A trail etiquette tip

[SamFromCO]

When there are something like 20 vehicles behind you at an obstacle, i.e. the rock garden at Spring Creek last Saturday, you don't have to wait until the vehicle that you are following has made it through the obstacle and is out of sight before you saunter back down the trail a half mile or so and get your rig.

[jtw2]

anybody in particular you aimed that at or do you just have your panties in a bunch in general?

[wileec]

anybody in particular you aimed that at or do you just have your panties in a bunch in general?

This does not need to be pointed at any ONE person I have seen this from groups on trails as well.

My word of advice is that when you see the vehicle that you stoped behind hit the obsticle you should be on the way to getting yours and be at the obsticle befor the last guy leaves-and in time to signal the next guy. This works real well unless you are following Joe in his buggy he does not slow down for minor obstacles (like French Creek).
LOL nice run Joe.

[scottycards]

Or, you could just avoid Spring Creek when 8,625 people have posted on the internet that they are going to be up there that day.

We ran LHC Carnage on Sat, and had the trail to ourselves.

Just a thought.......

[newracer]

It was 8,625. :D

How much time was actually lost? A few minutes? :shrug:

[SamFromCO]

anybody in particular you aimed that at or do you just have your panties in a bunch in general?
From the Trip Report forum....
5 hours were spent on French Creek
You've explained your position very well. What more can I say?

[scottycards]

Got me- I just edited it.......:flipoff2: I lost count when it got over 8,000:D

[jtw2]

ya, that slays me. you know damn good and well it's gonna be a long day but you still can't just relax and have a good day. Gotta hurry up and rush to get back home and do nothing. If your schedule is that tight stay home.
:crybaby: :crybaby:

[jtw2]

From the Trip Report forum....

You've explained your position very well. What more can I say?

and not one single person waited on us.

FOAD.

[scottycards]

Always cracks me up when people are in a hurry on the golf course as well.

Who goes golfing so that they can be in a hurry?

Probably the same people who are in a hurry when they wheel.........

[MinesJeep]

Agree, with Scott if you dont wanna run with 20-30 people go run something else. We ran wheeler 2 hours earlier than we planned to miss the big group coming up later in the day and did the same thing at Middle St Vrain. Just plan to start early or plan to sit and wait!

[Big Dave]

I don't think Sam's issue is with the # of people on the trail, just the lack of consideration of the other people on the trail. Just because you're part of a ginormous group doesn't allow to take your sweet ass time and hold everyone else up. A large group should be aware of any smaller groups that come up behind them that may be travelling faster, and allow them to pass if possible/safe.

[scottycards]

I agree, consideration and courtesy is always best.

[Brutus]

On the flipside of the coin... when you know that there are 8,624 rigs left to come up behind you... go ahead an pull WELL ahead of everyone AFTER the obstacle. I was in the back of the group... second to last co4x4'er and I took my time getting back to my rig to do the rockgarden because there were so many rigs parked at the top of the rock garden it wouldn't matter either way!

Jason

[SamFromCO]

Thanks, Dave, for a better explaination of my position. I guess that common courtesy ain't so common.

[Steve]

Thanks, Dave, for a better explaination of my position. I guess that common courtesy ain't so common.

It's about as common as common sense. :shrug:

[otisdog]

French Creek never gets jammed.
Jim

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/otisdog4/Other%20Stuff/P1010034Medium.jpg

[BuiltBlazer]

Or, you could just avoid Spring Creek when 8,625 people have posted on the internet that they are going to be up there that day.

We ran LHC Carnage on Sat, and had the trail to ourselves.

Just a thought.......


what time did you run the trail? must have been later in the day. must have been 12-15 vehicles were bound up right at the front around 11, and there was one of "those" guys who would complete an obsticle and then tell the rest of the kids just how to do it. and i was:flipoff2: :rant: I could have... well :D

[SamFromCO]

must have been 12-15 vehicles were bound up right at the front around 11, and there was one of "those" guys who would complete an obsticle and then tell the rest of the kids just how to do it. and i was:flipoff2: :rant: I could have... well :D
:lmao:

[Rambill II]

:flipoff2: Get up earlier and you won't have to wait for anyone.

