Dilema: 16yo model and poses

[Tiffany]

Somedays I love it, others, not so much...

So have a very pretty 16yo who is entering the modeling world. Wants to show her "versatility" in her portfolio. Asked me to help her cause she liked some of the work I did for another model...well without saying it, I damn sure don't want to be shooting pics of a 16yo in many of the poses that the older model did :eek:

I need some suggestions on poses for this girl. Maybe some storyline type shots?

Let's just say that what I have been shooting lately just will not fly with ME with a model of that age.

HELP!

[team D.A.T.A.]

Simple...How would your grandmother shoot the photos? A girl needs to be a girl and remain that way as long as she can. She doesn't need grown up adult sexy shots taken. Whoever tells her that is worthless. OK, not worthless, maybe not the best word, but not a good person to be sure. Women don't need to sell themselves sexually to have worth or to be noticed. The bad thing is this; It is the women telling them that is what they need to do. Just say no.

Sorry, I forgot to get off my soapbox.

[OFRD_GRL]

She might need pictures that make her look like an adult... but definitely not ones that make her look like an easy adult....

make sense?

im trying to think of how to explain the poses to do with her, but i think im gonna have to go on a google image search to show you whats in my head LOL

[OFRD_GRL]

ignore the outfits in all of these... i did a google search for poses

something like this would be cute. without the arching of the back so all u see is boobs LOL
http://english.people.com.cn/200409/01/images/0831_A16.jpg

this is cute, more adult but still tasteful
http://www.thequestforit.com/photos/uncategorized/americas_next_top_model_natasha__cyc_8.jpg

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music/bssladies.jpg

(OBVIOUSLY not in this outfit.. but its cute and if shes not dressed nasty it wouldnt come off bad)
http://www.bobpardue.com/model/images/lindy/lindy-3.jpg


just some suggestions :D

[Tiffany]

I agree with both of you. And I know what she is trying to do, all her pics at this point are very "young". More like she is a little kid young than a teen young. I am damn sure wont be the one to take her to hooker young!!!

Hell, some of the adult women I have shot I am a bit uneasy with what they want...but if you are of age and that's what you want...that's your call.

Thanks for the images Una, I have some ideas now for sure.

[OFRD_GRL]

your welcome!!!

[team D.A.T.A.]

Yeah, those poses aren't bad. Although I don't want my 16yo posing in a bikini top.

[Jake_Blues]

So have a very pretty 16yo who is entering the modeling world. Wants to show her "versatility" in her portfolio. Asked me to help her cause she liked some of the work I did for another model...well without saying it, I damn sure don't want to be shooting pics of a 16yo in many of the poses that the older model did :eek:


Simple...How would your grandmother shoot the photos? A girl needs to be a girl and remain that way as long as she can. She doesn't need grown up adult sexy shots taken. Whoever tells her that is worthless. OK, not worthless, maybe not the best word, but not a good person to be sure. Women don't need to sell themselves sexually to have worth or to be noticed. The bad thing is this; It is the women telling them that is what they need to do. Just say no.


To put forth the opposing viewpoint: Sex sells. If this girl wants sexy photos taken, either take them or send her on her way if you aren't comfortable taking them, but her career may depend on being able to present herself in all sorts of different ways, including uber-sexy.

So I would say she probably does need sexy shots taken, if she is going to work in that industry, and I don't feel like a bad person for saying it. Women aren't hired as models because they have a nice personality, they are hired because they are attractive and can sell a product. Her worth as a model, like it or not, is going to be judged on how attractive she is and how versatile she can be; cute, sexy, etc.

She may not need to sell herself sexually to have worth as a person, but she does have to sell herself sexually to have worth as a model, because sex sells.

-E

[team D.A.T.A.]

Good point Jake, but hello, she's 16.

[Tiffany]

Good point Jake, but hello, she's 16.
x2

At 16 she is not going to get the gigs that an exact copy of her, only 2 years older, will. Many agencies wont hire models under 18 because of the liability.

When she is 18 and is going after those gigs cool, but at 16 and a very young look (she could pass for 12-13 with no problem or effort) I wont be the one to put her ass up in the air and shoot it.

She is asking for a more mature look, not a more sexy look. I want to make sure I do just that for her which is why I asked opinions. I know professional photogs who wont shot anyone under the age of 18. Period. Some will with a parent present.

[Jake_Blues]

Good point Jake, but hello, she's 16.

So? Until fairly recently 16 was marrying age. Sixteen year olds can and are having sex, getting pregnant, raising families, etc. Sixteen year olds are dressing in some very revealing outfits at the mall, far worse than you'd see in a magazine.

Do you make your 16 year old wear a burka to the beach? A woman can make a pair of jeans and a men's button down shirt the sexiest thing in the world, and a tiny little two-piece swimsuit can be perfectly innocent.

What you're really saying is that you don't want your sixteen year old to display body language that would indicate she's interested in sex. Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, chances are she IS interested in sex.

And if a woman is going to have a career in modeling, she has to be able to say "I will have sex with you if you buy this product" with a single pose.

-E

[Tiffany]

When she is 18 Jake. For the most part, my experiences have been that under 18 models that send sexy photos in their port tend to be passed over very quickly. No one wants to put their career on the line with an underage model being put in a bad situation.

Even in the under 18 mags the models are over 18 that are doing the sex sells ads.

You and Data can have this arguement, I got my question answered in an intelligenet and thoughtful way by Una.

