michael vick

[Gunter]

is he the next pac man,or is he about to the man formerly known as the falcons QB?
i say the trash needs to be taken out.i want the pro players to be the ones with passion and enthusiasm for the game,and any bad habits/behavior that comes with will cost you a job forever.
these people make me sick.

[Leon Phelps]

May his career rest in peace.

[Oscar]

IF he is found guilty he should be banned forever. It is one thing destroying your own body with drink or drugs or fighting with other people. But cruelty to animals at the scale alleged he has no business being in the NFL.

[wrestler034]

SHOOT 'EM IN DA FACE

In all reality I hope Goodell suspends him for the season. The thing to remember is Pacman got a year and hasnt been convicted of anything either. I doubt it will be a season long suspension but it should be. I feel he will be found guilty and I hope he is sent to prison on the max sentence but being a person of fame who knows.

If only this were possible.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XBuEBHi3BzU

[kPs]

IF he is found guilty he should be banned forever. It is one thing destroying your own body with drink or drugs or fighting with other people. But cruelty to animals at the scale alleged he has no business being in the NFL.

He has no business being out of jail..

Complete garbage...

[SPY]

He'll just end up on the Raiders.

[ColoradoSkier]

Pacman shouldn't be in training camp. As with all sports, the thugs need to be eradicated.

[SPY]

Pacman shouldn't be in training camp. As with all sports, the thugs need to be eradicated.


Yeah we need a bunch of sissies to idolize like Peyton Manning and Tim Duncan. Soon HS sports teams will be having slumber parties and give everybody a trophy, just for tring!

[Gunter]

Yeah we need a bunch of sissies to idolize like Peyton Manning and Tim Duncan. Soon HS sports teams will be having slumber parties and give everybody a trophy, just for tring!
that was stupid.why did you even say that?is football about men doing manly football stuff or about being a millionaire criminal?
peyton does the former...............got a problem with that?:flipoff2:

[SPY]

Peyton Manning is a total "young life" grad. I'm not saying what Vick did was right at all. I'm just saying I'd rather watch Bill Romo, Chuck Cecil, Chad Johnson, Rasheed Wallace, K-mart type players instead of Flowers like Peyton.

[Yota]

IF he is found guilty he should be banned forever. It is one thing destroying your own body with drink or drugs or fighting with other people. But cruelty to animals at the scale alleged he has no business being in the NFL.

x2. I detest dog fighting.

Besides, the Falcons won't miss him. They'll suck regardless.

[Oscar]

So you don't like winners

[SPY]

So you don't like winners

I'm more of a burger kinda guy!

[Oscar]

See all those guys are hard nose players with in the game but outside the game they are pretty low key.

[Budman]

Bring him to my house, I will give him the celeb torture package...

[Yota]

Bring him to my house, I will give him the celeb torture package...

Hell yeah. I'll bring the :beer:

[TwoDogs]

Tie a couple of pork chops to his ass, and see how many pitbulls he can out run. Here's to you M. Vick...:flipoff:

[Gags]

I'm always bothered by animal cruelty.

[Leon Phelps]

Hell yeah. I'll bring the :beer:

x2, I'll pay money to watch.

[SPY]

I'm always bothered by animal cruelty.

But you have a love of seeing people getting fuct up.:thumbsup:

[team D.A.T.A.]

The NFL won't touch Vick because he sells too many shirts.

[Oscar]

Wanna bet the new commish is putting his foot down and the union is going along with him

[FirecrackerKTM]

disgusting.

[Budman]

Bring him to my house, I will give him the celeb torture package...

Hell yeah. I'll bring the :beer:

x2, I'll pay money to watch.

Is it wrong that I have already come up with several ways I would torture him in the first couple of days???

[TwoDogs]

Is it wrong that I have already come up with several ways I would torture him in the first couple of days???


No!

[Waifer2112]

Is it wrong that I have already come up with several ways I would torture him in the first couple of days???

Let's get together, Budman. I've thought long and hard about what I'd like to do the fawks that badly abused my male pit, Brutus.

[Yota]

It's guys like this that perpetuate what I'm convinced is a genetic trait running within many-but-not-all dogs of the pit bull breed that makes them have a propensity for violence. They were breeding these dogs to kill. They murdered the ones that failed to kill. This is how you breed traits into animals - you selectively breed them. Therea are genetic lines of Pit Bulls have been selectively bred like this for a very long time. Many (dog) generations have been bred this way. Now out on the margins you'll have dogs that come from these genetic lines but are not fighting - and the owner may not even know that the dog has fighting ancestors. Those dogs may be pets. And it's those dogs that, I'm convinced, have the capacity for sudden violence.

Not all pits necessarily come from this violent ancestry, but I still believe that many do. I'd be willing to own a pit if someone could show me that its ancestors going back X generations were not fighters. Perhaps even an AKC-pedigreed pit or something like that. But I'd never own one whose recent ancestry was unknown - at least not around kids.

Oh did I just hijack this into a pit bull thread? :D Not my intent - it's really more of a comment on genetics and selective breeding. Fact is, it only takes about 20 generations to breed a trait into or out of a particular dog breed.

[scottycards]

People who get off on seeing animals suffer are sick fawks.

That is all.

[Gags]

But you have a love of seeing people getting fuct up.:thumbsup:

True. I love it.

[Waifer2112]

It's guys like this that perpetuate what I'm convinced is a genetic trait running within many-but-not-all dogs of the pit bull breed that makes them have a propensity for violence. They were breeding these dogs to kill. They murdered the ones that failed to kill. This is how you breed traits into animals - you selectively breed them. Therea are genetic lines of Pit Bulls have been selectively bred like this for a very long time. Many (dog) generations have been bred this way. Now out on the margins you'll have dogs that come from these genetic lines but are not fighting - and the owner may not even know that the dog has fighting ancestors. Those dogs may be pets. And it's those dogs that, I'm convinced, have the capacity for sudden violence.

Not all pits necessarily come from this violent ancestry, but I still believe that many do. I'd be willing to own a pit if someone could show me that its ancestors going back X generations were not fighters. Perhaps even an AKC-pedigreed pit or something like that. But I'd never own one whose recent ancestry was unknown - at least not around kids.

Oh did I just hijack this into a pit bull thread? :D Not my intent - it's really more of a comment on genetics and selective breeding. Fact is, it only takes about 20 generations to breed a trait into or out of a particular dog breed.

What have they been bred to fight, Yota?

[DaJudge]

Is it wrong that I have already come up with several ways I would torture him in the first couple of days???
Uh, it's okay to torture people but not OK to torture animals? What's wrong with this picture?

[Steve]

Uh, it's okay to torture people but not OK to torture animals? What's wrong with this picture?

I'm surprised after reading this thread that you didn't also comment on innocence until proven guilty.

[Oscar]

Because the person choose on his own will to torture the dog. The dog has no say. Maybe if they got some of their own medicine they might get a clue. Thats why

[architect1]

HAHAHA

That is all.