This isn't golf and you cannot "Play Through", if your behind someone you wait, just like the guy ahead of you has to do. If your on a time schedule, don't go 4-wheeling. There are way too many things that can happen that can cause delays to be getting upset over someone making sure one of his group members makes it through an obsticle.

Impatient people need to learn some manners too.

[SamFromCO]

Impatient people need to learn some manners too.
I wasn't rude or ill mannered and I didn't expect to "play through". I sat and waited my turn....for 2 hours. I do think that the people holding up the trail unnessisarily by not being ready to go when it was their turn were not being considerate.
On another subject, I do want to say thanks again to the guy that was un-stacking the rocks. :thumbsup: I appreciate that.

[Colorado 5.9]

Shoulda been with us Sam. We didn't have to wait for anyone & no one had to wait for us.:)

[Big Dave]

W
T
F

[SamFromCO]

Shoulda been with us Sam. We didn't have to wait for anyone & no one had to wait for us.:)
Hey Scott, I wish I had known that you guys were going. We would have gone up earlier. Haven't been wheeling with you guys for a long time. My plan was to give the big group a couple of hours head start. I guess that I was a tad optimistic.
As it turned out we did the trail (including the drive out) in a little less than 5 hours. I've been up there when it's taken a lot longer than that.

[teamextreme]

You guys are all missing Sam's point. I was on the trail that day too, first one up, didn't see another rig all day. However, when you are on a trail that is clogged with rigs everyone needs to realize this and do their best to clear obstacles as efficiently as they can. This doesn't mean Sam is "impatient", or wants to "play through" or any of the other insults thrown his way. Even the most patient, relaxed laid back person in the world, which I consider a pretty close description of myself, doesn't want to sit at an obstacle for 2, 3 or more hours waiting for people hammering their junk on obstacles they have no business trying, for 30 minutes each. Not implying that was happening on SC this weekend, I wasn't at the traffic jam, I don't know. But, I did see this at French Creek this year and after 3 hours even Mr. Patience (me) was getting fed up with people trying the most insane lines with vehicles that clearly had no chance of making it, and spending 30 to 45 minutes each doing it.

A little courtesy when it's crowded is not too much to ask, nor can it be called whining or being impatient. That means getting back to your rig when, or before, it's your turn, leaving room for others to pull up, and even more importantly, 3 tries, maybe 10 minutes, then pull cable.

How about another suggestion for French Creek specifically. If you're waiting your turn beyond the creek, park half way off the trail so rigs coming down can get through between attempts of those going up. Not so far over that bozo's coming up behind you think you're not waiting and try to leap frog you, but enough so a rig can squeeze by. I think this would help the congestion problem with vehicles going both ways a bunch. It only takes literally a minute to get a rig down the creek, but can take 10 times that going up for even a capable rig.

[jtw2]

he wasn't talking about goofing on obstacles for 30 minutes (which I agree is being an asshole). he was talking about people "sauntering" back to their rigs after the guy in front of them cleared an obstacle which would have saved, what? 30 seconds? that's just being a :crybaby:

[teamextreme]

If it only took 5 hours, that's not so bad. In fact I don't know how you managed that with all the waiting. We were first ones on the trail at 8:30 (far as I know anyway) and didn't wait a bit and it still was 1:30 (5 hours) before we got back to the trailer at the trail head. We did have to change a brake line out which took 30 minutes and we ate at the top for another hour or so. We drove everything one shot too, no time dilly-dallying at any obstacles.

