Pictures of my crashed Duc

[Camp]

For those of you that missed it, last weekend I dropped my Duc on N. Turkey Creek. I wasn't goofing off or anything special. I was traveling at a reasonable speed as my roommate and I had decided to go on a Sunday afternoon ride. As I came around a corner that gets tighter as it turns, the bike broke loose and was all over the road. I was able to keep it on two wheels and not get high sided but, had to cross the double yellows to do so. Since I was only 30 or so feet from entering the next corner, which would have been completely blind from the wrong side of the road, I chose to dump it rather than continue to fight it into the corner. I'm not entirely sure I could have saved it and if I had fought it any longer and not made it, I would have been into a rock wall that would have done a lot more damage to my bike and me.

As it was, I only ended up with a few scratches and bruises. I rode the bike home but, the left clip on bar is broken and I haven't determined if the front forks are bent or if there were able to spin in the clamps since they appear to be a little loose.

[BurbLover]

I'd say you're gonna need a few more band-aids for that. Sorry for the bad luck. I rode sport bikes for years in the Black Hills in SD. Had a couple of ZX-7s & GSXRs. None were ever close to being stock, as I know your bike isn't. I had MANY close calls, but for some unknown reason to me, never went down. Kind of makes me scared to get on them again. I know I'm over due for an accident :D We used to duct tape soda cans to our knees and run corners throwing sparks. Yeah, definately one of the dumber things I've ever done...:tisk:

At least you were able to walk away, even if you were a little sore. I've seen a few not so fortunate...

[Leon Phelps]

Jesus, that makes me cry inside. GLAD to see you walked away.

[Eric]

Ouch, glad to hear you're OK.

[Camp]

I really want to know why the bike got loose. We went back with the truck to get my keys that fell out of my pocket during the crash and I couldn't see any oil or gravel or anything. I really don't think I was going all that fast either. My only thought at this point is that when the corner got tighter, I layed it over too much and rolled over the edge of the rear tire, decreasing the contact patch. I was just being too lazy to get off the side of the bike and since I wasn't going all that fast, didn't think I needed to.

My other thought is that the triple clamps on the front were loose and that is why it looks like the front forks are bent right now, which I don't think they are. If the front end started to turn just a little, it could have made it feel weird and for me to have a strange reaction/correction. I have been getting weird feedback out of the front end for almost a month now but, haven't been able to figure out why and had been crawling all over the bike to find it.


OK, I do have one more theory. I might have had the tires pumped up a little hard but, only by a couple of pounds. I don't think that would have made enough difference. :shrug:

[Eric]

Operator error :flipoff2:

[Camp]

Operator error :flipoff2:


That could certainly be the truth but, I still want to figure out what I did wrong so when I put this thing back together, I don't do it again :D

[LoopiJeepGirl]

Most importantly...YOU ARE OK CHAD...:D

[Camp]

Most importantly...YOU ARE OK CHAD...:D

Thanks!

It just pisses me off because this is the second time I've crashed this thing. The first was 90% operator error and 10% stuck throttle in the canyon, coupled with fresh tires that weren't scuffed yet. This second crash has me baffled. :shrug:

[Leon Phelps]

How was the fork oil & seals on that beast?

[Camp]

How was the fork oil & seals on that beast?


There are no leaks and they still have full range of motion so, I'm thinking they are not bent but, misaligned in the clamps.

[Oscar]

Glad your ok but nobody has said it yet so......

That'll buff out :flipoff2:

[BurbLover]

My only thought at this point is that when the corner got tighter, I layed it over too much and rolled over the edge of the rear tire, decreasing the contact patch. I was just being too lazy to get off the side of the bike and since I wasn't going all that fast, didn't think I needed to.

Just out of curiosity, but what size rear tire is it? My guess that in order for you to have leaned it over far enough to go over the edge, you really had it leaned. And if you weren't going that fast, this sounds doubtful. When I was sport riding alot in the mid 90's, I ran 180s on my ZX-7 rear and I max'ed them, but not very often & I was usually flying at the time in the canyons.

My other thought is that the triple clamps on the front were loose and that is why...

After you had your first accident, did you go over EVERY nut, bolt, etc, to ensure they were adequately tightened (torqued if you will)? My thought were that you "checked" everything. We've all done maintenance on our vehciles and realized at one point or another that we forgot to tighten "that one".

OK, I do have one more theory. I might have had the tires pumped up a little hard but, only by a couple of pounds. I don't think that would have made enough difference.

