The day has come, our family is one less now

[ColoradoSkier]

Garrett, my 14yo step son, has been acting out now for several weeks. At first we just attributed it to him being 14, and all the stuff that goes along with the age and his ADHD.

It really all came to a head on Monday, when he came out and said he wanted to go live with his dad in Texas. As one might expect, this broke Jen's heart. She talked it over with his dad, and we were going to tentatively plan for this happening at the end of the semester (Xmas break time).

He pushed harder yesterday, and my wife has decided she has had enough. We booked him a flight out on Saturday.

It is hard to see him go, and it will be even harder on his two sisters and Jen. I can see where, in the long run, this will be better for all of us, since he clearly doesn't want to be here. But I also think that his perception of what life will be like down there is way off base, and it won't really solve whatever problems he has in his head. I expect him back in 3-6 months.

Anyone else been down this road?

[Tiffany]

I know you guys have probably discussed this to death, but are you sure it's the right thing to do? Pushing him away (how he may view it later) may push him all the way away.

[Gags]

Garrett, my 14yo step son, has been acting out now for several weeks. At first we just attributed it to him being 14, and all the stuff that goes along with the age and his ADHD.

It really all came to a head on Monday, when he came out and said he wanted to go live with his dad in Texas. As one might expect, this broke Jen's heart. She talked it over with his dad, and we were going to tentatively plan for this happening at the end of the semester (Xmas break time).

He pushed harder yesterday, and my wife has decided she has had enough. We booked him a flight out on Saturday.

It is hard to see him go, and it will be even harder on his two sisters and Jen. I can see where, in the long run, this will be better for all of us, since he clearly doesn't want to be here. But I also think that his perception of what life will be like down there is way off base, and it won't really solve whatever problems he has in his head. I expect him back in 3-6 months.

Anyone else been down this road?

Dude...Not me. It must be tough. You're the man.:beer:

[scottycards]

I left my Mom when I was 14 as well. Her and my Dad divorced when I was just 5. Mom was getting a new husband, and I wanted none of it.

So I left to go live with Dad. I was there for two years- in Dallas, TX.

Although it was pretty traumatic on my Mom, and wasn't what I expected either, it all worked out fine in the end. My Dad and I are close, and my Mom and I are fine.

It actually was a good learning experience for all involved.

HTH.

[ColoradoSkier]

Tiffster (sorry, needed some humor) - we have talked about it at great length. Bottom line is that this is what he wants, not us. But it is also very evident life will be hell for all of us unless he gets to go figure out what it's like down there.

Jen's thought is that he and I can't have a meaningful relationship because, in his eyes, it means replacing his dad. It will be interesting to see his reaction when he sees the letter jacket Megan ordered - she had my last name put on it and fully intends to change her name to mine as soon as she can do so without her dad's permission. That was a very flattering thing for her to do.

[Jason]

I pretty much did the same when I was 18......I came back to my mom within a month!

[cwkelle]

i know ever situation is different....so this is just my 2cents....
when i was younger i was a monster, my mom and step dad gave me the boot to go live with my dad.....needless to say me and my mom still dont have the best relationship....and my dad having never raised a kid had no idea what he was getting into, so that wasnt the best environment either...my acting out didnt stop because my dad was around, really there was just a lot going on with me, and to be honest noone just asked me what was going on, why i was acting the way i did.....for me when i pushed away it was just because i was messed up inside.....and when my mom gave up on me, i gave up on her too....anyway what do i know

[ColoradoSkier]

Thanks for the input cwkelle. We have asked him repeatedly, and it keeps coming back to him wanting to go live with his dad. Certainly not a decision we have made lightly, but we hope it turns out the best for him. That could easily mean that he sees what things are really like in the world, and comes back to us, or he is happy with the life he chooses down there. Pretty sure that moving from Lakewood to Rock Port, TX is going to involve some culture shock...

[scottycards]

Uh, yeah. When I moved to TX from Boulder, it was like going to Mars.

But he'll be fine, and he'll thank you for letting him make the decision.

[cwkelle]

just to make sure, what i said was just my 2cents, i know i situation like this is very sensitive, so just want to make sure you took what i said with a grain of salt......see when everything happened to me i didnt have the open door policy just a see ya.....hope everything for you guys and him turn out for the best!!!!!!!
hope i didnt step on any toes!!

[ColoradoSkier]

Driving from Lakewood to Boulder is like going to mars... ;)

[Tiffany]

Good luck to him. Hopefully he finds the right life balance and figures things out.

[Dave McDonald]

Driving from Lakewood to Boulder is like going to mars... ;)

I always thought of Boulder more like Venus.


Do you know if the Dad is going to be strict with the boy? I would hope that the Dad is going to show him that acting out isn't acceptable no matter the location.

I have a 9 year old that's acting out something fierce right now. If you ever need a fix of PITA attitude, let me know - I'll be happy to lend him out for a while.

[henpecked]

Been there done that...........Dont beat yourself up over him leaving. It is his choice. Wish him well, tell him you love him and you will always be a phone call away. Work with the dad and the son to make his transition easy.
Even though it hurts things will work out in the end whether he returns home or stays in Texas.
I went through the same ordeal........the kid was fine and I ended up with ulsers.
You, your wife and daughters are entitled to be happy too. Let things calm down and start enjoying your wife and kids again.

best of luck
Steve

[Hardcor4x4]

Driving from Lakewood to Boulder is like going to mars... ;)
LMAO :lmao:

Chester, this decision may infact help him come to realization what he had with you guys, help with a better relationship with you guys and see that it isn't what he though it was going to be like living with his Dad. He may decide that summers he'd rather be in Colorado and with his Dad during winter.

