]

With the class designation I had above.... we had bone stockers competeing in class A. In fact the overall winner was a TJ with a Budget boost and 31's. That class ended up being mostly stock jeeps and samurais. If there were enough BONE STOCK rigs, we could do a 'AA' class just for them. But there really arent many people that would be into this type of event that have absolutely NO MODS.

heres a pics page from one of our events back east:

http://smkymtns.com/Gulches/07/Head2Head/

[Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford]

...But there really arent many people that would be into this type of event that have absolutely NO MODS.





I somewhat disagree. Here is why.

First of all there is currently no way for these people to compete now.

Secondly I would allow some mods like bumpers, rockers, "largest tire on a stock size wheel with no lift", skid plates, winch(not that they could use it in comp) etc. So there are litterally thousands of dollars of stuff they can do and still be "stock" as far as tires, lift, lockers. You can even allow selectable lockers if you can prove they are disabled for the event.


Thrid. Look at a similar event like SCCA SOLO II, (auto-x). Stock is one of the MOST popular classes. Two main reasons it is so popular. A) you can do it right off the street and limit cash outlay to compete, B) It is the ONLY true driver vs driver class.


It would be pretty easy to make a course that would challenge even the best drivers that could be laid out in a parking lot, field, etc.


I could see a stock class being fun enough to take the lift off my Jeep just to compete. (or course the gearing would probably kill my qualification. )

[clemsonkrawler]

I REALLY think we need a local course in which you can compete with TOTALLY stock rigs-no lockers, next class up would be up to 33s-1 locker, then up to 37s and 2 lockers.

The problem with those designations are that they would put a bone stock Rubi(and possibly newb driver) up against a purpose built rig with 60s, 37" stickies and a seasoned driver. There was a lot of thought put into the classes we ran back east.

Class A - Tires smaller than 34" can be put on most rigs with very little modification. AKA, simple lift kit.
Class B - Tires smaller than 34" WITH Locker(s). Locker(s) give a person with equal tire size a significant advantage. Most people dont add locker(s) until they have had some time offroad and are usually more experienced drivers. Thats why we put those people in a seperate class. Rubi owners fall into this class.
Class C - Tires in the 35-37" range can cause siginificant damage to stock drivetrain components. Most people that run tires in this range have done some drivetrain work to their rig and more than just a standard short arm kit.
Class D - Designated by 38"+ tires or buggies. Basically anything goes. This is where the guys with long arms and coilovers will be. These rigs generally arent daily drivers so the hardest lines are what they are looking for. Rollovers and carnage are common and expected. This class is fun for the drivers of full bodied rigs since they can go up against a tube buggy. Nothing beats the satisfaction of beating a UROC buggy in a full bodied rig.

As for a bone stock driver skill challenge....I dont see a point in setting up cones in a parking lot to learn about youre new 4wd. If you wanted to do it in a close environment, theres plenty of small ditches and rocks out in the ORV area in GJ. Some cones in there would be a great test for a newb. I think some trails like Bang Canyon out near Billings would be perfect as well. Theres some great scenery and some ledges and loose rock. 30-33" tires make that trail fun.

[Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford]

The problem with those designations are that they would put a bone stock Rubi(and possibly newb driver) up against a purpose built rig with 60s, 37" stickies and a seasoned driver.


Um.....no it would not. Not even close. As for Rubi's, since they are slectable lockers you simply pull the fuses or tape over the switch etc to make sure they leave them off. Rubi drivers of course could have the luxury of competing in multiple classes.






Class A - Tires smaller than 34" can be put on most rigs with very little modification. AKA, simple lift kit.


34s are HUGE for some rigs. That is simply too tall. A "stock" category is just that. STOCK! That is what makes it fun.

The goal is to ATTRACT NEW people into the sport, not just the ones already in it. Stuffing 34s on a XJ, CJ, Sami, some toys, etc is more than just a simple lift. You also want to avoid big lifts with small tires because it gives a huge clearance advantage. So the best way to do it is STOCK!


As for a bone stock driver skill challenge....I dont see a point in setting up cones in a parking lot .


How said anything about cones?

Some of the most fun I have had was trying to balance the balance been with my Jeep against friends. It would be VERY easy to come up with obsticles that can be built, transported,duplicated, set up anywhere etc.

You want a tricky ledge? Drop a stock rig off two cinderblocks and 3 feet later make then climb back up 3 high at an angle.....(just a random example). The best part of that is you can duplicate it in other states etc. Design the obsicles and use them multiple times in various venues.

The BEST thing about it is you can DESIGN them. For example. You can FORCE a CJ/YJ/TJ to HAVE to climb 2 ledges wtih both axles at an angle. Then when a stock toyota truck rolls up you can MOVE the second ledge to FORCE it to have to do the same. You don't have that kind of control over obsticles on the trails.

The point is really to make it DIFFERENT from the trail experience, not the same.

[clemsonkrawler]

We are talking about differnet things at this point. I want to see an OFFROAD competition like UROC, WEROCK, CalROCKs, KOH... and the likes for the blue collar crowd. Cinderblocks in a parking lot is completely different.... no matter how you stack it.(pun intended) While I do think its important to attract new people to the sport, I dont think this kind of comp is the way to do it.

I think youre venue has a lot of merit and will do what its intended to, but to mix these two types of event will result in too many compromises on both ends. Just my $0.02.

[Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford]

I have seen several attempts at rockcrawling comps here and they have mostly all failed. Either they are TOO limited on who can compete(equipment wise)or offer a HIGH change of damage to a rig.


I think it is completely viable to set up something that can cater to EVERY level of rig in a safe(r) environment.

This is the big problem. We all seem to think that if its not the hard core its not worth the time and we completely ignore the stockers, mild bilt rigs, semi-hardcore rigs etc. (or we expect them to tear up their rigs trying to compete).

The truth is that the LARGEST percentage of wheeler are in all the classes we are ignoring.

[clemsonkrawler]

Youre absolutely right that an event set up to cater to all vehicles in a safe environment would work..... Camp Jeep and Jeep Jamboree USA have been making serious cash of that premise for years. So that group is by no means ignored.

What we are proposing IS geared more towards the offroad only crowd that would like to compete... but dont have the time, money or corperate backing to run in the pro series. I mean c'mon... who wouldnt wanna be crowned "King Of Colorado"!!:beer:

[Clint]

What would you guys think of a "King of the Hammers" style race in Grand Junction? Run a few miles of desert out behind the airport, with a trip up 21rd. It would be a fun mix of haulin arse, crawling and geocaching since the checkpoints would be unknown until the start of the race and the racers would just be given the coordiantes. It sounds like a great event to me.

Wow, just read the whole thread. I like the idea. Bottom line to the rest of the thread, if there was enough interest in setting up a competition for stock rigs, then it would be in place already. Nobody wants to go *watch* stock or mildly built rigs wheel, cept for us, and I always wanna see any rig do the sickest thing it can.

I would love to have a class based "event" that would set 4-6 classes to run a course like you described. I think it would be alot of fun. I gotta get my air bumps!

[TJRecreation]

I like the idea Justin, those classes make sense to me. I think in the Junction area you would get a lot of participants. With the exposure from this website you could have quite a turnout.

Do you think Carrie will let Wally drive her rig in the comp? :evil:

or maybe Carrie drive and Wally spot?

[clemsonkrawler]

I would bet that Wally will be hitching a ride with someone. She wont let him take her rig up Billings.... do you REALLY think she will let him take it in a comp??

[JohnToy]

I would for sure haul my Trailer Trash to make a KOH type race in GJ!

As far as stock rigs go; why couldn't a guy take any 4x4, weld the diffs and maybe some sliders and run it, oh and a cage. Shoot, it would be faster than alot of crawlers in a desert enviroment... and it would wheel sweet, just hammer down... I guess not too many people like straight up abusing their rig?

If you guys wanted to get serious about a 21rd race, post up here and on pirate, and other forums, it would end up being a huge event! Lots of fun!


I would just paint a start line by the airport and have a check point at the top of 21, then come down and the first one wins, so everyone would start at the same time. Maybe have heats and a main event. But only charge like $40 a rig and the top 5 or so split the pot up........

[Steve]

or maybe Carrie drive and Wally spot?

I don't think there's anybody left on this side of the mountains that will let Wally spot. ;)

I like your ideas Justin, count me in. :thumbsup:

[clemsonkrawler]

I think the KOH style event would be a great once a year deal. Make a big deal of it one weekend in May or something.

Since Im new to the state and the trails/areas. I dont know what places would be good for a standard WeROCK event format. You need someplace thats spectator friendly and has either;
1. a few trails really close to each other
2. a trail that can be made to accomodate all classes of vehicles with just cone manipulation.

I can think of Rangely ORV area since its a large space and fairly open and 21rd since that has a lot of options for lines(but not very spectator friendly). Can anyone else think of any other places?? Ideally I would like to see 4-5 events through out the wheeling season... each at a different venue somewhere in the state to make it fair to everyone.... although all 4-5 events at one place(ie: rangely) make it much less of a logistics headache.

[clemsonkrawler]

I would just paint a start line by the airport and have a check point at the top of 21, then come down and the first one wins, so everyone would start at the same time. Maybe have heats and a main event. But only charge like $40 a rig and the top 5 or so split the pot up........


I want 1 checkpoint in the desert just to keep jack-holes from hitting the highway to get from the airport to 21rd.:eek:

[Clint]

I think the KOH style event would be a great once a year deal. Make a big deal of it one weekend in May or something.

Since Im new to the state and the trails/areas. I dont know what places would be good for a standard WeROCK event format. You need someplace thats spectator friendly and has either;
1. a few trails really close to each other
2. a trail that can be made to accomodate all classes of vehicles with just cone manipulation.

I can think of Rangely ORV area since its a large space and fairly open and 21rd since that has a lot of options for lines(but not very spectator friendly). Can anyone else think of any other places?? Ideally I would like to see 4-5 events through out the wheeling season... each at a different venue somewhere in the state to make it fair to everyone.... although all 4-5 events at one place(ie: rangely) make it much less of a logistics headache.

Rangely would be AWESOME for something like this. There are 4-5 trails within a small distance and some big open areas that you could use. I like the ideas of checkpoints to pass. Make it a class event, maybe a couple days long. I dont want it to be huge, I would want it for the colorado boys/girls to play on :) It will still be huge, but nationwide? UGH :) If it were opened up that big, how would you determine who gets to run? It would have to be a week long!