[ni0h]

Uh, it's okay to torture people but not OK to torture animals? What's wrong with this picture?

I think you're playing devil's advocate, because I've seen a lot of clear reasoning from you.... It's what you do.

Otherwise, that comment stands with the absurdity "how can you be against abortion but for capital punishment".

[JKTODD]

I think it shows that no matter how much money someone has you still can't buy class. To me Michael Vick is a classless individual.

[Gunter]

I think it shows that no matter how much money someone has you still can't buy class. To me Michael Vick is a classless individual.vick cant buy it,and manning has an excess of it.
vick is like a paper cup--no glass.
that's class
you said it--i didnt

[WrathOfRubicon]

I think you're playing devil's advocate, because I've seen a lot of clear reasoning from you.... It's what you do.

Otherwise, that comment stands with the absurdity "how can you be against abortion but for capital punishment".

Dang if you didn't make one of the best points against yourself in your own post I think I have ever seen. :)

I atcually don't think anything will happen to VicK, NFL wise because of this. I don't think they have any policies against it what so ever.

[Oscar]

No just something ambiguous called the personnel conduct policy

[Yota]

What have they been bred to fight, Yota?

Go read that indictment against Vick. They're being bred to fight. Usually each other.

Panty-bunch Dislaimer: Before you pit owners get all offended, I'm not suggesting that ALL pit bulls come from fighting stock. But I'm saying that far more pits come from fighting stock than any other breed. And I'm saying there are lots of pits out there that have that kind of crap in their ancestry in varying degrees. And I believe those that do come from that ancestry have a genetic predisposition to violence. Doesn't mean they will necessarily attack either - they're not robots. I just think the fighting game has screwed up big chunks of pit bulls. As long as this kind of crap (breeding dogs for fighting) continues, there will be genetically screwed up pits out there.

[DaJudge]

I'm surprised after reading this thread that you didn't also comment on innocence until proven guilty.
Yeah, that, too!

Because the person choose on his own will to torture the dog. The dog has no say. Maybe if they got some of their own medicine they might get a clue. Thats why
An eye for an eye, eh?

Otherwise, that comment stands with the absurdity "how can you be against abortion but for capital punishment".
Why is that absurd?

[Budman]

Uh, it's okay to torture people but not OK to torture animals? What's wrong with this picture?

Yes, the dogs were just doing what they were trained to do. The people know better. Besides, Some folks just need to be whooped.

[Budman]

Go read that indictment against Vick. They're being bred to fight. Usually each other.

Panty-bunch Dislaimer: Before you pit owners get all offended, I'm not suggesting that ALL pit bulls come from fighting stock. But I'm saying that far more pits come from fighting stock than any other breed. And I'm saying there are lots of pits out there that have that kind of crap in their ancestry in varying degrees. And I believe those that do come from that ancestry have a genetic predisposition to violence. Doesn't mean they will necessarily attack either - they're not robots. I just think the fighting game has screwed up big chunks of pit bulls. As long as this kind of crap (breeding dogs for fighting) continues, there will be genetically screwed up pits out there.

You know you make an exellent point here. You can breed for about anything you want. This is in the horse, dog, or human world. And if you do it for enough generations you can almost perfect it.

[Gunter]

You know you make an exellent point here. You can breed for about anything you want. This is in the horse, dog, or human world. And if you do it for enough generations you can almost perfect it.
so hitler though too..........

[sames]

People who get off on seeing animals suffer are sick fawks.

That is all.

X2

[RebelRescuer]

It's guys like this that perpetuate what I'm convinced is a genetic trait running within many-but-not-all dogs of the pit bull breed that makes them have a propensity for violence. They were breeding these dogs to kill. They murdered the ones that failed to kill. This is how you breed traits into animals - you selectively breed them. Therea are genetic lines of Pit Bulls have been selectively bred like this for a very long time. Many (dog) generations have been bred this way. Now out on the margins you'll have dogs that come from these genetic lines but are not fighting - and the owner may not even know that the dog has fighting ancestors. Those dogs may be pets. And it's those dogs that, I'm convinced, have the capacity for sudden violence.

Not all pits necessarily come from this violent ancestry, but I still believe that many do. I'd be willing to own a pit if someone could show me that its ancestors going back X generations were not fighters. Perhaps even an AKC-pedigreed pit or something like that. But I'd never own one whose recent ancestry was unknown - at least not around kids.

Oh did I just hijack this into a pit bull thread? :D Not my intent - it's really more of a comment on genetics and selective breeding. Fact is, it only takes about 20 generations to breed a trait into or out of a particular dog breed.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[RebelRescuer]

Well, its obvious to me that ANYONE engaged in this sort of activity is obviously suffering from Small Penis Syndrome. And anyone who feels that this piece of s**t is some sort of hero, obviously has the same problem.

Innocent until proven guilty? The dogs never had that luxury.

Give him the chair, but not until he and I have had a few minutes together in a sound-proof room (with powertools).

What REALLY gets me are the blind fans who sit around every Sunday making these pieces of s**t out to be heroes. Buy their clothes, buy their tickets, and support them! Ugh, no thanks.

[sames]

What really bothers me is that I believe I could shoot this a$$hat and it would not bother me at all.

[Gags]

It's guys like this that perpetuate what I'm convinced is a genetic trait running within many-but-not-all dogs of the pit bull breed that makes them have a propensity for violence. They were breeding these dogs to kill. They murdered the ones that failed to kill. This is how you breed traits into animals - you selectively breed them. Therea are genetic lines of Pit Bulls have been selectively bred like this for a very long time. Many (dog) generations have been bred this way. Now out on the margins you'll have dogs that come from these genetic lines but are not fighting - and the owner may not even know that the dog has fighting ancestors. Those dogs may be pets. And it's those dogs that, I'm convinced, have the capacity for sudden violence.

Not all pits necessarily come from this violent ancestry, but I still believe that many do. I'd be willing to own a pit if someone could show me that its ancestors going back X generations were not fighters. Perhaps even an AKC-pedigreed pit or something like that. But I'd never own one whose recent ancestry was unknown - at least not around kids.

Oh did I just hijack this into a pit bull thread? :D Not my intent - it's really more of a comment on genetics and selective breeding. Fact is, it only takes about 20 generations to breed a trait into or out of a particular dog breed.

This is absolutely right. Bulldogs have had the violence bred out, the American Doberman is a very different dog than German lines that are one handler dogs. It actually takes much less than 20 generations. You can line breed the agression out of a pit line with 10 breedings. It is so much easier than banning the breed which doesn't stop illegal dog fighting. What the pitbull lacks is a group devoted to changing the perception of the dog by changing the dogs' traits. The Doberman had a large following that wanted the dog to be a family pet which didn't attack people while at the same time maintaining the protective qualities. The breeders I know have done a great job.

[Gags]

Uh, it's okay to torture people but not OK to torture animals? What's wrong with this picture?