1 summer down there with 100 degree heat and 90% humidity he'll be begging to come back. LOL. I was in Dallas in mid August and we didn't venture outside the doors of the hotel much at all just because of the heat and humidity.

If it helps any i've got an 8yr old daughter with severe ADHD. can't wait till she's a teenager. :rolleyes: She's on like 70 some miligrams of Concerta everyday with a 20mg afternoon pill of ritalin. She's nicknamed Hurricane Katryna since her name is Katryna

[Swat]

Two sayings come to mind:

The grass is always greener......................

and

No matter where you go, there you are.

He may get down there and want back soon. I beleive you did good in letting him go. As said, keep the door open, support for him and his decision, but make him give it a real shot down there.

No matter where you go, there you are!.......Ah hell, we called it Greyhound therapy. He could mature and realize that he is at least part of the problems he is having here. You all get a break, though it is hard to let them go, it may prove very beneficial to all.

[Yota]

I'm guessing that what he really wanted (but probably doesn't even consciously realize) was not to have his parents split up in the first place. Such splits cause a TON of hurt to many kids. When I was a kid, my parents were the biggest constants in my life. If something had suddenly split them apart, I'd have been crushed and probably very angry. I think many kids cannot get past the seismic shock that comes with divorce or separation. The fact that there is not a thing they can do to change it can make them extremely frustrated and angry and they end up acting out. I think we all probably knew someone growing up whose attitude changed abruptly after a divorce. I knew several.

I don't know this kid or this situation - I'm just speaking in generalities here.

But as others have said, perhaps a different environment - and perhaps finding out that his bio-dad won't put up with his crap any more than his bio-mom did - will force him to settle down some. But it's always up to him.

Anywayz, my best wishes to you. :beer:

[Barf Bag]

Jen's thought is that he and I can't have a meaningful relationship because, in his eyes, it means replacing his dad.

I only know one split family where the kids really get along well with the step dad. the step dad and the dad are very friendly with each other (not in a gay way) and they are co-coaches of the baseball team. they both attend each others family functions, etc. both dads speak highly of each other to the kids. the kids dont see him as a threat to the father.

[jnschwie]

Seems you actually were not left with a choice.

[Tom N]

He may have a motive you won't realize til later. Like my friend whose son did this to my friends ex-wife to get her to let him play on the football team. She did, he moved back to her, but when he got out of HS he moved by the dad anyway. You just never know.

[btolle]

Nobody knows for sure what the "right" answer is in these situations.

The one thing I am sure of is that when I was 14 I was going to do what I wanted to do and there was no way my parents could stop me. That attitude caused me a lot of problems but I am the one who had to face the consequences in the long run but I am sorry for what I put my folks through.

At least you, your wife, and the girls can have some peace and quiet for a while.

One thing I would not do is get caught in a 'ping pong' type game where he moves back and forth every time he doesn't get what he wants. If he decides he wants to come back I would make it clear that the next move will be the last move and put a stop to any nonsense.

Best of luck to all of you.

[FirecrackerKTM]

my brother and I both bounced back and forth between mom and dad. I chose mom. bro never did. I don't know what if anything would have made it any better. Both parents were in a giant power struggle and we were in the middle of it. I'm not that close to my mom and I haven't spoken to my dad in 10 years.

[SatansFaith]

I feel for you. For what it's worth, I suspect that you're right about what will happen - though it may take a bit longer than you think now...

I went through a similar situation with Britt a couple of years ago. Her behavior was so completely out of hand; I can't even begin to describe it to you because, even now, I wonder what I was doing so terribly wrong as a parent even though I know, logically, that I was doing (most) everything right at that time.

She kept telling me that she wanted to live with her dad (in Michigan); she hated me; I was mean. Her father is far more lenient than I am about many things and he's far more materialistic than I am in general, which matters to a preteen girl. Anyway... I finally decided that I'd had enough and I opted to let her go. I couldn't continue that battle until she was 18. I'd done the same thing when I was her age (just under 12 at that time) and knew that the grass wouldn't be greener, but I also knew that I couldn't teach her that lesson. She had to learn it on her own.

The moral of the story? She turned 14 on Sunday. When she was here over the summer, she told me that she wants to come home. She has realized that the grass isn't greener and that, while dad's more lenient in some areas, mom's more lenient in others.

When we had this talk in August, I had just made some major changes in my life and was going through my own difficult adjustment period - I still am. We talked about it and then sat down with her dad and talked about it again. We ultimately decided that we will revisit the topic midway through the school year, at which time I will most likely propose that we revisit it again at the end of the school year and make a decision at that time.

I love her and I want her with me, but I also want what's best for her. I want to be certain that she's not making a hasty decision and/or wanting to move back for the wrong reasons. I want her to be healthy and happy and as normal as any teenager can be and I'm willing to seriously critically evaluate whether her father is better able to provide that environment than I am.

I completely understand how difficult this must be for your wife and I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you to know that there's nothing you can do to make this better for her. satan was amazingly patient and understanding when Britt left, despite the sense of relief that he must have felt - as you must - at having the conflict removed from daily life. Heck, I knew the relief as well, but a mother's heartbreak overpowers any other emotions.

Trust yourselves that you're doing the right thing. If this is what he wants, not allowing it will only make the situation worse. He has to live his own life and make his own mistakes. Believe that he will come to appreciate you more for having left, though it may take a while for the "new" to wear off.

I'm more than willing to share my phone number or a cup of coffee or a bottle of wine or a tub of ice cream or whatever if Jen ever needs to talk to someone who's been there.

[Batgirl]

:( How sad for everyone- I really hope he's not setting himself up for trouble and a lot of dissapointment.

I hope you, your wife and his siblings will get through this time without too much pain. I guess there's nothing else you can do but let him see for himself what life will be like with his Dad. Like Yota said, he probably never wanted the split to begin with. Divorce is extremely difficult for kids, even under the 'best' of circumstances.

I'm a little puzzled though- is his Dad a bad guy, or what? Otherwise, I don't understand why his daughter would change her name to yours 'without his permission', and that you would be 'flattered' by it. He is their father and you are their stepfather. Unless there is some terrible stuff happening there in Texas (in which case, I don't imagine he'd be allowed to parent your stepson when your wife has custody) I don't understand that. To encourage your stepdaughter to change her name to yours against his will is a biggie. I'm not trying to b disrespectful, I'm just confused.

My stepchildren have a mother who is frothing at the mouth with hatred for me, although I've never done one single thing to hurt or disrespect her (other than be happily married to her ex-husband and have a good relationship with her kids). I know her hatefulness is extremely difficult on the kids and that upsets me, but I can't do anything about her behavior.

Yet even with how I feel about her self-centeredness and ugliness, I would *never* forget my role as the children's stepmother- I am not their mom and I would never try to be.

Is he a deadbeat or an abuser or ?

[RebelRescuer]

I think it'll be fine. If you don't allow it then he'll never know and always wonder if he'd have been happier with his dad. So, take the mystery out and let him see what it's like. Maybe he'll like it, maybe he'll be back. But I don't see much risk in it. After all, he can't see you as the bad guy for letting him do what he wants.

(That's what Dr. Laura told a person on her radio show the other day.)

[Budman]

Okay here is my family make up. My wife has two kids, and I have two. Mine live with my ex, and her's live with us. Her oldest had a meltdown and wanted to live with her dad. We packed her up and moved her up there with the understanding that it would be for a minumum of 1 year. At about the 3 month point she hated it and wanted to come home. My wife (against all her maternal instinct) stuck to her guns and made her do the year. My oldest pulled the same stuff. We did the same thing except when she dicided she wanted to go back to her mom, my ex caved and let her come back... Completely ruined the entire learning process. My oldest is still playing my ex like a fiddle. Any time she is not happy, she threatens to come live with me. Even though I have made it clear that this is not an option.

Here are the things I would reccomend

Don't force him to stay with you if he THINKS he wants to live with his dad
When he goes to live with dad, put a minimum timeframe on it and STICK WITH IT!!!
Try to help your wife understand that she does not have to try to make up for anything in his life. This will end up hurting all involved in the long run. (this goes for you too).
Always keep comms open between him and your house, and her ex and your house.
Don't let him play both sides against each other
Remember that they are smarter than we give them credit for.

[Tiffany]

I'm a little puzzled though- is his Dad a bad guy, or what? Otherwise, I don't understand why his daughter would change her name to yours 'without his permission', and that you would be 'flattered' by it. He is their father and you are their stepfather. Unless there is some terrible stuff happening there in Texas (in which case, I don't imagine he'd be allowed to parent your stepson when your wife has custody) I don't understand that. To encourage your stepdaughter to change her name to yours against his will is a biggie. I'm not trying to b disrespectful, I'm just confused.

I didn't see anything that indicated that Chester encouraged her to do anything. He said she was waiting until she did not need his permission to change her name, not that he was forcing her to. That would be her choice.

I know many stepchildren that relate much better with their step parent than their real parent. And I know several who changed their name to their step dads last name, because that is who they felt was their father in more than just a name. And each case, the step father was extremely flattered by it.

[ColoradoSkier]

Thanks for everything all. Answers to some specific thoughts or questions that were raised:

- We let him participate in most anything he wants to do. In fact, we encourage him to get involved, and then he decides he doesn't want to do something (like play football). He was pretty excited about trying out for the basketball team.

- His parents split when he was 3.

- His interests tend to fall more in line with those of his dad anyway than what we do. Snowboarding and water skiing are fun to him I think, but he would prefer to be hunting and fishing, which we don't really do.

- His dad is interesting in that he often calls to talk to Garrett and Megan is an afterthought. Girls are generally treated that way in his family for some odd reason. I think the real clincher was when it was Megan's birthday, he called our house and asked to speak to Garrett. He routinely doesn't call on holidays, birthdays, or even "out of the blue" to see how they are doing. Add to that the $70k+ he owes in back child support, and the fact that he quits any job he gets when the garnishments start, and he is less than an ideal parent in our eyes.

- Things would likely be different if Garrett got to see his dad more often (ie. we lived closer or vice versa). We put the onus on him to buy plane tickets for the kids to come down there to visit. He has done this exactly once. Every other time they have gone down there, we have paid for it. Wouldn't have an issue with that, except for the outstanding balance mentioned above.

- 4 years ago when he was up here visiting, he took the kids on a drive through RMNP. All well and good until they told us later about the "bottle in the brown paper bag" he kept drinking out of. He was a pretty major drunk when Jen was married to him, and we have serious concerns that this is still the case.

- We see him as a less than ideal role model. Dropped out of high school (I know, school isn't for everyone, but Garrett is easily one of the brightest up there, and we don't want him to lose motivation for that), had a good shop as a machinist with Anheuser Busch, quit that, and subsequently has quit every other job since to get out of child support (told Jen this on the phone about 2 years ago). He now works under the table for his parents who "own" a machine shop. Before you ask about the legal system, yes, we are in it, and in Texas, it is VERY, VERY slow, especially if you are not collecting benefits from the state. If Jen was on welfare down there, that part of the picture would be way different.

