School me on dirt bikes

[BFJ93YJ]

I am getting a $2k bouns from work in December and have thought about what to do with it....save it? Hell no, that wouldn't be any fun. I am thinking about getting a dirt bike, but don't know a lot about them. Granted I know the difference between a 2 and 4 stroke, 125cc, 250cc, etc but not sure what is best. Some background.....

I am 6'2", 225 pounds and haven't ridden a motorcycle much. I can ride an auto or clutch, but defaintely need to learn more. I will typically be riding trails in the mountains and will occasionally go to a track.

I was thinking a 125cc 2 stroke would be best, but that is where you all come in. What do you think? I am looking to spend about $1k and have have found a lot of 1998-2001 125cc bikes on Craigslist for about that price. What brand is best? I know Honda makes a good bike, but is there something better?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Jeffro600]

Considering you size and weight, i dont think you'd be very happy with a 125 2 stroke. Their pretty pipey and have a pretty narrow power delivery and isnt the best choice for a trail bike.

Being new to riding, id suggest an XR 400...would be great for trails around here, good compromise for your size and weight, and not totally overkill in the power department that your going to scare yourself riding it. Their simple, easy to ride, cheap to work on and will run forever if you keep on the maintenance.

[ishmaelcallme]

Trail riding for a big guy? 250cc 4 stroke. A 125cc 2 stroke has lots of top end, but little low end torque that you need for trail riding at sane speeds. Especially if not an expert. More reliable and less PM, too.

[Chris J]

ditto on the XR for a guy your size. I'm 6'3"/210lbs and ride an XR650R. I've ridden CRF450's and they just feel too tiny. The XR is dead on reliable and has gobs of torque from way down low. It's a great trail bike and can be taken to the track to screw around as well.

[PhantomD AKA Zach]

I would say a 400cc 4-stroke... drz400, xr400, wr400...

a 125 would be WAY too small... and 2-strokes are going out as far as dirt bikes are concerned... 4 stroke thumpers (single cylinders) are tourquey and should be much better...

Zach

[Budman]

def go with a 4 stroker. I would say a 400 as well, unless you want my 650...

[ZappBranigan]

Do they even make 2 strokes anymore? Between noise and smoke rules I would have figured all the dirt bikes would be 4 stroke.

BFJ: Are you looking for a pure dirt bike or a dual sport? Sounds like pure dirt - if so, since you have a YJ you'll also want to factor in the trailer.

I'm looking for a D/S myself. Something from either a Yamaha TW200 (fat tired d/s) up to a Kawasaki KLR 650. The KLR would be a lot more capable, but also more expensive.

[CGuava]

Rode a YZ426, i'm about 215, and it worked great when I needed it. Youll hate a 125, you're too big for it and you'll have to be pinned pretty much all the time, which for a beginning rider, would be scary as hell.

[COONER]

I,M IN A SIMILAR SITUATION, LOOKING TO GET A DIRT BIKE THIS SPRING AND I HAVE TALKED TO A FEW PEOPLE THAT RIDE AND I WAS TOLD TO GO 400cc or BIGGER SO I AM GOING WITH A KTM 450

[teamextreme]

Do they even make 2 strokes anymore? Between noise and smoke rules I would have figured all the dirt bikes would be 4 stroke.

Yes they do. Smoke is an issue, yes, but 2 strokes are far quieter than 4 strokes, at least the performance racing 4 strokes ie; crf's yzf's etc. They are "thumpers", right? Low frequency sound waves. How far away can you hear the cool guy bump'in 15" woofers in his ride versus someone with just a loud stereo without the massive bass?

I agree the 2 stroke 125 would be too small and too pipey for you. I would second an XR400, or DRZ400, but would also recommend looking at a larger 2 stroke, especially an off-road one, which will have a lot better low end power unlike the 125 mx'ers. I'd consider a Kawasaki KDX220, or a KTM EXC 200, 250 or 300.

[Steve]

I agree with everyone else that a 125 (whether it's 2 stroke or 4 stroke) is too small for you. I have two bikes, a Kawasaki KDX 200 (2 stroke) and a Yamaha WR400 (4 stroke.) They're both fun, but I much prefer the Yamaha because of its low RPM torque vs. the high RPM HP of the 2 stroke.

[BFJ93YJ]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm glad I posted here first.

Now I'll be looking for something around 400cc :)

Would this big of a bike be OK to learn on?

[Jeffro600]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm glad I posted here first.

Now I'll be looking for something around 400cc :)

Would this big of a bike be OK to learn on?

XR 400's are very mild mannered and are a good platform for learning the ropes on. Now if you were looking at the one of the CRF or YZF 400-450's, thats a whole different beast. My last dirt bike was a CRF 450 and that thing was stupid, scary fast!

[mtntj]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm glad I posted here first.

Now I'll be looking for something around 400cc :)

Would this big of a bike be OK to learn on?

I'm 6'3 about 220, i ride an xr650,but that be a bit much if you are just getting restared in the sport. Sounds to me like the xr400 would be a great bike for you. They are bullet proof. Trail friendly, good all around play bike. That being said any bike in 400cc range, that's in good shape will keep you smiling.:thumbsup:

[LoneZuk]

If you are into fun/technical trails (not a track), try a trials bike.

A used 300+ cc 2 or 4 stroke should be fine.

I (225 lbs) have a 350cc two stroke that runs on 120 octane (premix).


Also have an old Honda 125cc 4 stroke trials that is slow but will go anywhere.

These are not road bikes !

[sonofmayhem]

Get something with electric start. I have had the crf450 and a yz400f, both insane bikes, but a bitch to start back up. Id say cr250x or if they make the 450x or 400x.

[FirecrackerKTM]

Trail riding for a big guy? 250cc 4 stroke. A 125cc 2 stroke has lots of top end, but little low end torque that you need for trail riding at sane speeds. Especially if not an expert. More reliable and less PM, too.
I've ridden 125s and 250Fs and there's not a big power difference between em. Especially at altitude, you have to keep the 250s wound up too.
Do they even make 2 strokes anymore? Between noise and smoke rules I would have figured all the dirt bikes would be 4 stroke.

Yes they do ... AMA regulations and racing politics drives the Japanese import market, but the Euro makers have quiet, torquey, fast two strokes. And two strokes are significantly quieter than most of the new breed of four strokes.
If you are into fun/technical trails (not a track), try a trials bike.

A used 300+ cc 2 or 4 stroke should be fine.

I (225 lbs) have a 350cc two stroke that runs on 120 octane (premix).


Also have an old Honda 125cc 4 stroke trials that is slow but will go anywhere.

These are not road bikes !
Whoa now ... trials bikes are fun as hell, but not something he's going to want to be cruising trails on! I say, get one as a second bike to build up some technical skills on later.
Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm glad I posted here first.

Now I'll be looking for something around 400cc :)

Would this big of a bike be OK to learn on?
Just remember, they only go as fast as you tell em to! You'll be fine. Be sure to get all the protective gear you can afford, and don't cheap out on the boots. I've seen a foot get wrapped around the footpeg and it was fairly unpleasant.

[BIGNICK91K5]

i have owned several bikes and i am also a big guy 6'3 250 i currently ride a crf450

great on track and trails

don't go with a 125 you won't like it there for you won't enjoy riding as much

for $2000 or under you are probably looking at a early 1990's 250 2 stroke which i s a decent bike i owned a 1992 kawsaki 250 2stroker decent ride with plenty of power for a noob try to get one with the inverted front shocks i think they switched to the new style around 1990+-

[Cat118!]

imo I raced them for a couple years on track and love my 2 stroke 125. For you a bigger one is needed. If your looking for a more all around bike do the 4 stroke. Will be better for trails and good on tracks. I ride my 2 up in the mnts and work harder then my friends on the 4. And a 2 can be more finiky with altittude change. but I still love my 2!

[Jeffro600]

I've ridden 125s and 250Fs and there's not a big power difference between em. Especially at altitude, you have to keep the 250s wound up too.

Wound up to make em go fast...but they have GOBS more torque down low and are much more ridable than any 125 2 stroke ive ever seen or ridden...factory race bikes aside...altitude has very little effect difference between the two motors when properly tuned.

2 strokes are eventually going to go the way of the dinosaur...mostly due to EPA regulations and the fact that 4 strokes can make the same, if not more horsepower, with very similar weight, less emissions and make much more smooth, linear torque with no modification. Slow US sales arent helping their cause either...if i had to make an educated guess, based on current trends the last few years and advances in technology, i see 2 strokes being yanked off production lines within the next 5 years entirely.

If you really want a 2 stroke, check out any dealership around you. Most are willing to sell you a current years model for hugely discounted prices because they just plain dont sell them anymore. I bought a brand new, off the showroom floor 2006 CR250R in 2006 for almost half MSRP. Sold it two weeks after i bought it cuz i forgot how much 2 strokes suck(after coming off a YZ426)! :flipoff2:

[FirecrackerKTM]

Wound up to make em go fast...but they have GOBS more torque down low and are much more ridable than any 125 2 stroke ive ever seen or ridden...factory race bikes aside...altitude has very little effect difference between the two motors when properly tuned.