I think the feeling comes from the fact that the animals are innocent and people are often guilty and malicious. Budman thinks it's only OK to torture guilty people.:D

[Jeepindog]

What really bothers me is that I believe I could shoot this a$$hat and it would not bother me at all.

So, does it bother you, or not? I'm confused... :shrug:

Pit Bulls are fighting dogs. Can someone who feels otherwise please tell me exactly what the "Pit" in Pit Bull means, if it doesn't indeed refer to the fighting pit?

[Gunter]

So, does it bother you, or not? I'm confused... :shrug:

Pit Bulls are fighting dogs. Can someone who feels otherwise please tell me exactly what the "Pit" in Pit Bull means, if it doesn't indeed refer to the fighting pit?
i believe their lineage is from hunting dogs.

[Oscar]

Pit is not a breed they are american stratford terriers actually

[Jeepindog]

So far we have two wrong answers. Anyone else? :beer:

[Oscar]

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanstaffordshire.htm

[RebelRescuer]

So far we have two wrong answers. Anyone else? :beer:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there IS no such thing as a "pit bull" but is rather one (or a mix) of five breeds. I believe American Staffordshire Terrier (AmStaff), American Bulldog, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, (and that's all I know).

I don't believe they are a recognized "breed" at all really.

As far as where the "pit" comes in, I'm not sure. I know they used them to work with bulls (as in bovine).

Did you know that a pit is the ONLY dog that is neither fazed, nor harmed by O2 spray...making them almost impossible to remove from a victim? The effect is the same as spraying them with water. Also, pits are the only dogs that will wag while attacking.

I have nothing against them, but once again MAN has stepped in and screwed things all up for these guys.

[Jeepindog]

That's more like it. Really no such "breed" as a Pit Bull.

So, for those dogs referred to as Pit Bulls, what does the "pit" indicate of it's derivation?

(Here's a hint from Oscar's link) "After dog fighting was banned in the United States in 1900, two strains of these dogs were developed, a show strain and a fighting dog strain. The show strain was labeled the American Staffordshire, while the fighting dog strain was labeled the American Pit Bull Terrier. The two are now being recognized as separate breeds."

[wrestler034]

There is a "Breed" of Pit Bull. It is the American Pit Bull Terrier. There is also the American Staffordshire Terrier as well as the Staffordshire Terrier. They are all lumped together (incorrectly) as Pit Bulls. The American Pit Bull Terrier is not regognized by the AKC but is by one of the other major registeries(UKC I believe).

[Jers79CJ]

Let the NFL know how you feel about dog fighting.
https://community.hsus.org/campaign/US_2007_dogfighting_nfl?rk=f1MrqUd17tIeW (https://community.hsus.org/campaign/US_2007_dogfighting_nfl?rk=f1MrqUd17tIeW)

[wrestler034]

The dogs were also bred to fight but that still does not make it right. People that do this to animals are imo sick. The dogs were also bred to bait bulls and even bears and they excellled at each due to their high drive. That same drive is what makes Pit owners so loyal to the breed. Pits have more "heart" than any other breed(again imo). Now as pets rather than fighters that drive is focused on pleasing their owners. Most of the pit attacks on people are caused by poorly bred, unsocialized dogs that have had the pit bull nature bred out. All of the ads in the paper claiming "90 pound pit bull blah blah blah" are outright scam artist that do not know the breed. A true American Pit Bull Terrier should be no more than ~62 lbs per the breed standard. The 90 lb dogs are crosses with mastiffs (cane corso's etc.) and it is never smart to cross a dog with the drive of a pit with a protection breed(read a breed that WAS bred to bite people).

[Waifer2112]

Go read that indictment against Vick. They're being bred to fight. Usually each other.

Panty-bunch Dislaimer: Before you pit owners get all offended, I'm not suggesting that ALL pit bulls come from fighting stock. But I'm saying that far more pits come from fighting stock than any other breed. And I'm saying there are lots of pits out there that have that kind of crap in their ancestry in varying degrees. And I believe those that do come from that ancestry have a genetic predisposition to violence. Doesn't mean they will necessarily attack either - they're not robots. I just think the fighting game has screwed up big chunks of pit bulls. As long as this kind of crap (breeding dogs for fighting) continues, there will be genetically screwed up pits out there.

No panty-bunching here. I just don't like to hear propaganda repeated. Because you never answered my question, you left open what they're trained to fight. Other dogs? People? Rainbows? That's all my point was.

I have a dog that was used for training pits. He is a pit himself. Neither he nor the dogs that tore him up were ever trained to hurt a person, and my bet would be they would be killed instantly for ever biting one of their handlers.

[Waifer2112]

The dogs were also bred to fight but that still does not make it right. People that do this to animals are imo sick. The dogs were also bred to bait bulls and even bears and they excellled at each due to their high drive. That same drive is what makes Pit owners so loyal to the breed. Pits have more "heart" than any other breed(again imo). Now as pets rather than fighters that drive is focused on pleasing their owners. Most of the pit attacks on people are caused by poorly bred, unsocialized dogs that have had the pit bull nature bred out. All of the ads in the paper claiming "90 pound pit bull blah blah blah" are outright scam artist that do not know the breed. A true American Pit Bull Terrier should be no more than ~62 lbs per the breed standard. The 90 lb dogs are crosses with mastiffs (cane corso's etc.) and it is never smart to cross a dog with the drive of a pit with a protection breed(read a breed that WAS bred to bite people).

Well written. :thumbsup:

[RebelRescuer]

Well, I don't care if Vick was fighting gerbils...the fact remains that A) its against the law B) its a sick "sport" and C) he doesn't deserve any more press, coverage, or glamorization.

The fact that the goon can throw a football and run DOES NOT a hero make. Obviously he didn't need the money, so I'm thinking that this "behavior" comes from a sick need to compete by fighting these dogs.

It's a DARN sad reflection on the state of ourselves that this so-called hero (and how many others?) spend their free time pulling crap like this. Meanwhile there are people all over the country who really DO help others, and yet you'll never see them pulling down multimillion dollar contracts. No one is standing in line to buy their tickets.

Our world is F'd up.

[WrathOfRubicon]

I'll never get the connection between.. His being paid to play football well for his team that you may or may not support and anything he does off the field.


Can somebody make that connection for me please?

[RebelRescuer]

I'll never get the connection between.. His being paid to play football well for his team that you may or may not support and anything he does off the field.


Can somebody make that connection for me please?


Mind if I try to make that connection for you?

These are guys who make millions to do what exactly? Play a SPORT...represent their teams, their states, the NFL, etc. These are the guys that our kids look up to, that are the modern-day heroes, the gladiators if you will.

MOST of US would lose our jobs if we were caught, say, selling dope. Sure, we can still do our job well. But most employers would rather NOT employ a known dope dealer (as well they shouldn't).

As far as why the NFL should be angry....its easy to see. It's bringing them bad press. There are a lot of dog-lovers and stand-up guys out there who would like to see this guy hang. And these are the same people who would think twice before spending their money on merchandise and tickets thanks to this jerk.

Call a spade a spade....the NFL (like the others) is a BUSINESS and a big one at that. Anything that interrupts the flow of said money should be deemed bad in their eyes. They'd be stupid to tolerate bad behavior from their players.

Do you think these guys play for the glory? Do you think the NFL exists to entertain you? Hell no....BIG business. And bad press is bad for business.

[ColoradoSkier]

From ESPN.com:

The Associated Press reported that after consulting with the Falcons, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and top league officials agreed Wednesday to let Vick play as the legal process determines the facts.

[Budman]

I'll never get the connection between.. His being paid to play football well for his team that you may or may not support and anything he does off the field.


Can somebody make that connection for me please?

Yes I can. When you are a Role model, Hero, or someone who is looked up to, you are held to a higher standard on and off duty.

I put on a uniform every day, and take it off every night. However; when I take the uniform off I am still in the military, and someone who is looked up to by kids, and held to a higher standard because of my place as a role model.

If you don't want the responsibility then go to work on wall street or something.

Same goes for Celebs, atheletes, etc.

EDIT: Rebelrescuer beat me to it.

[RebelRescuer]

Yes I can. When you are a Role model, Hero, or someone who is looked up to, you are held to a higher standard on and off duty.

I put on a uniform every day, and take it off every night. However; when I take the uniform off I am still in the military, and someone who is looked up to by kids, and held to a higher standard because of my place as a role model.

If you don't want the responsibility then go to work on wall street or something.

Same goes for Celebs, atheletes, etc.

EDIT: Rebelrescuer beat me to it.

:hail: :hail: :hail: Thanks for saying that. Sometimes I have trouble getting out what I'm trying to say!! :beer:

[WrathOfRubicon]

I guess I will never look at people that way. Their job is their job and their off time if their off time.


This seems a society issue. I can admire and be entertained by somebody's abilities and still detest them as a person without issue.

So you think this will hurt the NFL or the Falcons financially? If so, how does that effect you in a negeative way personally?

So you think, kids out there are thinking, man Vick is into dog fighting, so I gotta get into that too?


A higher standard???? Vick is about an equal piece of shit personally than better than 90% of the entire world popluation, less so than many respected world goverments including our own.

But hey, we are all entitled to our own opinions on the matter. I tend to be more logical, but then again, I am admittedly a worthless loser myself and I am sure my own logical nature has contributed to this fact.

[Gunter]

to a point what you do on your own time is your deal.i dont care,but when you bring the big suck and shame and disgust and embarressment to your organization,they have every right to bust your balls,up to and including firing you.
hopefully he will reap what he has sown.

[RebelRescuer]

If so, how does that effect you in a negeative way personally?


Asshats like this DO effect me in a negative way personally. In case you didn't know...I run a dog rescue. I help dogs that have been treated this way by "people" like this. I teach dogs how to run that have never been out of tiny cages. So yeah, I get a little sensitive about this sort of thing. And it always boils down to greed when it comes to crap like this.

Many can turn a blind eye and say that this guy is still a good player blah blah blah. But imo, anyone who supports him on or off the field is no better than he is. Why give this creep your money, time or support?????? Why defend him? Why make light of the fact that he's an unethical CRIMINAL??

Go ahead and tell your kids that he's great. Then when you're bailing them out of jail because their heros are criminals....you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

ETA---what if he were an actor instead of a sports figure? Would the landscape of this discussion be different?

[ColoradoSkier]

ETA---what if he were an actor instead of a sports figure? Would the landscape of this discussion be different?

Not sure, but this article is worth reading: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2941401&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2

[WrathOfRubicon]

Asshats like this DO effect me in a negative way personally. In case you didn't know...I run a dog rescue. I help dogs that have been treated this way by "people" like this. I teach dogs how to run that have never been out of tiny cages. So yeah, I get a little sensitive about this sort of thing. And it always boils down to greed when it comes to crap like this.

Many can turn a blind eye and say that this guy is still a good player blah blah blah. But imo, anyone who supports him on or off the field is no better than he is. Why give this creep your money, time or support?????? Why defend him? Why make light of the fact that he's an unethical CRIMINAL??

Go ahead and tell your kids that he's great. Then when you're bailing them out of jail because their heros are criminals....you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

ETA---what if he were an actor instead of a sports figure? Would the landscape of this discussion be different?



My question was not how does the fact he dog fights effect you negatively. "It was how does it effect you negatively if the NFL or Falcons are hurt financially by this?" You took the quote out of context indeed. I also made it pretty clear I was way to much of a loser to ever have children, but teaching them this sort of connection is not helping anybody. I can say he is great at his job and/or on the field and still say he is detestable personally.

You can detest him personally and still amdire him professionally was the gist of my point. I just do not see how the two cross in this instance. Seems emotional and not logical for the most part with the answers given.

[Oscar]

How about this we as young Airmen were told "you are in the Air Force you don't work for the Air Force" to me it applies here he is in the NFL therefore anything that reflects badly on his organization that he does in wrong. Like Bud said some careers you have you are held to a higher standard if you don't like the responsibility then walk away.
Anybody remember the Major at the Air Force Academy that was an instructor? He like piercings and off duty like to were them but the regulations prohibited them. So he got into trouble. He was not portraying a proper military image. I bet there is a personnel conduct policy in the NFL and doing something that reflects badly on the NFL won't be tolerated. In both cases the AF and NFL you know you are held to a different standard versus Joe citizen.

[RebelRescuer]

You can detest him personally and still amdire him professionally was the gist of my point. I just do not see how the two cross in this instance. Seems emotional and not logical for the most part with the answers given.

See, but for me, there is NO separation between his ability to play and his personal life. If I were a football fan (which I'm not), everytime I saw his face on the screen, I'd think about what kind of a person he was off the field. In fact, I'd be pretty surprised if the majority of people COULD make that separation.

And you're right...its IS emotional, and for that I apologize. It strikes a nerve, what can I say. I'll try to leave that out of it.

Ok, back to the subject...

I don't think it effects most people if the team/NFL is financially effected by this. If they choose to support him, I honestly hope they grow broke doing it. However, to me it seems to be one of those "if they were smart" situations. I'm sure their publicists are working overtime trying to sort it all out.

But honestly, I could care less if the whole darn thing (NFL, teams, players, you name it) went broke.

[RebelRescuer]

How about this we as young Airmen were told "you are in the Air Force you don't work for the Air Force" to me it applies here he is in the NFL therefore anything that reflects badly on his organization that he does in wrong. Like Bud said some careers you have you are held to a higher standard if you don't like the responsibility then walk away.
Anybody remember the Major at the Air Force Academy that was an instructor? He like piercings and off duty like to were them but the regulations prohibited them. So he got into trouble. He was portraying a proper military image. I bet there is a personnel conduct policy in the NFL and doing something that reflects badly on the NFL won't be tolerated. In both cases the AF and NFL you know you are held to a different standard versus Joe citizen.

In my line of work, we cannot EVER appear drunk in public (in or out of uniform). We are held to a higher standard, and will receive the smackdown if we mess that up. It's part of the gig.

[WrathOfRubicon]

Thanks for the further clarification of your postion.

[RebelRescuer]

Thanks for the further clarification of your postion.


Ok, so I'm apparently not getting it.

So do you detest him personally and admire him professionally? Just out of curiosity...why?

[Waifer2112]

Wrath-
Can you separate the good this guy did from the bad?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Williams

Because he wrote a book for children, can you separate the fact he's a killer, too?

[WrathOfRubicon]

Becasue he (Vick) does his job well, on the professional admiration.
Because I am against animal cruelty so goes the detesting him (Vick) on the personal level.


On Stanley Williams if he wrote something that had personal interest to me, and the reviews were extraordinary, I'd read the book. So yes, I could amdire somebody as an author and detest them on a personal level.

[RebelRescuer]

Well, I'm sure OJ was a good football player too.

[WrathOfRubicon]

Well, I'm sure OJ was a good football player too.

Exactly

[Oscar]

Yea but he went crazy after his football carrer was over not during.... well maybe he did play for the Bills all those years.

[Budman]

Becasue he (Vick) does his job well, on the professional admiration.
Because I am against animal cruelty so goes the detesting him (Vick) on the personal level.


On Stanley Williams if he wrote something that had personal interest to me, and the reviews were extraordinary, I'd read the book. So yes, I could amdire somebody as an author and detest them on a personal level.

Let me take one more stab at this. I am in the AF, and Put on the uniform every day. I have young people who are also in the AF who work for me. Many moons ago in a land far away, I had a drinking problem. It did not effect my duty performance, but my young troops saw me drinking heavily on a nightly basis, and some of them started to imitate me. While I was only drinking on my own time, it still had a negative effect on those who followed me. Vick has even more followers who are younger and more impressionable than mine.

In SOME positions, your off duty time is not your own. like was said before, don't like it, walk away.

[WrathOfRubicon]

So your equating the NFL to the Air Force?

So the fact you may be imitated, precludes somebody from doing what they want and performing a job they love and are good at?

I really will never see it this way. Imitating you was good if they still performed their jobs flawlessly as well. In my book anyways. If their job performance suffered it is the part of the supervisor / compnay to handle it with them.


The real beauty here is that, I can continue to watch the NFL including the Falcons and enjoy it, and you can elect not to. We both get our way here. :)

[Budman]

So your equating the NFL to the Air Force?

So the fact you may be imitated, precludes somebody from doing what they want and performing a job they love and are good at?

I really will never see it this way. Imitating you was good if they still performed their jobs flawlessly as well. In my book anyways. If their job performance suffered it is the part of the supervisor / compnay to handle it with them.


The real beauty here is that, I can continue to watch the NFL including the Falcons and enjoy it, and you can elect not to. We both get our way here. :)


Since you don't have kids, did you have a role model as a kid?

[TwoDogs]

I'll back Budman on this. Vick is acknowledged as "the face of the Atlanta Falcons." Is the image of Vick as a felon, dogfighter, thug, etc, the image the Falcons want the public to see? This story is bigger than pro-football.

The image of the NFL, to the non-fan public is what is being shredded.

BTW: The Feds don't indict, unless they're sure they can win.

[WrathOfRubicon]

Since you don't have kids, did you have a role model as a kid?

Maybe the Apollo astronauts. Both my parents died when I was young, I really raised myself from age 7. This is as illogical as it gets to me. He gets paid to play football.

I am free to have this opinion. Many people in this thread clarified their opinion on it for me which is good. I'll still never see it any other way.

I mean, when watching the Falcons play? I will never even think about anything any of them do in their off time. Legal or not, illeagal or not.

My logical working brain just doesn't work this way.


I will only add, I don't think the Falcons or the NFL will lose a dime over this. Ok maybe a dime in the relative scheme of their cash flow.

[DaJudge]

I will only add, I don't think the Falcons or the NFL will lose a dime over this. Ok maybe a dime in the relative scheme of their cash flow.
Vick and his sponsor will lose a bundle:


http://c.msn.com/c.gif?NC=1255&NA=1154&PS=73838&PI=7329&DI=305&TP=http%3a%2f%2fmsnbc.msn.com%2f
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/images/MSNBC/msnbc_ban.gif MSNBC.comNFL star Vick's endorsements in danger

Dogfight charges may hurt $7 million ad deal;
Nike withdraws shoe release
By Bill Briggs
MSNBC contributor

Updated: 6:08 p.m. MT July 18, 2007


NFL megastar Michael Vick has long been judged by his quarterback rating.
Today, Vick and his bean counters have a bigger concern.

A federal indictment handed down Tuesday against Vick for felony
dogfighting charges threatens to further deplete and perhaps decimate the
flashy quarterback?s once-posh endorsement portfolio ? sponsorships that
currently pay him $7 million a year. According to sports marketers, Vick?s
cachet as a celebrity pitchman for Nike and other companies is as wobbly
as a Hail Mary pass.

?His reputation has taken a harder hit than any linebacker could have put
on him,? said Don Hinchey, vice president of communications for the
Bonham Group, a sports and entertainment marketing firm based in Denver,
Colo.

Vick?s legal troubles prompted Nike on Thursday to suspend the release of
its latest product line named after the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.


Nike has told retailers it will not release a fifth signature shoe, the Air Zoom
Vick V, this summer. Stoyer said the four shoe products and three shirts
that currently bear Vick?s name will remain in stores.

Vick will be arraigned next week in a Richmond, Va., federal courtroom on
charges of sponsoring a gruesome dogfighting operation.

Nike spokesman Dean Stoyer said the company still has a standing contract
with Vick but declined to speculate on his future with Nike.

A statement released by Nike Inc. said the company ?is concerned by the
serious and highly disturbing allegations made against Michael Vick, and we
consider any cruelty to animals inhumane and abhorrent. We do believe
that Michael Vick should be afforded the same due process as any citizen;
therefore, we have not terminated our relationship."

Vick signed his current contract with Nike in 2001, the same year Atlanta
chose him as the NFL?s No. 1 overall draft pick.

Even before the animal cruelty case surfaced, Vick?s corporate status had
been chomped to the bone by months of bad press. His obscene gesture to
Atlanta Falcons? fans last November drew a $10,000 fine. His water bottle
with the hidden compartment (containing a ?dark particulate?) was
confiscated in January by airport security in Miami. Even his love life lagged
when Vick settled a lawsuit with a woman who claimed he infected her with
herpes.

Not since NBA sharpshooter Kobe Bryant hemorrhaged endorsement dollars
amid 2003 rape allegations has a high-profile athlete faced such a financial
fiasco.

?It just hasn?t been a great summer for him,? said David Carter, founder of
the Sports Business Group, a Southern California-based provider of
strategic sports-marketing services.

?It?s worse than Kobe Bryant, because five years ago we still expected
something from our athletes, some semblance of professionalism. Now we
expect so little,? Carter said. ?It?s not a one-time mess with Mike Vick. If
I?m a corporation, I say, ?Why put up with this? There?s no need to link our
brand to him.? Anybody who wants to get involved with him is doing so at
extraordinary risk.?


The shiniest jewel in Vick?s once-fat clump of endorsement bling belongs to
Nike. According to press reports, the shoe behemoth has a multi-year,
multi-million-dollar contract with Vick. So far, Nike is standing behind the
player, issuing a terse statement: ?We?re aware of the indictment and are
reviewing the information. We have no further comment at this time.? But
soon, Nike may be the only company willing to pay Vick to plug its
products.

In May, AirTran Airways cut ties with Vick. The airline didn?t specifically
point to the federal dogfighting probe or the litany of off-field scrapes, yet
it opted not to renew its three-year relationship with the player. Coca-Cola
(via its sports drink PowerAde) and Kraft Foods also have allowed
endorsement deals with Vick to lapse. A Coca-Cola spokeswoman said the
Atlanta-based beverage giant decided three years ago to switch the
marketing strategy for PowerAde away from pro athletes and toward non-
traditional sports, while a Kraft spokeswoman said the food company merely
held a ?seasonal? deal with Vick in 2005. Hasbro also has not had any
business dealings with Vick since its relationship with the player expired two
years ago.


Whatever the reasons, Vick?s endorsement worth is withering badly. In
2005, Forbes magazine listed the quarterback at No. 33 on its annual list of
the 100 most-powerful celebrities, placing him ahead of Jennifer Aniston,
Julia Roberts and Prince. His yearly salary as a football player and a
corporate face was placed at $37.5 million. His Q rating ? how advertisers
measure the value of pitchmen and women ? seemed bulletproof. In the
latest Forbes? Celebrity 100 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19230575/), Vick is not listed.

The question now: will Nike be the next to shed Vick?

When Bryant faced rape charges, McDonald?s, Coca-Cola and Nutella
quickly abandoned the Los Angeles Lakers player while Nike maintained ties
a bit longer. Nike and Bryant eventually parted company but that
separation only lasted two and a half years. Still, Nike also is seen as a
company that taps into an endorser?s ?street cred,? using edgier campaigns
to grab younger consumers, say sports marketers.

?Nike tends to give those guys a longer leash,? Carter said. ?But Vick knows
what to do with that, apparently.?

Indeed, unlike drunken driving or a nightclub shooting, the current charges
against Vick may carry more bite with fans and corporations, Carter said.
The indictment alleges that Vick and three others sponsored ? at Vick?s
Virginia home ? a dogfighting venture that included gambling along with the
buying, training and transporting of dogs for secret canine bouts.

?Unfortunately, we go numb these days when we hear from Mothers
Against Drunk Driving,? Carter said. ?But this case is different. Number one,
animal cruelty is something no one will tolerate. Number two, you have the
underbelly of possible gambling. Number three, you have the strength of
advocacy groups. They aren?t going away.?

In June, the Humane Society of the United States wrote a letter to Nike
president and CEO Mark Parker asking the shoemaker to drop Vick. Today,
the organization renewed that demand and said it would extend the same
request to other companies that pay Vick as a pitchman, like Rawlings.
(Rawlings did not immediately return a call seeking comment). Humane
Society president and CEO Wayne Pacelle acknowledged that targeting
endorsements is a tactic with teeth.

?That was a logical maneuver for us,? Pacelle said. ?We?re ever mindful that
there?s a larger cultural milieu that?s dragging people toward dog fighting for
some reason. The idea of Vick making this appealing for young people is
another reason for us to try to choke off endorsements.

?The indictment is a turning point in the case and in the interaction
between us and the NFL and Nike,? Pacelle added. ?There?s no punting this,
no hiding. They need to take action or they?re going to embarrass
themselves.?


As NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell steps up discipline against players who
run afoul of the law, or who even dent the league?s image, corporate
America is taking keen notice. But that push will not cause a reduction of
celebrity endorsements despite their inherent risks, say sports marketers.

?The discussion that?s been going on for a long time is how to reflect
corporate concerns that extend to contractual arrangements. And that?s
been done increasingly (through morals clauses),? said Hinchey of the
Bonham Group. ?But I don?t see it really affecting endorsements in general
from sports people.?

Coca-Cola spokeswoman Susan Stribling agreed that the era of celebrity
hawkers is not waning due to the missteps of some athletes.

?I don?t have a crystal ball but that is probably unlikely,? Stribling said.
?We?re looking for people who are going to be connected to our brand.
We?re looking at them from a big-picture standpoint. It?s less about any
sort of speculative issue ? on something that could happen down the
road.?

[Yota]

This is absolutely right. Bulldogs have had the violence bred out, the American Doberman is a very different dog than German lines that are one handler dogs. It actually takes much less than 20 generations. You can line breed the agression out of a pit line with 10 breedings. It is so much easier than banning the breed which doesn't stop illegal dog fighting. What the pitbull lacks is a group devoted to changing the perception of the dog by changing the dogs' traits. The Doberman had a large following that wanted the dog to be a family pet which didn't attack people while at the same time maintaining the protective qualities. The breeders I know have done a great job.

True. I think the "20 generations" thing was a number I heard in reference to how many generations it takes to essentially make a whole new breed. And I think I heard it specifically in relation to the creation of the German Shepherd breed.

We're not talking about creating a new breed here, just making a certain trait (aggressiveness) much more dominant in an existing breed.

[RebelRescuer]

So the fact you may be imitated, precludes somebody from doing what they want and performing a job they love and are good at?



No silly!! JAIL prevents CRIMINALS from performing the job they love. Why in the sam-hell should he be allowed to "do what he loves" anyway??? So should we all pat him on the back...maybe get him some counseling?

As far as "doing what they want"??? Dude come on! It's against the freakin' law!! I couldn't care less if he's good at football. He should go to the pen like all the other criminals. And if he likes fighting animals so much...he'll have plenty of animal fighting in there.

[ColoradoSkier]

Wow, just yesterday Nike was saying the shoe would come out as planned...

[sames]

Arthur Blank, Atlanta Falcons owner is one of the founders of Home Depot and owns a very large number of shares in Home Depot.

If you would like to put economic pressure on Mr Blank to drop Vick from the Falcons, call (800) 553-3199. This is the Home Depot's Customer relations phone number. Please call and express your disgust at Michael Vick's actions and the Atlanta Falcons owner (Arthur Blank who is a very large share holder of Home Depot) keeping him on the Falcon's football team. Please do not shop at Home Depot until Mr Blank removes Vick from the football team.

PLEASE SEND THIS TO YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS

[Jeepindog]

Role model? ROLE model? What role, exactly, does a professional athlete play, besides the ROLE of an athlete? Budman told us a tale about how he was worshipped by his young troops. I guess he was a pretty poor role model, by his own account. Therefore, we should all hate Budman for his poor role modeling.