- We are definitely putting timeframes around this (from a minimum standpoint at least), are making plans for the holiday return visits, and reminding him that if/ when he does come back, the same rules will still apply.

Jen was dealing with it better yesterday. I think she is realizing that it is going to be best for all at the moment, and that he is his own person and has to learn things his way.

He has made it clear that his dad will kick his arse if he gets out of line, a fear that has never been present here. I think he needs that kind of structure (within reason), and have been telling Jen this for years. I guess now we'll see.

[DADA_JEEP]

never been in the situation or anytihing similar, but do you think that he would work out a "return contract" with you? that way i does not do the bounce around thing and he understand the rules when he does eventually return?

[ColoradoSkier]

We are essentially doing that, as well as reminding him that our rules are in effect when he comes home to visit at Xmas.

[Budman]

I forgot to mention that with My wife's oldest, Letting her spend a year living with her dad was a wonderful thing for her, and her relationship with my wife improved 100 fold. She now appreciates non material things much more, and has a lot more respect for the way we treat her.

[sungecko420]

So I'm confused here. When did it become a 14 year olds decision on how they want to live their life? If he didn't have his dad to go to and the idea was for him to move in with a friend or move out of your house someway/somehow would you still condone this? This is a 14 year old boy. He doesn't know what he wants. His parents are his only clue on to how life is. And life just isn't fair. You don't always get what you want. And running away from problems doesn't solve anything. Whatever the problems are would be better worked out. And if he doesn't like it, tough. That's life. He doesn't work, doesn't pay bills, doesn't drive, basically doesn't support himself so why does he have any right to choose what he wants and how he wants to live his life. That is a privilege you gain when you turn 18 and become an adult. The right to choose your own path in life. Not at 14. Not at 12. Not at 16. A more reasonable option for him would be something that is agreeable to you and will do him well. IF he doesn't want to stay with you in your house and with his family that has treated him well and fair then it's another option. Another option that YOU as a parent chooses. Not him as a child chooses. I am not a parent and will never be so I can't necessarily say that one way is right over another. But I (like everyone else) thinks I was a burden on my parents and was a horrible teenager. Same situation. Broken family, step parents, different states, yada yada yada, but my mom and stepdad never let me choose what was best for me. Oh how many times I wanted to bail and go live with my dad. Well that wasn't an option because they were my parents and it was their job to decide for me what was best. Other options were a school for discipline, a prep school and the job corps. I didn't go to any of them because they weren't my decision. I wanted what I wanted. And if I couldn't have that then I didn't want anything of the other things either. So what happened? I stuck it out. They made me. They gave me the options, not the other way around. If it weren't for that discipline and structure I would have probably moved, hated it and life gone to shit. But there is a lot to be said for structure. Kids don't want it. Kids don't think they need it. So let a child make a decision for themselves and most likely the rest of their life will be farked up and they will do things in an undisciplined lifestyle that will affect the rest of their life. This is also assuming that your household is a caring and loving household. Which it sounds like it is. He just doesn't understand yet how important that is in life and when it comes to the thick and thin that your family is all you really have to rely on. And when they do things to show you they love you and care about you take that with you through your life. If they just let you go at will, then when the time comes and he is a father and perhaps facing the same situation then it will be ok to just let his child go too. Hell that's what his parents did, so it must be right. If things get tough, let it go and run away from it.

[Budman]

So I'm confused here. When did it become a 14 year olds decision on how they want to live their life? If he didn't have his dad to go to and the idea was for him to move in with a friend or move out of your house someway/somehow would you still condone this? This is a 14 year old boy. He doesn't know what he wants. His parents are his only clue on to how life is. And life just isn't fair. You don't always get what you want. And running away from problems doesn't solve anything. Whatever the problems are would be better worked out. And if he doesn't like it, tough. That's life. He doesn't work, doesn't pay bills, doesn't drive, basically doesn't support himself so why does he have any right to choose what he wants and how he wants to live his life. That is a privilege you gain when you turn 18 and become an adult. The right to choose your own path in life. Not at 14. Not at 12. Not at 16. A more reasonable option for him would be something that is agreeable to you and will do him well. IF he doesn't want to stay with you in your house and with his family that has treated him well and fair then it's another option. Another option that YOU as a parent chooses. Not him as a child chooses. I am not a parent and will never be so I can't necessarily say that one way is right over another. But I (like everyone else) thinks I was a burden on my parents and was a horrible teenager. Same situation. Broken family, step parents, different states, yada yada yada, but my mom and stepdad never let me choose what was best for me. Oh how many times I wanted to bail and go live with my dad. Well that wasn't an option because they were my parents and it was their job to decide for me what was best. Other options were a school for discipline, a prep school and the job corps. I didn't go to any of them because they weren't my decision. I wanted what I wanted. And if I couldn't have that then I didn't want anything of the other things either. So what happened? I stuck it out. They made me. They gave me the options, not the other way around. If it weren't for that discipline and structure I would have probably moved, hated it and life gone to shit. But there is a lot to be said for structure. Kids don't want it. Kids don't think they need it. So let a child make a decision for themselves and most likely the rest of their life will be farked up and they will do things in an undisciplined lifestyle that will affect the rest of their life. This is also assuming that your household is a caring and loving household. Which it sounds like it is. He just doesn't understand yet how important that is in life and when it comes to the thick and thin that your family is all you really have to rely on. And when they do things to show you they love you and care about you take that with you through your life. If they just let you go at will, then when the time comes and he is a father and perhaps facing the same situation then it will be ok to just let his child go too. Hell that's what his parents did, so it must be right. If things get tough, let it go and run away from it.