2 strokes are eventually going to go the way of the dinosaur...mostly due to EPA regulations and the fact that 4 strokes can make the same, if not more horsepower, with very similar weight, less emissions and make much more smooth, linear torque with no modification. Slow US sales arent helping their cause either...if i had to make an educated guess, based on current trends the last few years and advances in technology, i see 2 strokes being yanked off production lines within the next 5 years entirely.

If you really want a 2 stroke, check out any dealership around you. Most are willing to sell you a current years model for hugely discounted prices because they just plain dont sell them anymore. I bought a brand new, off the showroom floor 2006 CR250R in 2006 for almost half MSRP. Sold it two weeks after i bought it cuz i forgot how much 2 strokes suck(after coming off a YZ426)! :flipoff2:
The problem with saying "gobs more torque" is that we're still not comparing a 250 to a 250. Sure, a 250F produces more torque than a 125 2t, but I argue that you can't say they make "more" torque until we're comparing similar sized engines. I know that my 200 makes quite a bit more hp and a little more torque than a 250F. It lugs down as good as any 4 stroke, but still opens up and screams. A gearing change to make it a little easier to keep on the pipe and it'd scream at the MX track too--I've raced it quite a bit, but really it's too far between the gears to be a true MXer.

If it's linear power and torque that a rider wants, the Euro bikes have it, since they're fueled by the Euro enduro racing scene, which is not as "cool" here so it doesn't drive sales like the MX races do.

2 strokes' days being numbered is at best a rumor and driven by marketing and politics, not actual emissions. Modern 4 strokes have been tuned up too much to be anywhere near as "clean" as their air-cooled, XR and TTR forerunners. Further, the noise issues that newer 4 strokes have raised are killing the sport as a whole; the rumble of a 450 with aftermarket exhaust carries in a way 2 strokes never did, and it's making enemies of non-riders who never really cared before, but now they're joining ranks with the Sierra Club. Until we see an industry-wide push to quiet down the motors, all of dirt bikes' days are numbered. And that won't happen until everybody from the OEMs to the exhaust companies and local sanctioning bodies united to keep sound limits enforced. I'm pretty sure that most local riders aren't using half the HP their 450s and heck even 250s can produce, so that extra 1/2 HP from the 100+ dB aftermarket pipe isn't doing anybody but their egos any good.

With fuel injection coming out in the near future, 2 strokes may make a comeback. It happened in the snowmobile world 10 years ago. There was supposed to be an end to 2 stroke sleds, but they cleaned em up and put FI on them, and today it's really only Yamaha 4 strokes you see, and they've never been the biggest player in the sled world anyway.

While Japanese dirt bike makers may be dropping their 2 strokes, they still reign supreme from the Euro companies. Electric start came out this year; direct injection isn't too far away. Low-smoke oils are getting more popular, too.

I see "switching back" threads on the dirt bike forum all the time from 4 stroke riders coming back to 2. Whether it's cost of maintenance, handling, weight or starting ease, there are a lot of riders who are jumping off the 4 stroke bandwagon.

Just cuz you can't ride em doesn't mean 2 strokes suck :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Anyway, to the original poster, don't entirely discount 2 strokes because they're not "in" right now. They have their pros as well as the cons that have been discussed. If you're going to be doing mostly trail riding not racing, consider either a KDX like Steve's or one of KTM's enduro bikes, which will have the tall gearing, large tank, torquey power that will really shine in the woods. We paid $2250 for my fiance's 2002 380 EXC, which is pretty darn torquey and VERY easy to ride. They don't make them any more but the 300 is still around, and has a hugely popular following.

And before Steve says anything, yeah I love my KTMs, but they fill a niche the Jap makers have been ignoring since they dropped the KDX, WR and RMX 2 strokes. If there was anything else comparable out there ...

[Cat118!]

Just cuz you can't ride em doesn't mean 2 strokes suck :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


hehe Touche!
I keep up on the mnt trails with my buddies on 4's .... do work a bit harder But I love my 2!
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/Cat118/Me/169325278725_0_1.jpg

[FirecrackerKTM]

Try a KTM 200, or do a bigbore kit in your YZ. I've ridden some bored/stroked 125s, and they are absolutely phenomenal (though expensive).

[Jeffro600]

Just cuz you can't ride em doesn't mean 2 strokes suck :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Oh i can ride them...just dont see the point when a 4 will do everything a 2 will, only better. :flipoff2:

[Steve]

Oh i can ride them...just dont see the point when a 4 will do everything a 2 will, only better. :flipoff2:

Pretty much. I have one of each. I've ridden dirt bikes longer than many of you have been alive. I almost always prefer to ride the 4 stroke.