[teamextreme]

he wasn't talking about goofing on obstacles for 30 minutes (which I agree is being an asshole). he was talking about people "sauntering" back to their rigs after the guy in front of them cleared an obstacle which would have saved, what? 30 seconds? that's just being a :crybaby:

Ok, I can see your point there

[cwkelle]

if you get backed up on a trail, why not get out and check out the other rides and talk to some folks...i'm with scottycards...whats the big deal, gheez

[bterpstra]

he wasn't talking about goofing on obstacles for 30 minutes (which I agree is being an asshole). he was talking about people "sauntering" back to their rigs after the guy in front of them cleared an obstacle which would have saved, what? 30 seconds? that's just being a :crybaby:

I'll agree with Sam. Couple of reasons:

1) sometimes you actually do have to hurry on down the trail. Bad things happen and even if you allow all the extra time you could ever hope to need, you can still end up running late. If I waited for a Saturday where I had nothing else going on later, I'd never actually get out on a trail.

2) 30 seconds? Not exactly. Do the flubbin' math: each person in a 20 car line delays 30 seconds at each of 3 obstacles. Try half an hour spent waiting over the course of a day. It's happened to me, and it's not nice.

It's not :crybaby:

It's just common sense & thinking about the people behind you. If you're in a line and the trail is crowded MOVE IT ALONG.

Anyone who thinks that is whining is being a bit of a pinhead.

[jtw2]

:rolleyes:

[SamFromCO]

I don't have anything else to add. I started this post to discuss improving trail etiquette. If you don't agree then continue on doing things the way you think is right, no hard feelings. If you were there, you would have seen that several times there were long gaps in between vehicles due to people not keeping up. I tend to believe that some of them were quite a bit longer than 30 seconds but I wasn't timing anybody. Just enjoying the day like everybody else.
The point has been made that it was only a couple of minutes difference. I think it was longer. But, if you want to know how long even a couple of extra minutes are then try this. The next time you are in line at a busy check out, see how long it actually takes for the person in front of you to write a check. You know "that" person, the one that has to see the total before they even begin to fill out the check. Oh, and balance the checkbook and maybe visit a little with the checker. It will only be a few minutes. See if you don't find that to be a little annoying.

[Eric]

I agree with you Sam, a little courtesy and consideration goes a long way. This is especially valid in large groups where "minor delays" can add up to a very long day for everyone (not only in the group, but for others waiting to get by). I have to admit I've inadvertently been the bad guy a few times... I'll be caught up in the action and suddenly realize "oh I'm next? Oops".

[87xjco]

I'm guilty of that sometimes too. Not going to my vehicle until the rig in front is finished.

Usually because i'm filming and want to get everything. When it's possible, it's nice to have someone along that can take over the camera and doesn't have a rig waiting in line.

Big groups have several things they could do to speed things along and be more couteous.

Not only having your vehicle ready to run the obstacle as soon as the person in front of you is done, but also the first person and everyone after needs to park far enough up the trail so that everyone can get thru the obstacle and still have room to park. Don't know how many times i've seen the whole group have to move 2 or 3 times because of that.

[Red_Chili]

I'll agree with Sam.





And I'll agree with those on the other side.

Be aware of others and get back to your rig / allow other smaller groups to play through if it would work out better, and if you are the one in back jammed up, you have no other options besides being irritated (and taking a fun day and augering it for everyone around you), or taking a chill, enjoying the camaraderie of fellow wheelers, new and interesting people, watching folks take obstacles, checking out rigs, etc. And do a little bit to make life happier for everyone.

The grumpy option (or, the making people wait unnecessarily option) is what the Forest Service calls 'user conflict'. Helps no one.

[scottycards]

what time did you run the trail? must have been later in the day. must have been 12-15 vehicles were bound up right at the front around 11, and there was one of "those" guys who would complete an obsticle and then tell the rest of the kids just how to do it. and i was:flipoff2: :rant: I could have... well :D


We were on the trail before 10AM. Might have seen you guys when we were coming down- I looked up towards the shooting area and saw some rigs getting ready to go up.

I doubt it took us more than an hour to run it.