OK, so now i'm interested in DSLR cameras now.

[Hardcor4x4]

Damnit you people!!! :rant:.............:D

I was talking to a couple guys last night that I have done a lot of online gaming with my online clan in the past several years. They've both gotten into photography and I was talking to them about getting a new camera myself but just not ready to get a true DSLR camera yet.
They have Olympus Evolt 500 and 510 cameras with the 2 lense kit and have only been shooting about a year or less. They showed me their online photo album and their taking some photos that I would say are very professional looking. I was thoroughly impressed at the sharpness and quality of the images. So I start searching prices on the Olypmus E510 and finding mid $800 range for the 2 lense kit. I can even find camera kit deals on Ebay for around and just over $900 and includes lots of extras like bag, extra memory cards, tripod, filters and other stuff.
I know a couple of you guys have this camera or the E500 and E410. I think with talking to these 2 guys last night they've talked me into the Olympus E510 2 lense kit and said the 300mm zoom lense will be coming out in the next month or so. The 2 lense kit comes with 14-42mm lense and a 40-150mm lense so right off the bat it has 2 good lenses for everyday shooting. I've read the Dpreview.com page and it gets very high reccomendations. What do you guys think? A good DSLR camera for someone getting more interested in this hobby?

By the way, here is Dennis' photo album. He shoots with a E510 and has only been shooting for 5-4 months. Most all these shots are around the Portland Oregan area.
http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x73/lolbrick/

Here is Tony's album. He lives in California. He shoots with a E500 and even does 3D stereoview shots with it if you know how to view them. Google earth has even picked up several of his photos and put them in Google Earth. They appear as a http://www.panoramio.com/img/icono-ge.v1.gif icon when the Geographic Web box is checked in Google Earth.
http://www.panoramio.com/user/308300
He has another online album in Flickr but can't find it.

[Tiffany]

You can buy the E500 with two lenses at Wolf for $599 right now.

It's a great camera, lens selection will be limited, but I enjoyed using my dads.

Personally I would avoid the eBay combos as outside the camera the rest of it is junk. You want to us name brand memory, that is one thing I won't skimp on...even my messing around images are too important to me to trust some off brand memory card to not take a dump.

I would grab the E500, you wont miss those 2 megapixels of the E510 and you will have saved enough money to buy good memory and get started.

[ColoradoSkier]

Yeah, what she said.

Memory is one area you don't want to skimp. And getting an Ultra II or Ultra III (higher write speeds) will make even more difference.

One thing about any camera - don't be afraid to use a tripod. Your pictures will come out way better than by hand. Not always practical, but certainly encouraged. I have 2 of them. One is a small, compact "desktop" type (Ultra Pod II) and the other is a traditional expanding leg one (with a bubble level on it). These help my shots a great deal.

[Hardcor4x4]

Couple questions on Olympus Evolts vs. Canon XT & XTI

Shutter control. Olympus has bulb control on the shutter up to 8 minutes with limiter. 8 minutes will probably be more then enough if I use it with my telescope viewing planets but what is limiter? I thought Bulb control gave you full control to open the shutter till you shut it. But 8 minutes isn't enough time to do one of those shots where you point it at the north star, open the shutter, walk away for an hour or so to capture start movement. I used to do this many years ago camping in the mountains with my parents using my moms camera.

Canon I can't even find in the specs for XT and XTI models any bulb control. it just says 1/4000 - 30s. 30 seconds is hardly enough time to get any color exposure through a high powered telescope. does it even have bulb control? If so how long?


Olympus has 2.0 crop control but can't find it for the Canons

Olympus E510 has IS but don't see it listed for the XT or XTI's

What are the major differences between the 2 that users prefer to have?

I started looking at the difference between the Olympus E510 and the Canon XTI and seems the Olympus has more features?

[Tiffany]

Olympus will have a very slim lens selection at a much higher price. If you think you will want to buy additional lenses, go for Canon or Nikon.

Honestly, its a lot of hand held personal preference. Go to Wolf's or Mike's and play with the display models. If it doesnt feel right in your hands then its not right.

[ColoradoSkier]

Canon has bulb control. My brother did a 22 minute exposure (http://www.knick-knack.com/index.html/post/13592) the other night in Moab with his XT.

[Hardcor4x4]

Hey Chester, can you ask your brother if the XT has infinate bulb control. meaning can he hold the shutter open for as long as HE wants like an hour or so or how ever long the battery can hold out unless you can hook them up to DC plug. I'm more interested in the XTI if I were to go Canon. I would imagine if the XT has infinate bulb control then XTI would also.