For real though, she ain't my kid, not my concerns what she does, but she didn't ask for sex sells photos, she asked for can I at least look my age photos.

[Brutus]

Personally, I need to see pics to decide... JK.

[satan]

I'm thinking that I'd go with poses that would reflect her potential working areas. Watch a little TV (for commercials & sitcomms with the Teens). I'd be all about looking through print work (mags, newspapers, catalogs, ...).

... and get a parental release! (I used to, even for new-born portrait work)

[Tiffany]

Stan I spend more time reading fashion mags and crap I feel almost like wearing a dress...almost ;)

Not only does she get to a parental release, I have asked her to bring a parent to our preshoot meeting and the shoot.

[OFRD_GRL]

Yeah, those poses aren't bad. Although I don't want my 16yo posing in a bikini top.

well... thats why i said ignore the outfits and dont use those ones :D

[Rhino95]

I think the outfit is FAR more important than the poses. Get her to wear something that makes her look professional. A business suit might look cute. Something that makes her look older.

Another thing to think about is location. Where are you going to be shooting? If you're just using a backdrop then you can get away with far more choices in outfits than if you were going to go shoot, say, downtown. (Which is cool and there are LOTS of creative places to shoot there)

[ColoradoSkier]

I agree with Rhino. Try this set for example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fireflydenver/sets/72157600375390765/

(sample image) http://static.flickr.com/1343/557892125_f33779a548.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fireflydenver/557892125/)

[OFRD_GRL]

i like the clothes she has on actually.

a more mature adult woman type outfit but with a coverup thing to block the important bits!

also... (and Im sure you are) but remember to get a consent by legal guardian form signed.

[thenimirra]

do you have an image of her we can see...that might help with some suggestions on poses...but so far I've agreed with others who say there are ways to make her keep her integrity has a teenager, but look older in her photos too. Help her learn to express her natural beauty. Some of the most fantastic shots I've seen were so damn simple, but beautiful and elegant.

Close ups of her eyes and face, a smile, a true instance where she's laughing. Props are a great idea too with her doing teenage stuff...how about her talking endlessly on the phone, or instant messaging on the computer...or a shot of her multitasking the way teens do with surfing the internet, doing homework, talking on the cell phone AND watching TV at the same time. Does she like any sports...get some shots of her being active and moving around maybe.

[OFRD_GRL]

I think Sheeba hit the nail on the head.

"Elegant"

go for that look, even sophisticated.....

WAY TO GO SHEEBA!!!!!

[thenimirra]

LOL! Thanks Una!

[OFRD_GRL]

you are welcome my dear!

[Jeffro600]

This is my take on it...

If shes paying for the work, give her what SHE wants...not what you feel is proper for a 16 year old. If you dont feel comfortable posing a 16 year old in positions or clothes she wants, then id refer her elsewhere. Doing photography for money is all about giving the customer what they have pictured inside their mind...and that may not always be the proper or correct thing.

[OFRD_GRL]

That is a very good point. However IF you were to do what the 16 year old wanted. And you are not totally comfortable with it due to their age. MAKE SURE they have a legal parent/guardian present for all photos to cover your ass. Along with a signed consent form from the parent agreeing to the type of photos the 16 y/o wants.

[Jeffro600]

That is a very good point. However IF you were to do what the 16 year old wanted. And you are not totally comfortable with it due to their age. MAKE SURE they have a legal parent/guardian present for all photos to cover your ass. Along with a signed consent form from the parent agreeing to the type of photos the 16 y/o wants.

X2 on the consent form...you dont need no wackjob parents screaming lawsuits cuz you took some halfway racy pics of their daughter...

[Tiffany]

OK, my mistake in verbiage I guess, she has asked me to come up with some pose/style ideas for her. She is not asking me to do anything other than help her build a portfolio. Her current port is not racy at all, she just looks way younger than she is.

As far as consent goes, her mother will be at the pre-shoot meeting and at the shoot. Think I said that earlier.

As a photographer you are expected to have a good chunk of the shot ideas ready to go for the model, not the model telling you what to do. At least that is what all the folks I am shooting for have told me. The agent may give you a concept idea, but you are expected to make that concept come true in your way of interpreting it.

[Jeffro600]

Ohh, ok..i misunderstood. I was under the impression she had something more adult in mind and you were uneasy about it.

Anywho...the advice given above is good. Get a bunch of examples together and let her pick and choose what she likes and build on that.

[ColoradoSkier]

That's why I don't shoot people (yet anyway). :)

[Rhino95]

That's why I don't shoot people (yet anyway). :)

x a bazillion three fold!

I don't think I would be able to. I can handle the normal poses and the "assembly line" photo work like I do at lifetouch, but no way could I handle a model. Not my thing...yet.

[ColoradoSkier]

I could handle one - oh wait, you mean for taking pics. :P

[Jeffro600]

Some people can do it...some cant. I for one dont have the patients to deal with most people when it comes to studio style work. Its just not something i enjoy...people are often the hardest things to photograph because acting natural around a camera does not come easy for most.

[thenimirra]

I don't find it difficult to work with people at all while shooting. I've only had that one issue with that one crazy asshat client (but that was after shoot during the financial part of the process).

[Jeffro600]

I usually dont find the peoples atttitudes hard to work with...mostly their facial expressions, body language and other issues. Working with semi/and pro models is totally different from the typical person of the street who wants professional looking portraits as most of them arent trained to have that "model" look and i dont have the patients to try to get them to obtain that :P