People are people. A uniform doesn't make a person great, whether it is gray, olive drab, or striped. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean that they are good people. Instead, it means that when they are NOT a good person, we will usually find out about it sooner or later. Vick showed us what he's made of.

How many kids do you know of who wear a football or basketball jersey and try to emulate that player's off-field (off-court) actions?

While we're at it, let's blame rock and roll and video games for all the violence in our society, too.

[ni0h]

Why is that absurd?

Punish the guilty, protect the innocent. I guess it's not actually self-evident, but it does seem obvious.

I want bad people removed.
I want everyone else protected, particularly those who have never in any way had a possibility of hurting someone else.

[RebelRescuer]

Role model? ROLE model? What role, exactly, does a professional athlete play, besides the ROLE of an athlete? Budman told us a tale about how he was worshipped by his young troops. I guess he was a pretty poor role model, by his own account. Therefore, we should all hate Budman for his poor role modeling.

People are people. A uniform doesn't make a person great, whether it is gray, olive drab, or striped. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean that they are good people. Instead, it means that when they are NOT a good person, we will usually find out about it sooner or later. Vick showed us what he's made of.

How many kids do you know of who wear a football or basketball jersey and try to emulate that player's off-field (off-court) actions?

While we're at it, let's blame rock and roll and video games for all the violence in our society, too.

My point is that kids are gonna see what he's doing and think its the thing to do. I mean, how do you say to a kid that people like that are losers when they're flashing cars, houses etc?

How do you tell little Johnny that he needs to be a good person and not break the laws, and then sit down and cheer and clap for someone who does?

[planefixer]

Looks like the PETA psychos are getting involved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-vickprotest021907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Jeepindog]

How do you tell little Johnny that he needs to be a good person and not break the laws, and then sit down and cheer and clap for someone who does?

The same way that you explain to Little Johnny why you voted for a certain politician. I guess I don't understand why (in your opinion) a person can't dislike Michael Vick but still like the other players? So, they're all criminals now? Just like those filthy off-trail lawless four-wheelers, right?

It's quite possible to like other players besides Michael Vick. I don't think that's such a leap.

[RebelRescuer]

The same way that you explain to Little Johnny why you voted for a certain politician. I guess I don't understand why (in your opinion) a person can't dislike Michael Vick but still like the other players? So, they're all criminals now? Just like those filthy off-trail lawless four-wheelers, right?

It's quite possible to like other players besides Michael Vick. I don't think that's such a leap.

I never said anything about the other players!! Or if I did, I certainly didn't mean to. Nope, my only beef is with him.

[Budman]

Role model? ROLE model? What role, exactly, does a professional athlete play, besides the ROLE of an athlete? Budman told us a tale about how he was worshipped by his young troops. I guess he was a pretty poor role model, by his own account. Therefore, we should all hate Budman for his poor role modeling.

People are people. A uniform doesn't make a person great, whether it is gray, olive drab, or striped. Just because someone is famous doesn't mean that they are good people. Instead, it means that when they are NOT a good person, we will usually find out about it sooner or later. Vick showed us what he's made of.

How many kids do you know of who wear a football or basketball jersey and try to emulate that player's off-field (off-court) actions?

While we're at it, let's blame rock and roll and video games for all the violence in our society, too.

To answer your questions, Yes we should all hate the budman in that story. Difference is that "That" Budman was punished and taken out of a role model position until he got his poop together. Maybe not rock and role, but Rap music is a terrible influence on our society. and some of the stuff on cable TV is awful, and don't even get me started on the internet...

The same way that you explain to Little Johnny why you voted for a certain politician. I guess I don't understand why (in your opinion) a person can't dislike Michael Vick but still like the other players? So, they're all criminals now? Just like those filthy off-trail lawless four-wheelers, right?

It's quite possible to like other players besides Michael Vick. I don't think that's such a leap.


There is a country song... You've got to stand for something or you will fall for anything. For me it is about doing the right thing.

My thing is if his team does not fire him (if he is convicted) then that is a disservice to us.

[ni0h]

TThere is a country song... You've got to stand for something or you will fall for anything.

I didn't know a country song had come out with that same line. Mellencamp comes to mind first, for me.

Game players aren't heroes to my children. They're raised to see spectator sports for what they are - a waste of time, money, and enthusiasm, which makes most of the people doing the playing think what they do is important, so you get stupid aggressive people having their negative traits reinforced.

PLAYING sports is valuable, to the players.

[Waifer2112]

I didn't know a country song had come out with that same line. Mellencamp comes to mind first, for me.

Game players aren't heroes to my children. They're raised to see spectator sports for what they are - a waste of time, money, and enthusiasm, which makes most of the people doing the playing think what they do is important, so you get stupid aggressive people having their negative traits reinforced.

PLAYING sports is valuable, to the players.

You know how aggressive those golfers get. :rolleyes:

Man has made spectator sports since time immortal. There's nothing wrong with cheering for "your" side. It's when people pull out knives that there's a problem.

It must be fun for your kids to play sports knowing you won't be there to watch.

[RebelRescuer]

I didn't know a country song had come out with that same line. Mellencamp comes to mind first, for me.


It's Aaron Tippin

You've got to stand for something
Or you'll fall for anything
You've got to be your own man
Not a puppet on a string

Never compromise what's right
And uphold your family name
You've got to stand for something
Or you'll fall for anything.

[jeepn4evr]

It's Aaron Tippin

You've got to stand for something
Or you'll fall for anything
You've got to be your own man
Not a puppet on a string

Never compromise what's right
And uphold your family name
You've got to stand for something
Or you'll fall for anything.

I thought LIttle Texas sang it at one point also.

Rebel & Budman I would like to take all your comments & add a h*** yeah to them. Celebrities whether they are sports , actors news people etc should be held to the same standards as normal people if not higher. As stated before these are the people the younger generations are looking up too. Not only are they making themselves look bad if they aren't being punished for it theyare making every one in their orginizations look bad as well. I don't work for the military or any big job like that, I work for my dad full time & Sears part time. If I did anything that wasn't even half as bad as that on my off time from both jobs I would expect to get canned as that is an image neither of my employers want to promote. Fire him, take his money to pay for an animal rescue, put him in jail & if he ever gets out make him start over at the bottom, no football or endorsement contracts. If you or I did it than thats what we would have to do.

[Jeepindog]

I thought LIttle Texas sang it at one point also.

Rebel & Budman I would like to take all your comments & add a h*** yeah to them. Celebrities whether they are sports , actors news people etc should be held to the same standards as normal people if not higher. As stated before these are the people the younger generations are looking up too. Not only are they making themselves look bad if they aren't being punished for it theyare making every one in their orginizations look bad as well. I don't work for the military or any big job like that, I work for my dad full time & Sears part time. If I did anything that wasn't even half as bad as that on my off time from both jobs I would expect to get canned as that is an image neither of my employers want to promote. Fire him, take his money to pay for an animal rescue, put him in jail & if he ever gets out make him start over at the bottom, no football or endorsement contracts. If you or I did it than thats what we would have to do.