Would be great if it did then with that camera I could hooj it up to me reflector telescope and get some shots of planets and nebulas. When you photograph planets and nebulas you have to hold the shutter open for several minutes to capture the color that isn't visible to the naked eye. If that Olympus is limited to 8 minutes for some shots through a telescope that may not be long enough. Plus I would be able to do shots like your brother did with that 22 minute exposure.

Tiff's right, I need to go to Wolfs and look at them and ask the people there about whether the Olympus & Canons have these features. Just wondering if those on here that have these cameras can chime in about the features.

[ColoradoSkier]

I don't talk to my brother - ever (seriously, it has been like 4 or 5 years now). You can contact him from his website though and he will likely get back to you fairly quick, unless you tell him you know me.

[Jeffro600]

Im pretty sure the XT has a bulb mode but i think you need to use the remote shutter release to use it.

[lilgreenjeepyj]

My XT has bulb mode, and as far as I know it last as long as I want it too. I think my max so far was 20+ minutes.

I use my wireless remote to trigger it in bulb mode. Works like a champ.

[Hardcor4x4]

My XT has bulb mode, and as far as I know it last as long as I want it too. I think my max so far was 20+ minutes.

I use my wireless remote to trigger it in bulb mode. Works like a champ.

Yeah I've found that most all the dslr cameras you have to have the remote to use bulb mode. I've been reading DPreports.com forums and the Olympus Evolt series has a max 8 minutes for bulb mode. I have yet to read a limit on the Canon XT or XTI bulb function. i've seen some say they've had it open for 30 minutes. Looks like I may be looking at the Canon XTI then. I've been looking at what others have been shooting with their XTI and XT canons using 20-30 and longer exposures and it's absolutly awsome. So I may purchase the XTI with 1 lense and then find my own zoom lense cause some are saying the 75-300 canon lense isn't the greatest and is pretty cheap.Theres better Canon telephoto lenses for a little more $$ and is worth it for the better glass.

[Tiffany]

I am loving my Sigma 70-300...crystal clear and online comparison against the Canon lens has it winning hands down.

[Hardcor4x4]

I am loving my Sigma 70-300...crystal clear and online comparison against the Canon lens has it winning hands down.
This guy?
http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-70-300mm-4-5-6-Telephoto-Cameras/dp/B000ALLMI8/ref=sr_1_1/102-9202065-7885735?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1192161712&sr=1-1

[lilgreenjeepyj]

Im digging my 70-300 from Tamron Di...

[Tiffany]

This guy?
http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-70-300mm-4-5-6-Telephoto-Cameras/dp/B000ALLMI8/ref=sr_1_1/102-9202065-7885735?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1192161712&sr=1-1
Yes sir, but I sure as heck didnt pay $200 for it :D

I have to say this may be the best bargain purchase I have had all YEAR!!!

Amazon list it at $192, I didn't pay $92 :D

Let me know if you get your XTi...will let ya use the lens for a weekend to test it out if ya want.

[Rhino95]

I have the E510. But I haven't had it long enough to figure out all the features. One thing I really wanted was IS in the body. When buying lenses you won't have to get lenses with IS because the camera already has it. Granted the lens selection isn't as great as Nikon/Canon, but if that doesn't bother you (as it doesn't really bother me) then I'd say get the 510. 10 megapixels, live view LCD, IS. If/When you get a sweet shot of a planet, with the 10 mps you can enlarge the photo a lot more than you can with an 8 and you can crop more freely. I know thats another thing I REALLY wanted was the ability to enlarge a photo and keep clearity. And if I had to forfeit lens selection (I'm not planning on getting another lens anytime soon anyways) I thought it was well worth the trade off.

All the photos I've taken in this shutterbug forum and the pictures I took at the XRRA Finals in the trip reports were taken with my e510.

[Jeffro600]

If/When you get a sweet shot of a planet, with the 10 mps you can enlarge the photo a lot more than you can with an 8 and you can crop more freely. I know thats another thing I REALLY wanted was the ability to enlarge a photo and keep clearity.


Id hardly call it "a lot"...the difference between 8 and 10 megapixels is really not much and shouldnt be a factor IMO when choosing a camera.

Now if it was a 6MP to 10MP comparison or an 8 to 12, theres a definite advantage there...but going from 8 to 10, your gaining very little. With 8 to 10, your going to have a very slight bit of room to work with on cropping, but this difference is negligible and can 99.8% of the time be compensated for with technique.

I, along with several other users and camera reviewers are not totally sold on the sensor IS system. It works, but not to the extent that in lens systems do. I think "live view" will catch on as they develop it better in the DSLR platform...not exactly sure why, but it seems like the "hip" thing to do nowdays. Its more laggy than current non SLR cameras and slows down burst rates as well as focus times...and munches up batteries faster too.

Also another side note...clarity has zip, zilch, zero and nada to do with megapixels. Quality of glass and image sensor(not size) and lack of motion(using a tripod, proper shutter speeds, etc) is what gives you sharp, clear photos.

[Rhino95]

But if you're not a "professional" and don't have all of the "techniques" down, then if the camera can help anyway it can I'm all for it. Sorry, but I disagree that MPs have NOTHING to do with clarity. If you enlarged a 4MP photo to and 8x10 and enlarged another one shot with a 12MP wouldn't you say the 12MP would be more CLEAR??

Also the live view won't drian the battery when you're not using it. There's a time for live view and it isn't always on when taking photos. Only on if you push the "live view" button.

[Rhino95]

said the 300mm zoom lense will be coming out in the next month or so.

You mean THIS (http://www.adorama.com/IOM70300.html?searchinfo=zuiko%2070-300mm&item_no=1) one? :D

More info HERE (http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/lens/dea/products/lens/70-300_40-56/index.asp).

[Jeffro600]

Sorry, but I disagree that MPs have NOTHING to do with clarity. If you enlarged a 4MP photo to and 8x10 and enlarged another one shot with a 12MP wouldn't you say the 12MP would be more CLEAR??


Nope, but then it depends on what your definition of "clarity" is...the higher megapixel has more resolution but not more clarity.

To the naked eye, there would be no difference in quality of pictures with a 4MP or 12 MP camera with an 8X10...given that they are two exactly the same photos.

[Rhino95]

To the naked eye, there would be no difference in quality of pictures with a 4MP or 12 MP camera with an 8X10...given that they are two exactly the same photos.

HIGHLY doubt that.

[Jeffro600]

HIGHLY doubt that.

Try it out yourself if you dont believe me...i have images from my Canon G1 that are about 7 years old that are only 3.1 Megapixels and blown up to 8X10, in good light with the naked eye, you cant tell a differnce in quality vs pictures taken with my D80(which is 10MPs)

Put them under a loupe or blow them up to larger sizes and you start to see pixels.

[Rhino95]

blow them up to larger sizes and you start to see pixels.

Isn't that what I was saying?

[Jeffro600]

Isn't that what I was saying?

Not sure what you were saying exactly... :shrug: If it was more megapixels equals better quality photos, it was wrong. :P To a certain point at least.

[Rhino95]

It's ALL about the photographer in the end, but like I said, if you don't know as much as a professional, why not get a camera that minimizes human err? MPs and IS definitely help.

[Tiffany]

MPs DO NOT EQUAL CLARITY!

Whoever told you that is not paying attention to much of anything.

I was in that camp for a while, but a good read got me straight.

From 6 to 10mp all you are getting is more pixels per inch, not clarity.

Your clarity in pictures comes from your glass. You can take the exact same camera and and put several different lenses on and see major difference in clarity.

There are folks with D40s with high quality glass that have pics that look worlds better than the same pic with a D80 with cheap glass.

[Hardcor4x4]

Well unless Olympus in the next couple months comes out with another Evolt model that has infinate bulb control on the shutter I think i'm going to be looking at the Canon XTI 10mp camera.
IS isn't a huge deciding factor to me although it would be nice for the quick on the go shots. My current Fujifilm S5000 is only 3.1mp and no IS but i've never really had trouble getting crisp clear pictures in daylight and well lite rooms. I've never used a tripod. It was always low light, concert, auditorium shots that would blurr because in auto mode the shutter decided it needed to stay open longer then usual and blurr anything that moved in the shot. But with what I want to be able to do I need infinate control on the bulb function. Some planetary shots need longer exposure to gather all the color that isn't visible to the naked eye. Especialy nebulas. Nebulas look like a faint milky cloud with no color through a telescope. To gather the color that the naked eye isn't seeing you have to have an exposure of several minutes to nearly an hour on some nebulas for the shot to come out. This guy HERE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/astroimager/sets/1180738/detail/) uses a older Canon Rebel DSLR camera but uses a much nicer telescope then I have but look at his photos and you'll see alot of the nebulas with an awful lot of color and trust me, you don't see that color with the naked eye through the telescope. I've viewed Jupiter several times with my telescope and to the naked eye through a telescope it's very gray and hard to distingish the cloud bands. I Think I'll be very happy with the XTI and it has the abilty to expand more when i'm ready. (Or can afford it. :o )