Yeah, I don't by this theory either.


Anyways, by now means an I trying to point a finger at your Camp. I would love to own that bike, even now. Be gald that you are okay and make the best SWAG as to why this happened, so that you can make your best attempt at not repeating it.

[Aaron]

Glad to hear that you're ok....

If your triple clamps are loose, you are lucky that is all that happened. A buddy of mine downed his bike earlier this year and the story sounds identical. He still doesn't know why he couldn't get control back. Thought maybe gravel, speed, etc. He has since wrote it off to human error.

If your clamps are loose, doesn't that mean that you would start wearing seals?

[Leon Phelps]

........................
If your clamps are loose, doesn't that mean that you would start wearing seals?

Main reason I asked bout the forks, thought the same thing.

[Camp]

I hadn't ridden it much in the last month so, no, I don't think it had time to wear the seals in that time period.

Edit:

I don't remember the rear tire size off the top of my head. When I get home tonight, if it isn't too late, I'll try to get a quick look at it. I have used all of the rear tire but, not all of the front.

And no, I have not checked every nut and bolt so, I am guilty of neglect :(

[DanaT]

OK. I know this is unpopular. Here is my opinion (and I wasn't there so it only that).

You went in too hot into a decreasing radius turn. That is 100% operator error. Really is doesn't matter if it there was gravel, oil, or nothing.

You pushed to the bike or your ability to 10/10ths and then some (other wise it wouldn't have gone down). On the street, anything over 70% is not smart and most likely anything over 50% is illegal.

Now, I am NOT saying I have never done this, but using the street as a racetrack is dangerous to yourself and others. Maybe after going down twice, you will re-think doing blasts up canyons and take it to a track?? Enough soapbox. I am happy to hear you are OK and grateful to hear that no innocent bystander was in the path.

-Dana

[BurbLover]

I hadn't ridden it much in the last month so, no, I don't think it had time to wear the seals in that time period.

Edit:

I don't remember the rear tire size off the top of my head. When I get home tonight, if it isn't too late, I'll try to get a quick look at it. I have used all of the rear tire but, not all of the front.

And no, I have not checked every nut and bolt so, I am guilty of neglect :(

Not so much neglect as just human. Remember, I wasn't pointing fingers. My guess is that after the first drop, you "checked" everything th eebst that you thought was necessary. Nine out of ten times this may be good enough. This may have been #10.

As for the rear tire, if you're maxx'ing it, then that says something about your riding ability. My guess is it is a 180 or greater.

[Camp]

OK. I know this is unpopular. Here is my opinion (and I wasn't there so it only that).

You went in too hot into a decreasing radius turn. That is 100% operator error. Really is doesn't matter if it there was gravel, oil, or nothing.

You pushed to the bike or your ability to 10/10ths and then some (other wise it wouldn't have gone down). On the street, anything over 70% is not smart and most likely anything over 50% is illegal.

Now, I am NOT saying I have never done this, but using the street as a racetrack is dangerous to yourself and others. Maybe after going down twice, you will re-think doing blasts up canyons and take it to a track?? Enough soapbox. I am happy to hear you are OK and grateful to hear that no innocent bystander was in the path.

-Dana

That is what I don't get, I wasn't pushing it. My roommate was behind me by just a little bit on a BMW GS650 and took the corner at about the same speed and had absolutely no issue at all. That bike shouldn't be able to hold a candle to my bike nor is he a better rider than me and he even got off and told me he couldn't figure out what happened since it wasn't a hard corner. If I had been pushing the bike and my ability, I would agree 100% with you and I have done that in the past but, that was not the case this time. :shrug:

As for checking the bike over, it was more than a year ago that I dropped it the first time. It was actually the first ride I had it in Colorado as I picked it up in Ohio and trailered it home. I know it sounds retarded but, I wasn't doing anything all that wrong that time either, other than being unfamiliar with the bike. At the time, I didn't realize that the throttle stuck part open on me entering a corner and it carried more speed than I could deal with so, I took it across a gravel shoulder, slowing it down. I ran out of shoulder about 5 feet before I would have been able to stop it and dropped it into a grassy ditch. I went over it pretty well since then and don't really think the loose front is related specifically to that incident as it was more than 2000 miles ago. This thing just rattles like mad and tends to vibrate things loose. My neglect for maintenance may have been what bit me in the ass here.

I got home late last night and didn't get a chance to peak at the rear tire.