[clemsonkrawler]

Make entrance fees like college tuition..... $25 in state, $250 out of state.:evil:

[MonsterZ]

This is a really great idea. Ever since the demise of the Kremmling Crawl, this state has had a real void in amateur type events like this. Count me in to help.

So what do we call it? King Of the Canyon? I suppose KOC is not the best thing to advertise...

[Clint]

Justin, you are now in charge. Coming from someone who plans an event yearly, plan on giving up all your free time from here on out until it kicks off :) Oh wait, you have lots of time at work to plan the event :)

Hollar if you need help :thumbsup:

[noahfecks]

I agree that a class to help grow the sport and include joe weekend in a "stock" rig is important. If our goal would be to grow a sagebrush roots event series getting people involved and interested in building more competent rigs is how to start. I am of the opinion that the 4 or 5 classes based on tire size and lockers would be a better fit. Anyone running less than say a 33" tire and less than 4" of lift in the factory configuration and one non selectable locker would allow for almost anyone to be competetive in an entery class. The parking lot crawl for stockers has its place but isnt really what i am interested in, mabey a sponsor like 4 wheel parts could set something like that up. I have been talking to some of the guys I trade parts with here in GJ and everyone has said that a calrocks style series is something that they would like to participate in. Would love to meet some of the guys on here from the GJ area and talk about getting something together. :shrug:

[noahfecks]

So what do we call it? King Of the Canyon? I suppose KOC is not the best thing to advertise...[/QUOTE]

"Rage in the sage":flipoff2:

[clemsonkrawler]

For a once a year, KOH style event..... The Colorado Classic.

I would really like to get a rough idea of how many people would be interested... right now, I see about 6. I dont think that qualifies 4 classes. Ill take the drivers seat in planning this. Let get it on!!

[Clint]

For a once a year, KOH style event..... The Colorado Classic.

I would really like to get a rough idea of how many people would be interested... right now, I see about 6. I dont think that qualifies 4 classes. Ill take the drivers seat in planning this. Let get it on!!

Start a new Thread with a name for the event, I imagine you will have plenty of interest, especially if there are good classes for the mildly built up to the big boys.

[clemsonkrawler]

Well.... Anyone got a good name to get this ball rolling? I like the "Rage in the Sage"... but do we want a once a year, KOH event, or a multi-part WeRock event??

[noahfecks]

Once a year rage in the sage, 4-5 events colorado crawl (cone kill). I would be confident that at least 5 of the 15 or so guys I know would show for each event. What about event venues? Rangely for a crawl and RITS, Montrose, Kremmling, Cortez, Buena Vista, Hartman rocks (Gunnison). We would need a few good locations on the front range but I really dont know whats over that way.

[noahfecks]

We should get a list of 4 wheeel clubs in colorado. If we pulled just one or two rigs from each club I bet we would end up with 40 or more rigs at an event. Any idea about event sponsors? There a a few 4 wheel shops in CO: Front range/diamond axle, Poison spider, Portal axle, Alcan spring and im sure there are a bunch I left off. More hot o2

[clemsonkrawler]

For sponsors we can start with the supporting vendors of this site. There are a lot of companies in this region and I would like to invite them to set-up a booth at any event that they choose. I havent been to rangely yet.... but I dont know if it will offer enough "open desert" to support the go-fast section of the Rage in the Sage race.

I still think 21rd would be best. Is there a way to come out the top of 21rd and get back to the airport without hitting pavement and withtout coming back down the trail??

What do you guys think of a stricktly geo-caching event for the "stockers". Its somehting that people could get involved in during the other events if they didnt wanna sit around and watch. The first person to find all the checkpoints wins some sort of prize/money. Heck you could slap 'markers' all over a place like rangely... that would be fun way to involve everyone wihtout making spectators watch a bone stock rig trying to "comp".


Wow.... I really do have too much free time at work. What do you guys think about making these events some sort of fundraiser... say for the "Make a Wish Foundation" or something? I dont see a problem opening this event to anyone willing to drive to it.... there wont be enough "winnings" to make it worth while for a lot of people.

[Steve]

Is there a way to come out the top of 21rd and get back to the airport without hitting pavement and withtout coming back down the trail??

Don't believe so. You can go out the top and come out in Fruita, but there's pavement.

[Hippie]

Rangely would be AWESOME for something like this. There are 4-5 trails within a small distance and some big open areas that you could use. I like the ideas of checkpoints to pass. Make it a class event, maybe a couple days long. I dont want it to be huge, I would want it for the colorado boys/girls to play on :) It will still be huge, but nationwide? UGH :) If it were opened up that big, how would you determine who gets to run? It would have to be a week long!


X2 and a great way to help Rangely get out there as a wheeling destination :thumbsup:

[clemsonkrawler]

I was comparing the WEROCK west and XRRA west schedules, and this is what I have come up with so anyone involved with those events can still attend the CC/RITS series:

WEROCKw:
Apr 18-20
May 16-18
June 20-22
July 18-20
Sept 5-7

XRRAw:
March 22
May 3
June 14
Aug 2
Sept 20

Colorado Crawlin(WeROCK style events):
June 7-8
July 5-6(or 12-13)Not sure if people would rather attend on a holiday weekend or not)
Aug 9-10
Sept 13-14

Finals.... Oct 3,4,5th..... this would be the main "Rage in the Sage" desert race/rock crawl(KOH style) for the title. This series final is purposely AFTER the other event finals just so everyone can go all out if they so desire.:smokin:


Everyone On board??

[88chevota]

this sounds really cool. I would do it for sure. It think a lot of guys from a local landcruiser club I know of would dig this too.

[noahfecks]

The dates look good! As far a fundraiser I like the blue ribbon coalition or annother land use issues group to give the $ to, not that I dont have a heart I just think its a better fit for this kind of event. I also really like your ideas to include the stockers. I am pretty sure that KOH is just for bragging rights, there didnt used to be any prize, and the $ went to johnson valley offroaders and blue ribbon. We should include a cleanup day on a few of the local trails, whatever needs the most work, it would keep the tree huggers off our backs. I think we should lock down the rules for classes to give people a better idea of what it will be all about before we ask for about intrest.
Just an idea but:

Class A- <35" tires, full body

Class B- 35-40" tires, full body

Class C- 35-40" tires, buggy or tube chassis

Unlimited- Any size tire, any body

Calroc's runs classes: <35" tires novice only, 35-40" tires novice(bodied), 35-40" tires pro(buggy), >40" tires pro
they limit enteries to 60 per class (thats alot), and have basic safety requirments for each class (safety belts, helmets, kill switch, fire extinguisher, etc.). 75% payout for pro, 50% payout for novice. $150 pro, $100 novice entry fee.

Things we arent thinking about: insurance for the event, land use fees, registration

I know you said that you had some experience with this but we might try to contact Glenn Bonner from CalRocs about what it takes to put on an event.

[Clint]

The dates look good! As far a fundraiser I like the blue ribbon coalition or annother land use issues group to give the $ to, not that I dont have a heart I just think its a better fit for this kind of event. I also really like your ideas to include the stockers. I am pretty sure that KOH is just for bragging rights, there didnt used to be any prize, and the $ went to johnson valley offroaders and blue ribbon. We should include a cleanup day on a few of the local trails, whatever needs the most work, it would keep the tree huggers off our backs. I think we should lock down the rules for classes to give people a better idea of what it will be all about before we ask for about intrest.
Just an idea but:

Class A- <35" tires, full body

Class B- 35-38" tires, full body

Class C- 35-38" tires, buggy or tube chassis


Come on, tires have gotten way bigger these days. Im running 39.5s and a full body on my bronco, I aint no buggy....Ill drop to 38s then and get er done if I have to ;)

[noahfecks]

Edit for you Clint. I meant 40" tires for your interco 39.5's but your avitar gives me siesures:D

[Clint]

Edit for you Clint. I meant 40" tires for your interco 39.5's but your avitar gives me siesures:D

Thats the point. As soon as 100% of active members have a seizure Ill change it :flipoff2:

Im really digging this event, and all the time you and Justin (clemsonkrawler) will be putting in while we are out wheelin and goin fast! :D sombody has to do it, and Im sure Ill end up helping, as long as it doesnt interfere with my chase rig plans for Baja :)

[MountainJeep]

insurance?

[Clint]

insurance?

Oh yeah, the insurance is gonna be kinda pricey :)

[clemsonkrawler]

Oh yeah, the insurance is gonna be kinda pricey :)

Yeah it is. Thats one reason I was thinking about keeping all the events at one place(ie: Rangely). Multiple venues will mean a lot of issues.

Noahfecks... if you can get ahold of Bonner... please do it. I have thought about insurance, etc... but I wanted to see if there was enough interest in this for me to spend real time doing research for it.

[MountainJeep]

I would definitely do it......always a crowd pleaser....

[MountainJeep]

http://www.rangely.com/RockCrawling.htm

I recognize a few of those ugly rigs and uglier drivers

[CJesse7]

Im in. WOuld be a great time!

Jess

[Scott@Rockstomper]

Just be sure to get your ducks in a row (insurance, permit, etc.) before rolling too far with this. Any event on public lands will require a permit, and one of the conditions of the permit will be insurance. Contact the authority in the area(s) you're thinking of using for more info. Probably either FS or BLM, or find private property appropriate and get hashed-out with the landowner as to what they want out of the deal.

An event like what's being described, held without a permit, could land everybody involved in a whole lot of (very expensive) hot water.

[YJgirl]

Just be sure to get your ducks in a row (insurance, permit, etc.) before rolling too far with this. Any event on public lands will require a permit, and one of the conditions of the permit will be insurance. Contact the authority in the area(s) you're thinking of using for more info. Probably either FS or BLM, or find private property appropriate and get hashed-out with the landowner as to what they want out of the deal.

An event like what's being described, held without a permit, could land everybody involved in a whole lot of (very expensive) hot water.
Yes guys, you need a permit, you need insurance, you need rules, regulations, saftey equipment specs, EMS on standby, etc. BUT that's not to say it can't happen, although don't think its going to happen overnight. It takes about 4 months, if not longer, to get a permit. I know the BLM over there will work with you to mark out the area, etc. (cuz they've probably already read this post before I did since they lurk)

I suggest talking with the Colorado Association of 4Wheel Drive Clubs Inc about it. They have wanted to do one for years, but haven't had the volunteers to set it up.

And PLEASE stay away from "rage the sage". ugh, that's the last thing we need is the general public thinking that we are killing sage brush with our big tires and our polluting vehicles across the desert. Can ya go with something with a less enviro destructive name???

[Clint]

And PLEASE stay away from "rage the sage". ugh, that's the last thing we need is the general public thinking that we are killing sage brush with our big tires and our polluting vehicles across the desert. Can ya go with something with a less enviro destructive name???


I dont like the rage name either.
Time for a name the comp thread :)

[YJgirl]

I dont like the rage name either.
Time for a name the comp thread :)
You guys might want to look into the actual feasablity of doing a comp on public lands before you get carried away with a name. ;)
Look to private property, much easier. You still need insurance for participants and spectators.

[Clint]

You guys might want to look into the actual feasablity of doing a comp on public lands before you get carried away with a name. ;)
Look to private property, much easier. You still need insurance for participants and spectators.

Theres no you guys here, this is all Justin. I have my own deal to plan :D

[Steve]

Geez Val, did you train with an NFL team on how to throw cold water on people? You're very good at it. :flipoff2:

[Bigrockbronc]

I'm running XRRA this year, but i'd definately be interested in a lower profile(and cheaper) series of events to run in. Me and several buddies have been discussing this exact thing. I hear rumor that RAM Offroad Park might have some small events. If anybody didn't know, that is where XRRA events are held in Colorado Springs. We are also working on some very sick private property wheeling, that if goes smooth, might end up in some kind of yearly event. I know people in all classes that would be very interested, so keep the ideas rolling and hopefully something will come of it. I am in Canon City(near Independence Trail System), so i'm far form GJ, but would help if i could. Whats to keep from running "events" in an semi informal way at local trails, like Buena Vista Carnage and Indy? Just organize through the board, have minimal entrance fees that all goes to charity of some sort, just for fun and bragging rights. Seems the simpler the easier it would be for something to actually happen.

[ThePagan]

Whats to keep from running "events" in an semi informal way at local trails, like Buena Vista Carnage and Indy? Just organize through the board, have minimal entrance fees that all goes to charity of some sort, just for fun and bragging rights. Seems the simpler the easier it would be for something to actually happen.

A lot of things.. the opportunity to have the whole place closed would be one of the first thoughts to come to mind. You hold an event on public land and charge money (regardless of where the funds go) and it is against the use policies for the land - organized events have to go thru the proper channels.

It might sound fun to have an informal event but those type of events are used to show what happens when wheelers run amok. Talk to the BLM, position it for charity and see what they have to say. Doing it informally will just end up hurting everyone.

Now then grabbing a few of you buds and going to play is different.. but planning something, charging entry fees, having officials, giving prizes etc - well now no matter how informal you want it to be its now an event and it has to go thru the proper channels.

- Shawn

[Elk]

Make it 35 or less on the tires and I'm in. I want to be in class A :D

Seriously interested in this. Let me know if I can help.

[just G]

I like the idea and I think you would get a lot of rigs and a lot of spectators out of this as well....providing you advertised it where the comp is being held and such.
Let me know if I can help in any way... would like to see something like this in CO.

Mike

[Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford]

I like the idea and I think you would get a lot of rigs and a lot of spectators
Mike


There are LOTS of grassroots motorsports that have almost ZERO spectators. I think we need to get that out of our heads and and just set it up as a way for people that want to compete to have fun. :shrug:

[vb]

how long would a course need to be?

parking is always the largest problem

how often do you think the area could stand to have one of these types of gigs?

once a month jackpot type thing with practice days open a few times a month? grudge matches? any side by side action?

[MountainJeep]

Rangely looks to be an optimal spot.

The town would love to host it, based on their advertsing of rock crawling on their chamber of commerce site.

There are wild to mild trails

lots of parking

plenty of areas to camp

looks like really good for spectators...

Ya'll just need to get in touch with BLM and the town council (or whomever is the appropriate person(s).

again...its a planning project and big logistics and execution "nightmare". Without hiring out the work, you are going to need a long list of trustworthy and dependable volunteers as well as sponsors, and partnering with local businesses, EMS, and any number of other things I cannot think of.

Step one is permit through BLM.

[guapotaco]

quote "Things we arent thinking about: insurance for the event, land use fees, registration"

you'll need a permit for sure in addition to the above, don't know what the laws in western colorado are on that now , i know in moab they have tried to reduce the max numbers on event permits etc...

this is a great idea, it will take some effort and planning to pull it off, but it can be done, the KOH was an informal event til this year i believe?, now its getting alot of press from what i've been seeing in the mags/websites etc...not sure what direction thats going in, but a damn cool event for sure, i'll help out if i can

[noahfecks]

After discussions with the BLM and Bonner (Cal ROCS) I am encouraged. The BLM at least here in GJ is very open to the idea of competetive rock series on public lands. Bonner was very helpful and had alot of good suggestions to help get started. I would still like to speak with the Rich's and with Dave Cole who is an organizer of the KOH race. I think that the best venue for an event in our area is going to be 21 Rd. The main factors when choosing a site/location are:
Rock for 10-12 courses
Parking/Camping areas
Access for spectators
Staging area for rigs/pits

We will also need alot of support help:
Judges
Medical staff
Recovery crew
Parking crew
Security

Other considerations:
Restroom facilities
Cones/Markers for course
Fire extinguishers
Vendors for food/drinks
PA system
INSURANCE!!!
Event/Series sponsors
Trash and trash removal

Anyone who thinks they can help with venues or other logistics please chime in. I think four or five events spread arround the state would be great. The two that jump out in my mind would be 21 RD in Grand Jct., and Rangely OHV park. These were both also suggested by the BLM as well as an area in Montrose. Anyone know much about the area where Kremmling crawl used to be? I know there are a few parks on the front range. Does anyone have info about contacting them? Hope people are still interested in this, this is going to take alot more than one guy to get done so anyone that has suggestions or wants to help please come forward!:beer:

[noahfecks]

What ever happened to Kremmeling crawl? Is there anyone on here who was involved with it? It seems like a good area for an event. I looked at the websites for CORE and RAM offroad parks. CORE looks to have a good start but I dont know if there is enough there to have an event yet. RAM looks killer but seems like its set up for XRRA not so much slower technical stuff. Anyone know of a location or two on the front range? I am not very familiar with Farmington but it might be one to consider.

[JeepDiva]

The Kremmling Crawl was on private property. One of the guys instrumental in putting it on was Len Marks. IIRC, he was a member of the Bronco Registry of N. Colo. If you can track him down, I'm sure he'd be a good source of info. Gene King (contact him through FEAT) might also have some info.

[Steve]

Len Marks might be willing to talk, but that's all you might get from him. He got disgusted with land use issues 2 or 3 years ago and completely stopped wheeling altogether. He will have nothing to do with wheeling now. :shrug:

[JeepDiva]

Len Marks might be willing to talk, but that's all you might get from him. He got disgusted with land use issues 2 or 3 years ago and completely stopped wheeling altogether. He will have nothing to do with wheeling now. :shrug:

That explains why I hadn't heard his name in a long time. That's unfortunate.

[just G]

I'd be more than willing to volunteer and help out where I can. As long as I know where and where ahead of time, I could easily make it to events.
see below for other ideas.....


We will also need alot of support help:
Judges - volunteer
Medical staff - check with volunteer fire departments
Recovery crew - what is needed for recovery? back hoe?
Parking crew - volunteer
Security - volunteer

Other considerations:
Restroom facilities
Cones/Markers for course - willing to pitch in to buy these outright
Fire extinguishers - willing to pitch in to buy these outright, I can also check with fire departments on these.
Vendors for food/drinks - local businesses, scout troops, 4H groups - it would be a fundraiser for them
PA system - I'm sure someone has one on this board, if not... I think I might know of one... How big?
INSURANCE!!!
Event/Series sponsors - spread the word and you might get them easily enough
Trash and trash removal - volunteer - can bring a small pickup bed trailer to haul away as well if needed

Mike

[MountainJeep]

Trash and trash removal should be done through a WM company to keep the trash from getting away from the event organizers. trust me, you do not want to have to deal with it if you don't have to.

[Ink man]

I am in for sure. 4 seater buggy on 42's

[automotion]

Like I said in the Rampart thread. I can assist in copy related material. (brochures, fliers)

A good friend and her boyfriend are both EMT's and I'll check that out too.

Jason

[yota79crawler]

so whats the news on the events? any progress?

[JPGUY]

CORE would be the place to do this.

There is more stuff oput there than people think. Yea it sucks to drive east to wheel but where else can you just plain "get it"?

We had a rock race out there 2 years ago and the courses we built were pretty good. We even had prizes for 1st through 3rd in each class. The big issue with these types of events is getting competitors out there. What people say they will do and actually do are two different things. Out of the 40 or so people who said they would be there to race we got about 12 total!!

If anyone is serious about this (not sure anyone is due to thread not being updated since Feb) we can make it happen. It really is not as hard as some people think. If we had 40 or so competitors locked in to run then it would be worth it, otherwise just a waste of time.

As far as "rock crawling" type of comp making it a "race" is much easier. I know when people see "race" they think breakage but IMHO a crawl just becomes a cluster!! In a amatuer crawl type deal judging and such is too complicated and people want to argue. In a race it is very hard to dis-agree with a stopwatch although you would be suprised.

Another option is a speed crawl. Each obstacle is worth x points. You have 10 minutes to rack up points by completitng the obstacles you choose. The person with the most points wins.

If anyone is serious about this post up. I would be willing to help but not if people are going to flake!!! Also if we move this out of the pro-shop people will see it...since it's more of a rec thing not pro.

[JPGUY]

Anyone?

[CLYDE]

CORE would be the place to do this.

There is more stuff oput there than people think. Yea it sucks to drive east to wheel but where else can you just plain "get it"?

We had a rock race out there 2 years ago and the courses we built were pretty good. We even had prizes for 1st through 3rd in each class. The big issue with these types of events is getting competitors out there. What people say they will do and actually do are two different things. Out of the 40 or so people who said they would be there to race we got about 12 total!!

If anyone is serious about this (not sure anyone is due to thread not being updated since Feb) we can make it happen. It really is not as hard as some people think. If we had 40 or so competitors locked in to run then it would be worth it, otherwise just a waste of time.

As far as "rock crawling" type of comp making it a "race" is much easier. I know when people see "race" they think breakage but IMHO a crawl just becomes a cluster!! In a amatuer crawl type deal judging and such is too complicated and people want to argue. In a race it is very hard to dis-agree with a stopwatch although you would be suprised.

Another option is a speed crawl. Each obstacle is worth x points. You have 10 minutes to rack up points by completitng the obstacles you choose. The person with the most points wins.

If anyone is serious about this post up. I would be willing to help but not if people are going to flake!!! Also if we move this out of the pro-shop people will see it...since it's more of a rec thing not pro.


Some of the issues that were brought up, about restrooms, waste managment, parking, insurance etc are all already covered to a large extent, by having it at a private place such as core, Im sure there would need to be additional things done, such as the ems standby, maybe extra portapots. For me it worked out great last year with the rally, everything we needed was already in place, and I didnt have to deal with a lot of ins hassles etc, and I dont know of one person that didnt have a great time out there.. Get something together for the last weekend of july, thats when the rally is this year, and it would be great to have even more people.
I just lined up one band yesterday, and working on another. Gonna try and get vendors out etc etc. I dunno, but the more the merrier I think..

[pdrhound]

i don't think they had medical staff two years ago at core (i don't know about this year) let me know i'll get some medics.

Core also has the tough truck track, and the open road course, and the autocross track. and a little mud. and some rock.

[RoadDog]

Anyone?

I would be up for a Speed Crawl type of event. My buggy is not set up for jumps. CORE would be fine by me.

[CLYDE]

i don't think they had medical staff two years ago at core (i don't know about this year) let me know i'll get some medics.

Core also has the tough truck track, and the open road course, and the autocross track. and a little mud. and some rock.
Nope, but he has had them out for special events,, but it does cost money, they do not sit there all day for free with an ambulance unfortunately.

[CLYDE]

Could always do something like that king of the hammers trailer:D Desert course followed by the rocks, then back thru the desert course... Hey just a thought??

[pdrhound]

Nope, but he has had them out for special events,, but it does cost money, they do not sit there all day for free with an ambulance unfortunately.

I meant XRRA. i don't believe when that first buggy hit the wall on the gap jump that they had any medics. I was right there and did not seem to see anyone with medical training helping until the ambo showed up from town. I was also surprised to see no fire dept, or fire spression equipment at the obvious bad spots.

If you want someone to plan your safety, let me know. I have not seen it done well yet. Small towns are usually much easier to find cheap help.

[JohnToy]

I meant XRRA. i don't believe when that first buggy hit the wall on the gap jump that they had any medics. I was right there and did not seem to see anyone with medical training helping until the ambo showed up from town. I was also surprised to see no fire dept, or fire spression equipment at the obvious bad spots.

If you want someone to plan your safety, let me know. I have not seen it done well yet. Small towns are usually much easier to find cheap help.

You couldn't be more WRONG about the XRRA! They have the BEST medical staff, that follows the whole series. They are the best folks you will ever meet! They might be hard to spot because they usually wear what the event staff wears.
As a spotter, whenever we have rolled our rig they are right there in our faces checking if we are ok, making sure we have water, etc, taking care of us.

As for this thread; I am willing to come out in my TRAIL RIG and give it 100% to the destroying point. So for the planners, count me IN as a competitor!

[MountainJeep]

Granted I have never been to CORE, but the whole premise of wheeling on the high plains does not appeal to me at all.

I have driven by the place, and seen many pics and even some video, and it is not an attractive draw for me.

I have done some urban wheeling comps, and really thought that they were contrived and boring.

Several years ago Camp and I got into a spirited discussion on these very boards regarding comps using shotcrete obsitcles. he argued in favor, I against. While many comp events have gone that way, i would likely never attend as a spectator, and definately wouldn't waste my time as a driver.

I guess i still hold on to the ideal of wheeling where nature is the main attraction.

Rangely or another place like that would be very attractive to me, as a spectator, or driver.

[vb]

on the somject of shotcrete: would you consider driving on the stuff if it were to be used in an area like the lefthand ohv area?

[CLYDE]

hehehe:evil:

[Mark]

on the somject of shotcrete: would you consider driving on the stuff if it were to be used in an area like the lefthand ohv area?

What do you mean IF ?

[JohnToy]

Those of you looking to compete: go on Pirate, look in Comp section; posted this morning!

[vb]

What do you mean IF ?


im askin:shrug:

olblue? where do you think it will be used? how will it get there?

im looking to find out what folks think of the idea.

[JPGUY]

[quote=pdrhound;1058926]i don't think they had medical staff two years ago at core (i don't know about this year) let me know i'll get some medics.



YES WE DID!!! Rember the guy who broke his back in the dune buggy? Thanks to the Limon EMS that we had there for the whole event he was able to get aid quickly

[JPGUY]

Those of you looking to compete: go on Pirate, look in Comp section; posted this morning!


Not really a comp for Rec wheelers.

And what's with all this shotcrete talk? "I won't wheel on man made"..."I just don't think it's right" WTF Jesus people !!

[vb]

shotcrete is on the drawing board as part of the "new" challenge route that is to "replace" carnage. its also on the board for discussion for some other areas and a possible local private area. seems to be a coming thing.

im throwing out a serious question though.


would folks come and enjoy themselves if obsticles were man made in a better creative way that included shotcrete?

[CLYDE]

It is what it is, I will wheel whatevers there. Trails, artificial trails, parks.
I love scenery, but the feds, and the greenies wont rest until they take it away from everyone.









Im thinking people need to get used to the idea of losing everything. The forces against us are organized, and we arent, and never will be, as far as i can see.

[vb]

It is what it is, I will wheel whatevers there. Trails, artificial trails, parks.
I love scenery, but the feds, and the greenies wont rest until they take it away from everyone.









Im thinking people need to get used to the idea of losing everything. The forces against us are organized, and we arent, and never will be, as far as i can see.


here here:beer:

[Steve]

I love scenery, but the feds, and the greenies wont rest until they take it away from everyone.

Im thinking people need to get used to the idea of losing everything. The forces against us are organized, and we arent, and never will be, as far as i can see.


Not true over here Clyde, as the process used to open Billings Canyon will attest.

[noahfecks]

Glad there has been some more intrest, I havent given up just been planning behind the scenes. I personnaly am interested in rock crawling, if the folks who own core were to present a course that was crawling I would be all for it. Some have stated that the judging can be messy, I really dont see how? You clear the cones or you don't, you back up or you dont, you make it in the alloted time or you dont, in my mind its just as simple as looking at a stopwatch. The bounderies and rules are clearly defined. I dont want to bash anyones idea of how to have a good time just not what I had in mind when I started this thread. I might even come to an event like the one suggested at CORE:flipoff2: My goal is to prove to the WEROCK people that if they were to hold a sanctioned series in our area there would be no shortage of competitors. I still only have two areas that I am working on permits for; 21 Rd and Rangely. Also looking at Montrose. Not opposed to other locations just have limited recources so I am focussing my attention locally. If anyone really wants to commit to helping out any help would be apreciated and I am always listening to your ideas.

[CLYDE]

Not true over here Clyde, as the process used to open Billings Canyon will attest.
So far. The situations a bit different there tho, you dont have the massive overuse of the areas that are near you, like we have here. Unfortunately, thats going to reflect on everyone in equally bad terms, when they finally deal with it..

[CLYDE]

Glad there has been some more intrest, I havent given up just been planning behind the scenes. I personnaly am interested in rock crawling, if the folks who own core were to present a course that was crawling I would be all for it. Some have stated that the judging can be messy, I really dont see how? You clear the cones or you don't, you back up or you dont, you make it in the alloted time or you dont, in my mind its just as simple as looking at a stopwatch. The bounderies and rules are clearly defined. I dont want to bash anyones idea of how to have a good time just not what I had in mind when I started this thread. I might even come to an event like the one suggested at CORE:flipoff2: My goal is to prove to the WEROCK people that if they were to hold a sanctioned series in our area there would be no shortage of competitors. I still only have two areas that I am working on permits for; 21 Rd and Rangely. Also looking at Montrose. Not opposed to other locations just have limited recources so I am focussing my attention locally. If anyone really wants to commit to helping out any help would be apreciated and I am always listening to your ideas.
PM sent

[Steve]

So far. The situations a bit different there tho, you dont have the massive overuse of the areas that are near you, like we have here.

Very true.

[JPGUY]

Those of you looking to compete: go on Pirate, look in Comp section; posted this morning!


My goal is to prove to the WEROCK people that if they were to hold a sanctioned series in our area there would be no shortage of competitors. I still only have two areas that I am working on permits for; 21 Rd and Rangely. Also looking at Montrose.

We-rock knows that there is no shortage of competitors out here already so you really don't have to prove anything there. There are reasons that they don't come to Colorado. A more rec local series is the way to go IMHO.

As far as crawling vs racing. Just one of the hassles is you have to have at least one judge at every course all the time. That's say 8 people (UNPAID MIND YOU) standing in the same spot for over 8 hrs in the sun.....just easier to do a race.

I thought Montrose was out after the Warn comp in 1999

[Steve]

We-rock knows that there is no shortage of competitors out here already so you really don't have to prove anything there. There are reasons that they don't come to Colorado.

What reasons would those be? :confused:


Rangely is perfect for a comp, except for the lack of local amenities.

[JPGUY]

What reasons would those be? :confused:


Rangely is perfect for a comp, except for the lack of local amenities.

Steve a "perfect" comp site has local ammenities. We are having a hard time getting spectators in locations such as Houston, Texas much less Rangely. You need a comp site that has spectator potential. Rangely is not a perfect comp site. We still only have 6,000 spectators at our races in the Springs and that is within 1 hour of over 4 million people.

Also Rangely is BLM land right? Besides King of Hammers what comps have been on BLM land lately?

Rangely is perfect for a rec type comp not WE-ROCK. RAM and CORE (with some work) are perfect for WE-ROCK or Monty's land in the Springs.

[Steve]

Rangely is BLM land. For comp courses it's great. For local amenities, not so much. I don't understand the lack of volunteers for judging; I'd think that would be easy. :shrug: I do understand that if you can't get spectators you can't make $$$. I haven't been to the COS race so can't comment on that. I've been to several comps, including St. George and Donner last year, and I can say that I'll travel to watch a comp in a natural setting, but I have little interest in one in a stadium on a man-made course, but maybe that's just me. :shrug:

[Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford]

Why can't we do a comp series just for the fun of comp. Who cares if anyone watches?


This is the way most of motorsports really works. Only a small segment of the pros gets the spectators.

[Steve]

Cole, I think that was the original thought behind this thread. :thumbsup:

[MountainJeep]

I wouldf do any comp thats at Rangely just for the sake of it being rangely

[JPGUY]

Cole, I think that was the original thought behind this thread. :thumbsup:

That's what I thought but the thread starter is aparently thinking WE-ROCK. If you do a search you will find my thread from 2 years ago about getting WE_ROCK here. Been there done that not happening.

[Xtremjeepn-Cole Ford]

Cole, I think that was the original thought behind this thread. :thumbsup:



That is why I brought it back up. :D