[Tiffany]

You will be very happy with the XTi! I was dead set on upgrading to a 20D or 40D, but after doing the comparison shopping I am simply going to upgrade to the XTi and call it done.

I can't wait to see your pics...

[Hardcor4x4]

Wow, seems Amazon and Adorama have the best prices with under $700. I'm used to Newegg.com have the best prices but their almost $100 more. Even Ebay stores can't touch that price for just the camera. there are a few $699 deals on there that come with a camera case, 2 tripods, memory, and cleaning kit. It might be worth it to get that for the case and tripods. but on the other hand I think i'd rather find my own mini tripod and quality full size tripod and case.
Now to just look at finances and see when I can get it. Planning for a wedding and christmas coming up it may be another month or 2 before I can see spending for it. But will definatly have it and a telephoto lense before our honeymoon cruise to the western caribbean next June.

[Tiffany]

Cool deal. Another idea is to check some of the more popular photo forums for folks upgrading and selling combos for decent prices.

For Canon:
photography-on-the.net (great for sale section with a lot of new to near new stuff)
dgrin.com (lots of stuff moves on there and is seperated by manufacturer)

For the used market, the time is good as the 40D just came out and a lot of XTi users upgraded to it (not sure why, but...)

[Rhino95]

Plus in the next 2 or 3 months, I'm sure there will be another model out too. I've been told that Canon and Nikon try to get their latest models out before christmas...so. But I could be completetly wrong to.

[Tiffany]

The 40D just came out...that and the MKIII (think that is it) are the only new models Canon has for right now.

[Hardcor4x4]

ok So I spent most all weekend doing a lot of homework, research, window shopping at Wolfcamera, and tons of reading at DPreview forums and come to a very easy dicision that the Olympus E510 is well worth the little extra then the Canon Xti.

I looked over Pbase.com and Flickr.com at hundreds of photos taken with each camera model and consistanly kept seeing a big difference in color, sharpness and overall wow factor no matter what the picture was from in the Olympus. I also looked at the sample photos on Dpreview for each camera and found several photos of that same exact shot of either the same bridge, building or landscape for each camera. Theres a big difference in every Olympus shot vs the same shot on the Canon. Olympus in my opinion had a much sharper image and color that just looked much more natural and stood out more. basically had the WOW factor.

I also ask on a couple forums about using the Olympus E510 for taking photos through telescopes and night star movement shots and everyone that has done it said the 8 minute bulb limit doesn't bother them as they take several timed exposure shots and layer them together for some amazing shots. Several people showed me their online gallery of their astronomy shots using either the E410, E500 or E510 and was quite impressed.

Olympus is also anouncing this week a new Pro body camera called the E-3 and some new lenses coming out next month. Predictions are though that this new camera will be around $1500 range or more. One of the new lenses coming out is the 75-300mm lense and it's price will be around $250-$300.


So now I need to convince everyone in my family to just go in together and buy me the E510 2 lense kit or if they think I was a really good boy the new E-3 for christmas and i'll be happy. :D

[Tiffany]

Very Cool. I was extremely impressed with my dad's E500...I couldn't take a bad picture with it.

Impressed so much so that I have it on my short list of backup cameras...for $599 its hard to pass it up...and that includes the two lenses.

I just invested a bit more money into Canon lenses this weekend so will stick with that as my main body.

[Rhino95]

After doing lots of shopping, the cheapest price I found on my 510 was adorama.com just FYI. Also thanks for letting me know about the lenses coming out. No I need to start saving for one or two. I think you'll like it. I know I LOVE mine. Also I started messing with the live view yesterday and found out that when you adjust your settings (certain settings) it will show you wgat the picture WILL look like when you take it.

[Hardcor4x4]

The new E-3 and the new lineup of lenses being release this month and next month.
http://www.photographybay.com/2007/06/28/olympus-e-p1-leaked-info/

I'm betting that camera will be around $2,000