[DanaT]

That is what I don't get, I wasn't pushing it. My roommate was behind me by just a little bit on a BMW GS650 and took the corner at about the same speed and had absolutely no issue at all. That bike shouldn't be able to hold a candle to my bike nor is he a better rider than me and he even got off and told me he couldn't figure out what happened since it wasn't a hard corner. If I had been pushing the bike and my ability, I would agree 100% with you and I have done that in the past but, that was not the case this time. :shrug:

It may seem like he was riding the same corner at the same speed. But was he really? Did he have the same line? Has he on the throttle and you off the throttle? Was there a bump in the pavement?

I have to be truthful. Single bike wrecks are 95% the fault of the rider for some reason of another. They may tap the brake and stand the bike up a little bit. They ride too fast.

Basic lesson here is that riding motorcycles at even a brisk pace on the street can be very dangerous. I have also seen many times where the pack mentality takes over and riders are pushed beyond their ability by faster riders in the pack. This really happens when a person "knows" they have the faster bike. It can happen on corners; it can happen on straights.

I have personally had this happen when I was riding. I was in a group with my bike being the pig. Everyone knows that a GSXR1000 is faster in corners than a Hayabusa. The guy was really trying hard to make the GSXR faster through Big Thompson Canyon. When I saw him not stable in corners and running wide often, I decided it was time to really pull the speeds down so that he could "win". My general point here is be careful saying that just because person X could drive fast through a corner doesn't mean person Y can drive the same speed.

I think I could be riding a MotoGP bike and Nicky Haden a Vespa, and he would whoop my butt around a road course.

-Dana

[Camp]

Dana,

I don't deny that there was a signficant amount of rider error in the crash. I guess my real question, more to myself than anyone, is why was I getting strange feedback from the front end of the bike for a few weeks prior to the wreck and I couldn't find it when going over the bike looking for it. I really only use the bike to commute back and forth to work as I haven't been able to find time lately to get out for a joy ride. As such, my commute is from Evergreen to Morrison and back everyday. OK, I work in Lakewood but, the rest of the ride doesn't count :D

[DanaT]

What is the front tire like? How old is it? Even tires that look good, can be "greasy" when old.

Also, sinc eyou had a previous crash, if the forks are slightly twisted in the triple clamps, then it can give some strange feeling feedback, but not always. Another thing to make sure is that the correct tire size is on it (maybe a 55 series and not a 50 or something like that).

Also, with bikes, sometimes there is nothing wrong except tire selection. Some bike just don't like some tires.

Next up, some thr 916 series had pretty adjustable geometry. It could be that something wasn't set right. Also, never forget to inspect the streering damper. If you have a bad steering damper, it can cause problems.

On a side note, wheelies jack things up. It is hard on the front end. Not sure if the bike has been wheelied much, but it is not good on them.

How was you alignment? I know that you bike has a single sided swingarm and may not have much adjustability.

Any time you mention wreck, you need to know that you frame/swingarm/forks are all straight.

Thats a lot of stuff that can make a bike feel funny.

-Dana

[Tom N]

Consider it a lucky warning. No other way of looking at it makes good sense.

[Camp]

Thanks Dana! I'll do some thinking on that stuff and check into it all. The bike was set up on a chassis dyno immediately prior to me purchasing it and the guy I got it from was adament that I should not adjust anything. Of course, that all changes once it has been down. At this point, I have a good winter project coming out of it and will more than likely take it to have the chassis dialed when I get it done.


Tom, I'm with you on that one. That is part of why I'm trying to figure out what might have been wrong on the bike. I know what I did wrong but, there was something wrong on the bike too and I want to make sure I don't run into that again.

[LipCJ7]

I think your just over analyzing this. I bet you hit a bit of oil or dirt and the fun started. I can tell you how many times that I laid my bikes down and knew exactly why I did it.........0 times. There are just too many variables to think of, Oil, Dirt, Squared off tires or old tires or 50 other things, you dumped it yeah it sucks but your ok and the bike can be fixed thats all that matters. Also the chassis dyno means exactly nothing after you dump it 1 time, if you have the money then get it done everytime you dump it good and especially with a single side swingarm. Good luck and be safe:beer:

[Camp]

Checked last night. Rear tire is a 180.

[BurbLover]

Checked last night. Rear tire is a 180.

Since I guess it, do I get a prize :D

[Camp]

Since I guess it, do I get a prize :D


Sure, you get an internet :beer:


:flipoff2: