02 Dodge, left me stranded last night (confirmed ECM died)

[Eric]

Driving home from work last night the truck developed a random studder that got worse as time went by. Within minutes I was limping into a fast food parking lot with the coolant sensor buried in the hot position. It was ~22?F last night so my first thought was frozen water in the fuel clogging a filter, despite the indicated 15psi fuel pressure (measured after the filter), but when I saw the coolant sensor pegged I knew something else was up.

I popped the hood and felt the coolant hoses and they were just warm, not hot, consistent with the fact that I had just started the truck a few minutes earlier. I even removed the cap (minimal spillage) and felt the fluid, just warm not hot. I checked the fuel bowl/filter and that looked perfectly fine, and when I turned the key on it took a second for the pressure to build back to 15 psi so I know the gauge is working. I also noticed that the coolant sensor started out at the cold position, and then very erratically made its way to the full hot position, all this while the engine was off (behaves identically with the engine running). I started the truck and it idles fine, but pressing the throttle is like stepping on a sponge, the rpms very slowly rise and there's obviously no power there. One time in the past I started the truck with the MAP sensor disconnected and it feels just like that. By now the CEL and the water in fuel light were illuminated as well, but the other gauges appear to be functioning normally (voltage, rpm, oil pressure). I checked the codes (see below) then I unplugged the Edge EZ from both the data port and the map sensor, reconnecting the map sensor to the stock harness. No change. I even tried unplugging the coolant sensor (by the thermostat) and the coolant gauge was unaffected, it still moved erratically from full cold to full hot over about 10 seconds (and then it stays full hot).

Here's the lengthy list of codes, all of which came from the ECU (PCU only had the 1693 code):
P0112 (M) Intake Air Temp Sensor Voltage Low Intake air (charge) temperature sensor input below the
minimum acceptable voltage.
P0177 Water In Fuel Excess water found in fuel by water-in-fuel sensor.
P0178 Fuel Sensor Voltage Too Low, Loss of water-in-fuel circuit or sensor.
P0217 Decreased Engine Performance Due
To Engine Overheat Condition
Engine overheating. ECM will derate engine performance.
P0237 (M) Map Sensor Voltage Too Low MAP sensor voltage input below the minimum acceptable voltage.
P0342 ??? not listed in the 24v code list
P0562 Charging System Voltage Too Low Supply voltage sensed at ECM too low.
P0575 ??? not listed in the 24v code listI had no codes whatsoever before this, and I can't help but notice the repeated "voltage too low" references, especially P0562. Again the voltage meter appears to be reading correctly, it's around 12v with the engine off and moves up to 14v with the engine running. I looked at the fuses under the hood and on the side of the dash and I didn't see any that were blown, but it was also friggin' cold and I didn't pull each one to inspect it. I just looked closely at the fuse element with my flashlight. The coolant sensor appears to be the only dash gauge malfunctioning, and all of the lights on the truck are nice and bright. Even the exhaust brake still works when I'm idling.

I got a ride home but the truck is currently stranded at the same fast food parking lot. I checked all of the ground points that I could see, and I'm at a loss for where to look for this electrical gremlin. Has anyone encountered this before???

I did some digging through the FSM and found two fuse circuits that feed the ECM.

I looked at the Fuse 3 circuit (see link), and it supplies both the ECM and the fuel pump relay. Visually Fuse 3 looked fine, and I know the fuel pump relay is working because my fuel pump is working. So it seems the problem is either in Joint Connector 2, the ECM connector (pin 48 or 50), or the ECM itself, unless there's a fuse somewhere in between JC2 and the ECM? Or is the P0562 code referring to a different voltage source for the ECM (ie. not pins 48 or 50)? You can view the Fuse 3 circuit here (http://colorado4x4.org/er/dodge/Fuse3.jpg).
I looked at the Fuse 9 circuit, and this also services the PCM which is not currently complaining about any voltage issues.
Fuse 9 circuit (http://www.co4x4.org/er/dodge/Fuse9.jpg)
It looked fine last night, but I'll pull it and take a closer look at it.

[Mack]

Eric-
I had the same problem (not quite as in-depth as yours, in terms of codes), but, on really cold start days, i would experience the same thing- start it up, would start a bit rough, but when you hit the petal- nothing. Super slow RPM's to rise, sounds like someone's choking a cat, 0 power. Turns out- my batteries were shot. The gauges read fine, but they were reading what the alternator was putting out, which wasn't recharging the batteries at the same rate as the truck was depleting them (heater grid plate, headlights, etc.). I replaced the batteries, and everything went back to normal. Of course, I replaced the alternator about two months later as well, as it died. Can't complain though- the original batteries in the truck lasted 8 years....

[Eric]

Hmm... I have optima red tops in it, and they're only a year or two old. Key on / engine off the gauge appeared to be around 12 volts, and I tried starting it with the headlights off and no change in the behavior. So I guess I'm suspicious that it's the batteries, but I'll check into it. Thanks for the suggestion :thumbsup:

[Mack]

Yeah, being that they're fairly new, I'd be hesitant to suspect the batteries, but then again, Optimas lately have not been holding up the way they used to. Could be they're just holding a surface charge of 12v, with no amperage behind it.

[Jeffro600]

Shoulda bought a toyota?? :flipoff2:

Sorry, just had to throw some sarcasm in there! :P

[Eric]

Toyota doesn't make a full size diesel, so not even an option.

Over lunch I tried cleaning the battery terminals, no luck. I took them all off, cleaned them, coated with dielectric grease, and reinstalled them. No change. It seemed like it was better when cold, because I could bring the rpms up and you'd hear it drop out every second or so. As time went on the drop outs got longer and longer until finally it's was mostly limping with an occasional kick in. Along the way I noticed that the coolant gauge would head towards the full hot position when it was "out" and return to a normal reading when it was "in". I also noticed the cruise control indicator was turning on and off like someone was pushing the button. Actually pushing the cruise button did nothing. This time it looked like it took longer than usual to get to 14+ volts, so I hooked jumper cables to the car to give it an alternate source of power. No change whatsoever. The voltage gauge is steady, it's doesn't move as the engine kicks in / drops out. I checked the fuses I mentioned above, they're fine.

At this point I have to make plans to tow it back home where I can start troubleshooting it more effectively. I've examined all the ground connections I know of, but once I have it home I can take a closer look and break out the multimeter. Oh joy.

[satan]

Just a W.A.G. here -- any chance that you've got a shorted to ground sensor wire (specifically something on the supply side?)

That would pull-down the sensor source voltage on the outside of the PCM -- every "returned" value would read as if there was an issue (like a regulated 5v feed to a MAP would read "LOW" because the actual source was 2 or whatever) -- temps would read high since the sensor would be supplied low volts (temp sensors reduce resistance as they get hotter - sinking current and dropping voltage, like that) etc...

Seriously, it's my Wild A$$ed Guess, but I'd bet that you've got one pesky sensor wire pulling to ground (maybe even through a failed sensor) - maybe check the supply voltage to the MAP, IAT, CTS etc ... ??

You close enough where I could lend a hand?

[josh j]

I don't have much experience with engines of any kind, but after stumbling across this, I'd have to agree w/ Satan. You likely are shorting out your +5V sensor voltage somewhere...

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=81936&page=1&pp=15

[Eric]

Sounds like a good possibility, thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully I can find the gremlin this weekend.

[Eric]

It was perfect weather this morning to be working on the truck outside :rolleyes: I was using a heat gun to warm up each connector just so I wouldn't risk breaking off the retaining tabs. Eventually it warmed up to be a nice day. Anyway, I spent most of the morning looking over all of the wire routing and checking things with my multimeter. I checked the voltage at each of the sensors that the ECM was complaining about (IAT, CTS, WIF) and they all checked out with a healthy 5V. I checked the resistance of the sensors themselves, no problems. I checked the signal return leads for each connector and those appeared fine as well. So I pulled the ECM connector to check things at the ECM connection (disconnected the batteries first, removed connector, reconnected batteries). 12V supply to the ECM was fine (pins 48 and 50), as were the two grounds (pins 30 and 49). I checked the continuity and isolation of each sensor at the connector and again, everything checked out fine. So I swapped out the ECM with the spare (once again disconnecting the batteries while plugging in the ECM), turned the key, and everything was back to normal! :bounce::bounce:

Just to confirm I had found the gremlin, I shut it down and swapped the old ECM back in. All of the problems returned. I swapped the spare ECM back in, and all of the problems were gone. Bingo. :cool:

So on the bright side I found the problem, unfortunately it's an expensive one :( With 108,000 miles on the clock I'm just outside of the Cummins warranty. Lovely. Any suggestions for sourcing a replacement?

Btw, the ECM diagram mentioned here (http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/24-valve-engine-transmission-1998-5-2002/190100-inside-ecu-3.html#post1832392) was extremely helpful. I attached the PDF of the circuit diagram. I wish I had the rest of the manual available (see link for part #), but I was thankful for this much.

Jason, I owe you one for the ECM loaner!!!

[Jason Starnes]

It was perfect weather this morning to be working on the truck outside :rolleyes: I was using a heat gun to warm up each connector just so I wouldn't risk breaking off the retaining tabs. Eventually it warmed up to be a nice day. Anyway, I spent most of the morning looking over all of the wire routing and checking things with my multimeter. I checked the voltage at each of the sensors that the ECM was complaining about (IAT, CTS, WIF) and they all checked out with a healthy 5V. I checked the resistance of the sensors themselves, no problems. I checked the signal return leads for each connector and those appeared fine as well. So I pulled the ECM connector to check things at the ECM connection (disconnected the batteries first, removed connector, reconnected batteries). 12V supply to the ECM was fine (pins 48 and 50), as were the two grounds (pins 30 and 49). I checked the continuity and isolation of each sensor at the connector and again, everything checked out fine. So I swapped out the ECM with the spare (once again disconnecting the batteries while plugging in the ECM), turned the key, and everything was back to normal! :bounce::bounce:

Just to confirm I had found the gremlin, I shut it down and swapped the old ECM back in. All of the problems returned. I swapped the spare ECM back in, and all of the problems were gone. Bingo. :cool:

So on the bright side I found the problem, unfortunately it's an expensive one :( With 108,000 miles on the clock I'm just outside of the Cummins warranty. Lovely. Any suggestions for sourcing a replacement?

Btw, the ECM diagram mentioned here (http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/24-valve-engine-transmission-1998-5-2002/190100-inside-ecu-3.html#post1832392) was extremely helpful. I attached the PDF of the circuit diagram. I wish I had the rest of the manual available (see link for part #), but I was thankful for this much.

Jason, I owe you one for the ECM loaner!!!

just glad Im good for something

and I didnt think of it but I have a factory manual too.... great back to good for nothing I go......

[Camp]

Any suggestions for sourcing a replacement?


look here (http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=18)


Some days I kill myself :flipoff2:



Glad you found the issue. Sounds like its time for a Smarty :evil:

[Eric]

:flipoff2: Where's my ban stick...

You know, I was interested in the Smarty but lately this is sounding pretty impressive:
Quadzilla Adrenaline (http://www.quadzillapower.com/products/adrenaline_98-02.html)

Right now I'll settle for a stock ecu :rolleyes: Got a few leads on used ones.

[Jason Starnes]

:flipoff2: Where's my ban stick...

You know, I was interested in the Smarty but lately this is sounding pretty impressive:
Quadzilla Adrenaline (http://www.quadzillapower.com/products/adrenaline_98-02.html)

Right now I'll settle for a stock ecu :rolleyes: Got a few leads on used ones.

hummm

you wanna buy an ecm with the madecm software in it already for the low low price of $749.00...... and thats a deal.......

[Eric]

$749 is the suggested price, it's available for $649 same as the Smarty. No thanks on the MADecm, I think Marco messed up when he made those non-flashable :( Hence my desire to retain a stock ECM. There's one on ebay right now, plus a few leads on TDR. I don't know what ECM's are interchangable though, do you? Right now I'm assuming any HO 6spd ECM will work.

[Camp]

That thing sounds pretty nice. I'll be curious to see what you go with and if it works as good as your current set up.

[Eric]

I'm stuck with my current setup for quite some time, but it's been interesting reading the beta test results for it. I need a bigger turbo before adding any more fuel. Honestly I'd probably prefer swapping in lower gears as the next mod vs. adding more power. 80mph @ 2k rpm is nice for highway cruising, sucks for towing.

[Mack]

Eric-
What mods do you have?

I'd advise against re-gearing, but that's my .02. I Had the stocker 3.55's, went to 35"s, got great mileage, low rpm's, and towed just fine. Went to the 4.10's (thinking it would help me with towing), dropped 4 MPG, got to speed a bit quicker, but that was about it. Didn't notice too much towing, except I couldn't go as fast :D

[Camp]

I'm stuck with my current setup for quite some time, but it's been interesting reading the beta test results for it. I need a bigger turbo before adding any more fuel. Honestly I'd probably prefer swapping in lower gears as the next mod vs. adding more power. 80mph @ 2k rpm is nice for highway cruising, sucks for towing.

Trade ya axles :D I got the 3.73's you need :D

[Eric]

Eric-
What mods do you have?
Performance:

BHAF w/ Outerwears
4" Summit exhaust (beware the hanger by the tranny, it's known to tear off over time)
Mach 1.6 (ie. 100 hp) injectors
Edge EZ
Southbend Con OFE clutch
Jacobs exhaust brake
IAT bypass resistor for cold weather (EZ has too much timing, causes a miss in cold weather)Gauges:

Westach combo boost/EGT
Westach 0-16 psi fuel pressure (pickup is post-filter)Fuel supply:

Walbro 392 fuel pump
Mallory 3-port externally-adjustable fuel pressure regulator
AN fittings and hose throughout, no more factory banjo fitting crap
Stock fuel pickup module (tried the drawstraw, hated it)The last dyno I went to was ~400 hp / 860 ft-lbs with a slipping clutch (Southbend went in right after that). Nothing crazy compared to what's available out there for performance, but enough to exceed the capabilities of my HX-35 turbo. I run ~32 psi and drive with one eye on the EGT gauge on the hills when towing.

I'd advise against re-gearing, but that's my .02. I Had the stocker 3.55's, went to 35"s, got great mileage, low rpm's, and towed just fine. Went to the 4.10's (thinking it would help me with towing), dropped 4 MPG, got to speed a bit quicker, but that was about it. Didn't notice too much towing, except I couldn't go as fast :D

Were you towing in OD? In 6th gear if I'm towing at <70 mph I'm on the wrong side of the torque curve, things just get worse as I slow down. Right now it tows about the same as when I had the little donut stock tires, stock injectors, and just the EZ. It seems the 100hp injectors canceled out the 35" tires, but now I'm running hotter (much worse if I drop to 5th and run higher rpms).

Trade ya axles :D I got the 3.73's you need :D

I think those dually axles would look a little goofy on my 3/4 ton shortbed LOL. At least you have a decent LSD option, the Dana 80 options are pretty sucky. Otherwise I think 3.73 would be the right ratio for these tires. That'd drop me back down to about 75 mph @ 2k rpm. Going back to the dinky stock tires isn't an option, I like the 315's too much.

[Mack]

Sounds about like my old rig- I had the '99 with:

K&N FIPK BHAF
4" Exhaust
Bosch 300 Injectors
Edge Drag Comp
Built tranny (I had the auto, so they built it up with shift kit, HD TC, 6 gear planetaries, etc).

Had the Autometer EGT/Boost/Trans and Isspro FP

Went with the FASS 150GPH setup, with the stock fuel pickup.

Actually sounds like you and I had very similar setups, minus the exhaust brake (since the old Auto's didn't take those too well). Mine (like yours) was at the outer end of turbo. I started looking at the HX40's, 45's and bigger, but then I was looking at bigger injectors and bigger intercooler, and that stuff just adds up...

So, I bought a Gen 3 Mega Cab, so I can start the damn process all over again. All these lies of Camp's 1000lbft :flipoff2: have me itching to get a chip and some Inj's on it, but I'll wait until the warranty's up...

I was towing in OD, correct. Towing with the OD actually dropped me right where I wanted it to be in terms of torque- just at the bottom end in OD, so i could cruise the flats without problem, but dropping back into 4th put me at the upper end of the torque curve to still pull well. Once I went to the 4.10's, it really set all of that to the right- OD was at the upper end of the Tband, and dropping into 4th put me out of it, unless I slowed down (which, I don't like doing- 75mph all day long is just fine with me). I was on a 2" leveler and 315's, which it sounds like you're running as well.

[Camp]

So, I bought a Gen 3 Mega Cab, so I can start the damn process all over again. All these lies of Camp's 1000lbft :flipoff2: have me itching to get a chip and some Inj's on it, but I'll wait until the warranty's up...

I put down 495/1006 just before Eric put down the numbers he listed. Dmeis, Cresso, and Scott were there that day as well. By the way, did anyone notice Cresso's new number :eek: Guess I need to get cracking on that new turbo and injectors :evil:

Having driven Eric's truck on a number of occasions, I like the power of the 2nd Gen's better when set up like that. I have driven another one that has been turned up a bit and they just drive better than the 3rd gens. The power comes on right away, unlike my truck :(

[Eric]

I was on a 2" leveler and 315's, which it sounds like you're running as well.
No leveler kit here, just running the stock suspension.

I put down 495/1006 just before Eric put down the numbers he listed. And you did so with a single plug-in mod... bastard. :flipoff2:

[Mack]

True, but all of your numbers are better then my 325/610 stock rating :D

I do agree with Camp though- the 2nd gens hit HARD, when the turbo kicked in, and the turbo kicked in quick. These new 3rd gens drive like, well, a gasser. Which is nice, when I can get in, dead of winter, and have my 'wait to start' light last less then 5 seconds vs. the full 30 with my old one, but, the power's just sort of different. Perhaps I'm still comparing a stock truck to a modded one, so we'll see once I start throwing go-fast parts on this one....

Are you running stock wheels? I had some larger offset wheels that required me to run the leveler, then I went back to stockers and I'm not convinced it needed the lever to clear 'em.

[Eric]

I do agree with Camp though- the 2nd gens hit HARD, when the turbo kicked in, and the turbo kicked in quick. These new 3rd gens drive like, well, a gasser.

Very true, and the most noticable difference whenever I drive Chad's truck (or he drives mine). The off-idle response is a night and day difference. I prefer the 2nd gen response.

Are you running stock wheels? I had some larger offset wheels that required me to run the leveler, then I went back to stockers and I'm not convinced it needed the lever to clear 'em.
H2 wheels, and I get only a very slight rubbing of the mudflaps when turning full lock.

[Eric]

Replacement ECM arrived and it's working perfectly. Not only is it the correct part number, but it is even the same code version so it's like I found my ECM's twin :thumbsup: Hopefully this is the "good" twin.

[guapotaco]

this is some interesting reading on why these vp44, and ecm's fail,and what these guys have done to address it
http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/vp44diagnostichelp.html