I call BS. A child who has been raised well, by a good parent or good set of parents, does *NOT* "look up to" pro athletes. They look up to those who espouse solid values and morals, and know the difference between good people and bad. That being said, a young athlete may try to emulate a favored player's game. That's a big difference between a Vick fan getting into dog fighting and a John Lynch fan spending all of his hard-earned allowance on charities. How many times have you heard of a kid copying his "hero" by devoting all of his free time to "BIg Brothers" or United Way, or UNICEF? Kids don't copy their favorite athletes. Don't get me wrong: Vick should be put to trial for this, and the league should ban him for life.

[Yota]

My sports role model:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/petrolero/Misc/RicoFootball_small.jpg

Uncle Rico :thumbsup:

"I bet I could throw a football over that mountain if I wanted to. Watch this."

[ni0h]

My sports role model:
Uncle Rico :thumbsup:


That cracked me up, seeing "Mr. Broots" in that sort of role.

[jredmond]

I wish we could get Vick to come down to Loveland so we can strap some meat on him and fish for our Pondness Monster

[Budman]

I call BS. A child who has been raised well, by a good parent or good set of parents, does *NOT* "look up to" pro athletes. They look up to those who espouse solid values and morals, and know the difference between good people and bad. That being said, a young athlete may try to emulate a favored player's game. That's a big difference between a Vick fan getting into dog fighting and a John Lynch fan spending all of his hard-earned allowance on charities. How many times have you heard of a kid copying his "hero" by devoting all of his free time to "BIg Brothers" or United Way, or UNICEF? Kids don't copy their favorite athletes. Don't get me wrong: Vick should be put to trial for this, and the league should ban him for life.

Your kids are how old???

[Oscar]

I grew up in a great family in a little town on the west slope. Myself I served 22 years in the AF and one of my sisters is a fine up standing person. My oldest brother is dead due to drugs and my other sister is a welfare loser doing drugs and booze her whole life. Kids look up to who ever they choose kids rebel against their parents all the time and look else where for mentors. Kids choose who they look up to and follow all by themselves. Public figures are prime candidates for this. No matter what you do as a parent children will choose who they idolize. Whether that role model is good or bad. Vick by the way is scum of the earth.

[Yucca-Man]

I'll back Budman on this. Vick is acknowledged as "the face of the Atlanta Falcons." Is the image of Vick as a felon, dogfighter, thug, etc, the image the Falcons want the public to see? This story is bigger than pro-football.

The image of the NFL, to the non-fan public is what is being shredded.Sounds like he is exactly the face of the Silver and Black...
http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/images/teamlogos/NFL/OAK.gif

[89minitruck]

I got one thing to say to Mr. Vick... hope you enjoy jail, prettyboy. :flipoff2:

[xjluvr]

thats so messed up, he's an idiot

[RebelRescuer]

Don't call us we'll call you!! :D

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=ahmqsHfa9i7s&refer=home

[Gunter]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/
time to start scrubbing thug life outta the NFL:thumbsup:

[Gunter]

My sports role model:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/petrolero/Misc/RicoFootball_small.jpg

Uncle Rico :thumbsup:

"I bet I could throw a football over that mountain if I wanted to. Watch this."LOL

[Brutus]

Let's get together, Budman. I've thought long and hard about what I'd like to do the fawks that badly abused my male pit, Brutus.

I am not your male pit...

[Waifer2112]

I am not your male pit...

LOL!

[DaJudge]

http://c.msn.com/c.gif?NC=1255&NA=1154&PS=73838&PI=7329&DI=305&TP=http%3a%2f%2fmsnbc.msn.com%2f
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/images/MSNBC/msnbc_ban.gif MSNBC.com

Take a bite out of Vick, with a Dog Chew Toy
Company selling plastic depiction of QB, who is charged with dogfighting
MSNBC News Services

Updated: 10:19 a.m. MT Aug 7, 2007

For those looking to vent their anger toward Atlanta Falcons quarterback
Michael Vick and his alleged involvement in a years-long dogfighting
operation, a Florida company has created an opportunity: the Michael Vick
Dog Chew Toy.

However, the Chicago Tribune reported Tuesday that Red Room
Entertainment of Jacksonville, Fla., might have problems concerning the
toy's legality and the company's intentions for making it.

The company, which is selling the toy on its web site, said it will donate
some of the proceeds to the Humane Society.

The Tribune said Red Room might be running afoul of NFL trademark rights,
because Vick is depicted in his Falcons uniform.

The Tribune cited one seller on eBay who has posted more than a dozen
with the notation "Get it now before the NFL shuts production down!" (Click (http://shopping.msn.com/noresults/shp/?text=%22Vick+chew+toy%22)
here for to see ebay search results for toy on MSN Shopping.)

The Tribune also said that a Jacksonville Humane Society spokesperson told
local media that the agency had not heard of Red Room's plans to donate
money from sales of the toy.

"If purchasers of this toy believe they are donating to a Jacksonville
Humane Society program advocating against dogfighting, that is clearly not
the case and would be misleading," Chere Garrard told The Jacksonville
Times-Union.

The company, selling the toy for $10.99, promises that the toy is "so
strong and flexible, it will challenge every breed -- especially the pit bull."

[Waifer2112]

Fawking awesome!!! Why can't I ever think of something like that to make easy $$$$?

[89minitruck]

DUDE IS GOING TO THE HOLE... they are going to put him in SO deep, they will have to pipe in sunlight. He's done...

[Budman]

Let's hope so.

[Big Dave]

The guys on NFL Network are actually praising him for that BULLSHIT apology he just gave. Fawk Michael Vick.

[Yota]

"...my behavior was immature..."

WTF kind of adjective is that?! How about wrong, cruel, illegal, reprehensible, heinous, horrible, stupid, assinine, etc.

But no, he chose "immature."

If he ever plays in the NFL again I'll be PISSSED at the NFL.

[Gunter]

I call BS. A child who has been raised well, by a good parent or good set of parents, does *NOT* "look up to" pro athletes. They look up to those who espouse solid values and morals, and know the difference between good people and bad. That being said, a young athlete may try to emulate a favored player's game. That's a big difference between a Vick fan getting into dog fighting and a John Lynch fan spending all of his hard-earned allowance on charities. How many times have you heard of a kid copying his "hero" by devoting all of his free time to "BIg Brothers" or United Way, or UNICEF? Kids don't copy their favorite athletes. Don't get me wrong: Vick should be put to trial for this, and the league should ban him for life.
dream on!!!
kids grow to a point where you hope you did the right stuff,and hope they took it right.that doesnt mean for a second they wont flop and go do whatever off the deep end.
you crack me up!! nice dr spock parenting there LOL