I probalby would have agreed with you whole haeatedly until I became an adult in a blended family. What I and COSkier, and others are/have done is allow the young adult make a decision, and follow through and pay the consequences. My wife's oldest (Jennifer) came unglued when my wife and I got serious. She was a devil child and treated her mom terribly. One day in a fit of rage she said "I hate you, I am going to go live with my dad."

Now there are two ways to go here.

1. Tell her no, and force her to stay where she is, and deal with the fact that you are giving her more ammo to hate you

2. Call her bluff and send her with stipulations and rules. My wife chose #2. It was a great decision because it did two things. I proved to her that the grass is not always greener, and it proved to her dad that having a teenaged girl in the house is not easy.

He pays his CS only because they take it out of his check, and it has not been updated in 12 years. When she was living with him, he would not buy her shampoo or deoderant because "that is what I am paying your mom child support for. She should provide that.

I almost layed into you, but you do speak from some experience as you come from a broken home, however, it seems like your mom and dad worked well together to keep you in line. Not against each other. I find that the best way to deal with a parent that uses children as tools, and kids who use a broken home as a tool is to call thier bluff, and put thier lives squarly on thier own shoulders. Within reason that is... If one of my girls wanted to move in with a friend, ro an aunt or something equally as silly, they would be SOL. But to go live with thier blood parent because they think life here sucks is finie with me. Within the rules...

[forum]

I'll keep it short since I'm mostly repeating what has already been said. But I grew up with my Mother, and at about 13 I decided that I hated her and wanted to go live with my Dad. Much the same situation you are proposing, I ended up living there for 1 year, and when I wanted to move back I was told that it was my last chance. I think it was a good experience for me overall, and definately made me realize that things aren't always greener.

-Brian

[SatansFaith]

I forgot to mention that with My wife's oldest, Letting her spend a year living with her dad was a wonderful thing for her, and her relationship with my wife improved 100 fold. She now appreciates non material things much more, and has a lot more respect for the way we treat her.
This has been my experience with Brittany as well. From my standpoint, I can't tell you how nice it is to have a relationship with my daughter again.

sungecko, it's so easy to say how you would raise kids when you don't have them. When you do have them, you often find that what you once said or thought no longer makes sense, or doesn't apply to your particular situation, or whatever.

[FirecrackerKTM]

So I'm confused here. When did it become a 14 year olds decision on how they want to live their life? If he didn't have his dad to go to and the idea was for him to move in with a friend or move out of your house someway/somehow would you still condone this? This is a 14 year old boy. He doesn't know what he wants. His parents are his only clue on to how life is. And life just isn't fair. You don't always get what you want. And running away from problems doesn't solve anything. Whatever the problems are would be better worked out. And if he doesn't like it, tough. That's life. He doesn't work, doesn't pay bills, doesn't drive, basically doesn't support himself so why does he have any right to choose what he wants and how he wants to live his life. That is a privilege you gain when you turn 18 and become an adult. The right to choose your own path in life. Not at 14. Not at 12. Not at 16. A more reasonable option for him would be something that is agreeable to you and will do him well. IF he doesn't want to stay with you in your house and with his family that has treated him well and fair then it's another option. Another option that YOU as a parent chooses. Not him as a child chooses. I am not a parent and will never be so I can't necessarily say that one way is right over another. But I (like everyone else) thinks I was a burden on my parents and was a horrible teenager. Same situation. Broken family, step parents, different states, yada yada yada, but my mom and stepdad never let me choose what was best for me. Oh how many times I wanted to bail and go live with my dad. Well that wasn't an option because they were my parents and it was their job to decide for me what was best. Other options were a school for discipline, a prep school and the job corps. I didn't go to any of them because they weren't my decision. I wanted what I wanted. And if I couldn't have that then I didn't want anything of the other things either. So what happened? I stuck it out. They made me. They gave me the options, not the other way around. If it weren't for that discipline and structure I would have probably moved, hated it and life gone to shit. But there is a lot to be said for structure. Kids don't want it. Kids don't think they need it. So let a child make a decision for themselves and most likely the rest of their life will be farked up and they will do things in an undisciplined lifestyle that will affect the rest of their life. This is also assuming that your household is a caring and loving household. Which it sounds like it is. He just doesn't understand yet how important that is in life and when it comes to the thick and thin that your family is all you really have to rely on. And when they do things to show you they love you and care about you take that with you through your life. If they just let you go at will, then when the time comes and he is a father and perhaps facing the same situation then it will be ok to just let his child go too. Hell that's what his parents did, so it must be right. If things get tough, let it go and run away from it.
I agree with some of what you say, but I was that kid at 14, and I don't think that being treated as an infant did much for my state of mind. Yeah, I realize that a 14 year old hasn't had much life experiences yet, but on the other hand why not let them choose--and deal with the consequences of those choices? Teens aren't stupid or helpless, and I think that they will wise up a LOT faster when given choices and allowed to see what happens.

I also disagree that a child of a divorced home is going to "just let it go because that's what his parents did." Even at 12 when it started, I remember being fully aware of everything except my dad's alcoholism (he didn't drink at home). I saw that my parents were fighting, and it made everyone's life miserable, and the quality of life improved vastly after the divorce. Plus, as an adult, my fiance and I (both from divorced homes) value our relationship even more highly after watching what our parents went through.

The parent-as-dictator approach does not work with all kids and in a situation like this it may only turn it even more sour.

[ColoradoSkier]

I am thinking a number of things right now, but Budman and Firecracker addressed it better than I would at the moment.

I lived in a "parent-is-dictator" house, and I don't necessarily think that level of structure was good for me, and it certainly would not be good for anyone in this specific situation.

I am glad that things worked out for you Sungecko, but your road and Garrett's are two different ones, and as parent's with HIS best interests at heart (which may be contrary to ours), we realize that this is something he has to do. I expect him wanting to be back in 6-12 months. If not, then clearly it was the right move for him. If so, I think he will appreciate the life he has quite a bit more. One thing that will not happen is him bouncing like a yo-yo back and forth. I think that would be the most destructive scenario, and would set him up for lots of doom in the future. But letting him make a decision that impacts his own life so much has a lot more upside than down, at least in my opinion.

[sungecko420]

I don't want anybody all worked up here, but the majority of the people would do what you are doing. And I am not saying that is right or wrong. I am just throwing out some alternatives. Maybe they have been discussed, maybe they haven't. Maybe you and your wife have thought of them, maybe you haven't. But there are always more than two solutions to life problems. Not just black and white. Not just stay here or move in with dad. There are plenty of other solutions. Where I see fault in the argument of letting him make his own decisions and facing the consequences is that the consequences must be faced. And are you willing to do that. If he moves, and doesn't like it and wants to move back here with you and your wife and you let him then what has he learned? Nothing. You have bailed his ass out of a bad decision. He may have learned that the grass isn't greener on the other side, but he hasn't been forced to face the situation and it's consequences. He has been bailed out. If he moves, it should be a permanent move if you are going to treat him like an adult and let him make adult decisions. If this is just some little test or game "to see what happens" then he won't learn anything. He will understand that he can make a bad decision and somebody ELSE will make it better. Like I said, I am not trying to stir things up here but there are too many holes in any argument here. Treat him as an adult, let him make an adult decision and let HIM face the adult consequences. Otherwise, treat him as a boy(which is what he is) and be the parent and make him realize that this is life. It's not some little game where you always get what you want and you win. Like I said, things could work out and things couldn't but there are always more than two solutions to a life problem. And until all of them have been explored and/or discussed I wouldn't just jump into the first alternative. Read it, hate me but just think about it. What is TRULY best for this boy at this age?

[Budman]

sungecko, it's so easy to say how you would raise kids when you don't have them. When you do have them, you often find that what you once said or thought no longer makes sense, or doesn't apply to your particular situation, or whatever.

God if that is not the truth then I don't know what is.

I lived in a "parent-is-dictator" house, and I don't necessarily think that level of structure was good for me, and it certainly would not be good for anyone in this specific situation.

One thing that will not happen is him bouncing like a yo-yo back and forth. I think that would be the most destructive scenario, and would set him up for lots of doom in the future. But letting him make a decision that impacts his own life so much has a lot more upside than down, at least in my opinion.

I grew up in that house as well, but the structure was good for me. I tried to replicate it with my son, and almost ruined him. If he does not have structure, the goes wild.

I think if you guys execute this properly, you will look back on it later and be really glad you did it this way. I know we have been. Good luck to you and your wife, this is never easy on anyone, but it is obvious you guys care, and that is all you can do....

[Batgirl]

4 years ago when he was up here visiting, he took the kids on a drive through RMNP. All well and good until they told us later about the "bottle in the brown paper bag" he kept drinking out of. He was a pretty major drunk when Jen was married to him, and we have serious concerns that this is still the case.

.
:eek: I'm REALLY confused.

Besides his character flaws and being a crappy, absentee parent, this sounds like a very unsafe environment for Garrett, or any child to be in.

[Budman]

I just have one more comment...

Ain't Blended Families GREAT!?!?!?!!!

[ColoradoSkier]

:eek: I'm REALLY confused.

Besides his character flaws and being a crappy, absentee parent, this sounds like a very unsafe environment for Garrett, or any child to be in.

In the interim he has remarried, and we are hopeful that his srinking has been reduced (blind hope really). Jennifer has been gauging this over the phone over the past few weeks and he hasn't been drunk on the phone yet, which is a radical departure from the norm. Out of everything, this does have us the most concerned, but we have to have some faith here. I realize this part of things doesn't look good (and that is an understatement), but there isn't much we can do on that part.

[Budman]

The other little tidbit that has not been discussed here it the fact that at 14, he can legally choose which parent to live with, as long as they are both suitable parents.

[ColoradoSkier]

I just have one more comment...

Ain't Blended Families GREAT!?!?!?!!!

I'll bet it would have been way worse if I had come into this with kids of my own too.

[Barf Bag]

If he moves, and doesn't like it and wants to move back here with you and your wife and you let him then what has he learned? Nothing. You have bailed his ass out of a bad decision. He may have learned that the grass isn't greener on the other side, but he hasn't been forced to face the situation and it's consequences.

that in itself is a huge lesson. along with that lesson, the boy may learn that his Mom and stepDad know more than he does, actually have his best interests in mind, etc.

If he goes and realizes after one week that living with a drunk that wont pay child support is hell, why should he stay? What good could come of him facing the adult consequences of adult decisions? none

If a kid visiting the zoo decided to jump into the lion's den and got the sh1t scared out of him when the lion roared, should he be forced to stay in there for the remainder of the day to get eaten? silly

[Budman]

I'll bet it would have been way worse if I had come into this with kids of my own too.

You can almost triple the trouble. Kids all hate each other. Her kids hate you, your kids hate her. It is amazing...

[Budman]

that in itself is a huge lesson. along with that lesson, the boy may learn that his Mom and stepDad know more than he does, actually have his best interests in mind, etc.

If he goes and realizes after one week that living with a drunk that wont pay child support is hell, why should he stay? What good could come of him facing the adult consequences of adult decisions? none

If a kid visiting the zoo decided to jump into the lion's den and got the sh1t scared out of him when the lion roared, should he be forced to stay in there for the remainder of the day to get eaten? silly

I can tell you based on my two experiences... one had to stay the year and finish school, and one was allowed to bail out as soon as life got unconfortable... the first actually learned the right lesson, and the second learned how to play her mom, and hold things over her head... Ground rules are important, and must be held firm (barring huge issues).

[Barf Bag]

I'll bet it would have been way worse if I had come into this with kids of my own too.

nahhh, get a maid named Alice and some astro turf next to the driveway and you would be good to go

[Yota]

nahhh, get a maid named Alice and some astro turf next to the driveway and you would be good to go

Maybe start a family band?

[lilgreenjeepyj]

Not much to add other than good luck and I wish all the family the best.

[Comfortably Numb]

I hope everything works out for the best. I didn't come from a broken home, but the one kid I did know who went to stay with his dad didn't like it. He moved out on his own ASAP, and is now married to the most controlling girl I ever knew. No one even wants to have anything to do with them now.

I'm betting that the boy will want to come home pretty soon, you need to stick to whatever rules you've already set up when that happens.

Someone seemed to be complaining that the non custodial father paid through the state. He has no choice, that is how all states and many countries have done it for years now. He could only get out of it by getting paid in a way that is not reported. It's free money to her. If she thinks he should pay more she has to justify it in court, but it needs to be understood how it affects him too. A good attorney can explain all of it. In court everyone's tax returns, among other things, will become public record and it's possible the custodial mother could have to pay money to the non custodial father.

[SatansFaith]

It's free money to her.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but... Wow. Did you really just say that?

As a woman who has been both a single mom/custodial parent and a non-custodial parent who pays child support, let me be the first to tell you that it's not really "free money." A child should be a joint blessing, a joint responsibility, and a joint "burden" if it's going to be looked at that way. The "free money" that I received as a single mother helped to feed my daughter; it helped to make sure that my daughter had clothing; it helped to make sure that my daughter had school supplies; it helped to make sure that my daughter was able to go skating with her friends once in a while, or buy a birthday gift for a friend who had invited Britt to a party. It wasn't "free money" to me at all. That insinuates that I was able to stick that money in the bank and use it for whatever I liked. It was her father contributing to a SMALL portion of his daughter's daily life. As the parent who is paying support at this time, I can tell you that I've never thought of the money that he receives from me every month as "free money" for him either.

"Free money" = a bunch of "I shouldn't have to support my child" BS.

[FirecrackerKTM]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but... Wow. Did you really just say that?

As a woman who has been both a single mom/custodial parent and a non-custodial parent who pays child support, let me be the first to tell you that it's not really "free money." A child should be a joint blessing, a joint responsibility, and a joint "burden" if it's going to be looked at that way. The "free money" that I received as a single mother helped to feed my daughter; it helped to make sure that my daughter had clothing; it helped to make sure that my daughter had school supplies; it helped to make sure that my daughter was able to go skating with her friends once in a while, or buy a birthday gift for a friend who had invited Britt to a party. It wasn't "free money" to me at all. That insinuates that I was able to stick that money in the bank and use it for whatever I liked. It was her father contributing to a SMALL portion of his daughter's daily life. As the parent who is paying support at this time, I can tell you that I've never thought of the money that he receives from me every month as "free money" for him either.

"Free money" = a bunch of "I shouldn't have to support my child" BS.
True for YOU, and for a handful of other single parents, but how often does the custodial parent really spend all of the child support money on the child?

[Budman]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but... Wow. Did you really just say that?

As a woman who has been both a single mom/custodial parent and a non-custodial parent who pays child support, let me be the first to tell you that it's not really "free money." A child should be a joint blessing, a joint responsibility, and a joint "burden" if it's going to be looked at that way. The "free money" that I received as a single mother helped to feed my daughter; it helped to make sure that my daughter had clothing; it helped to make sure that my daughter had school supplies; it helped to make sure that my daughter was able to go skating with her friends once in a while, or buy a birthday gift for a friend who had invited Britt to a party. It wasn't "free money" to me at all. That insinuates that I was able to stick that money in the bank and use it for whatever I liked. It was her father contributing to a SMALL portion of his daughter's daily life. As the parent who is paying support at this time, I can tell you that I've never thought of the money that he receives from me every month as "free money" for him either.

"Free money" = a bunch of "I shouldn't have to support my child" BS.

Well said

True for YOU, and for a handful of other single parents, but how often does the custodial parent really spend all of the child support money on the child?

Sharla;

It does not matter where that money "goes" as long as the child is taken care of. I am on both sides of this and it is a silly argument.

Well she spent her child support money on her car payment. Well she spent other money on rent and grocery's, and braces, and... and... and...

See both sides of this and it is a crock... As long as the child gets taken care of.


While we are at it, dead beat parents should be Pursued and forced to take care of thier obligations. You wanna jump from job to job, fine, but we are taking every asset that you have in exchange for back CS. That nice truck you drive, those motorcycels etc. All going to be sold and put toward your CS. Divorce papers where there are children involved should be reviewed AUTOMATICALLY evey 2 years, and dollar figures adjusted. It should not cost a fortune to get this stuff updated. My wife has not had hers updated in 10 years because her EX always makes it as expensive as possible because he has the money to make it so, and my wife does not.


Okay Rant off. Sorry Sharla.

[Tiffany]

True for YOU, and for a handful of other single parents, but how often does the custodial parent really spend all of the child support money on the child?
Probably way more than you think.

[ColoradoSkier]

In our case, what money we saw from him never came close to half of the actual expenses of raising two kids. Jen had it rough as a single parent, and once the boy started becoming a teenager, and eating like one, it would have been damn near impossible to do alone. I'd say most people that see child support money use it for that.

Alimony, now that's a whole different story, and a crock of crap in most cases.

[Suki]

True for YOU, and for a handful of other single parents, but how often does the custodial parent really spend all of the child support money on the child?

Probably way more than you think.

ex-single parent speaking:

Not every cent of whatever money i had collected in the past went to my son. Each month, i have put away some into a savings account that i have for my son, when i was getting child support i would but 25-50% each month into that account. the rest of the money (when he was in child care) was spent on child care, clothes/shoes, sports activites, and towards bills/groceries.

Child support is money that is supposed to help you support your child(ren), not to buy them games, fancy designer clothes, or candy. IF he wants those things, he can work for them. Sorry, but I think kids these days are way too spoiled as it is, if he earns it, he can have it.

I understand what you're asking, I have seen many women and men that spend the child support money on their adult toys, cars, expensive clothing, etc. But i would have to say that the majority of single parents use that money for their child, and not for themselves.

I've pretty much never relied on that child support, i've managed my own money and finances so that i know what I can afford and where my paychecks go. If and when that money does come in, it's put away into his savings account and the rest i keep in my savings account as a fall back.

As far as sending Garrett to live with his dad, I say let him go. I did the exact same thing with my son last summer (we went through a hellish time with him and figured that since he said he hated us and that we were horrible parents then let him go and get a taste of the luxurious life in Hawaii with his bach bum father) and he hated it and swore to never want to go back there to live again. 2.5 months was enough to set him straight and realize he has a much better life here than taking care of his step brothers so his worthless father can go out drinking and gambling and his step mother stays at home cursing him (his dad). Sometimes kids just think that life is better with the other parent until they get a nice dose of reality.

[FirecrackerKTM]

Probably way more than you think.

Probably, but unfortunately it's still not the norm. I remember being embarrassed all to hell as a teen when my mom bitched out a cashier at the store when the woman bragged about being able to afford a new sports car with her child support check. She was right ... but I was still mortified.

Suki, that type of stuff is exactly what it is for. But I'm talking about some of my former acquaintances who were single moms and used it to go shopping and get their nails done. That always made me mad, especially when I remember how hard MY mom worked, because she only got maybe $250/month from my dad. That was for 2 kids, and in reality he cost her more than that in lawyer fees because he had her back in court twice a year trying to get the parenting plan changed.

[Suki]

I understood what you were getting at, like i said in my first post, I've encountered both men and women that are like that, and quite honestly i feel the same way about those that INSTEAD of PAYING their childsupport, they spend that money on themselves when they should be sending it to the custodial parent. My sons father is just that way, i have gone YEARS without CS and years of battling it out through the courts, only to find out that while he can't pay his child support, he sure as hell can buy his designer clothes for him and his entire family and drive expensive SUV's with bling bling rims and gaming consols inside them.

Like i said, i've never depended or relied on that monthly check, but i sure as hell have been in situations where that extra money could have been put to good use.

I believe in what goes around comes around, he's gonna get his in one form or another, not for not paying child support but for being a worthless piece of shit sperm donor that can't even call and ask how his son is doing.

[Tiffany]

Probably, but unfortunately it's still not the norm.


I have to disagree. Too tired to even begin to look at the number of people who have support orders in this country, but I would bet my next paycheck that the majority of them use their child support money to take care of their kids/households. Be it paying the bills, buying food, what have you.

[FirecrackerKTM]

I understood what you were getting at, like i said in my first post, I've encountered both men and women that are like that, and quite honestly i feel the same way about those that INSTEAD of PAYING their childsupport, they spend that money on themselves when they should be sending it to the custodial parent. My sons father is just that way, i have gone YEARS without CS and years of battling it out through the courts, only to find out that while he can't pay his child support, he sure as hell can buy his designer clothes for him and his entire family and drive expensive SUV's with bling bling rims and gaming consols inside them.

Like i said, i've never depended or relied on that monthly check, but i sure as hell have been in situations where that extra money could have been put to good use.

I believe in what goes around comes around, he's gonna get his in one form or another, not for not paying child support but for being a worthless piece of shit sperm donor that can't even call and ask how his son is doing.
I read a stat somewhere (yeah, I know, but...) that said divorced fathers were more likely to default on their child support than their car payment if money got tight. Sad. :(

I am glad that there's dads who don't ... friend of mine moved back into his mom's house for a while b/c his child support was more than his house payment, but at least he was paying that.
I have to disagree. Too tired to even begin to look at the number of people who have support orders in this country, but I would bet my next paycheck that the majority of them use their child support money to take care of their kids/households. Be it paying the bills, buying food, what have you.
I'd love to be wrong ... just not what I saw, but that was in another area and a few years ago. I guess I have a tendency to be cynical.

[Tiffany]

Thats like saying the 5 idiots you saw off trail and destroying the land is representative of all wheelers. You say a few individuals who were asshats about how they used their CS. What about those of use here who are saying that we use our CS to support our kids?

Probably more of use here saying/doing that than you saw not doing that. Just saying...